It's all in the language

[geronimo]

This is in reply to the many Thai bashing threads I see here,

If you are not fluent in Thai, you cannot possibly make any comments about the people and their culture. I know many Thais from all social levels and they are a mixed bunch as one would expect. Some as sharp as a stick, yet others who are not. If you come to live here and do not wish to immerse in the culture, then it will be impossible to integrate. You will always be an outsider. I am not saying "go home", merely pointing out the outcome.

Buddhism is the key to understanding them also, so I recommend reading the teachings.

Oh yes, one other thing. Whenever you start to think "why do they do this"? Remember that it isn't important why, just accept that they do. Things will roll along much smoother.

I have found there to be two types of expats in LOS,

The first (and by far the most) are those that try to change things here. It is futile. Do not waste your time. That doesn't mean you cannot influence an individual, this can be done over time, but forget the nation. It will never happen so you are wasting mental energy. This path leads to insanity and is pointless.

The second group are those that understand Buddhism.

One thing I can recommend,

Make a conscious effort to think of the good, in every situation. It is hard at first, the human mind has been conditioned, some will be drawn to a tiny black spot on a white wall!

It takes some training but after a while it happens automatically. Just this will have a dramatic influence on your life!

Don't believe me? Try it for one month.

PM for more details

[Kaalle]

Why shouldn't you strive to change the things that are clearly dysfunctional and inherently "bad" in every way, especially if they affect you in your daily life? What you do need to focus on is patience though. And of course many times its better to just shrug your shoulders and smile and move on, so to speak. I don't know...in a country like Thailand where so many things have a lot of room for improvement to put it mildly, its just kind of hard to bite your tongue.

[sirineou]

Oh yes, one other thing. Whenever you start to think "why do they do this"? Remember that it isn't important why, just accept that they do. Things will roll along much smoother.

Why is the why not important?

[geronimo]

Why shouldn't you strive to change the things that are clearly dysfunctional and inherently "bad" in every way, especially if they affect you in your daily life? What you do need to focus on is patience though. And of course many times its better to just shrug your shoulders and smile and move on, so to speak. I don't know...in a country like Thailand where so many things have a lot of room for improvement to put it mildly, its just kind of hard to bite your tongue.

I think we need to look at the cost. The cost of trying to change things is a high one to pay, it messes with your mental well being. Biting your tongue works well.

[benalibina]

OP....question for you.

Thai culture.....what is it....define please....according to Geronimo.

Thanks.

[geronimo]

OP....question for you.

Thai culture.....what is it....define please....according to Geronimo.

Thanks.

Living for the moment.

[JLCrab]

OP....question for you.

Thai culture.....what is it....define please....according to Geronimo.

Thanks.

Living for the moment.

Gee -- is it OK if I skip living a few moments and double-up later on?

[Aussieroaming]

"Living for the moment".....sorry geronimo I can't agree because my wife is the exact opposite, she plans for the future and is very anti of people who just want to live for the moment. So is a thai cultural aberration, I think not.

So after your long winded discourse about thai culture and how only those fluent in Thai could understand thai culture you have come up pretty lame in regards to your definition.

But being a great Buddhist you will hopefully see my comments as positive and enlightening.

Humans have a number of senses they can rely on ...sound is only one of them.

[geronimo]

Oh yes, one other thing. Whenever you start to think "why do they do this"? Remember that it isn't important why, just accept that they do. Things will roll along much smoother.

Why is the why not important?

Because we cannot change it.

[JLCrab]

Why do people post live for the moment take it one day at a time be here now?

[NeverSure]

How does all of this connect with "It's all about the language?"

[sdanielmcev]

"If you are not fluent in Thai, you cannot possibly make any comments about the people and their culture. " A bit overzealous, don't you think? If you had started out, "IMHO" I would buy your argument. Certainly language comprehension is valuable, but not necessary.

Paying attention to how words are said will show you what a person means. No matter the language.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=77v_Q0mhbZU

[pigeonjake]

i see a lot of thais that arnt as buddhist as your trying to make out,,

and please i never knock thais, BUT, when i see monks smoking, well that isnt in the buddhist teachings, neither is eating meat,

if you think,, well we the falang, or the west have improved thailand a lot,, many thais now live n houses, have running water, things they never had not to long ago,

i will agree with you on most of what you say, i dont try and change things, if thats the way they want to do it so be it,

and i dont let it get to me now, as in thai time, you will all know what i mean,, the builder says hes coming tomorow, and it could be 3 days, after a few phone calls,

i dont speak thai fluent, i get by, i would like to speak better thai, but only to sit with some of the older folk in the village and listen to there stories,

jake

[Gecko123]

I very much agree with the OPs central point that studying the Thai language and Buddhism can greatly enhance a person's understanding of Thai people, and that many foreigners would be happier here if they made more of an effort in this regard.

I also understand why some posters might take exception to some of the OP's additional comments or the tone of these remarks, but his central point is well-taken.

Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water; there are few amongst us who could not benefit from this gentle reminder.

[Berkshire]

Geronimo, you were making some really good points....until you brought up Buddhism. It's like trying to say America is what it is because of Christianity. Doesn't really do justice.

But I do agree that one really can't understand Thai people or the culture if one can't even speak the language. Again, it's like a foreigner in the USA who doesn't speak a lick of English but insists that he understands how Americans think. No he does not.

[rayongchelsea]

Why shouldn't you strive to change the things that are clearly dysfunctional and inherently "bad" in every way, especially if they affect you in your daily life? What you do need to focus on is patience though. And of course many times its better to just shrug your shoulders and smile and move on, so to speak. I don't know...in a country like Thailand where so many things have a lot of room for improvement to put it mildly, its just kind of hard to bite your tongue.

I think we need to look at the cost. The cost of trying to change things is a high one to pay, it messes with your mental well being. Biting your tongue works well.

So acquiescence is the name of the game.

Language isn't the be all of everything. You are just being arrogant and implying you have been here so long you know everything.

Don't need linguistic skills to see the corruption, the treatment of the poor by the elite, the school system etc..the farcical nature of current events, the court system, the police etc..

I can't stand foreigners who have come here and act like you are implying.

I have a family, it's not about cost it's about self respect.

I would argue that biting your tongue costs more.

Acceptance is ok but not wanting to improve is not.i want a better future for my child and her children. I have more than enough money to ensure they will be " privileged" .

I and my daughter do voluntary work..better than biting your tongue go do something positive..

[Aussieroaming]

Don't get me wrong either I have learnt that my wife always tries to see the positive.

For example if a car flies down the road at twice the speed limit she is more like to say they must have to get somewhere quickly rather than say look at that person driving dangerously. She definitely looks for a positive angle rather than negativity.

I think the power of Buddhism is amazing and my wife is one of the most gentle persons I have ever met.

[geronimo]

Geronimo, you were making some really good points....until you brought up Buddhism. It's like trying to say America is what it is because of Christianity. Doesn't really do justice.

But I do agree that one really can't understand Thai people or the culture if one can't even speak the language. Again, it's like a foreigner in the USA who doesn't speak a lick of English but insists that he understands how Americans think. No he does not.

Buddhism is not about religion, it is a philosophy on how to live your life. IMHO

[thailiketoo]

The Forest tradition of Buddhism which many feel is the way does not translate anything in to English. So, if you go to a Wat and listen to a 2 hour talk and don't understand Thai you would not get to much except for a really good free lunch after the talk.

[sirineou]

Oh yes, one other thing. Whenever you start to think "why do they do this"? Remember that it isn't important why, just accept that they do. Things will roll along much smoother.

Why is the why not important?

Because we cannot change it.

ignorance breeds fear, understanding creates respect

There are many things that we can not change but we need to understand,

Did you not come to your conclusions by asking why?

[TooPoopedToPop]

Good post.

I wonder what percent of the Thai bashers are illiterates who are unable to speak the language fluently.

[rgs2001uk]

Geronimo, you were making some really good points....until you brought up Buddhism. It's like trying to say America is what it is because of Christianity. Doesn't really do justice.

But I do agree that one really can't understand Thai people or the culture if one can't even speak the language. Again, it's like a foreigner in the USA who doesn't speak a lick of English but insists that he understands how Americans think. No he does not.

Buddhism is not about religion, it is a philosophy on how to live your life. IMHO

Oh great prophet please go and disseminate your teachings to the locals, most of whom have no knowledge or understanding of the teachings of Budha.

Please tell me do I gain more merit if I put gold leaf on the statute (an oxymoron if ever I heard one) at Wat Sathorn than I will gain at some middle of nowhere temple?

Will I gain more merit if I put the gold leaf on the front of the statue or the back?

Will extra merit points be gained if people see me doing it or not?

My mrs is what could be termed a "lollard" bhuddist, she belongs to the school of thought, its better to tam boon kon jon than make merit at a temple that already has a pile of money and is nothing more than a glittering temple of excess, or stands as a testament to someones ego.

[rgs2001uk]

Good post.

I wonder what percent of the Thai bashers are illiterates who are unable to speak the language fluently.

Please define fluency, I speak read and write the language, but accept I will never be fluent.

Too be honest dont think I have ever yet met a fluent farang speaker.

My limitations on the language include, religious talk (as an atheist religion is no concern of mine) legal, medical and engineering terms, Thai Law is another aspect of the language I am not fluent in, why should I be?

[rgs2001uk]

Oh great prophet, please tell me how I can communicate with, talking snakes and magic trees to get my winning lottery numbers.

A girl up my way asked me to come and look at some flowers the other week and asked me if I could see the numbers, the dust had settled on the flowers and she thought it was the winning lottery numbers.

I told her to wait for ten minutes, (until the sun had changed direction) then told her to look again, she couldnt see anything, white mans magic some cultures call it.

[sustento]

The Forest tradition of Buddhism which many feel is the way does not translate anything in to English. So, if you go to a Wat and listen to a 2 hour talk and don't understand Thai you would not get to much except for a really good free lunch after the talk.

http://www.ajahnchah.org/

[inzman]

Op you are a putz. You don't know Buddhism if you think Thais are true Buddhists. They aren't. They only worship to wish for wealth. The monks have benzs and fly in helicopters. I know a guy who buys his drugs from the temple. Monks collect money. That's not the tenets of Buddhism. Get off your high horse. Sounds like your bring a puppet for the thai girl. I've never met a thai who knew the truth of being a Buddhist.

[AYJAYDEE]

i see a lot of thais that arnt as buddhist as your trying to make out,,

and please i never knock thais, BUT, when i see monks smoking, well that isnt in the buddhist teachings, neither is eating meat,

if you think,, well we the falang, or the west have improved thailand a lot,, many thais now live n houses, have running water, things they never had not to long ago,

i will agree with you on most of what you say, i dont try and change things, if thats the way they want to do it so be it,

and i dont let it get to me now, as in thai time, you will all know what i mean,, the builder says hes coming tomorow, and it could be 3 days, after a few phone calls,

i dont speak thai fluent, i get by, i would like to speak better thai, but only to sit with some of the older folk in the village and listen to there stories,

jake

does the vinaya pitaka forbid smoking and eating meat? and it wasnt the farang expats that gave thais houses and running water.

[benalibina]

i see a lot of thais that arnt as buddhist as your trying to make out,,

and please i never knock thais, BUT, when i see monks smoking, well that isnt in the buddhist teachings, neither is eating meat,

if you think,, well we the falang, or the west have improved thailand a lot,, many thais now live n houses, have running water, things they never had not to long ago,

i will agree with you on most of what you say, i dont try and change things, if thats the way they want to do it so be it,

and i dont let it get to me now, as in thai time, you will all know what i mean,, the builder says hes coming tomorow, and it could be 3 days, after a few phone calls,

i dont speak thai fluent, i get by, i would like to speak better thai, but only to sit with some of the older folk in the village and listen to there stories,

jake

does the vinaya pitaka forbid smoking and eating meat? and it wasnt the farang expats that gave thais houses and running water.

Yes they have built houses and you know that. The expatlot has done more good than bad.

Or do you want to say that they demolished houses and thus are responsible for a decreasing wealth in the villages?

[AYJAYDEE]

i see a lot of thais that arnt as buddhist as your trying to make out,,

and please i never knock thais, BUT, when i see monks smoking, well that isnt in the buddhist teachings, neither is eating meat,

if you think,, well we the falang, or the west have improved thailand a lot,, many thais now live n houses, have running water, things they never had not to long ago,

i will agree with you on most of what you say, i dont try and change things, if thats the way they want to do it so be it,

and i dont let it get to me now, as in thai time, you will all know what i mean,, the builder says hes coming tomorow, and it could be 3 days, after a few phone calls,

i dont speak thai fluent, i get by, i would like to speak better thai, but only to sit with some of the older folk in the village and listen to there stories,

jake

does the vinaya pitaka forbid smoking and eating meat? and it wasnt the farang expats that gave thais houses and running water.

Yes they have built houses and you know that. The expatlot has done more good than bad.

Or do you want to say that they demolished houses and thus are responsible for a decreasing wealth in the villages?

so theyve built houses? that doesnt mean thailand wouldnt have had houses and running water without farangs.

[Berkshire]

Op you are a putz. You don't know Buddhism if you think Thais are true Buddhists. They aren't. They only worship to wish for wealth. The monks have benzs and fly in helicopters. I know a guy who buys his drugs from the temple. Monks collect money. That's not the tenets of Buddhism. Get off your high horse. Sounds like your bring a puppet for the thai girl. I've never met a thai who knew the truth of being a Buddhist.

Mr. Gecko, if you're out there, this is exactly what I was talking about. (excuse me inzman, but the Gecko dude and I were discussing this very thing)