Thai justice in spotlight over cracks in Koh Tao case

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Thai justice in spotlight over cracks in Koh Tao case
The Nation

International suspicion that the wrong men are being prosecuted could tarnish Thailand's image and further damage tourism

BANGKOK: -- Friday's arrest of two suspects in connection with the murder of tourists on Koh Tao came after mounting public pressure on the police to bring justice to the victims and their families through a fair and thorough investigation. More than two weeks after the killing of the two British tourists, the police announced that a pair of Myanmar migrant workers had confessed to the crime and that their DNA matched that found on the female victim, Hannah Witheridge.

It seemed like progress had finally been made, but a new development has raised concerns about the investigation and the level of justice afforded to the accused.

The case is highly sensitive for Thailand. The double murder has rocked the Kingdom's image as a beach paradise. The police have worked under pressure from Day 1, every step of the case closely scrutinised by the public as well as the international media.

The fact that illegal migrants from Myanmar have been charged also puts Thai-Myanmar labour relations back under the spotlight.

Such high-profile cases always attract sceptical observers. Police have felt obliged to insist that there are no scapegoats, but plenty of questions have been raised. "Thai authorities frequently accuse migrants from Myanmar and Cambodia of committing crimes in the Kingdom, where they make up a vast, poorly paid and low-status workforce," notes the British newspaper the Daily Telegraph.

There have been apparent missteps in the investigation as well as unconvincing findings. One of the more obvious inconsistencies concerns the police claim that Witheridge's mobile phone was eventually discovered near the home of one of the suspects, when in fact her friend had given it to police the day after the murders.

We all want to see justice served for the victims and families but, for that to happen, the police must respect the rights of the suspects, and the suspects must then be given a fair trial. Foreign news outlets and rights groups have said the suspects lack proper legal representation. There are doubts about the methods used by the police in their interrogation. An official from the Labour Rights Network for Myanmar migrant workers said three suspects were "tortured, including having hot water poured on them and being beaten".

Police were expected to forward their investigation report to the public prosecutor today, even as concern grows that a flawed case is moving toward completion. Myanmar's Labour Ministry has said it will help the suspects after its own investigation identified cause for suspicion. The National Commission for Human Rights has established a hotline and an email contact address to gather further testimony, with confidentiality guaranteed.

The handling of the Koh Tao murder case requires transparency at every step. If justice is to be served, it must be extended to the suspects. There must be a fair trial and the final verdict must be beyond reasonable doubt. Thailand cannot afford further missteps in this case. Too many parties have already passed judgement. The justice system must now deliver a spotless verdict.

Most worrying of all, prosecuting the wrong men would mean that the culprits are still at large and the island remains unsafe. Any suspicion that justice has been hurried would damage tourism for years to come.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thai-justice-in-spotlight-over-cracks-in-Koh-Tao-c-30244986.html


-- The Nation 2014-10-08

[eeworldwide]

And So? What is going to be done about it?

[hanuman2543]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

A modern police force can not use boiling water, beatings and electric shocks as interrogation tools, shame on you RTP.

[NongKhaiKid]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

I hope i'm wrong but i don't see this going to trial. I suspect there will be a Guilty plea possibly on ' advice ' they will be spared to death penalty which means the witnesses and evidence will never be tested in court as there seems more than enough room for a half decent defence lawyer to plead a very good case and raise substantial reasonable doubt..

[englishoak]

The Nation could demand an open public investigation into the handling of this case by the police since the very beginning, name and shame, that would be a start.

[hanuman2543]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

I hope i'm wrong but i don't see this going to trial. I suspect there will be a Guilty plea possibly on ' advice ' they will be spared to death penalty which means the witnesses and evidence will never be tested in court as there seems more than enough room for a half decent defence lawyer to plead a very good case and raise substantial reasonable doubt..

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends as a "double suicide". Face saved and no more "stupid" questions.

[coma]

It would seem that if they get a crafty lawyer, and can prove that they where tortured, along this the circus styled police investigation they could well be acquitted.

[Preman]

The only way to really voice your frustration, .... is not on this forum.

Like a few other people have said.... go to the people who are supposedly paid to represent justice.

If they do not do it... use your vote to get them out.

That includes all British, Australian, USA Embassy appointees and representatives.

Use your energy to kick their arse where it hurts. There jobs.

Use your energy to make web sites and make it clear that such injustice is not only unbelievable.... but will not be tolerated.

Make web sites to boycott this BS.

[Fiddlesticks]

What did you expect????

From the outset, this case seems to be a microcosm of the legal system here in Thailand. Were people really expecting a 'professional' investigation free of the taint of corruption, bias, and patronage? Come now, this simply is not the Thai way. Thailand is evolving and will one day emerge from the shadows of its third-world character but not for some time yet. Foreigners coming to Thailand for tourism or to live should not expect standards of law enforcement and justice that are common to developed nations. Living in or visiting Thailand must entail acceptance of third-world justice just as one would expect from the undeveloped countries in Africa or elsewhere in Asia. If one can not accept these conditions, then it is best to avoid Thailand and restrict oneself to visiting only the developed counties such as Europe, America, Singapore, etc.

[Preman]

To all British Subjects......

Send emails to you local MP.

Send emails to the PM.

Put them all on notice.

Send emails expressing total disgust for the words of the British Ambassador here in Thailand.

Tell them all... that unless they get up off their fat <deleted>... they are not only going to lose YOUR VOTE... but every one you know and what ever you can muster on the social media.

These are the deaths of two British Subjects.

The British Government have to step in when the Thais do what they normally do. LIE.

I hope that there are a few people out there who read this ... that actually do something. Who have the guts!

[Preman]

What did you expect????

From the outset, this case seems to be a microcosm of the legal system here in Thailand. Were people really expecting a 'professional' investigation free of the taint of corruption, bias, and patronage? Come now, this simply is not the Thai way. Thailand is evolving and will one day emerge from the shadows of its third-world character but not for some time yet. Foreigners coming to Thailand for tourism or to live should not expect standards of law enforcement and justice that are common to developed nations. Living in or visiting Thailand must entail acceptance of third-world justice just as one would expect from the undeveloped countries in Africa or elsewhere in Asia. If one can not accept these conditions, then it is best to avoid Thailand and restrict oneself to visiting only the developed counties such as Europe, America, Singapore, etc.

Here here!

But, you are slightly flawed good Sir. The difference between law enforcement / corruption between 'developing countries' and our so called advanced nations is what?

One does not have the IQ to even hide lies - whilst the other has its tentacles into brainwashing society through the media.

Thailand needs to send some of its crew over to the west to get educated into how to bullshit better and get people to believe it better.

Other than that, what is Thailand doing so different to our own stinking excuses for politicians?

Yes, this is not a political forum. But, people have died (again) and politicians who could do something.... do nothing.

I say ..... nail them. Let us all STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING.

DO NOT LET THE THAI GOVERNMENT GET AWAY WITH THIS MURDER.

THE THAI LEADER GOES TO THE TOILET EVERY DAY.

HE IS ALSO ANSWERABLE TO THE HIGHER SOURCE.

[bongoz]

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

Maybe time for a new coup ... the Navy is looking good

[ATF]

Well we'll soon see the tourist figures for this year. Wouldn't be surprised if they're down 40-50% because visa runners have been taken out of the equation also.

Edited October 8, 2014 by ATF

[Tatsujin]

Interesting to note that they haven't mentioned the DNA testing in Singapore at all recently . . . the latest today from other sources:

" . . . They also verified DNA samples taken from Witheridge's body at Chiang Mai University and Chulalongkorn universities . . . "

[Preman]

All DNA tests and verifications should be listed.

Is Chiang Mai University a credible source?

At this stage of the circus, - the only thing that would satisfy all ... is a very credible, neutral investigation body to verify the evidence.

If the Thai Government had such REAL evidence... it would seek such verification... just to show the outside world that it had good and honorable character.

But again, - it cannot or will not.

Thailand. This time - you may lose your tourism $$$$$ .

If you are so arrogant ... then so be it.

[Arkady]

Yo

[bluebluewater]

I would give a lot if the British state dept would publically request that it would like to have its Scotland Yard independently verify all the evidence in this case in order to assure its many citizens who live or travel as tourists to Thailand (and all the world) that the case is solid and that the actual killers have been caught.

But I know it won't happen . . . Nor would Thailand allow it to happen.

Failing that they need to put the OJ "Dream Team" back together (may have to dig some up) and let them defend this in open court!

Cheers

[BoristheBlade]

It’s time for the General to step up to the plate.

If he genuinely wants to make Thailand a better place, what better way to start than with this tragic situation.in Koh Tao.

Life at times throws you great opportunities, this could be his. One command from the General could send the scum of Koa Tao into jail and more importantly, send a message to the corrupt and mafia figures in Thailand....your time is up and you’re going down! Also put a stop to the nonsense that is "face". Because if he has the guts to admit this is a set up, a hell of a lot of senior figures in Thailand are going to loose face.

The ordinary citizens of this country would rejoice and be able to live in a free and fair country,

What a legacy for the General and a fitting way to respect the victims of this hideous crime.

Edited October 8, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[soalbundy]

All DNA tests and verifications should be listed.

Is Chiang Mai University a credible source?

At this stage of the circus, - the only thing that would satisfy all ... is a very credible, neutral investigation body to verify the evidence.

If the Thai Government had such REAL evidence... it would seek such verification... just to show the outside world that it had good and honorable character.

But again, - it cannot or will not.

Thailand. This time - you may lose your tourism $$$$$ .

If you are so arrogant ... then so be it.

They wont lose anything,tourists are a resilient bunch with short memories,in one month all will be forgotten

[BoristheBlade]

The biggest fear I have is that international pressure is getting bigger by the minute, far too much for the Thai authorities.

I fear for the safety of the accused, it would be very convenient for the said authority’s to find the accused deceased in their cells.

It’s time for the General to step up to the plate.

If he genuinely wants to make Thailand a better place, what better way to start than with this tragic situation.in Koh Tao.

Life at times throws you great opportunities, this could be his. One command from the General could send the scum of Koa Tao into jail and more importantly, send a message to the corrupt and mafia figures in Thailand....your time is up and you’re going down! Also put a stop to the nonsense that is "face". Because if he has the guts to admit this is a set up, a hell of a lot of senior figures in Thailand are going to loose face.

The ordinary citizens of this country would rejoice and be able to live in a free and fair country,

What a legacy for the General and a fitting way to respect the victims of this hideous crime.

Good words. Look deeper at why it is not happening!!!

It seems that the big boss makes changes where there is no vested interest.

Looks like there is a big vested interest on that island????

Maybe?

Does not look good for the big boss - does it? Arresting to two boys from Mynamar.

Expecting the world to believe the BS. What only two young boys can do this?

Big Boss - you are dumb and stupid. You should know better.

[bangkokheat]

It would seem that if they get a crafty lawyer, and can prove that they where tortured, along this the circus styled police investigation they could well be acquitted.

a thai lawyer of course right?

[jaltsc]

A modern police force can not use boiling water, beatings and electric shocks as interrogation tools, shame on you RTP.

I would tend to believe that police forces in many western nations use similar interrogation methods. However, they do so in more secret settings and usually do not use methods which leave physical after-signs of torture, or parade their victims out in front of the public right after being tortured. In those countries there are legislatures, free press and a public to answer to. So, they are forced to be discreet. Also, there are strict requirements for the chain of evidence. So, as a rule (although not in every case) it is a lot more difficult to fabricate, misinterpret or use flimsy evidence.

Here is appears if the suspects are sitting at a table and a number of police officials are pointing at them, they are guilty, and how their confessions were obtained has not been questioned in the past. As long as someone has been apprehended, confessed, tried and punished, then justice has been served. Even if they are not the real perpetrators of the crimes.

Edited October 8, 2014 by jaltsc

[BlackJack]

this would probably never get to trial in the west as there are to many inconsistancies and the chain of evidence and the evidence itself is questionable

but good luck fella's as you now have a team of lawyers and your own Embassy representing you

the Scotsman that fled the Island holds the key to all this

[Ulic]

I thought they had some of the original samples tested in Singapore. If so I would like the suspects DNA to be tested

and checked against the original samples. Why would police not do this to put an end to the rampant speculation.

If they are telling the truth of course.

[noitom]

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The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

Cause "damage?" Do you mean the Thais wouldn't be able to CTAs? What sort of damage do you mean? It is a bigger issue to determine who in fact is really guilty. We shouldn't be concerned about Thais being in "hot water" at the local level. I think we should be concerned with the general and his leaders showing the Thais that they can chart the right course and do the right thing here for law and order and due process for the benefit of the Thai people and Thailand.

[spidermike007]

Some of my recent posts on this travesty, which seem as relevant as ever:

What is the real moral to this story? Well, one of them is that we are not going to see any meaningful change, to the fabric of Thai society. Many of us were incredibly hopeful that we would see some positive changes. And I think it is quite possible that Prayuth, and his top guys have their hearts in the right places, and want to see this change take place. Many expats, and many Thais really want to see progress, and want to see this country moving forward into this century. Yes, we will see some land crimes solved, and some illegal beach vendors removed. But, in terms of dealing with the massive corruption issues, the kind of power guys like the headman of Koh Tao have, and their ability to abuse that power, and positive changes at an institutional level, and at a national level, where it really counts, many of us now doubt it will happen. This case proves, that many are still above the law, and even the Army cannot touch them. That is the devastating moral to this story. A very disappointing outcome indeed.

This is simply a disinformation campaign, aimed at the ignorant. They have found the killer or killers. They have made a conscious decision not to charge him. They know who he is. They have CCTV footage of him following the victims out of the bar. They have eyewitness accounts of the incident that provoked this. The headman is simply too rich, too powerful, and nobody feels compelled to rock that boat, including the Army. It is very disappointing to alot of people here in Thailand and worldwide, to find that the Army does not really want to rock the boat, and upset the status quo. Very disappointing. Very disconcerting. A real shame. Some things never change, I guess. Looks like that crime infested, drug infested island is going to stay the same forever. Little progress there. Nobody in power wants to see change. It is going to take a very powerful force in Bangkok, if anything there is ever going to change.

[hanuman2543]

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The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

Cause "damage?" Do you mean the Thais wouldn't be able to CTAs? What sort of damage do you mean? It is a bigger issue to determine who in fact is really guilty. We shouldn't be concerned about Thais being in "hot water" at the local level. I think we should be concerned with the general and his leaders showing the Thais that they can chart the right course and do the right thing here for law and order and due process for the benefit of the Thai people and Thailand.

The damage I mean is that they will loose all credibility in the eyes of foreign governments and the international press and because of this an independent investigation will never be allowed. See my 2nd post about "suicides" then you know what I mean.

Edited October 8, 2014 by hanuman2543

[Dogmatix]

A modern police force can not use boiling water, beatings and electric shocks as interrogation tools, shame on you RTP.

But injections of rohypnol to facilitate confessions and pliant behaviour at police re-enactments, while blurring memories of 'safe house' interrogation sessions, are part of the legitimate hi-tech crime busting arsenal of every modern police force.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Dogmatix

[maximillian]

What did you expect????

From the outset, this case seems to be a microcosm of the legal system here in Thailand. Were people really expecting a 'professional' investigation free of the taint of corruption, bias, and patronage? Come now, this simply is not the Thai way. Thailand is evolving and will one day emerge from the shadows of its third-world character but not for some time yet. Foreigners coming to Thailand for tourism or to live should not expect standards of law enforcement and justice that are common to developed nations. Living in or visiting Thailand must entail acceptance of third-world justice just as one would expect from the undeveloped countries in Africa or elsewhere in Asia. If one can not accept these conditions, then it is best to avoid Thailand and restrict oneself to visiting only the developed counties such as Europe, America, Singapore, etc.

8

Had I been aware of what I know NOW about Thailand, I wouldn't have settled down here. Now it is too late to move back to Europe as I am

emotionally stuck here. Cannot leave my wife and her two daughters.

But I will do what I can to warn others who'd like to come to Thailand as tourists or to settle down here.

Let's hope justice will prevail.