UK MPs to vote on recognising Palestine as a state

[chuckd]

You have certainly missed (or choose to ignore?) the many times this has been posted on TV!

Current status of the Charter

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor, senior adviser to the Carter Center, that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons".[91] Hamas do not use the Charter on their website and prefer to use their election manifesto to put forth their agenda.[92][93] Pastor states that those who quote the charter rather than more recent Hamas statements may be using the Charter as an excuse to ignore Hamas.[91]

British diplomat and former British ambassador to the United Nations Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006".[94] Mohammed Nimer of American University comments on the Charter, "It's a tract meant to mobilize support and it should be amended.... It projects anger, not vision."[95] Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh, has questioned the use of the charter by Israel and its supporters to brand Hamas as a fundamentalist, terrorist, racist, anti-Semitic organization and claims that they have taken parts of the charter out of context for propaganda purposes. He claims that they dwell on the charter and ignore that Hamas has changed its views with time.[96]

So Khaled Meshaal "indicated" that Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist?

Do you believe everything you read in Wikipedia?

Yeah, well, neither do I.

When they officially amend their charter to recognize Israel's right to exist it will have meaning. Until then, it is only so much more Hamas rhetoric, filled with lies and propaganda.

PS: I didn't miss it. The charter has never been changed.

[dr_lucas]

You have certainly missed (or choose to ignore?) the many times this has been posted on TV!

Current status of the Charter

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor, senior adviser to the Carter Center, that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons".[91] Hamas do not use the Charter on their website and prefer to use their election manifesto to put forth their agenda.[92][93] Pastor states that those who quote the charter rather than more recent Hamas statements may be using the Charter as an excuse to ignore Hamas.[91]

British diplomat and former British ambassador to the United Nations Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006".[94] Mohammed Nimer of American University comments on the Charter, "It's a tract meant to mobilize support and it should be amended.... It projects anger, not vision."[95] Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh, has questioned the use of the charter by Israel and its supporters to brand Hamas as a fundamentalist, terrorist, racist, anti-Semitic organization and claims that they have taken parts of the charter out of context for propaganda purposes. He claims that they dwell on the charter and ignore that Hamas has changed its views with time.[96]

Seems like you are the one missing or choosing to ignore the facts.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744382-thousands-march-for-gaza-in-london-clashes-in-paris-over-israeli-onslaught/?view=findpost&p=8221372

[Bwanatickey]

Why are you shouting at me? Just putting up an article representing alternate views & commented most people will not concur.

Yes Israeli government does have justifable security concerns. Suggest you cool down, no need for personalised diatribes that seem to be de rigueur on TV & acheive nothing.

I am not shouting. I am not Israeli so the Israeli government is not my government. If you don't have anything of substance to reply to my post, that's fine. I think the article I posted while it is focused on the Israel demonization and often antisemitic motivations of the BDS movement can also be applied in large measure to the unilateral recognition of Palestine movement which disregards the major political problem of most Palestinians NOT accepting the very existence of Israel.

So both sides deny the existence of each other, what sort of logic is that, they keep killing each other in the real world.

[Jingthing]

So both sides deny the existence of each other, what sort of logic is that, they keep killing each other in the real world.

That's the kind of cute, simplistic question I would expect from a small child who didn't have knowledge of the actual historical issues behind the conflict (on both sides).

[7by7]

BBC exclusive interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal; first broadcast 25/7/14

Note that he says that the Palestinian people have a right to a state on the West bank and Gaza.

Not "from the river to the sea."

Will Hamas recognize Israel as a Jewish state?

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal skirted a question of whether his group would ever recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, saying only that Palestinians would make that decision once they had a state of their own with no Israeli presence.

"When we have a Palestinian state then the Palestinian state will decide on its policies. You cannot actually ask me about the future,"

Like with Abbas, the question is not whether to recognise Israel as a state per se; but Netanyahu's insistence on the Palestinians accepting Israel as a Jewish state and all that implies with regard to the rights of non Jews.

We all know that Israeli Muslims in both Israel proper and the occupied territories are second class citizens with far fewer rights than Israeli Jews.

However, on thing he did make clear was that while he is willing to coexist with all, Muslims, Jews, Christians etc., he will not recognise Israel while Israel continues to occupy Palestinian lands.

Take that as you will.

[chuckd]

What Meshaal says is immaterial.

If Meshaal is electrocuted by his swimming pool in Qatar, he will be replaced. The words of a dead man have no meaning to Hamas.

The ruling document is their charter and what it says.

When their charter is changed, send up a flag and let us know.

[Jingthing]

It was just a case of softened spin for the internal press. The true intentions of Hamas are clear and well established.

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, in a separate interview, said Meshaal's response to questions about whether Hamas could coexist with Israel "sounded like double talk to me."

"But the bottom line is they are seeing each other's problems from a completely negative side and what you need to do in diplomacy is at least try to put yourselves into the other person's shoes and they are definitely not doing that," Albright said. "Hamas is definitely trying to persuade its population that everything is the fault of Israel which I think is unfair."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-hamas-recognize-israel-as-a-jewish-state/

[7by7]

Albright's comment "But the bottom line is they are seeing each other's problems from a completely negative side and what you need to do in diplomacy is at least try to put yourselves into the other person's shoes and they are definitely not doing that," applies equally to Israel; as is clear to all who understand basic English and the meaning of the word 'each.'

Chuckd and Jingthing; we get it.

Like Netanyahu you don't want a two state solution. You want the total subjugation of the Palestinian people into a Greater Israel where they will be treated to the same second class citizenship and deprivation of rights as the current Arab Israeli 'citizens' are.

So any olive branches, even ambiguous ones, offered by Hamas or any other Palestinian group will be derided and ignored.

The world is watching, and Israel is losing more and more support and sympathy; support and sympathy which is being transferred to the Palestinians.

At one time Israel were seen as the good guys; the lone democracy in the region standing up to the bigger bullies surrounding them. But Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and illegal occupation of Palestinian land means it is now Israel which most of the world sees as the bullies and aggressors.

[Jingthing]

I fully understood the word each.

Dude, not everyone who supports the existence of Israel and her right to defend herself against genocidal terrorists thinks exactly the same way.

I have said many many times that I agree currently Israeli leaders are not sincere about wanting a two state solution.

They have their REASONS for that though and the reasons aren't as black and white as Israel demonizers suggest.

That doesn't mean that I personally don't support a two state solution -- just observing reality ... that Israel just that isn't into that path.

More than one thing can be true.

It can be true Hamas has genocidal intentions and it can ALSO be true that Israel has mostly given up on a two state solution.

I think they are both true.

These are complex issues at hand.

There are steps that BOTH sides could take to increase the odds of a two state solution, and both sides are guilty of not doing enough, and no the unilateral tactic is not the answer.

BTW, the treatment of Arab Israelis is pretty darned good and compares well to Arabs in most majority Arab nations, especially for the gay ones!

To suggest the legal status of Arab Israelis is in any way equivalent to West Bank/Gaza Arabs is just a big lie.

Also we are well aware that the Palestinian cause has won some major international PR victories lately ... that's important to them but people's perceptions don't necessarily reflect the truth, and as Albright says, there are two sides, and not ONLY one side is to blame for this seemingly endless mess.

To be clear, I have never ever denied that Palestinians have legitimate grievances ...

That said, I don't have the answer. To those who say the two state solution is forever dead, I think there is good chance they are right. I hope they are wrong though. To those who say, how about one big state with a Jewish minority, I say forget about that, that just can't work,

Edited October 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[7by7]

You may understand the meaning of the word 'each' but certainly presented the quote in a way to suggest she was only criticising Hamas and not Israel as well. I'm glad to see you have now changed that and agree she was criticising both sides.

You keep on about the genocidal intentions of Hamas; what genocidal intentions?

Even the Hamas charter makes no mention of genocide; on the contrary:

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement

......Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security.

Now, you, and indeed I, may not agree with much in the charter, if anything. But you cannot deny that there is absolutely no mention of genocide whatsoever.

Arab rights in Israel? Discriminatory Laws in Israel

There are more than 50 Israeli laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life, including their rights to political participation, access to land, education, state budget resources, and criminal procedures. Some of the laws also violate the rights of Palestinians living in the 1967 OPT and Palestinian refugees.

That other countries have equally bad or worse human rights records is no excuse for this; especially as Israel claims to be a democracy!

The two state solution is only dead because Israel wont accept it. The PLO did 20 years ago, and even Hamas now do so.

So why, in your opinion, wont Israel?

[Bwanatickey]

Because there is two minds in a follower of the Jewish faith.

Mind one, Jewish believers applaud the sterling work of Helen Suzman , of a Lithuanian background, who was an anti apartheid activist in South Africa.

The good Jew, awash with human rights awards.

Mind two, we don't want the same for Israel, the ANC takeover of power.

[chuckd]

Albright's comment "But the bottom line is they are seeing each other's problems from a completely negative side and what you need to do in diplomacy is at least try to put yourselves into the other person's shoes and they are definitely not doing that," applies equally to Israel; as is clear to all who understand basic English and the meaning of the word 'each.'

Chuckd and Jingthing; we get it.

Like Netanyahu you don't want a two state solution. You want the total subjugation of the Palestinian people into a Greater Israel where they will be treated to the same second class citizenship and deprivation of rights as the current Arab Israeli 'citizens' are.

So any olive branches, even ambiguous ones, offered by Hamas or any other Palestinian group will be derided and ignored.

The world is watching, and Israel is losing more and more support and sympathy; support and sympathy which is being transferred to the Palestinians.

At one time Israel were seen as the good guys; the lone democracy in the region standing up to the bigger bullies surrounding them. But Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and illegal occupation of Palestinian land means it is now Israel which most of the world sees as the bullies and aggressors.

When I make a statement that you seem to think I made, let me know.

Until then I would appreciate it if you wouldn't play that old tired game of putting words in my mouth.

You don't get it at all.

[dr_lucas]

BBC exclusive interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal; first broadcast 25/7/14

Note that he says that the Palestinian people have a right to a state on the West bank and Gaza.

Not "from the river to the sea."

Will Hamas recognize Israel as a Jewish state?

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal skirted a question of whether his group would ever recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, saying only that Palestinians would make that decision once they had a state of their own with no Israeli presence.

"When we have a Palestinian state then the Palestinian state will decide on its policies. You cannot actually ask me about the future,"

Like with Abbas, the question is not whether to recognise Israel as a state per se; but Netanyahu's insistence on the Palestinians accepting Israel as a Jewish state and all that implies with regard to the rights of non Jews.

We all know that Israeli Muslims in both Israel proper and the occupied territories are second class citizens with far fewer rights than Israeli Jews.

However, on thing he did make clear was that while he is willing to coexist with all, Muslims, Jews, Christians etc., he will not recognise Israel while Israel continues to occupy Palestinian lands.

Take that as you will.

My bold above.

What Khaled Mashaal says to the foreign media only shows he is wise, not honest. That's something that indeed changed with Hamas, they became much better (cunning) speakers. When they speak to western media they say exactly what the media want to hear.

Actions, however, speak louder than words, and Hamas' hostile actions did not improve one bit, only gotten worse, within their limits (ie. Because of the defense barrier a lot of terror attacks, such as suicide bombings are being blocked and thanks to Israel's intelligence a lot of other known and unpublished terror related actions are tackled).

Besides, Mashaal is the political leader of Hamas, but the military wing's (Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades) leader Mohammed Deif, who most Palestinians see as the real person in charge, speaks much more clearly on their plans...

As for what "we all know".

Again, this is what you think you know, which is - incorrect.

a) Israeli-Arabs (Muslims, Christians, Bedouins, Druze etc.) are by no means second class citizens. They are full rights citizens and all the Israeli laws apply to them as they apply to all Jewish citizens.

2) Muslims (or Christians, Bedouin etc.) living in the occupied territories are not Israeli citizens at all. There are no "Israeli-Muslims" living in the occupied territories AFAIK.

[Jingthing]

Because there is two minds in a follower of the Jewish faith.

Mind one, Jewish believers applaud the sterling work of Helen Suzman , of a Lithuanian background, who was an anti apartheid activist in South Africa.

The good Jew, awash with human rights awards.

Mind two, we don't want the same for Israel, the ANC takeover of power.

Typical big lie of Israel demonization to suggest that the historical situation in South Africa is equivalent to the historical situation in Israel. BTW, 100 Jews you get 100 opinions ...

[Jingthing]

Again, there are (at least) two sides to this. While I and I think most honest observers would acknowledge that currently Israel isn't really serious about two state solution, it goes both ways:

A clear majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip oppose a two-state solution to end their struggle with Israel, according to a poll released on Wednesday.

Sixty percent of those polled, including 55% in the West Bank and 68% in Gaza, reject permanently accepting Israel’s existence and instead suggest their leaders “work toward reclaiming all of historic Palestine, from the river to the sea.”

Two-thirds of those polled support continued “resistance” against the Jewish state. Consequentially, those who say they support a two-state solution view such a move as “part of a ‘program of stages’ to liberate all of historic Palestine later.”

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Majority-of-Palestinians-now-oppose-two-state-solution-new-poll-finds-360489

If you actually believe the current Palestinian tactic to seek UNILATERAL recognition of Palestine actually means they are resolved to accepting a real and PERMANENT two state solution, two states with clear borders living side by side in peace, rather than a stepping stone to continued war of "liberation" against Israel, I've got a bridge to sell you. Because people who HONESTLY look at this, seeing both sides, can see clearly what the focus of the Palestinian movement is, and that is the END OF ISRAEL.

That is why I see the Palestinian movement (River to the sea, blah, blah, blah) as having real and clear genocidal intent ... because to win this war of liberation that has such solid support there, that would mean genocide of perhaps millions of Jews. I am not saying they currently have the capability to win this ... happily they don't.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[simple1]

It is not surprising polls conclude the majority desire the removal of the State of Israel after the recent conflict, no political progression and the destruction (purely for punishment?) of civilian infrastructure. It is conjecture, but recognition of ‘Palestine’ by the Israelis, over time, should lead to a softening of attitudes by the general population. The rebuilding of the economy, housing and infrastructure would influence attitudes; on the downside the regime is very corrupt. Hopefully the corruption will fuel resentment against Hamas and bring about change in political leadership when elections are re-scheduled.

There are claims that 50 existing laws in Israel discriminate against Arabs, the response is this is not so, yet do not recall any counter ‘proving’ it is an erroneous claim. I would be interested in informed members’ opinion on the article below concerning recently enacted legislation.

New law dividing Christian, Muslim Arabs legalizes inequality

http://972mag.com/new-law-seeks-to-divide-christian-muslim-arabs/87705/

Edited October 18, 2014 by simple1

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Jingthing]

It is not surprising polls conclude the majority desire the removal of the State of Israel after the recent conflict, no political progression and the destruction (purely for punishment?) of civilian infrastructure. It is conjecture, but recognition of ‘Palestine’ by the Israelis, over time, should lead to a softening of attitudes by the general population. The rebuilding of the economy, housing and infrastructure would influence attitudes; on the downside the regime is very corrupt. Hopefully the corruption will fuel resentment against Hamas and bring about change in political leadership when elections are re-scheduled.

There are claims that 50 existing laws in Israel discriminate against Arabs, the response is this is not so, yet do not recall any counter ‘proving’ it is an erroneous claim. I would be interested in informed members’ opinion on the article below concerning recently enacted legislation.

New law dividing Christian, Muslim Arabs legalizes inequality

http://972mag.com/new-law-seeks-to-divide-christian-muslim-arabs/87705/

Yeah, sure thing, mate.

The survey was done June 15 - 17, 2014.

Project Cast Lead started July 8.

In case that wasn't clear, the survey was done BEFORE the recent flare up.

I think it's up to the Jews of Israel to decide about the validity of your optimistic so called conjecture. It's easy for an outsider to suggest they should risk it all and hope for the best from a people showing such opinions as shown in the survey. Any reasonable person can understand reluctance to trust (again from EITHER side).

On the legal situation of Arab Israel citizens, that's really off topic so I won't further comment nor am an expert on it. Except to say democracies are not perfect ... look at the situation of black people in the USA even with a black president, there remain major civil rights issues. So of course things are far from perfect for the Arab Israeli citizens. I don't see how that lack of perfection justifies the overall Palestinian "river to the sea" thing though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict

[simple1]

OK, didn't research the timing of the poll, though, in my opinion, the same issues apply.

Perhaps you are hair splitting on my use of the word 'conjecture' - an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

Don't know what the ongoing cost is for Israeli society, both economically and for morale with the current impasse. Doesn't Israeli society have the fortitude to try once again, rather than leaving matters in situ? Has it emerged if there are any ongoing back door negotiations?

Question for the Mods…

Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel.

[chuckd]

OK, didn't research the timing of the poll, though, in my opinion, the same issues apply.

Perhaps you are hair splitting on my use of the word 'conjecture' - an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

Don't know what the ongoing cost is for Israeli society, both economically and for morale with the current impasse. Doesn't Israeli society have the fortitude to try once again, rather than leaving matters in situ? Has it emerged if there are any ongoing back door negotiations?

Question for the Mods…

Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel.

"Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel."

What additional rights do you feel the Palestinians should be given in light of this most recently announced foreign support?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran Arms Palestinians for New War with Israel

Ayatollah: 'Fighting the Zionist regime is a war of destiny'

BY: Adam Kredo

October 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei promised increased support for Palestinian terrorists and urged them to stockpile arms in anticipation of a new war on Israel, according to public comments made Thursday following his meeting with members of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group.

“Fighting the Zionist regime [israel] is a war of destiny,” Khamenei said after a meeting with PIJ’s secretary general, according to Iran’s semi-official Fars News Agency.

Khamenei instructed Palestinians to “intensify their fight against the Israeli regime” and vowed that Iran would continue to arm Palestinian terrorists in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank, according to Fars.

Entire article here: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-arms-palestinians-for-new-war-with-israel/

[Scott]

Once again, this thread is about the UK vote to recognize Palestine.

Please stay on topic.

[simple1]

OK, didn't research the timing of the poll, though, in my opinion, the same issues apply.

Perhaps you are hair splitting on my use of the word 'conjecture' - an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

Don't know what the ongoing cost is for Israeli society, both economically and for morale with the current impasse. Doesn't Israeli society have the fortitude to try once again, rather than leaving matters in situ? Has it emerged if there are any ongoing back door negotiations?

Question for the Mods…

Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel.

"Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel."

What additional rights do you feel the Palestinians should be given in light of this most recently announced foreign support?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran Arms Palestinians for New War with Israel

Ayatollah: 'Fighting the Zionist regime is a war of destiny'

BY: Adam Kredo

October 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei promised increased support for Palestinian terrorists and urged them to stockpile arms in anticipation of a new war on Israel, according to public comments made Thursday following his meeting with members of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group.

“Fighting the Zionist regime [israel] is a war of destiny,” Khamenei said after a meeting with PIJ’s secretary general, according to Iran’s semi-official Fars News Agency.

Khamenei instructed Palestinians to “intensify their fight against the Israeli regime” and vowed that Iran would continue to arm Palestinian terrorists in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank, according to Fars.

Entire article here: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-arms-palestinians-for-new-war-with-israel/

I was questioning equal rights for Arabs living in Israel, the reality of equal rights or otherwise.

In the current circumstance how would Iran be able to ship meangingful quantities of weapons into Gaza and West Bank?

[harryfrompattaya]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. The thread is about the UK vote on recognition of Palestine.

This is not going to stop ISIS from, beheading Englishman In fact because of this vote more beheading of Englishman shall take place This is another Munich The Muslim world is laughing at them same as Hitler did

Edited October 19, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[losworld]

The Brits are bought and owned by the banksters. Good luck on that one.

[chuckd]

OK, didn't research the timing of the poll, though, in my opinion, the same issues apply.

Perhaps you are hair splitting on my use of the word 'conjecture' - an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

Don't know what the ongoing cost is for Israeli society, both economically and for morale with the current impasse. Doesn't Israeli society have the fortitude to try once again, rather than leaving matters in situ? Has it emerged if there are any ongoing back door negotiations?

Question for the Mods…

Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel.

"Is it off topic to review the legal situation in Israel for resident Palestinian Arabs? One would think that foreign support for a Palestinian State would be influenced by their rights within Israel."

What additional rights do you feel the Palestinians should be given in light of this most recently announced foreign support?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran Arms Palestinians for New War with Israel

Ayatollah: 'Fighting the Zionist regime is a war of destiny'

BY: Adam Kredo

October 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei promised increased support for Palestinian terrorists and urged them to stockpile arms in anticipation of a new war on Israel, according to public comments made Thursday following his meeting with members of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terror group.

“Fighting the Zionist regime [israel] is a war of destiny,” Khamenei said after a meeting with PIJ’s secretary general, according to Iran’s semi-official Fars News Agency.

Khamenei instructed Palestinians to “intensify their fight against the Israeli regime” and vowed that Iran would continue to arm Palestinian terrorists in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank, according to Fars.

Entire article here: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-arms-palestinians-for-new-war-with-israel/

I was questioning equal rights for Arabs living in Israel, the reality of equal rights or otherwise.

In the current circumstance how would Iran be able to ship meangingful quantities of weapons into Gaza and West Bank?

Yeah, that's what I was responding to. Guess I didn't make myself clear.

Let's try my last sentence with one word added.

"What additional rights do you feel the RESIDENT Palestinians should be given in light of this most recently announced foreign support?"

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.

[Jingthing]

OK, didn't research the timing of the poll, though, in my opinion, the same issues apply.

...

You suggested the clear majority support for "river to the sea" goals was caused by the recent Gaza war. But when caught out when it is shown such hard core Palestinian attitudes of total denial of the right of Israel to EXIST preceded that war, you simply don't have any response. Fascinating.

The results of that poll should be clear enough to reasonable people who aren't bending over backwards to make excuses for the clear Palestinian (and Iranian, etc.) goal of ending ALL of Israel, of not really accepting her existence, now or ever.

Yes personally, I can see there are good arguments and also national self interest for Israel to take more risks to try harder to bring about peace. But realistically, I can totally understand the reluctance and total lack of trust regarding ACTUAL Palestinian goals. Not the sugar coated PR some of their leaders push internationally, but the real political will on the ground among the people.

Why negotiate the end of your existence they might ask, and it is a really good question?

BTW, as I've said before, I ALSO understand the lack of trust from the Palestinian side regarding Israel's policies.

Frankly, nobody here (or probably anywhere) really has any quick and easy solution to this that will satisfy both sides. And so it goes.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

From a very popular Palestinian news facebook site, again revealing the TRUE feelings/long term intensions of the Palestinian masses (river to the sea):

The caption says:

Night photo of occupied TEL AVIV inside Palestine

https://www.facebook.com/QudsN/photos/a.119620728114837.22171.119605611449682/781812298562340/?type=1

Picture says 1000 words, eh?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[bigjules007]

Israel has no right whatsoever to be in Palestine, period! it is an illegal occupation, lest not forget that Hamas was voted in to power by the Palestinian people, it is Israel that portrays them as terrorists using there zionist propaganda.

[Jingthing]

Israel has no right whatsoever to be in Palestine, period! it is an illegal occupation, lest not forget that Hamas was voted in to power by the Palestinian people, it is Israel that portrays them as terrorists using there zionist propaganda.

Define Palestine. It's unclear from your rant whether you are a river to the sea man, or not (at least openly).

Edited October 19, 2014 by Jingthing