Possible way to meet retirement visa financial requirements?

[Gweiloman]

Dear all,

I have a general question about the income method. Due to being a nomadic worker, I don't have a government pension and therefore unable to get an income letter from my embassy. What I do (or rather, will) have are monthly payments from my maturing annuities. How do I prove to immigration that this is equivalent to a pension from my government?

[ubonjoe]

Dear all,

I have a general question about the income method. Due to being a nomadic worker, I don't have a government pension and therefore unable to get an income letter from my embassy. What I do (or rather, will) have are monthly payments from my maturing annuities. How do I prove to immigration that this is equivalent to a pension from my government?

That would depend upon what country you are from. Some will accept any proof of income while others will only accept a pension. Others allow you to make a statement before a consular officer for the amount you have.

Immigration does not care where your income from outside the country comes from. If they want to they can ask for a back up to the income document you have. The best for that is a Thai bank account showing money coming in on regular basis,

[Gweiloman]

Dear all,

I have a general question about the income method. Due to being a nomadic worker, I don't have a government pension and therefore unable to get an income letter from my embassy. What I do (or rather, will) have are monthly payments from my maturing annuities. How do I prove to immigration that this is equivalent to a pension from my government?

That would depend upon what country you are from. Some will accept any proof of income while others will only accept a pension. Others allow you to make a statement before a consular officer for the amount you have.

Immigration does not care where your income from outside the country comes from. If they want to they can ask for a back up to the income document you have. The best for that is a Thai bank account showing money coming in on regular basis,

I'm from Malaysia but my annuity payments will be coming from Hong Kong. I would prefer to do annual lump sum transfers from Hong Kong to my Thai bank account as opposed to monthly remittances as it's not worth while paying the bank charges (was ok in the past when HSBC had personal banking here - free transfers - but they have terminated the personal banking operations since about 3 years now).

When the time comes, I will check with my embassy if they would certify my "income" even if from a foreign country. In the meantime, the 800 k method is the most convenient.

[Pib]

There are Banks in the government Complex at CW-road and they provide the bank letter without any problem.

Yeap, the Bangkok Bank branch in the CW Govt Complex will do it for any branch of Bangkok Bank...Bt100 for the letter...takes about 10 minutes or less.

Each year I do my retirement extension of stay I'm standing in line at 8:30am--not in the Immigration Office waiting for the office to open at 8:30am, but in front of the CW Bangkok Bank branch doors which also open at 8:30am. Within about 10 minutes I have the letter fresh off the press, I get a copy of the letter made for my files, then walk upstairs to immigration, get my queue ticket, usually wait about 15-30 minutes before being called, provide the immigration officer my paperwork, and about 15 minutes later I have my extension.

I tried getting my immigration queue ticket "first" one year, then I ran down to the bank to get the letter but by around 8:40am there where a least 5 other farangs ahead of me getting a letter plus other customers...so that time it took about 20 minutes to get the letter...by the time I got back up to immigration they had already called my number and I had to get another queue number. So, I decided rather than trying to guesstimate how far back in the immigration line to stand in order to get a higher queue number and not knowing what the line might be at the bank shortly after it opens, I decided just to go the bank first right when it opens, then up to immigration....that way seems to work the fastest based on my experience. Sure beats a separate trip to the embassy which requires an appointment to get an income affidavit and paying $50/Bt1600 for it....then deciding what day you want to make the trip to the immigration office. And like I mentioned earlier, Bt800K in a fixed savings accounts sure pays a higher interest rate than in a U.S. bank, the Bt800K is insured by the govt, and I have big money immediately available if needed for an emergency.

But to each his own as to whether go the income letter affidavit from the embassy or the letter from the bank...for a couple of years I did the letter from the embassy...then switched to the letter from the bank.

[Robby nz]

I do the income method just because it's less hassle an faster Did it last week at the Swedish embassy. No appointment just walk into the embassy and pay 570 baht for my income letter. It took less than 15 min and the embassy is 25 m from BTS Nana

Not so easy if one's not living in Bkk.

I find the bank letter easier as I can get this letter from any of the bank's branches for just 100 baht and no immigration office / official will question the legitimacy of such a letter, especially when issued by one of the bigger known banks.

At least in Bangkok, many banks like to send you to the head office, main bank or the bank that you started your account in. Not all banks do the letter for you.

And no office will question the income letter together with my state pension letter from my guvernment either.

I also think it's an advantage that I not must have 800k here. And that I can get the income letter a few weeks or months ahead of the visit to Immigration

Good point about the timing. The bank letter has to be fairly fresh ie not more than a couple of days old.

I do my extension renewal in Pattaya (as I own a condo there and have the blue book) but my bank account is in Bangkok (Kasikorn Bank, Interchange Building). I did ask them if I could get the bank letter from another branch (for eg, in Pattaya) and they said sure, no problem, just make sure to bring along my passport for identification purposes.

Why leave your bank account in BKK move it to a branch where you live same as I have done saves a lot of hassle.

I find the 800k in the Thai bank the most convenient, I had term investments in NZ some of which I moved to TL and now don't have the trouble of getting embassy letters and bank letters and the paperwork of combining the two with the combo method I used before.

Dropped a little interest by doing this but still get enough interest from the Thai bank TD's to make it worthwhile.

With a separate card account for living expenses I also have a backup fund on hand in an emergence,

[williet98248]

If you are an American you go to the US Embassy and get a Proof of Income Certificate. You say you have an income of X amount and they give you a certificate. No proof of income required. This certificate is all you need to show the proper income for your visa. My retirement income fluctuates from about 70 to 120K a month. I refuse to keep money in a Thai bank. I go every year to the US Embassy Outreach visits and round it off to 85K a month. They never ask for proof. Just give you a notarized certificate. Costs 1900 baht I think. All you need. Only if you are an American though. Sometimes but not always the Immigration guys will want a copy of a credit card too.

[Gweiloman]

Good point about the timing. The bank letter has to be fairly fresh ie not more than a couple of days old.

I do my extension renewal in Pattaya (as I own a condo there and have the blue book) but my bank account is in Bangkok (Kasikorn Bank, Interchange Building). I did ask them if I could get the bank letter from another branch (for eg, in Pattaya) and they said sure, no problem, just make sure to bring along my passport for identification purposes.

Why leave your bank account in BKK move it to a branch where you live same as I have done saves a lot of hassle.

I find the 800k in the Thai bank the most convenient, I had term investments in NZ some of which I moved to TL and now don't have the trouble of getting embassy letters and bank letters and the paperwork of combining the two with the combo method I used before.

Dropped a little interest by doing this but still get enough interest from the Thai bank TD's to make it worthwhile.

With a separate card account for living expenses I also have a backup fund on hand in an emergence,

The thing is that I actually live (on a day to day basis) in Bkk (rented accom). Pattaya is a weekend condo that I own. If I do then live in Pattaya full time, then I will move my account to Pattaya

[williet98248]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

I thought they had stopped accepting the affidavit now or were at least threatening to.

That is nonsense. No such thing has been done or even mentioned anywhere.

An immigration office can always ask for back proof.

Not nonsense. I have been doing it this way for twelve years. No Immigration officer has ever asked for back proof.

As far as I know only US citizens have this privilege. One of the privileges granted to US citizens by Thailand because the US slapped the Brits and French hands when they wanted a piece of Thailand after WWII. Brits were in Burma and the French in Indo

china and both wanted to divide up Thailand. Uh uh said the US. Hands off.

[Prof3934]

My elderly friend has to leave Thailand and return to the UK as he has to have major surgery.

He has about 1.5 million baht in the bank and wants to take it with him, as he will not be returning.

What is the best way for him to do this?

[Maestro]

Make a bank transfer (SWIFT remittance) from his Thai bank account to his UK bank account. On the bank form, as reason reason for the payment, tick "personal expenses"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To the OP and other Americans on this subject, just remember:

you will have an annual reporting requirement to the U.S. government if, at any time during the year, you're keeping more than $10,000 total in foreign bank accounts. The penalty for failing to make the required annual reporting can be substantial.

"Who Must File an FBAR United States persons are required to file an FBAR if: the United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported."

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR

Edited October 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NeverSure]

and dont forget ITS NOT A RETIREMENT VISA we keep telling people it an EXTENSION OF STAY BASED ON RETIREMENT.

Waaaaall... Technically you're right.

However, many people who know better still call it a retirement visa because it's easier and everyone knows what you mean.

ALSO (since you like caps 555) Notice at the top of the passport it says "Non immigrant VISA - Retirement."

Again, you're right, but why be pedantic? Thailand isn't with the passport stamps.

Cheers.

[Jingthing]

No. The RETIREMENT text is associated with the extension, NOT the non-immigrant visa.

The problem with playing along with the fiction that an extension is a retirement visa is that there is such a thing called an O-A visa which is something very specific and different than retirement extensions as far as application process, location, and features of usage.

So it is really better for this forum to stick with the policy of calling retirement extensions what they are: EXTENSIONS.

[Strangebrew]

Or if your uncomfortable with overseas banks try Citibank there is a branch in BKK at asok close to SOI Cowboy which I'm sure would be of interest to you. Also I take it your from US remember if you own or deposit assets over 10,000 USD value your required to fill out extra paperwork once a year at income tax time. Oh and the citibank thing I mention no fee for using banks ATM and in safe and secure spot. Location is Asok and Suknspit.

[moe666]

Yes, the Combo method works fine.

And if you are scared of putting Bt800K in a Thai bank account because maybe of debit card scams, etc., well, just open an account in your name only (needs to be your name only for immigration purposes) "without" a debit card and without ibanking access. That way, only a living, breathing you showing up at a bank counter with your passport and passbook could get at the money. Plus, Thai bank accounts are insured to Bt50M right now, but may drop to around Bt1M a few years from now which still more than covers the Bt800K amount. Additionally, you can get a heck of a lot more interest from a Thai savings account, especially a "fixed" type savings account, than a U.S. savings account. And another thing, you won't have to pay $50 each year to get income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy...instead just get a bank letter (Bangkok Bank charges Bt100) which reconfirms the Bt800K in your Thai bank account. It's also nice have some BIG money "immediately" available in country in case of an emergency.

And what if your "BIG" money in all your accounts worldwide doesn't even come to 800,000 baht? It's amazing to me how much money people on this forum have swilling around, judging by their comments. For some of us, having 800,000 baht spare is dreamland, in common with the vast majority of the world's population. I find it sick that the Thai authorities require foreigners, for this purpose, to have an income that is about five times greater than the average Thai income. What is the point? If it is because of a fear of a foreigner becoming destitute, so what if he does? There's no cost to the Thai state because there's no free health care or welfare benefirs for retirees which they could use.

Because nomatter what you think you have no right to live in Thailand. Anyone can live here if they can follow the rules that the Thai Government have established and that includes income or money in a Thai bank.

[moe666]

You are a US citizen, all you need to do is go to the US Embassy and get a financial statement notarized. That is acceptable proof for any Thai Immigration office, Embassy, or Consulate.

You state what your income is on the affidavit (you can put any amount), and the US Embassy asks you if it is true, you say yes, and they notarize it. They do not ask you for proof of the stated income (unlike other country's embassies).

So don't worry about proving your income, just get the notarized affidavit and you are good to go.

I thought they had stopped accepting the affidavit now or were at least threatening to.

Yes thanks to the sort of people like Jim you cannot blame immigration if they start asking for proof, if you cheat do not advertise it on Thaivisa.

[malt25]

and dont forget ITS NOT A RETIREMENT VISA we keep telling people it an EXTENSION OF STAY BASED ON RETIREMENT.

Seeing a lot of TV members use the term "Retirement visa" and the legal fraternity use the term "Retirement visa" and the Thai immigration department use the term "Retirement visa", and seeing this is just a forum for the exchange of ideas & information..... why, oh why, do pedantic princesses keep sprouting their "technically correct, corrections"

This is not a technical or official publication, it's just a forum. If correcting the term "retirement visa" is your best contribution, maybe you need a hobby, or a life.

Yes, I'm waiting for your official, technically correct reply.

But I do hope you have a great day.

Mal.

[Pib]

Or if your uncomfortable with overseas banks try Citibank there is a branch in BKK at asok close to SOI Cowboy which I'm sure would be of interest to you. Also I take it your from US remember if you own or deposit assets over 10,000 USD value your required to fill out extra paperwork once a year at income tax time. Oh and the citibank thing I mention no fee for using banks ATM and in safe and secure spot. Location is Asok and Suknspit.

While Citibank Thailand has its western parent's name Citibank Thailand operates and is lisenced under Thai law and Bank of Thailand regulations. For all practical purposes it's a Thai bank.

[Greg Nixon]

and dont forget ITS NOT A RETIREMENT VISA we keep telling people it an EXTENSION OF STAY BASED ON RETIREMENT.

In other words it is an non-immigrant "O" visa with an extension of stay based on Retirement. For convenience sake we call it a Retirement Visa.

[PAWNEESE]

In Jomtien, the tray where you get the form to extend says "Retirement Visa". The form says "Retirement Visa" on its heading. The desks that deal with it has a 20 foot sign saying "Retirement Visa". The stamp they put in your passport says "Retirement Visa". I am gonna be very daring and call it a "Retirement Visa".

[balo]

You can also talk to a visa agency in Bangkok and they will help you to get a retirement visa against a fee of 24000 baht. Its all legal except 800k will not be your money..... you're borrowing 800k for one day to meet the financial requirements.

Edited October 15, 2014 by balo

[ubonjoe]

You can also talk to a visa agency in Bangkok and they will help you to get a retirement visa against a fee of 24000 baht. Its all legal except 800k will not be your money..... you're borrowing 800k for one day to meet the financial requirements.

I don't think it will be that easy in Bangkok.

If it is not your money it is not legit. It would be a fraudulent application.

It would have to be more than one day. It would be needed for an extension also.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

People can call things whatever they choose.

But, as Jing pointed out correctly above, there are actual "retirement" visas (O-A) issued by Thai consulates that have their own requirements.

And then there are extensions of stay based on retirement that are only issued by Thai Immigration inside Thailand. Those have similar, but not exactly the same, requirements to the retirement-based visas issued by Thai consulates.

Retirement based extensions of stay get you a 12 month permission to stay. Retirement visas are valid for a year, but you'll get an additional 12 months added onto your permitted to stay until date if you depart and re-enter Thailand just before your visa expires. You don't get that with retirement-based extensions of stay.

Also, retirement visas issued by Thai consulates outside Thailand usually require both a medical and police clearance. Retirement extensions of stay issued by Thai Immigration don't require either. And there are other differences as well, including the fee charged for each.

So, call them whatever you choose. But they're not the same thing. And when people start calling them the same names, it tends to create confusion and misunderstandings of what's required and what's provided through each different approval.

Edited October 15, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

So, call them whatever you choose. But they're not the same thing. And when people start calling them the same names, it tends to create confusion and misunderstandings of what's required and what's provided through each different approval.

Agree. Confused the heck out of me for about a year when reading numerous posts on ThaiVisa. Then I figured out the difference and now at peace with the world.

It's interesting to watch some threads develop as folks intermix the two terms and requirements for each often causing confusion. Heck, even when I post on some threads talking about a "retirement extension of stay" I may instead say "retirement extension of stay/retirement visa" since I know many folks refer to a retirement extension of stay as a retirement visa...and even some immigration offices don't help by sometimes also referring to a extension of stay as a visa. But like I said, my light bulb came on one day regarding the differences so I'm now at peace.

[PAWNEESE]

TallGuy ....

Ok ... but the Immigration Officers call them both Retirement Visas !!! . Its just that there are 2 ways of getting one ... and ok they are slightly different. A collective name for various brands of liquid drink is beer. With respect it is a collective name thing mostly brought on by the Immigration offices calling them Retirement Visas so we do too. But hey ho .. just a light hearted discussion and fun topic.

[larsjohnsson]

Yes. No problem at all. Very standard. It is often called the COMBO method.

Basically any combination of income (shown with letter from embassy) and Thai bank account money totaling at least 800K baht does it.

Be careful about the calculation with exchange rates for the income part though. Exchange rates change all the time. Don't be so silly as to cut it too close ... just put some extra in the bank account to be sure the combination makes it to at least 800K.

I also think the final submitted amount should be net of tax, not gross.

It's gross. I got my income letter from the Swedish Embassy last week. I show my papers with guvernment pension and company pension. Both have the gross and net income. When the Embassy do the income letter they only write the gross income. And they also say in the letter that it is gross

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You might take a clue from the Immigration application form you have to submit when you apply for your extension of stay based on retirement.

[pmarlin]

If you are an American you go to the US Embassy and get a Proof of Income Certificate. You say you have an income of X amount and they give you a certificate. No proof of income required. This certificate is all you need to show the proper income for your visa. My retirement income fluctuates from about 70 to 120K a month. I refuse to keep money in a Thai bank. I go every year to the US Embassy Outreach visits and round it off to 85K a month. They never ask for proof. Just give you a notarized certificate. Costs 1900 baht I think. All you need. Only if you are an American though. Sometimes but not always the Immigration guys will want a copy of a credit card too.

You know you are swearing to an official document and if not truthful you can be prosecuted in US Federal courts for perjury or swearing to a false document. If convicted you can be fined and or imprisoned.

[bangkoklasse]

You can also talk to a visa agency in Bangkok and they will help you to get a retirement visa against a fee of 24000 baht. Its all legal except 800k will not be your money..... you're borrowing 800k for one day to meet the financial requirements.

It can't be legal if you only borrow the money for one day

[mahjongguy]

"why, oh why, do pedantic princesses keep sprouting their "technically correct, corrections"

I prefer Prince, if you don't mind.

It's like this: if someone tells me they have a "retirement visa" I just nod my head and let them keep talking. Doesn't matter to me what they actually have.

But if they say "I have a retirement visa, do I need a Re-Entry Permit?", then I have to quiz them about what they really have so I can give them a correct answer.