Britain summons Thai envoy over Koh Tao tourist murder probe

[Franky Bear]

There is an element of truth in what you say. If it is a cover up the Thai's have dug a very deep hole,, but it is never too late. Ok, it will be painful and the loss of face will be immense but the Thai PM will find an official head to role for sure.

I think the UK will probably get this between their teeth now and not let go until they are satisfied. This will only mean that sooner or later the truth will come out,, better for Thailand if it is sooner rather then continue with the nonsense as this will be shameful for the whole country.

A scandal and head roll will soon be forgotten,, an ongoing sharade will last a long, long time.

I really hope you're right mate.

I tend to think that the official that went to the London offices will have sat there, smiled and said, "Everything has been done correctly, we have the right guys".

I personally feel we are too far down the road with too many high ranking BIB with a lot of airtime getting their pictures taken for them to do anything other than convict these poor buggers and then tell the World how good a job they have done.

Hopefully i am very wrong.

I think the UK have done OK. You have to be very careful and respect (no matter how corrupt) a sovereign nation and how it conducts it's country. I do think that social media and the large amount of tweets the Brit ambassador got on twitter (myself included) will have helped this situation arise.

One thing for sure, that Sean guy is not telling the truth

[IAMSOBAD]

Knowing just a little of how governments and diplomacy is ''supposed' to work in the UK they have brought in a 'junior' minister to deliver the first shot across the bows. The 'big' boys will be waiting in the wings to get involved if the actions taken by the Thai officials are deemed unacceptable. You always need somewhere else to go if the initial phase fails.

To be honest I am not holding my breath. The UK have no legal right to interfere unless formally asked and we all know that will not happen. Further the crime scene and subsequent investigations have been so disturbed it is unlikely a provable alternative scenario is possible. I wonder if any 'original' DNA was acquired from the bodies in the UK? If so they have a chance but if not no chance.

As for the comments about the UK PM I am no lover of 'call me Dave' either but can anyone show me a viable alternative? The Labour Party have lost the plot completely due to Liar Blair taking us to a war to satisfy Bush and Bumbling Brown the Banker cocking everything up, Miliband...hopeless, LibDems...yeah right....that only leaves Boris, god help us, or Nigel Farage. Oh dear!

The investigation into the murders of these poor unfortunate people has been a mess and continues to be so, and until DNA is taken from ALL possible suspects this whole episode will continue to be shrouded in threads of conspiracy. I just hope that someone somewhere has the courage to come forward and say.....'well actually I know something' , because someone somewhere does.

Nobody needs a crime scene. Good old fashioned detective work and LEGAL interrogation of the Burmese and the SUSPECTED THAI BOYS will lead to the arrest of the REAL KILLERS. This needs to be done by real police and not RTP.

[GAZZPA]

Why does Britain wait till now ? The British Embassy and British government should have been in at the beginning . Britain had a right to insist on British police helping Thai police and for British Forensic scientists to simultaneously examine the evidence and test the DNA . In view of Two British people being horrifically murdered in Thailand , even the Coup Military Government should soften to permit a British participation from the beginning . A skilled British Forensic Police team could have worked alongside the Thai police and have been a great help to them , in what has been a very difficult task .

Britain nor any other country has no diplomatic right to intervene in the internal affairs of another country regardless of whether one of its citizens is either the victim or the alleged perpetrator of a crime.

The colonial attitude has yet to be laid to rest even with regards to countries that never were the unfortunate victims of often brutal British exploitation.

This is about the brutal murder of 2 innocent people and Britain has a duty to try and apply pressure if it thinks that justice has not been served for their 2 dead citizens. This has nothing to do with "colonial attitude" and your comments don't belong on this thread. There are grieving family and friends as a result of this terrible crime.

You are either ignorant or a complete idiot for making such comments here. I fully support the British government in what they are doing, if they can apply appropriate pressure so the right people are brought to justice then it is worth while.

Perhaps you can go and spit your British hatred somewhere else.

[Franky Bear]

I've seen people say that this might cause Thailand to implement stricter Visa rules on British nationals. Personally (as an expat) i could care less. Justice for these poor sods is what matters most, even if it does mean we have to jump through more hoops

[Ve37]

Britain 1 Thailand 0

As an American , I am proud of our British cousins from across the pond.

Britain 1? You mean in appeasing growing anxiety among a populace that sees them as doing nothing? OK,...we can all relax now,...a junior foreign minister really let a Thai NCPO diplomat here of his frustration.

[sweatalot]

Finally the poms are showing some backbone

Show me where Backbone won and Thailand loss?

Part of the problem is that the Thais have dug themselves into a deep hole and suddenly reversing course is all but unthinkable as too much has been said and too much possibly covered up, ' arranged ' etc. The loss of face would be massive.

Yesterday the National Police Chief again insisted the investigation had been transparent and that the era of fitting people up was over and wouldn't happen under his command.

These and other strong words from the top HAVE To be seen through now.

"Part of the problem is that the Thais have dug themselves into a deep hole and suddenly reversing course is all but unthinkable as too much has been said and too much possibly covered up, ' arranged ' etc. The loss of face would be massive."

Their loss of face is massive already.

I guess there is some kind of break even point.

When they continue the farce and are cought they might lose more face than when they admit and try honestly to get it right at last.

Seems they still believe they are not at this point

[JonathanBP]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

[wilcopops]

Does anyone really think Thailand and the RTP really care about what Briton thinks and does? The ONLY thing that makes them concerned is lack of tourists and the money that follows.

which is of course directly connected to what the Brits think as well as other countries in the West.

[GAZZPA]

There is an element of truth in what you say. If it is a cover up the Thai's have dug a very deep hole,, but it is never too late. Ok, it will be painful and the loss of face will be immense but the Thai PM will find an official head to role for sure.

I think the UK will probably get this between their teeth now and not let go until they are satisfied. This will only mean that sooner or later the truth will come out,, better for Thailand if it is sooner rather then continue with the nonsense as this will be shameful for the whole country.

A scandal and head roll will soon be forgotten,, an ongoing sharade will last a long, long time.

I really hope you're right mate.

I tend to think that the official that went to the London offices will have sat there, smiled and said, "Everything has been done correctly, we have the right guys".

I personally feel we are too far down the road with too many high ranking BIB with a lot of airtime getting their pictures taken for them to do anything other than convict these poor buggers and then tell the World how good a job they have done.

Hopefully i am very wrong.

I think the UK have done OK. You have to be very careful and respect (no matter how corrupt) a sovereign nation and how it conducts it's country. I do think that social media and the large amount of tweets the Brit ambassador got on twitter (myself included) will have helped this situation arise.

One thing for sure, that Sean guy is not telling the truth

I hope I am right too. I agree you may also be right in that some lame statement is made from Britain after some Thai words are spun, guess we will see.

[wilcopops]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

As I said somewhere else. I hope this "loss of face" doesn't turn into a tit-for-tat diplomatic incident....e.g. changes in visa requirements for UK citizens........

[Franky Bear]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

That's what i believed mate. it was not just a case of lifting the phone out the blue and telling him to "come see us now"

There will have been dialogue since this started i'd guess(?) Now it's reached a point where the UK Government is not happy so has gone public. For all people are slagging Cameron, i'm sure he will have been involved in this from the start too. Maybe not hands on, but certainly in the loop, but allowing the FO to do their job. I think he will have given the green light for this summoning too so if he gets an irate phone call from the General he has all the facts ready at hand to tell him why we have taken this action.....

[geraldbradford]

that there was a real concern in the UK about how the investigation has been handled by the Thai authorities

JohnThailandJohn, Beetlejuice, ClutchClark, Pattaya46, your boys just took a hell of a beating.

You might be too thick to realise it, though.

Don't forget the poster with 20,000+ posts that knows and protects all things Thai - jdinasia.

These shills have all been placed on my ignore list, however people replying to their ignorant and dishonest statements clog up these forums that are meant to be for factual information seeking and answering.

Once again I implore all TV members do not engage with them at all and they will wither and die. Attention seeking children give up once they know that they are being ignored.

So back on topic: this is great news and does anyone here know if UK has the powers to compel McAnna to give evidence at any enquiries?

Cheers.

[dieseldave1951]

i doubt it bit of sabor rattling but nothing more UK citizens don't mean to much bit like thailand really

what can we REALLY do

Finally something, but as also mention "call me Dave" shoul have stepped in earlier, and they should have used the actual Foreign Minister to deliver the message to The Thai diplomat as opposed to a junior nor, just to give the idiots a further push. Hopefully, oh ugh this might be the beginning of some serious political pressure from The UK

[outboard]

Finally the poms are showing some backbone

Unlike our Aussie counterparts, we tend to think first and act accordingly.

What do you expect from a bunch of convicts?

I was thinking that everyone on this site just hated Thailand and everything Thai, good to see you hate everyone and everything and are ill-informed about all countries and cultures

[GAZZPA]

Junior official and weak words coupled with the Thai Ambassador's previous b/s ... just political maneuvering to appease the media and growing concern over this case. I will sit up and take notice when someone of consequence in the UK starts asking questions.

A Junior Foreign Minister is someone to take notice of, he is effectively the first official port of call. If the Thais do not respond appropriately then for sure it will be escalated so you should take notice of this and so should the Thai's.

Anyway, lets see what happens.

[yellowboat]

I don't think the Thai powers will like this move by the UK.

Hope they will get hit right in the wallet. It should stay in the news in Europe for a very long time.

[sweatalot]

Thai police said on Friday that the two suspects had confessed to the crime and their DNA matched with samples taken from Witheridge's body.

All they have to do is get this verified by an independent agency and all the speculation will cease, the other issues of human rights and peoples right to council is a longer issue that needs to also be addressed along with opening the court system up to full public and media scrutiny - access and follow up of cases as they are heard - time for Thailand to get with being open honest and transparent.

It was the constant media release of conflicting statements from the authorities that caused this circus, the RTP need a central press/media department that has 100% control over statements that are released to the public, all proposed press statements must go through them for approval

The NRC can add this to their reform agenda - it needs to happen

"the RTP need a central press/media department "

Duh! What they need is an ethics department that makes sure everything is done properly, transparently without bias, without lies and without corruption

[HeijoshinCool]

Maybe Britain has "other" samples as well. Sean and maybe family members of Koh Tao

^{Britain now has DNA from Hannah and also the two innocents in jail.}

^{That is why they are now getting more involved.}

.

Possibly, Boris.

I don't know British law; when McAnna was convicted, did the police obtain a sample of his DNA?

It would have been a very simple matter to send someone to KT and surreptitiously obtain samples of Touch DNA at the AC Bar, from its owners. If I was the family, I would have hired someone to do this.

Both victims, unless scrubbed clean, also had a high probability of having lots of Touch DNA on their bodies.

And a hair or two from the Burmese, while being interviewed by their lawyers …. a pat on the knee is all it takes.

Only time will tell what might, or might not be, going on behind the scenes.

[pendingo]

Talk about stable door.

This is too little too late and shows just how uncaring the UK government is.

Right from the start Cameron and the Foreign Office should have been in the mix.

These two people were British Subjects and instead of pussy footing around they should have told the Thai authorities they would be getting assistance from a UK investigation team like it or not.

Total mess up and I'm sick of all this bullshit.

[geraldbradford]

A skilled British Forensic Police team could have worked alongside the Thai police and have been a great help to them , in what has been a very difficult task .

Mate, your'e missing the point; RTP did not want anyone to see what they were doing.

And forensic examination of a crime scene is not actually a 'difficult' task for the experts that are trained to do so. Difficult for bumbling, dishonest and corrupt Thai police.

Cheers.

[JonathanBP]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

That's what i believed mate. it was not just a case of lifting the phone out the blue and telling him to "come see us now"

There will have been dialogue since this started i'd guess(?) Now it's reached a point where the UK Government is not happy so has gone public. For all people are slagging Cameron, i'm sure he will have been involved in this from the start too. Maybe not hands on, but certainly in the loop, but allowing the FO to do their job. I think he will have given the green light for this summoning too so if he gets an irate phone call from the General he has all the facts ready at hand to tell him why we have taken this action.....

Yes, a Minister or very senior diplomat would have made this request a undoubtedly with a nod from Cameron or Clegg. People tend to dismiss a diplomat being 'summoned' as if it is for a cup of tea, but this is the corporate equivalent to be being given a formal written or verbal reprimand. It is unlikely at this stage that the Primeminister of both countries will talk on the phone, or at least not formally - informally perhaps. Informally a lot happens, but formally, it is very measured. Hving your diplomat summoned is being served formal notice that the other country has displeasure.

[Franky Bear]

Maybe Britain has "other" samples as well. Sean and maybe family members of Koh Tao

^{Britain now has DNA from Hannah and also the two innocents in jail.}

^{That is why they are now getting more involved.}

.

Possibly, Boris.

I don't know British law; when McAnna was convicted, did the police obtain a sample of his DNA?

It would have been a very simple matter to send someone to KT and surreptitiously obtain samples of Touch DNA at the AC Bar, from its owners. If I was the family, I would have hired someone to do this.

Both victims, unless scrubbed clean, also had a high probability of having lots of Touch DNA on their bodies.

And a hair or two from the Burmese, while being interviewed by their lawyers …. a pat on the knee is all it takes.

Only time will tell what might, or might not be, going on behind the scenes.

When you get convicted with any crime in the UK you get your DNA taken. That law came in a good few years ago (i think)

I'd hope McCanna, with been a child sec offender will have defiantly have had his taken

[Expat Girl]

This is good news, as usual the British government along with the respective embassy in Thailand will have been active in the background doing their due diligence.

[Oziex1]

The Thai translation on this is.

The Thai Charge d'affaires Nadhavathna Krishnamra was called in to receive official congratulations from the British government for the outstanding work by the RTP.

[catweazle]

YEAH! Power to the people!!!! Everyone here, who did not buckle under the threats of the RTP and kept posting intimidating questions about the flaws and unanswered questions in this murder investigation have been a part of it! I love you guys!!!!!!!!! Sucess!!!! People can make a difference, resistance can move mountains! These latest news made my day!

[Franky Bear]

Talk about stable door.

This is too little too late and shows just how uncaring the UK government is.

Right from the start Cameron and the Foreign Office should have been in the mix.

These two people were British Subjects and instead of pussy footing around they should have told the Thai authorities they would be getting assistance from a UK investigation team like it or not.

Total mess up and I'm sick of all this bullshit.

They will have been in the mix from the start

[greenchair]

And lets not forget a DNA test for Sean.

[Dogmatix]

Here are two blogs that provide very insightful background on police and mafia activities on Koh Tao.

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

http://drugsinthailand.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-koh-tao-story.html

The first is good general information about the 5 mafia families there, while the second is a chilling personal experience that illustrates police involvement in the drug trade, extortion and setting up patsies.

[Docno]

Finally something, but as also mention "call me Dave" shoul have stepped in earlier, and they should have used the actual Foreign Minister to deliver the message to The Thai diplomat as opposed to a junior nor, just to give the idiots a further push. Hopefully, oh ugh this might be the beginning of some serious political pressure from The UK

I think there are protocols around these things... who meets with whom, etc., especially when there are diplomatic protests or other 'whip-cracking' involved. Having the Foreign Minister meet with a 'lowly' foreign diplomat on a matter like this would probably not be deemed appropriate--relative levels of status are important--and may even give too much regard to the Thai diplomat in this situation. The fact that the Foreign Ministry has gone public with its concerns shows its taking the case very seriously and will be of some diplomatic embarrassment to the Thai side.

[CapeThai]

Very Impressed by the Brits first move !!

First allowed Thailand to through ALL it's best cards on the table, while slowly but surely gathering all the ACE's, Kings and Jokers without making a noise.

Very clever move UK !!

You have everybody's support on this.