Pakistan court upholds Asia Bibi death sentence

[webfact]

Pakistan court upholds Asia Bibi death sentence

(BBC) A Pakistani court has upheld the death penalty for a Christian woman convicted of blasphemy in 2010.

Asia Bibi was found guilty of making derogatory comments about the Prophet Muhammad during an argument with a Muslim woman.

The Lahore High Court rejected her appeal against the sentence passed by a lower court. Her lawyers have vowed to take the case to the Supreme Court.

Ms Bibi's sentence in 2010 sparked global condemnation.

Two prominent politicians - Punjab governor Salman Taseer and minorities minister Shahbaz Bhatti - were both murdered the following year for calling for reforms to blasphemy laws in the wake of her trial.

Ms Bibi consistently denied the allegations against her, saying they stemmed from an argument with a group of women over a pot of water.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29640245


-- BBC 2014-10-17

[MJP]

Words aren't really enough.

[Somtamnication]

Ridiculous. Seriously, mix religion with courts or politics and we have war.

[Jingthing]

Until it is OK for people anywhere in the world to make derogatory comments about the Prophet M., draw cartoons, etc. without risking their lives, the world has a problem, The Muslim world really should learn from the Mormons and how they reacted to the Broadway musical, The Book of Mormon.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Until it is OK for people anywhere in the world to make derogatory comments about the Prophet M., draw cartoons, etc. without risking their lives, the world has a problem, The Muslim world really should learn from the Mormons and how they reacted to the Broadway musical, The Book of Mormon.

The problem is the blasphemy law. It's catch 22. Criticise the law and it is deemed blasphemy in itself. So the first hurdle is to change attitudes and interpretation to allow questioning of the law. Then modify it.

Any historians know how Christian blasphemy laws were overcome? Blasphemy was a crime not only during the Inquisition.

Back to topic, I imagine this poor woman has suffered discrimination all her life. I am appalled that her accusers can see her die over a disagreement over a pot of water.

[Jingthing]

I think the problem is much bigger than just one Muslim country's blasphemy laws. Remember Salmon Rushdie?

[Seastallion]

I think the problem is much bigger than just one Muslim country's blasphemy laws. Remember Salmon Rushdie?

Yes, I remember.

I was talking about the blasphemy laws in general, not just in Pakistan. The fatwa on Rushdie (a Pakistani) was made under the blasphemy law too.

[canuckamuck]

7th century justice.

Of course the apologists will say that not all Muslims think this is acceptable. Which is true but not very helpful. The ones that do speak out, and can do it safely; are living somewhere with western standards. If a country is fully Islamic, the dissent is a quiet as the tide. That doesn't mean the dissent is gone, but it does mean that it is inert. How are the moderates going to fix their religion? Most Muslims live in countries where the majority embraces Sharia and all the unavoidable executions and the abuse of the non-Muslims.

There is no place for religious intolerance in the global community.

[Scott]

Anti-Islamic posts and replies removed. This is about a specific case in a specific country. It is not necessarily indicative of all people of a specific religion in all countries.

[klauskunkel]

How can a world culture brainwash itself into regressing to medieval thinking, complete with justifying archaic laws, superstition, beheadings, stonings, tribal conflicts and total intolerance of any other culture. This culture once was the exact opposite many hundreds of years ago... w. t. f. happened?

Secularism was too weak in Islamic countries and religious leaders took advantage and increased their influence in politics over time. And this is what resulted: rampant bigotry, fear and hate mongering towards anything different, proscription of any advancement in society.

Of course, such a system is unsustainable on it's own, they don't produce anything, there is no progress - and if this culture were isolated from the rest of the world, it would purge itself from its leaders, or perish. However, there is no isolation, and for this culture to continue, they have to export their system into other cultures and take over, by whatever means. They have to expand to sustain themselves...similar to a virus.

Edited October 17, 2014 by klauskunkel

[canopus1969]

About time we had another Crusade ...

[Norvid]

I wouldn't remove any of the replies. All them refer to a religious beliefs that are ridicules in all their aspects. I might state that all started with Old Testament the biggest lie of all. "Personal God" doesn't exist. Animals eat each other alive and if this was created by so claimed "God", he was a madman, sick bastard with schizophrenia and murderous tendencies.

[Seastallion]

About time we had another Crusade ...

That's what idiot George Dubbya Bush called it when he began his invasion of Afghanistan just after 9/11.

[simple1]

7th century justice.

Of course the apologists will say that not all Muslims think this is acceptable. Which is true but not very helpful. The ones that do speak out, and can do it safely; are living somewhere with western standards. If a country is fully Islamic, the dissent is a quiet as the tide. That doesn't mean the dissent is gone, but it does mean that it is inert. How are the moderates going to fix their religion? Most Muslims live in countries where the majority embraces Sharia and all the unavoidable executions and the abuse of the non-Muslims.

There is no place for religious intolerance in the global community.

Blasphemy laws are embedded in the Pakistani Constitution and were 'hardened' by the dictator Zia-ul-Haq to gain support from the Islamic conservatives. There has been discussion to remove the laws from the Constitution, but blocked, by guess who, the Islamic Conservatives. Politicians often rely on support from the conservatives to remain in power and those who speak against are regularly murdered, including lawyers, activists and so on. The Lower Court judges who pass the initial sentence are also under threat of death.

Additionally from the URL below:

"Lawyers also said that blasphemy laws are often used as a mask for other disputes. In Asghar's case, for example, the complainant who accused him of blasphemy was also engaged in a property dispute with him. "This has become a tool to settle personal scores. You will not see any genuineness in any of these cases,"

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/05/living-fear-under-pakistan-blasphemy-law-20145179369144891.html

In the above circumstances it's extremely difficult to know the way forward. Perhaps as non- sectarian education is made more accessible, in the longer term changes will be made. For the meantime, during the last ten years or so approx 40,000 civilians have been killed by Pakistani Islamic extremists and sectarian in fighting that just underlines the current awfulness for those seeking change in Pakistani society.

Edited October 17, 2014 by simple1

[ABCer]

 

Anti-Islamic posts and replies removed. This is about a specific case in a specific country. It is not necessarily indicative of all people of a specific religion in all countries.

 

Thanks Scott for your Moderation.

But I'm afraid it is indicative.

Islam is not a religion.

[ABCer]

 

About time we had another Crusade ...

 

I Thought we have it already.

[ABCer]

 

About time we had another Crusade ...

That's what idiot George Dubbya Bush called it when he began his invasion of Afghanistan just after 9/11.

 

Idiocy runs in the family. I agree about this.

Crusade it was not.

Crusade is a Holy War - an equivalent of Jihad - against A Certain Religion (Islam if you can keep the secret).

[cookee68]

Ridiculous. Seriously, mix religion with courts or politics and we have war.

No its just a Muslim thing, Cristianity don't have that problem, and they are bigger

[Mudcrab]

Ridiculous. Seriously, mix religion with courts or politics and we have war.

Therein lies the issue.

There is no separation between politics, the courts or anything else. there is only Islam . It is a belief, a way of life all rolled in to one.

Not like the western concept of being Christian at all.

And that is why people struggle with what is happening to this poor woman.

People think OK she is a Christian...but apart from that she is just a normal everyday person. But that doesn't happen where she lives.

Watch the Stoning of Soroya M. I think I spelt it right and you may understand what this poor woman is up against.

It's only the fact that this lady has actually been to some sort of court that we even heard about her. Many others we do not hear about.

[Mudcrab]

Ridiculous. Seriously, mix religion with courts or politics and we have war.

No its just a Muslim thing, Cristianity don't have that problem, and they are bigger

Not in that part of the world.

[KarenBravo]

"My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend and if you deny it, we will lawfully kill you".

[Jingthing]

In general Islam is at a different place historically than other major world religions. What other major world religion has such massive support among it's believers that the death penalty is proper for leaving the faith? Answer: NONE. With Islam, it varies country to country of course but in some Islamic nations the support for that is at 90 percent. I don't think it's a matter of blaming a specific religion per se ... but rather a wish that the Islamic world would hurry up and become more modern ASAP. Other major religions have, they can too if the will is there. Killing people for leaving any faith is of course totally barbaric and totally unacceptable in our modern era. Nothing to do but condemn it but don't try that in some Muslim countries ... could be trouble.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Jingthing

[coma]

Another of Islam's finest moments.

[coma]

About time we had another Crusade ...

Not far from the mark my friend. They won't csll it a crusade though. It will be WW3

[shariq607]

Nowhere in the quran, it precribes punishment for apostasy to death penalty

Some reference to apostasy in the quran.

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

[There shall be no compulsion in religion.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[And so, [O Prophet,] guide them; your task is only to guide. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, "I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me' and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, 'Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?' And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

[behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.] (An-Nisaa' 4:137)

Verily, We sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book [Qur'an] for mankind in truth. So, whosoever goes astray, he goes astray to his own loss. And you [O Muhammad] are not a guardian over them. (Az-Zumar 39:41)

if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).

For those terrorists who kill innocent people by suicide bombs and use religion to justify. Suicide is forbidden

And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. And whoever does that in aggression and injustice - then We will drive him into a Fire. Surah 4:29-30

[cookee68]

Nowhere in the quran, it precribes punishment for apostasy to death penalty

Some reference to apostasy in the quran.

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

[There shall be no compulsion in religion.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[And so, [O Prophet,] guide them; your task is only to guide. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, "I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me' and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, 'Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?' And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

[behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.] (An-Nisaa' 4:137)

Verily, We sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book [Qur'an] for mankind in truth. So, whosoever goes astray, he goes astray to his own loss. And you [O Muhammad] are not a guardian over them. (Az-Zumar 39:41)

if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).

For those terrorists who kill innocent people by suicide bombs and use religion to justify. Suicide is forbidden

And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. And whoever does that in aggression and injustice - then We will drive him into a Fire. Surah 4:29-30

but if the Quran says that, then why do they still want to give her the death penalty, I think in the Muslim faith to many people twist it for their own good. its a joke, catch up with the times, stoning to death and all that shit finished with the romans, people have to educate them selves, all faiths are only a guide and should be understood as that, free will should never be taken away from any one, But I find that the Muslim faith forces its self upon people who do not want it, and in return they will be hurt or killed, if that is a faith or a religion, then I would rather the devil