Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[JohnThailandJohn]

Can I ask everyone would you let you child go on vacation to the island now? I hope you all reply even JTJ and JDINASIA, will be interesting what the replies are.

Of course, I certainly have no problem at all with my kids or myself going to a place where a murder happened. Murders happen everywhere and in fact this is the only reported incident ever on that island. People die all the time on the highways too due to no fault of their own but we all still drive. Going to this island is safer than many other big ones like Phuket and certainly more so than a big city like Bangkok even though Bangkok is extremely safe give its sized compared to many other cities around the world.

Even the much smaller Vatican has crime and has had a murder .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Vatican_City

Edited October 26, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[MikePhuket1970]

Time for football now.

[Lozza]

Interestingly, there's quite a lot out there on the interpretation of DNA evidence. Seemingly it's not the infallible smoking gun that the general public would like to believe. 'Highly subjective' was the term used in one report, and in one case the DNA evidence used to secure a conviction in the States was subsequently sent to seventeen accredited experts. Only one put the convicted guy in the frame, twelve put him out of it, and the rest deemed the evidence to be inconclusive.

Seeing as DNA evidence would - aside from the now retracted confessions - appear to be pretty much all that the Thai police now have against the accused, maybe that's why the prosecution keep sending the case back to the police. Certainly the British Crown Prosecution state unequivocally that they will not bring a case to court on DNA evidence alone. It's too unreliable.

I thought it interesting anyway. A quick Google search on DNA reliability will throw up a load of links.

Apologies for linking to my own post but a scenario just occurred to me that kind of fits with what seems to be happening.

The DNA samples from these two came back as 'possible' matches (very common apparently), but the sample from the 3rd suspect was a total no. It's enough for the RTP, who believe that if they can get confessions to go along with the 'possible' match, it'll be enough. The public think DNA evidence is infallible anyway. They let the third guy go, and take these two off to a 'safe' house where, come hell or high water, they're going to get their confessions. And so they do. The police now announce that it's an open and shut case and pat themsleves on the back.

But the confessions get retracted, and now all that they're left with is a a coupe of 'possible' matches that a half decent defence lawyer will rip to bits. It would have been enough if the case hadn't been so high profile, but now these guys are sure to be getting proper council to defend them. The state prosecution service can see what's coming down the pike, and baulk at going into court with such questionable evidence.

So the case stalls and that's where we are today. Pure speculation of course, but it fits the facts.

They have dug themselves a big hole to get out of now. The defence would have a minefield of info we won't get to hear until court.

[IslandLover]

TTom911, on 25 Oct 2014 - 18:22, said:

mr. moderator, can I ask something?

can we have a "stink" button here, and if enough people, democratically, decide it "stinks" then the "stinker" can only post at a certain reduced "stink rate" on the forum.

can we do that, mr moderator?

Just put th trolls on your "ignore list". That's what I have done. It makes life so much easier . As an experienced Yahoo Groups moderator, I know what I would have done with these irritating trolls a long time ago .

BTW these particular trolls are childish enough to report any posts they don't like!

[Norvabc]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

Good point, all of a sudden there is'nt any "wagging the dog's tail" in front of us.

But i'm almost sure that "daddy" has paid mucho buck's to keep it out of the spotlight.

Thai Chit chat says Nomsod is headed for Sydney or some none Uk territory

[Willy Eckerslike]

Some .......suspects are in jail.....Yes but the case is not closed is it??

[Lozza]

But back on topic because i know your interested... a simple Q for you, do you believe any of the claims from the 2 Burmese regarding torture, threats etc ? just curious

I would not be surprised at all if they were mistreated. I currently don't believe they were "physically tortured" though they may have been handled roughly and threatened. According to the parents who went and visited one of them, he said they confessed due to "threats of torture".

I would not be at all surprised if the police got confession through threats. The only doubt I would really have about the confessions being obtained in an illegal way is police know how much scrutiny and under a microscope this case was under.

Although there could be an explanation, on thing I am not seeing why they would also confess to the crimes to their embassy, lawyers and a human rights group later in a private meeting without police present where they also said they were abused.

Regardless, I believe the confessions should almost surely be thrown out simply because of the suspects claims of threats unless police recorded them in full and can show there was no mistreatment. I believe this should be the case everywhere given there is technology readily available to record interrogations. Because of this, I am suspect of confessions got by any police department across the globe.

Edit: as for tourism damage to Koh Tao --- never did I suggest people would solely come to Thailand to see a crime scene ... just as people don't go to California to take the murder tour bus but many do while they are there. I also was clear in saying this was just one reason people might go in the near term. Although not stated I was talking more about local tourism which makes up a much bigger junk of tourism in Thailand than most people realize.

Thanks for a topical reply

OK so when does a threat of harm become classed as torture ? It dosnt have to be physical, im sure they were slapped about, its almost routine for the RTP but torture can be mental too and thats why threats are used, to cause mental anguish and the thought of the threat being carried out is believable.

if a British police said that most would likely just say BS and confess to nothing knowing it was obviously just a ruse to extract a confession but.....These kids are Burmese, ergo they would likely have the same opinion and fears of the RTP as they would of their own police/army in their country... given the record Myanmar has of inflicting beatings and killings on their own people in these kids lifetime I can only see the kids totally believing the threats could turn real....

As for the case I dont believe these confessions can now be taken seriously either, however it is also for that reason it is VITAL to have the DNA looked at by others, for the sole reason if nothing else to know for certain of their part or not.

yes i know gruesome tours exist, we have them in the UK too like Cambodia have the killing fields. but thats historical history type tours, I cant see any people other than freaks coming to look at saree beach for that reason. Thais might but they dont like bad spirits, I dont know many Thai who would go there with the way things are atm. For that matter I cant see other Asians being comfortable there either.

final footnote...

The Thai press is no doubt guilty of making things up, misquoting, mistranslating and others no doubt use it from time to time to that effect since its always in question if the press quotes people properly or not... some of the contradictions and strange things said in tandem has indeed seemed wacky at times.

I am not going to split hairs on what is and is not torture, listed to enough of that for years in the US. But again, I say throw out the confessions with any claims by the suspects they were mistreated unless the cops can prove they weren't (recorded).

DNA -- let me now as you a question. Do you believe the cops at the crime scene or pre-medical exam planted the suspects DNA and semen?

There are so many logical reasons why this would be near impossible and make no sense but it is the only plausible way you can believe the police are lying about the DNA match unless of course they are just lying and there was no match and come trial this would clearly come out and think the prosecutors would know this by now too.

So, barring they all conspired to set these two up or there is going to be a huge story coming out any day that there was never a DNA match we have to accept there was a match, even if it was a BS match not from the victim or suspect (they replaced actual DNA), right?

I am not going to get into all the details of everyone involved in the process but the bottom line this would involve a conspiracy so great and gran with so many people who never heard of the headsman from Koh Tao and have no fear at all of him that is just makes this a ridiculous notion.

The gist of it is that early on the original samples collected are cataloged were sent to a lab or labs for a DNA report. This results are shared with numerous people and backed up on other computers. Numerous people in the lab would have been involved in the testing and likely different people involved with testing different samples that they said early on matched. Some of these people that were shared the information was a number of universities (i believe it was 3) as they were involved with comparing the DNA to the hundreds of samples they were collecting from people on the island. Even with the universities help, they couldn't process all the samples for comparisons and there was a big backlog. But each one of these labs has numerous people who had access to the original DNA report and numerous computers were these results were stored.

Point being is there is no way to undue the results of the initial DNA tests from the victims and crime scene. Too many people have these results and they are located in too many places. Any attempt to change them in one place would set off alarms at others.

The second part is as long as the suspects bodies are around, there DNA will be here. If they are innocent then their lawyers have already taken their DNA or at minimum that of their family and will certainly have it compared to that original DNA probably at all the labs and probably at no charge since most people want to know for sure the truth. Regardless of how corrupt the police are, they are not so stupid as to believe this would not happen while planning this conspiracy.

As for some other country retesting and verifying results, it is just not the way things are done here or anywhere else no matter how much public outcry. I won't even get into all the reasons why but no country is going to put itself in the position of needing to depend on another country to gain their own public trust. Every time there was doubt in the future they'd once again need to do this for not just the public but every defendant and they then would no longer be a sovereign nation. Thailand has no problem asking for help, like many countries, and have invited both UK and US authorities to help or be involved in criminal investigations where they needed help to solve. Having another country confirm what Thailand can and has already has done is a completely different story. Like it or not and regardless if it makes it tough for people to accept, this is just the way things are done across the globe.

Besides, the only way another country can retest is if they have the original sperm from the victim and if they test and the results confirm then people will simply say the Thai police replaced the original specimens despite how this would nearly be impossible.

Do you believe the cops at the crime scene or pre-medical exam planted the suspects DNA and semen?

At the scene no, but after its possible, pre med exam with all the samples being sent in and the boys had already had a DNA swab in the first round up just after the murders and not flagged up then. The original samples taken from the victims havnt even been handled by a forensics team apparently anyway ? so possibly anything could have happened to samples once away from the crime scene.

unless of course they are just lying and there was no match

This is in my opinion far far more simple and likely, if the RTP present a file and DNA report that says its a match how would a judge know if the report was made up, arranged, legit or even credible ? they would just normally accept it, Seeing as no forensics team was on this case how can it be trustworthy, DNA could be contaminated very easily... all the judge would have is a RTP report that says match, given they arnt the pillar of honesty I think its entirely likely the RTP may have just fudged a DNA report to look ok in a thai court... but now the spotlight is in them any second look at DNA would reveal any fudge up or claim anyway... that's their problem i think, they cant present what they have because its BS and probably a made up report with some name on the bottom. I think the prosecution are concerned about that and doubt they wish to be a part of this farce. thats the main reason I think they are not to date allowing samples to be tested by an independent agy,

We could argue all day semantics of what can or cant be done here or wherever but we wont...here is the crux

The facts are this. Elections Constitution, MPs, parliament etc etc all this is suspended. Thailand is under military rule, martial Law exists nationwide.... let me say that again.

Thailand is under Martial law and military control, there is no constitution and anything the the army says can happen... can, or of it says not it cant. Its that simple atm really it is.

Meaning If PM P wishes to allow outside verification or help or whatever, thats what will and can happen...period ..there is nothing that cannot be altered anytime its required at the moment... not since the coup.

Actually the opportunity to take a huge leap forwards exists for PM P and Thailand, question is will they seize the moment or have to be dragged there unwillingly and embarrassed or worse be totally predictable and show theres nothing different at all about this coup, close ranks and protect the corrupt ?

I think you are missing the point. Yes, theoretically the army has a lot of power. But, only if they WANT to use it. They do not want to upset the status quo, the elite, the super rich, or the well connected. This coup was never about reorganizing Thai society. It was about getting the baboons to stop bickering. They have succeeded in that. But, it was never about upsetting the fundamentals of society, the family in Tao is untouchable, even by the army.

good post thx

[Willy Eckerslike]

It is not done and dusted as some would like to think because very recently Police Chief Somyot assigned the Acting Deputy Commander of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Major General Suwat Jaengyodsut, to take over from the local officers as the Chief Investigator of the case. I for one am looking forward to the next few days........

[IslandLover]

DarloKnight, on 25 Oct 2014 - 20:11, said:

Why bloody quote me? Or am I the easy target cause I'm a women? I have put my point of view across like everyone else or is it cause I am female I'm not allowed a point of view?

All I said was SA not UK!

Thanks jdinasia for pointing out I should scroll down.

The problem with you is how put things across to other people it's all about scoring points not looking at both sides of the debate.

@DarloKnight - I don't think JD likes women. BTW, I'm one too . Just put him and his buddy JTJ on your "ignore list". It works like a charm

[englishoak]

Do you believe the cops at the crime scene or pre-medical exam planted the suspects DNA and semen?

At the scene no, but after its possible, pre med exam with all the samples being sent in and the boys had already had a DNA swab in the first round up just after the murders and not flagged up then. The original samples taken from the victims havnt even been handled by a forensics team apparently anyway ? so possibly anything could have happened to samples once away from the crime scene.

unless of course they are just lying and there was no match

This is in my opinion far far more simple and likely, if the RTP present a file and DNA report that says its a match how would a judge know if the report was made up, arranged, legit or even credible ? they would just normally accept it, Seeing as no forensics team was on this case how can it be trustworthy, DNA could be contaminated very easily... all the judge would have is a RTP report that says match, given they arnt the pillar of honesty I think its entirely likely the RTP may have just fudged a DNA report to look ok in a thai court... but now the spotlight is in them any second look at DNA would reveal any fudge up or claim anyway... that's their problem i think, they cant present what they have because its BS and probably a made up report with some name on the bottom. I think the prosecution are concerned about that and doubt they wish to be a part of this farce. thats the main reason I think they are not to date allowing samples to be tested by an independent agy,

We could argue all day semantics of what can or cant be done here or wherever but we wont...here is the crux

The facts are this. Elections Constitution, MPs, parliament etc etc all this is suspended. Thailand is under military rule, martial Law exists nationwide.... let me say that again.

Thailand is under Martial law and military control, there is no constitution and anything the the army says can happen... can, or of it says not it cant. Its that simple atm really it is.

Meaning If PM P wishes to allow outside verification or help or whatever, thats what will and can happen...period ..there is nothing that cannot be altered anytime its required at the moment... not since the coup.

Actually the opportunity to take a huge leap forwards exists for PM P and Thailand, question is will they seize the moment or have to be dragged there unwillingly and embarrassed or worse be totally predictable and show theres nothing different at all about this coup, close ranks and protect the corrupt ?

I think you are missing the point. Yes, theoretically the army has a lot of power. But, only if they WANT to use it. They do not want to upset the status quo, the elite, the super rich, or the well connected. This coup was never about reorganizing Thai society. It was about getting the baboons to stop bickering. They have succeeded in that. But, it was never about upsetting the fundamentals of society, the family in Tao is untouchable, even by the army.

good post thx

I happen to think so too but if they WANT to they can do whatever they wish, including sorting this mess out. That was my point

[IslandLover]

spidermike007, on 25 Oct 2014 - 22:45, said:

I could not disagree more. I think tourism will suffer. First of all the diving in Tao really, really sucks. Some of the worst in the world. Good for the gulf, but that is not saying much. If you have five or six meters of visibility, you are lucky. Also, it is crowded with hundreds and hundreds of other divers. And the accommodations are very overpriced. I learned to dive there, and once I started diving elsewhere, I realized how bad it was. The gulf is very degraded. Plus, there is massive runoff from the rivers upcountry.

I think there are many people, like me. who will never return. And who will discourage their friends from going. Koh Phangan has everything Tao does, minus the crocodile ruling families, the crappy diving, and the overpriced accommodations. Plus, it is easier to get to. A blight on those horrific families, who have done so little for their people, despite being given hundreds of millions of dollars, by a super corrupt government official way back when, who committed one of the most ignorant acts in Thai history, by granting them the lease concession for the entire island, for peanuts. An error of Shakespearean proportions. And one the army refuses to undo. Let us maintain the status quo, please.

@spidermike007 - I agree with you. The diving is far better on the Andaman side, and in neighbouring Malaysia. Whilst JTJ's theory is bizarre, I will add that Koh Tao has become a "party island" in recent years and the majority of the tourists now are hedonistic youngsters from western countries looking for a good time, consequently ruining it for the "quality tourists" that the PM is looking to attract. These types have ruined Koh Tao (and much of Thailand) IMHO. Unfortunately it is these party animals who will keep on coming back to places like Koh Tao because many of them are too self-obsessed to care about the recent murders, or the so-called mafia, or the corrupt law enforcement. Sad

[alfalfa19]

Can I ask everyone would you let you child go on vacation to the island now? I hope you all reply even JTJ and JDINASIA, will be interesting what the replies are.

No, and not likely I would go myself either. Also, I fear that this type of situation exists on many of Thailand's island "paradises". Now that I think about it, I remember reading of many, many heinous crimes in Thailand which were quickly "solved" and cleared up when the cops arrested a "burmese laborer". After what I've observed in this case, I feel that many horrible crimes were cleared up in this exact fashion.

[spidermike007]

Do you believe the cops at the crime scene or pre-medical exam planted the suspects DNA and semen?

At the scene no, but after its possible, pre med exam with all the samples being sent in and the boys had already had a DNA swab in the first round up just after the murders and not flagged up then. The original samples taken from the victims havnt even been handled by a forensics team apparently anyway ? so possibly anything could have happened to samples once away from the crime scene.

unless of course they are just lying and there was no match

This is in my opinion far far more simple and likely, if the RTP present a file and DNA report that says its a match how would a judge know if the report was made up, arranged, legit or even credible ? they would just normally accept it, Seeing as no forensics team was on this case how can it be trustworthy, DNA could be contaminated very easily... all the judge would have is a RTP report that says match, given they arnt the pillar of honesty I think its entirely likely the RTP may have just fudged a DNA report to look ok in a thai court... but now the spotlight is in them any second look at DNA would reveal any fudge up or claim anyway... that's their problem i think, they cant present what they have because its BS and probably a made up report with some name on the bottom. I think the prosecution are concerned about that and doubt they wish to be a part of this farce. thats the main reason I think they are not to date allowing samples to be tested by an independent agy,

We could argue all day semantics of what can or cant be done here or wherever but we wont...here is the crux

The facts are this. Elections Constitution, MPs, parliament etc etc all this is suspended. Thailand is under military rule, martial Law exists nationwide.... let me say that again.

Thailand is under Martial law and military control, there is no constitution and anything the the army says can happen... can, or of it says not it cant. Its that simple atm really it is.

Meaning If PM P wishes to allow outside verification or help or whatever, thats what will and can happen...period ..there is nothing that cannot be altered anytime its required at the moment... not since the coup.

Actually the opportunity to take a huge leap forwards exists for PM P and Thailand, question is will they seize the moment or have to be dragged there unwillingly and embarrassed or worse be totally predictable and show theres nothing different at all about this coup, close ranks and protect the corrupt ?

I think you are missing the point. Yes, theoretically the army has a lot of power. But, only if they WANT to use it. They do not want to upset the status quo, the elite, the super rich, or the well connected. This coup was never about reorganizing Thai society. It was about getting the baboons to stop bickering. They have succeeded in that. But, it was never about upsetting the fundamentals of society, the family in Tao is untouchable, even by the army.

good post thx

I happen to think so too but if they WANT to they can do whatever they wish, including sorting this mess out. That was my point

But, whether or not they will, says a lot about what their true intentions are, and if they are truly concerned about changing this place, to the point where they are willing to pursue the rich and the powerful, or just make a lot of noise and go after the defenseless individuals. So far, the latter is all we have seen. They have not even been willing to go after the jet ski operators in a meaningful way, nor the lawless samui taxi drivers, nor the lawless ark bar on samui, nor many others such as the five pig families on Tao, who have stupid fortunes.

[spidermike007]

Can I ask everyone would you let you child go on vacation to the island now? I hope you all reply even JTJ and JDINASIA, will be interesting what the replies are.

Of course, I certainly have no problem at all with my kids or myself going to a place where a murder happened. Murders happen everywhere and in fact this is the only reported incident ever on that island. People die all the time on the highways too due to no fault of their own but we all still drive. Going to this island is safer than many other big ones like Phuket and certainly more so than a big city like Bangkok even though Bangkok is extremely safe give its sized compared to many other cities around the world.

Even the much smaller Vatican has crime and has had a murder .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Vatican_City

Certainly not so, if you tangle with Nomsod. Just take a guess as to how many people he and his filthy, scheming, criminal gang have taken down prior to this incident. What are the possibilities this was his first homicide? Just about nil. And what about the other four families? I feel 100 times safer in Bangkok. They actually have real law enforcement there, not a toy police dept. Please wake up.

Edited October 26, 2014 by spidermike007

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 26 Oct 2014 - 01:01, said:

Here's my suggestion of the day: Since everybody knows who did it, have Rupert Murdoch or some other UK tabloid media baron offer 10 million baht or some such for the exclusive story rights to anyone who is willing to break ranks with the extended collusive cover-up and come forward with direct evidence as to who perpetrated these crimes.

Unfortunately the "News of the World" is no longer in existence, because if it was, they would!

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

From http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

But then for some unknown reason the investigation change course. Leave you to guess why.

Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

What happened to Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen ? Inactive post? Big brown envelope?

Seven days after he change the investigation track from arresting the true perpetrators

and shift into the scapegoat mode :

Lt Gen Panya Mamen moves upstairs to Assistant Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764608-name-of-new-phuket-police-chief-confirmed/

Is this message clear enough ?

We read this.

Now we re asking where is he REALLY - and the other bloke ?

Maybe taking their new S class Mercedes for a drive?

[IslandLover]

jayjayjayjay, on 26 Oct 2014 - 05:25, said:

lucpez, on 26 Oct 2014 - 02:01, said:

jayjayjayjay, on 24 Oct 2014 - 19:00, said:

lucpez, on 24 Oct 2014 - 15:44, said:

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

A completely stupid post. If they are guitly what will you say then. "Oh people I was wrong, my appologies to all the good operaters of guest houses and hotels for the last twenty years, my bad". Social media is faceless and yet powerful. For sure pressure the BIB, but I think it's pretty pathetic to add salt to the wounds of innocent business owners and operators surely suffering in the shadow of this horid event.

"If they are guilty" ... if you have been following closely the case you should now that statement makes no sense. Social media power and loss of tourism revenues are the only reason why Scotland Yard is let in. And the only hope to reform this rotten and corrupted system.

Your post is stupid. An observer from Scotland Yard has been invited to obviously quell the likes of your posts, let's see what the report-out yields. It does not make your post any more correct. There are many aspects to this case that are exceptional, one being these are Rankine people, particularly hated by Burmese! It does not make them Saints but more likely hated by everyone now! I stand neutral, but I detest hate posts like your recommendation, which it clearly is.

It is only the Rohingya people from Rakhine State that are hated by the Burmese in general. The 2 Burmese suspects are not Rohingya. Apparently their interpreter appointed by the RTP, who also performed the function of interrogator/torturer, is a Rohingya (the banana pancake man). This fact would cause conflict in itself. I wonder what has happened to Mr. Banana Pancake Man now, since he obviously has no work permit and is officially stateless?

[jdinasia]

No work permit? Officially stateless?

I was unaware that either of those 2 statements had been made in the press.

[mcm991]

For about the 50th time, the two charged in this case had never had their DNA tested prior to the match... explained both on numerous times on this board and in the press and by the police. How do you make such comments about the case when you seem to know so little about it?

Not to mention police already wasted enough time investigating the headman's son because of rumor and it turned out he was not even on the island at the time and was in Bangkok.

So you think the police have 'wasted enough time investigating the headman's son' ..... I find your judgement on this interesting.

I don't think they wasted any time at all investigating this lad. There is enough circumstantial evidence to have a very close look at this boy on the night in question and not just believe the fairy stories thrown in their direction.

Nothing more than a bit of dodgy CCTV that could be taken anytime. I've not seen anything from the University at all that backs him up despite what his lawyer said. Not to mention his classmates that have reported that he showed up late with injuries.

Any investigation that was serious in solving the crime (truthfully) would not have given him such an easy pass. Too many unanswered questions and too many clues that he was not really where he said he was.

The police themselves had evidence that placed him at the crime scene at the time of the murders.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

(I like this article.... I'll post it again. Read it. Read what the Chief policeman said...... Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen. Then read it again just to make sure you understand it.)

Quote: "He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

Given all that........ why the sudden change of heart with almost no follow up.

If he was in Bangkok all the time..... great. But given the circumstances....... any responsible investigator would have a proper look at it all. You seem to think that they have wasted enough time already. I don't think they even wanted to scratch the surface.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels. First you claim police are covering up for the kid because of fear and power from his family but had no problem accusing him early on (your very dated link) in the investigation when they focused on numerous people including the farang friend who they said had bloody pants in his suitcase. Of course the people not living in fantasy world know the police ended up ruling these suspects out because things were not as the seemed including the fact they verified this kid was not on the island when the murders took place. You somehow are being incredibly silly basing your nonsense on things you don't know since were not part of the investigation and then going on about other BS you heard online from other silly folks.

Even in your dated link it clearly states he is a headmans son and police clearly have no problem of accusing him and even saying so publicly ... just like they did with others early on before eliminating them as suspects.

I've been in this business a long time JTJ.... and I assure you that my logic is not flawed.

My 'dated' link is probably the best link to post as it was directly after the crime was committed and before the water started to be muddied.

This boy was THE PRIME SUSPECT in a brutal murder.

I'm simply saying that he was cleared of all wrong doing WAY TOO QUICKLY.

You are the one putting silly words in my mouth.

A competant investigation would have followed all the many leads surrounding his whereabouts and alibis for the time in question. That could never be concluded in the time it took for him to be cleared.

As the prime suspect in the case, he should have been compelled to provide DNA as a matter of course - even if he was cleared later.

Don't confuse the issue by bringing up a lot of irrelevant nonsence. He was cleared in a matter of hours after his lawyer made a little speech.

They verified that he was not on the island at the time of the murders.

That is just not possible to do with any degree of certainty - if the truth is your goal. I would expext that if that was in fact the conclusion - that investigation alone would have taken weeks to establish.

[JohnThailandJohn]

For about the 50th time, the two charged in this case had never had their DNA tested prior to the match... explained both on numerous times on this board and in the press and by the police. How do you make such comments about the case when you seem to know so little about it?

Not to mention police already wasted enough time investigating the headman's son because of rumor and it turned out he was not even on the island at the time and was in Bangkok.

So you think the police have 'wasted enough time investigating the headman's son' ..... I find your judgement on this interesting.

I don't think they wasted any time at all investigating this lad. There is enough circumstantial evidence to have a very close look at this boy on the night in question and not just believe the fairy stories thrown in their direction.

Nothing more than a bit of dodgy CCTV that could be taken anytime. I've not seen anything from the University at all that backs him up despite what his lawyer said. Not to mention his classmates that have reported that he showed up late with injuries.

Any investigation that was serious in solving the crime (truthfully) would not have given him such an easy pass. Too many unanswered questions and too many clues that he was not really where he said he was.

The police themselves had evidence that placed him at the crime scene at the time of the murders.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

(I like this article.... I'll post it again. Read it. Read what the Chief policeman said...... Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen. Then read it again just to make sure you understand it.)

Quote: "He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

Given all that........ why the sudden change of heart with almost no follow up.

If he was in Bangkok all the time..... great. But given the circumstances....... any responsible investigator would have a proper look at it all. You seem to think that they have wasted enough time already. I don't think they even wanted to scratch the surface.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels. First you claim police are covering up for the kid because of fear and power from his family but had no problem accusing him early on (your very dated link) in the investigation when they focused on numerous people including the farang friend who they said had bloody pants in his suitcase. Of course the people not living in fantasy world know the police ended up ruling these suspects out because things were not as the seemed including the fact they verified this kid was not on the island when the murders took place. You somehow are being incredibly silly basing your nonsense on things you don't know since were not part of the investigation and then going on about other BS you heard online from other silly folks.

Even in your dated link it clearly states he is a headmans son and police clearly have no problem of accusing him and even saying so publicly ... just like they did with others early on before eliminating them as suspects.

I've been in this business a long time JTJ.... and I assure you that my logic is not flawed.

My 'dated' link is probably the best link to post as it was directly after the crime was committed and before the water started to be muddied.

This boy was THE PRIME SUSPECT in a brutal murder.

I'm simply saying that he was cleared of all wrong doing WAY TOO QUICKLY.

You are the one putting silly words in my mouth.

A competant investigation would have followed all the many leads surrounding his whereabouts and alibis for the time in question. That could never be concluded in the time it took for him to be cleared.

As the prime suspect in the case, he should have been compelled to provide DNA as a matter of course - even if he was cleared later.

Don't confuse the issue by bringing up a lot of irrelevant nonsence. He was cleared in a matter of hours after his lawyer made a little speech.

They verified that he was not on the island at the time of the murders.

That is just not possible to do with any degree of certainty - if the truth is your goal. I would expext that if that was in fact the conclusion - that investigation alone would have taken weeks to establish.

All that you proved with your link is police are not scared of this family.

Edited October 27, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[bannork]

In reference to the latest claims on social media that after the murders the supects split into 2 groups taking 2 speedboats, if that was the case why on earth would they not take the bodies with them to dump at sea? Surely that would have been a lot easier that leaving them very near the ac bar?

I can only think maybe they were afraid of witnesses seeing them carry the bodies, but the speedboats were reported to have left very early, dawn or pre dawn.

[Johnsen]

Of course try finding 'little duck' now. Supposedly already burned and sitting at the bottom of the ocean. At least that is the word on the street here in Koh Toa. Apparently this isn't the first time of zm eery official silence, it is according to the locals the first time anyone has ever fought back. Usually people leave scared for their lives. Problem go away. This time social media has the power players making it up as they go along. Never happen before they say with a wry little smile..

[Rykbanlor]

JohnThailandJohn,

You are working very hard me boy. You accuse others of deflecting and ignoring pertinent facts, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Keep floundering mate. The sad thing is that the truth may never come out, and that will be a win for you.

[StealthEnergiser]

Can I ask everyone would you let you child go on vacation to the island now? I hope you all reply even JTJ and JDINASIA, will be interesting what the replies are.

Of course, I certainly have no problem at all with my kids or myself going to a place where a murder happened. Murders happen everywhere and in fact this is the only reported incident ever on that island. People die all the time on the highways too due to no fault of their own but we all still drive. Going to this island is safer than many other big ones like Phuket and certainly more so than a big city like Bangkok even though Bangkok is extremely safe give its sized compared to many other cities around the world.

Even the much smaller Vatican has crime and has had a murder .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Vatican_City

I hope you educate your children better than that and make them aware of high dangers areas (or do you make them believe in santa claus also)

Edited October 27, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[Rykbanlor]

Another non-fact from JTJ, that this murder is the only incident ever recorded. WRONG.

edit: ever recorded on Koh Tao

Edited October 27, 2014 by Rykbanlor

[JohnThailandJohn]

JohnThailandJohn,

You are working very hard me boy. You accuse others of deflecting and ignoring pertinent facts, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Keep floundering mate. The sad thing is that the truth may never come out, and that will be a win for you.

Actually it is very likely the truth will come out but you simply won't believe it because it is not what you want to believe.

[Rykbanlor]

JohnThailandJohn,

You are working very hard me boy. You accuse others of deflecting and ignoring pertinent facts, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Keep floundering mate. The sad thing is that the truth may never come out, and that will be a win for you.

Actually it is very likely the truth will come out but you simply won't believe it because it is not what you want to believe.

I don't WANT to believe anything mate. You accuse others of hating on the rich and powerful and that we want it to be these guys.

Sorry bucko, but that isn't my angle. I am basing what I believe on what I've seen. You are the only one who seems to have an unquenchable need to deflect any suspicion away from certain folks.

I'll admit I may be wrong, and the Burmese might even be guilty, but you can't admit that you might be wrong, and of course thats not your aim.

[JohnThailandJohn]

JohnThailandJohn,

You are working very hard me boy. You accuse others of deflecting and ignoring pertinent facts, yet that is exactly what you are doing.

Keep floundering mate. The sad thing is that the truth may never come out, and that will be a win for you.

Actually it is very likely the truth will come out but you simply won't believe it because it is not what you want to believe.

I don't WANT to believe anything mate. You accuse others of hating on the rich and powerful and that we want it to be these guys.

Sorry bucko, but that isn't my angle. I am basing what I believe on what I've seen. You are the only one who seems to have an unquenchable need to deflect any suspicion away from certain folks.

I'll admit I may be wrong, and the Burmese might even be guilty, but you can't admit that you might be wrong, and of course thats not your aim.

If the DNA didn't match these two then I would be open to looking at others. The same DNA tests that cleared many other Burmese and the Farang friend matched these two who were in and around the scene at the time and these same suspects where they found a victim's phone at their home.

Edited October 27, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Another non-fact from JTJ, that this murder is the only incident ever recorded. WRONG.

edit: ever recorded on Koh Tao

I stand corrected, I had misread something that talked of this being the only tourist murder but I see a local shot another local over a decade ago.

[mcm991]

So you think the police have 'wasted enough time investigating the headman's son' ..... I find your judgement on this interesting.

I don't think they wasted any time at all investigating this lad. There is enough circumstantial evidence to have a very close look at this boy on the night in question and not just believe the fairy stories thrown in their direction.

Nothing more than a bit of dodgy CCTV that could be taken anytime. I've not seen anything from the University at all that backs him up despite what his lawyer said. Not to mention his classmates that have reported that he showed up late with injuries.

Any investigation that was serious in solving the crime (truthfully) would not have given him such an easy pass. Too many unanswered questions and too many clues that he was not really where he said he was.

The police themselves had evidence that placed him at the crime scene at the time of the murders.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

(I like this article.... I'll post it again. Read it. Read what the Chief policeman said...... Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen. Then read it again just to make sure you understand it.)

Quote: "He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

Given all that........ why the sudden change of heart with almost no follow up.

If he was in Bangkok all the time..... great. But given the circumstances....... any responsible investigator would have a proper look at it all. You seem to think that they have wasted enough time already. I don't think they even wanted to scratch the surface.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels. First you claim police are covering up for the kid because of fear and power from his family but had no problem accusing him early on (your very dated link) in the investigation when they focused on numerous people including the farang friend who they said had bloody pants in his suitcase. Of course the people not living in fantasy world know the police ended up ruling these suspects out because things were not as the seemed including the fact they verified this kid was not on the island when the murders took place. You somehow are being incredibly silly basing your nonsense on things you don't know since were not part of the investigation and then going on about other BS you heard online from other silly folks.

Even in your dated link it clearly states he is a headmans son and police clearly have no problem of accusing him and even saying so publicly ... just like they did with others early on before eliminating them as suspects.

I've been in this business a long time JTJ.... and I assure you that my logic is not flawed.

My 'dated' link is probably the best link to post as it was directly after the crime was committed and before the water started to be muddied.

This boy was THE PRIME SUSPECT in a brutal murder.

I'm simply saying that he was cleared of all wrong doing WAY TOO QUICKLY.

You are the one putting silly words in my mouth.

A competant investigation would have followed all the many leads surrounding his whereabouts and alibis for the time in question. That could never be concluded in the time it took for him to be cleared.

As the prime suspect in the case, he should have been compelled to provide DNA as a matter of course - even if he was cleared later.

Don't confuse the issue by bringing up a lot of irrelevant nonsence. He was cleared in a matter of hours after his lawyer made a little speech.

They verified that he was not on the island at the time of the murders.

That is just not possible to do with any degree of certainty - if the truth is your goal. I would expext that if that was in fact the conclusion - that investigation alone would have taken weeks to establish.

All that you proved with your link is police are not scared of this family.

No... I don't think it proved that at all.

I confess to being far more interested in your role here than some snotty kid with powerful connections.

You have taken on the role of defending the RTP, 24/7 for well over a month now. IMO, that has crossed over into pathological territory. I'm curious as to why.

I actually think that you have assumed the role of 'devils advocate' to forward and strive for truth and justice and all that is good.

Your posts actually sustain threads here that would otherwise have withered on the vine ages ago.

By continually being an a$$hole, you are actually promoting the cause of justice by stimulating the 'forces of good'.

If this is true - and I believe it to be the case ....... then I take my hat off to you. A masterful manipulation of Social Media.

Let's all hope for truth and justice to prevail.