What are the benefits of "permanent residency"

[dbrenn]

IMHO, it is a waste of money if you are married to a Thai and working. Much better to go straight for Citizenship.

No. It's only better if you want citizenship. If you don't then PR is better.

Unless you are from a country that forbids dual nationality, there really is no downside to having Thai citizenship. It allows you to completely disappear into the Thai system, affording you all the ownership and working rights of a Thai, and it also allows you to leave Thailand and come back again years later without having to get new entry permits on your PR. When people try to discriminate against you, it let's you say things like "I'm Thai, just like you" and "Our King approved my Thai nationality, so who are you to argue with that?"

If you live in Thailand, citizenship removes entirely all the bureaucratic obstacles and other irritations that foreigners face.

Having been a PR in Thailand before I was a citizen, there's not a single (valid) reason I can think of why PR is better, or why anyone would want to forego the rights of full citizenship in their place of residence and adopted home.

Edited January 13, 2015 by dbrenn

[prakhonchai nick]

IMHO, it is a waste of money if you are married to a Thai and working. Much better to go straight for Citizenship.

No. It's only better if you want citizenship. If you don't then PR is better.

Unless you are from a country that forbids dual nationality, there really is no downside to having Thai citizenship. It allows you to completely disappear into the Thai system, affording you all the ownership and working rights of a Thai, and it also allows you to leave Thailand and come back again years later without having to get new entry permits on your PR. When people try to discriminate against you, it let's you say things like "I'm Thai, just like you" and "Our King approved my Thai nationality, so who are you to argue with that?"

If you live in Thailand, citizenship removes entirely all the bureaucratic obstacles and other irritations that foreigners face.

Having been a PR in Thailand before I was a citizen, there's not a single (valid) reason I can think of why PR is better, or why anyone would not wish to forego the rights of full citizenship in their place of residence and adopted home.

I agree entirely.

However having been through all the hoops to obtain residency 25 years ago, I can't be bothered now at my age to go for citizenship

[johnh869]

Well, yes, anything is possible of course, however I have held PR for over 40 years (together with a lifetime, transferable Work Permit) and although in that time Fees and some other requirements to obtain a NEW PR have changed there has never been even a hint of changes to affect existing PR holders - but requirements for other types of Visa and / or Extensions have changed several times - so all-in-all I think we're pretty safe!

Re the Re-entry Permit: If leaving the Country one must obtain an Endorsement, stamped into the Certificate of Residence, costing Baht 1,900 and valid for 1 year, plus a Re-entry Permit stamped into the Passport - Single Entry costs Baht 1,900.- Multi-entry costs Baht 3,800.- and is also valid for 1 year; however if one does not leave the Kingdom there is absolutely no need for any contact with "Officialdom" whatsoever except for the 5 year extension of the Alien Registration Book at the local Police Station (NOT the Certificate of Residence as I said earlier - my apologies for the error.).

Patrick

Right on brother! I got mine in May 1996 and haven't left Thailand since 2002. The above info is 100% correct! However, I would add that an official at the old soi suan plu office said that a new photo (colored) in the inside front cover of the Certificate of Residence should be added every five years. I have one new color photo that was added in my Certificate of Residence a while back. I have four blank pages left in my Certificate of Residence. However, I might not ever leave Thailand again.....so what the heck!!!!!

Just over 1 year ago, I had to obtain a new PR book, as my original was full. It was over 20 years old. A new photo was placed in the new "white" book. Nothing was mentioned about the fact that I had never renewed the original photo. Note that a new photo is required every 5 years when renewing the Alien registration.

Thanks for the info! One thing that ticked me off many years ago is that the airport immigration officers wasted two of my blank pages in my resident book by putting one exit/entry stamp in them. The endorsement stamp almost takes up a whole page! I have three fully blank ones and two partial blank pages left. At one time you could get pages added free in only about 15 minutes at soi suan plu! That was the good old days! Now you need a new book...what a bummer!

[prakhonchai nick]

My biggest problem at the moment is with the Alien registration Book.

Nobody at the local or provincial police station can/will assist in obtaining a new book. Mine is full, No room for a new photo next year.

Immigration say it is not their concern

Can anyone assist please.

[johnh869]

My biggest problem at the moment is with the Alien registration Book.

Nobody at the local or provincial police station can/will assist in obtaining a new book. Mine is full, No room for a new photo next year.

Immigration say it is not their concern

Can anyone assist please.

Hi Nick....I was just going to write about that..Ha Ha... I live in Sattahip and they said last time I renewed that they can use the blank page(s) just inside the front cover if needed. I've had my alien book for about 20 years now and it looks like they can place 2-3 more photos in my book using that method. However, there's no place to write the photo details? I would have your police station call the police station in Sattahip and contact K. Ladda who will verify this I'm sure. The damn book looks like it is fifty years old anyway! They should give us a card like the Thai national ID card but that would be too logical. As I always say "You can tell a Thai but not much"! Hope this helps.

Edited January 14, 2015 by johnh869

[prakhonchai nick]

My biggest problem at the moment is with the Alien registration Book.

Nobody at the local or provincial police station can/will assist in obtaining a new book. Mine is full, No room for a new photo next year.

Immigration say it is not their concern

Can anyone assist please.

Hi Nick....I was just going to write about that..Ha Ha... I live in Sattahip and they said last time I renewed that they can use the blank space inside the front cover if needed. I've had my alien book about 20 years now and it looks like they can place 2-3 more photos in my book. Ask them about this procedure. Have them call the police station in Sattahip and contact K. Ladda who will verify this I'm sure. Hope this helps.

Thanks John

Just looked at the book and have a blank page (2 sides) Last time I added a 4th photo at the blank space at the bottom of the main page, by copying the wording and sticking it in place. I will do this again on the blank pages. Should be good for 4 more photos, which will likely see me out, or put me beyond caring!

[johnh869]

My biggest problem at the moment is with the Alien registration Book.

Nobody at the local or provincial police station can/will assist in obtaining a new book. Mine is full, No room for a new photo next year.

Immigration say it is not their concern

Can anyone assist please.

Hi Nick....I was just going to write about that..Ha Ha... I live in Sattahip and they said last time I renewed that they can use the blank space inside the front cover if needed. I've had my alien book about 20 years now and it looks like they can place 2-3 more photos in my book. Ask them about this procedure. Have them call the police station in Sattahip and contact K. Ladda who will verify this I'm sure. Hope this helps.

Thanks John

Just looked at the book and have a blank page (2 sides) Last time I added a 4th photo at the blank space at the bottom of the main page, by copying the wording and sticking it in place. I will do this again on the blank pages. Should be good for 4 more photos, which will likely see me out, or put me beyond caring!

Roger that!

[Arkady]

^{I am wondering why you guys are having problems with adding photos in your alien books. I was told to add a second one after the first 15 years. The policeman said you should add a new one every 10 years. I have seen books belonging to elderly Chinese who never made citizen in the police station with lots of photographs in then and literally falling to pieces, almost unrecognisable as alien books. Those Chinese must have taken the law at face value and carried their alien books everywhere as ID. Maybe they don't have passports and use the Thai one year passport for PRs to travel. I have seen Chinese applying for this passport at CW but I think only countries in the region acept it. There seems to be no way of getting a new alien book unless you lose or destroy it. Even then they might just cancel your PR as a punishment for doing the unthinkable. The blanks were probably printed in 1927 when they introduced the first immigration act and no one today knows how to print something so shoddy and poorly designed. So they have to make the stock last by grantin very few new PRs and not allowing replacement books.}

[dbrenn]

^{I am wondering why you guys are having problems with adding photos in your alien books. I was told to add a second one after the first 15 years. The policeman said you should add a new one every 10 years. I have seen books belonging to elderly Chinese who never made citizen in the police station with lots of photographs in then and literally falling to pieces, almost unrecognisable as alien books. Those Chinese must have taken the law at face value and carried their alien books everywhere as ID. Maybe they don't have passports and use the Thai one year passport for PRs to travel. I have seen Chinese applying for this passport at CW but I think only countries in the region acept it. There seems to be no way of getting a new alien book unless you lose or destroy it. Even then they might just cancel your PR as a punishment for doing the unthinkable. The blanks were probably printed in 1927 when they introduced the first immigration act and no one today knows how to print something so shoddy and poorly designed. So they have to make the stock last by grantin very few new PRs and not allowing replacement books.}

It's bizarre that they don't give you a new book.

I remember mine - it looked like a museum piece and was falling to bits from the day I first got it.

[johnh869]

Well....we all know this is a strange country.....Ha! Ha! Just give us PRs an alien card with our new photo every five years and be done with it....Oh that's too logical isn't it!

Edited January 18, 2015 by johnh869

[prakhonchai nick]

BORDER PROBLEMS WITH PERMANENT RESIDENCY

I have just returned from a trip to Cambodia using the Chong Chom border crossing in Surin province

As usual, the immigration officer is unfamiliar with anything other than a passport, and leaving Thailand took over 15 minutes whilst he pondered what to do.

But worse was to come. Upon returning, I handed in my 3 books )passport, PR book and Alien Book) + the arival half of the TM6 (which was stamped on the way out. The officer spent 10 minutes just looking at the books, then thrust the TM6 arrival card at me and demanded I fill in a new complete form. I assured him that just the arrival half was normal and correct`. and eventually he accepted and stamped my books. But then he took them all back from me and went through them all again. Time spent 20 mins, by which time a large queue of frustrated foreigners and queue jumping Thais were behind me.

I have had a similar situation at Don Muang airport, where 3 senior women immigration officers were called all looked and considered what had to be done. Eventually they stamped where I told them stamps were needed. All at DM done with a smile unlike Chong Chom!

Immigration issue Resident permits -don't they train staff in handling them at borders? Seemingly not!

Edited January 25, 2015 by prakhonchai nick

[dbrenn]

BORDER PROBLEMS WITH PERMANENT RESIDENCY

I have just returned from a trip to Cambodia using the Chong Chom border crossing in Surin province

As usual, the immigration officer is unfamiliar with anything other than a passport, and leaving Thailand took over 15 minutes whilst he pondered what to do.

But worse was to come. Upon returning, I handed in my 3 books )passport, PR book and Alien Book) + the arival half of the TM6 (which was stamped on the way out. The officer spent 10 minutes just looking at the books, then thrust the TM6 arrival card at me and demanded I fill in a new complete form. I assured him that just the arrival half was normal and correct`. and eventually he accepted and stamped my books. But then he took them all back from me and went through them all again. Time spent 20 mins, by which time a large queue of frustrated foreigners and queue jumping Thais were behind me.

I have had a similar situation at Don Muang airport, where 3 senior women immigration officers were called all looked and considered what had to be done. Eventually they stamped where I told them stamps were needed. All at DM done with a smile unlike Chong Chom!

Immigration issue Resident permits -don't they train staff in handling them at borders? Seemingly not!

Some of those immigration staff seem to go out of their way to be rude. Others are so nice and polite.

When I was a PR, I only used to present my passport and certificate of residence at borders - I was never asked to show my Alien Registration Book.

Do you have to show all three these days, or is doing so adding to the confusion?

[prakhonchai nick]

Some of those immigration staff seem to go out of their way to be rude. Others are so nice and polite.

When I was a PR, I only used to present my passport and certificate of residence at borders - I was never asked to show my Alien Registration Book.

Do you have to show all three these days, or is doing so adding to the confusion?

On the only occasion I did not present the Alien registration book I was asked for it.

Most times they just glance at it, concentrating on the PR book and the passport

[thedemon]

When departing at the airport it always seems to take the officer 2 or 3 times longer to process me than other non-PR travellers. At times I've noticed a slight look of exasperation on the officers face once seeing my residence permit and even had one apologise and say that he didn't know how to process it then passed me over to the officer on the next counter.

Arriving though is very quick so obviously most of the data entry is done on departure.

Incidently I discovered that there is no need to fill in the visa field on the arrival card. I had assumed that I should enter the re-entry/endorsement number there as I had previously done with a non-immigrant visa. However one year the number written in my passport was almost illegible and a couple of the numbers were ambiguous. On one entry I wrote one number and the next entry a different one. Seeing that it didn't make any difference after that I have always simply left it blank and the officers never comment on that or write it in themselves.

You definitely don't need the Alien Book when travelling. In fact for me the only time I ever need that book is once a year at immigration when renewing the re-entry/endorsement, Otherwise it just sits in my safe. That's a good thing because it was starting to fall apart from the day I got it.

[p_brownstone]

Holding PR can, perversely, cause some problems when travelling within Thailand and staying at Hotels.

Normally at Check-in a Foreigner must show a valid Passport with a valid Visa or other Entry stamp, however some years ago I had to renew my Passport and of course as a PR there is no entry information in there now because I have not left the Country since.

Several times when checking in at Hotels and I show my Certificate of Residence, quite often the Reception clerk will say "I do not know this Document, must show Passport"; the signal for a frustrated sigh from yours truly as I hand over my virgin Passport and I know the suspicious looks and questions will begin as soon as they open it.

Patrick

[prakhonchai nick]

Holding PR can, perversely, cause some problems when travelling within Thailand and staying at Hotels.

Normally at Check-in a Foreigner must show a valid Passport with a valid Visa or other Entry stamp, however some years ago I had to renew my Passport and of course as a PR there is no entry information in there now because I have not left the Country since.

Several times when checking in at Hotels and I show my Certificate of Residence, quite often the Reception clerk will say "I do not know this Document, must show Passport"; the signal for a frustrated sigh from yours truly as I hand over my virgin Passport and I know the suspicious looks and questions will begin as soon as they open it.

Patrick

Some hotel receptionists like to note down the TM6 number, and of course we don't have one. Yet more confusion!

Edited January 26, 2015 by ubonjoe
moved reply from quoted text

[Arkady]

According to Immigration your alien book is not needed on leaving and entering the country. I have never taken it with me. It is so fragile that I now take it out of the safe as rarely as possible.

Fun and games with Thai hotel receptionists. I got fed up with being asked for my TM number and started just giving them my driving licence a couple of years back. Funnily enough none have complained about that or asked for a TM number. It seems to be only a foreign passport that prompts them to ask for that. I too presented my alien book once and got the same panicked reaction as Patrick. Banks routinely refuse an alien book as ID and one told me that alien books could only be used by elderly Chinese. Many Thai Chinese remember an elderly relative having one and assume they were only meant for Chinese.

[LivinLOS]

Just to backtrack a little to the earlier "why get PR" questions..

One thing no one really has brought up, and to me is a huge deal, is the fact that this is entirely self reliant and self contained. You are not dependant on anyone else for your continued stay in the kingdom.

My first Thai wife died.. And you can be in a position with a legal visa class to remain, owning homes vehicles and a full lifestyle.. And in a single day everything changes and suddenly your some undesirable border hopper, searching for loopholes, ED classes, or the kind of other stuff you forgot about years ago. Once someone has really settled here this is a huge shock and very unsettling. Of course divorce does the same and lets face is isnt so uncommon.

Its in part due to this why I feel it is so unfair that those of us who wont be working in Thailand, have no route to this security.

As to the guys claiming 100 or 200k is big money for nothing.. You have to be crazy.. I know maybe you have been here so long you have adjusted to Thai economics but the fee is a drop in the bucket. I would pay 5x the fee gladly to secure it. Contrast with a mate going through a divorce who I am suggesting the route of elite visa, at 500k for just 5 years, to really see how saying under 100k for a married guy to secure his lifetime future here is fairly insignificant.

PR citizenship, I would do whatever hoops they want of me, but the the fact is without working here for years on end, none of these are remotely possible. The whole system is kept as a non starter.

[johnh869]

Holding PR can, perversely, cause some problems when travelling within Thailand and staying at Hotels.

Normally at Check-in a Foreigner must show a valid Passport with a valid Visa or other Entry stamp, however some years ago I had to renew my Passport and of course as a PR there is no entry information in there now because I have not left the Country since.

Several times when checking in at Hotels and I show my Certificate of Residence, quite often the Reception clerk will say "I do not know this Document, must show Passport"; the signal for a frustrated sigh from yours truly as I hand over my virgin Passport and I know the suspicious looks and questions will begin as soon as they open it.

Patrick

Same as me...Haven't went anywhere for 12+ years and the BBL teller looked at my passport and said it was empty? I said your right!

[Peter58]

The most important page in your Residence Permit is Page 21!! Used frequently when dealing with puzzled officials!

[Maestro]

What does page 21 of the Residence Permit say?

[p_brownstone]

What does page 21 of the Residence Permit say?

Quote

1) A Residential Certificate is of permanent validity but it automatically expires, when the holder leaves Thailand unless an endorsement has been made and sealed on the document by a competent Immigration Officer at an Immigration office before departure. If the holder of a, Residential Certificate so endorsed returns to Thailand within one year from the date of endorsement such Residential Certificate shall be considered still valid

2) Holders of Residential Certificates must obtain Alien Registration Certificates from a competent official at the Police station in the district where he or she resides, with in 7 days from the date of permission to become an immigrant.

Unquote

Don't really see how that would be of use when "dealing with puzzled officials" however.

Patrick

Edited August 11, 2015 by p_brownstone

[Soutpeel]

PR is essentially just akin to paying for a lifetime of your annual extensions fees upfront. There are essentially no other meaningful benefits besides no longer requiring a visa, and being able to boast about it

What a load of rubbish you write, PR in any country gives the holder unhindered right of abode and is a legal migrant in that country, you cant even compare a visa / extension versus PR you have no idea what your talking about

Usually the ones who are most bitter towards people who have PR are the ones who would never qualify anyway as your post perfectly illustrates and for the record i am neither PR or a Thai citizen

[sas_cars]

PR is essentially just akin to paying for a lifetime of your annual extensions fees upfront. There are essentially no other meaningful benefits besides no longer requiring a visa, and being able to boast about it

What a load of rubbish you write, PR in any country gives the holder unhindered right of abode and is a legal migrant in that country, you cant even compare a visa / extension versus PR you have no idea what your talking about

Usually the ones who are most bitter towards people who have PR are the ones who would never qualify anyway as your post perfectly illustrates and for the record i am neither PR or a Thai citizen

I am a PR holder and I beg to differ. So far I haven't seen PR has made my life easier in any way, other than visa. There are practically no benefits whatsoever for a PR holder comparing a non PR holder. No work benefits, no business benefits, no property benefits, nothing at all. You only get peace of mind that they can't kick you out, plus it's a pre requisite for citizenship, which is my ultimate goal, since I m not married to a thai.

[THAIJAMES]

PR is essentially just akin to paying for a lifetime of your annual extensions fees upfront. There are essentially no other meaningful benefits besides no longer requiring a visa, and being able to boast about it

What a load of rubbish you write, PR in any country gives the holder unhindered right of abode and is a legal migrant in that country, you cant even compare a visa / extension versus PR you have no idea what your talking about

Usually the ones who are most bitter towards people who have PR are the ones who would never qualify anyway as your post perfectly illustrates and for the record i am neither PR or a Thai citizen

I am a PR holder and I beg to differ. So far I haven't seen PR has made my life easier in any way, other than visa. There are practically no benefits whatsoever for a PR holder comparing a non PR holder. No work benefits, no business benefits, no property benefits, nothing at all. You only get peace of mind that they can't kick you out, plus it's a pre requisite for citizenship, which is my ultimate goal, since I m not married to a thai.

I completely agree. I am also a PR holder.

[Rhys]

I'm still on the fence about this... the benefits appears to be a paper chase...

[sas_cars]

I'm still on the fence about this... the benefits appears to be a paper chase...

I m a PR holder and as mentioned above, no practical benefit of PR whatsoever other than the lifelong visa and being prerequisite for applying thai citizenship for people not married to thais.

[THAIJAMES]

Before I got my PR, the scrutiny at Immigration and the anxiety involved and the process of preparing all the paper work to renew my business visa were a big hassle.  Always 2-3 days of anxiety and wasted time every year.  If you are well established in Thailand with a business and a home.  PR gives you a certain piece of mind.  No more having to worry that immigration will not to renew your visa.  (Which happened to me one year in the past when my business was not making a profit for that year)

Other than that, yes I agree not many benefits, except maybe you are taken more seriously in some cases when dealing with government officials.

The cost of getting the PR was not an issue for me, but the time involved and the hassles involved in getting PR (for me at least) may not make it worthwhile for some. 

 

[YetAnother]

On 11/3/2014 at 10:39 AM, KhnomKhnom said:

This is a very innocuous way for a nation to keep track of its long stay foreigners

not at all saying anything you say is incorrect; curious tho about the online 90 day reporting; seems at odds with the address thing