New rule limiting the number of 30 day visa exemption entries to six only

[ExPratt]

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Are you married to a Thai and did you tell them ?

And what will happen one suspects they will tell you to go and get a proper visa/extension in this case

I recall when this Visa "Crack down" started there were a couple of reports of blokes stating they were in and out on rotation and when asked why they were in and out of Thailand told the Im/O they were married and had family in Thailand, they were told to get an O visa

I got married a few months ago , been with her for years and was in and out of Thailand every month from my work in Malaysia.

[Maestro]

Might be simplistic....but two alternatives would be nice.

Make the rules for visa exempt stamp known to all including io or just do away with visa exempt stamps.

I love playing sport, even darts, but I like to know the rules and have every umpire apply them according to the written rules

Which part of the rules is not clear to you?

[jacksam]

Might be simplistic....but two alternatives would be nice.

Make the rules for visa exempt stamp known to all including io or just do away with visa exempt stamps.

I love playing sport, even darts, but I like to know the rules and have every umpire apply them according to the written rules

Which part of the rules is not clear to you?

Have you read ALL THE POSTS ....am I the only one worried or not clear on the rules. Stick to op and off my back.

I am responding to op ...some people do not.

[Maestro]

Jacksam, I see that I misunderstood your post. You did not say or imply that the rules were not clear to you; by suggesting that the rules for tourist visa exemption should be made known to all you implied that these rules have not been made known to you.

These rules are in Ministerial Regulations issued under the authority of Section 12 paragraph 1 of the Immigration Act. All Ministerial Regulations are published in the Royal Thai Government Gazette and by this means "made known to all". Unfortunately, I have no link to the relevant regulations, but there is this information on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs with reference to them:

TOURIST VISA EXEMPTION

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements dated 1 October B.E. 2545 (2002), 20 December B.E. 2545 (2002), 18 October B.E. 2547 (2004), 6 May B.E. 2548 (2005), and 23 June 2554 (2011), passport holders from 48 countries and 1 special administrative region - Hong Kong SAR - are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days on each visit. If such foreigners enter the Kingdom at the immigration checkpoints which border neighboring countries, they will be allowed to stay for 15 days each time, except Malaysian nationals who cross the borderline from Malaysia whose granted period of stay will not exceed 30 days each time.

- Please note that Tourist Visa Exemption does not apply to foreigners holding Travel Document for Aliens issued by these countries.

- Foreigners entering Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category must possess adequate finances for the duration of stay in Thailand (i.e., cash 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family).

...

The above information is not quite up-to-date, in that it does not include the latest rule that nationals from seven specific countries are allowed 30 days also when entering on a land border.

[mngmn]

Using the concept of "rules" in a discussion of things Thai can be misleading. The rules are whatever the immigration officer says they are. I knew that the senior officer explaining the "rules"to me was talking total rubbish but was very careful to not even hint at this.

To summarise. "face" is far, far more important than "rules".

Edited November 9, 2014 by mngmn

[paz]

Using the concept of "rules" in a discussion of things Thai can be misleading. The rules are whatever the immigration officer says they are. I knew that the senior officer explaining the "rules"to me was talking total rubbish but was very careful to not even hint at this.

To summarise. "face" is far, far more important than "rules".

That is true during conversations, that are in fact just talk. Then when things becomes serious, rules and laws have to prevail. It's not all to their discretion, and they know that.

[jacksam]

That's great if io all interpret the rules. But what are the rules. There are posts from experts like ubon and others.

By the way those guys are so so helpful. Thank you.

Fact is the op and many others are talking about grey areas. Some members have no problem and others as illustrated above ,have had issues.

OK example....like others I have multiple stamps. Currently on tourist visa. I just landed in hcmc for week. Fly back to bkk in a week. That does my tourist visa.

In Jan 1 I fly AU for few weeks... While there I hope to get a non imm O-A....

Then I have to come back to AU for one week in Feb.

Let's say I don't get oa for some reason...yes I can get a tourist visa.....

OK long post but HERE IS MY QUESTION can you guarantee I can get back on stamp.

And please don't quote rules.

At present Thai embassy in melb has very out of date rules.

When I ask w t f all they say is "rules change,"

[paz]

That's great if io all interpret the rules. But what are the rules. There are posts from experts like ubon and others.

By the way those guys are so so helpful. Thank you.

Fact is the op and many others are talking about grey areas. Some members have no problem and others as illustrated above ,have had issues.

OK example....like others I have multiple stamps. Currently on tourist visa. I just landed in hcmc for week. Fly back to bkk in a week. That does my tourist visa.

In Jan 1 I fly AU for few weeks... While there I hope to get a non imm O-A....

Then I have to come back to AU for one week in Feb.

Let's say I don't get oa for some reason...yes I can get a tourist visa.....

OK long post but HERE IS MY QUESTION can you guarantee I can get back on stamp.

And please don't quote rules.

At present Thai embassy in melb has very out of date rules.

When I ask w t f all they say is "rules change,"

Whatever visa you get, and even without one, you will be allowed in Thailand.

You should worry less, and not be intolerant of people quoting you the rules. That is done to help you - knowledge is power.

The "rules have changed" is just a canned response from clerks to dismiss people and move on.

[mngmn]

Using the concept of "rules" in a discussion of things Thai can be misleading. The rules are whatever the immigration officer says they are. I knew that the senior officer explaining the "rules"to me was talking total rubbish but was very careful to not even hint at this.

To summarise. "face" is far, far more important than "rules".

That is true during conversations, that are in fact just talk. Then when things becomes serious, rules and laws have to prevail. It's not all to their discretion, and they know that.

Respectfully disagree. Thailand is not noted for its rule of law or respect for rules.

[Maestro]

In my opinion, we are looking at three aspects.

The rules

The rules as they are written will always remain the way they are, until they are rewritten.

Guidelines and procedures

These relate to the enforcement of the rules. For situations where the rules do not give enough details, immigration has guidelines and procedures for the officers. Even these sometimes do not cover every little detail and leave some things at the discretion of the officers. Take this example I saw a moment ago: for a one-year extension of stay, the Chiang Mai Office was previously satisfied with, among other things, a copy of only the last extension of stay; now they want copies of all extensions, and other copies that previously were not requested.

Aberrations

For lack of a better word, I call it aberrations, by which I mean a blatant disregard for the rules due to ignorance, incompetence, abuse of authority, etc. The event reported by the OP falls into this category.

[jacksam]

OK ...I will re enter trying for a stamp and will give you a report. Clearly a lot of advice from folk not relying on stamp

[jamra]

Hi All

I arrived i Phuket for the second time recently and have been pulled aside because of multiple entry stamps , I was told that i was not allowed to exceed 90 days in 12 months and note was made in my passport , i then arrived again just one month later , again i was pulled aside and threatened with being denied entry . I pointed out that i have never broken the 30 day waiver although i have many stamps some are for only 1 week etc and one is for 1 day . I don't work in Thailand and never intend too , and i have a condo here where i spend time in-between work , but i clocked up 140 days last year , I read on the Thai Embassy website i can stay 90 days per six months ( 3x 30 ) yet they keep telling me i will not be allowed to enter next time if i turn up without a visa . I don't really want to shell out 500,000 Bhat for an elite Visa because anything less than 180 days here is fine for me and i never go over 30 days anyway . its seems they are definitely clamping down on Visa abusers , but unfortunatley thats putting me in there sites too .

[moe666]

It seems Dm comes up with weird stuff, a friend was questioned about his Thai ability a while back even though he was entering on a multiple entry O-A visa.

[Namplik]

What Thai Embassy website was that? There is no such rule!

[FritsSikkink]

Please let the OP tell me why he got excluded from this new rule. If there was that rule in place for a month (which nobody has read about in official papers) he would be refused.

[mngmn]

Please let the OP tell me why he got excluded from this new rule. If there was that rule in place for a month (which nobody has read about in official papers) he would be refused.

The supervisor told me I was "lucky" to be granted entry this time but would definitely be refused next time.

I think we all agree that this is not an official, published rule. I am certain that in many other countries I could appeal or make a complaint but I feel that doing so in Thailand would only serve to make my situation worse.

I will be leaving again next week (not sure if Don Muang or Swampy) and will talk to immigration at the airport when I leave. However, I have already been reassured once by an immigration officer at the airport that I would not have a problem continuing my current pattern of entries into Thailand.

[mngmn]

In my opinion, we are looking at three aspects.

The rules

The rules as they are written will always remain the way they are, until they are rewritten.

Guidelines and procedures

These relate to the enforcement of the rules. For situations where the rules do not give enough details, immigration has guidelines and procedures for the officers. Even these sometimes do not cover every little detail and leave some things at the discretion of the officers. Take this example I saw a moment ago: for a one-year extension of stay, the Chiang Mai Office was previously satisfied with, among other things, a copy of only the last extension of stay; now they want copies of all extensions, and other copies that previously were not requested.

Aberrations

For lack of a better word, I call it aberrations, by which I mean a blatant disregard for the rules due to ignorance, incompetence, abuse of authority, etc. The event reported by the OP falls into this category.

Rule, guideline, procedure, aberration? For me the outcome is the same!

[mngmn]

What Thai Embassy website was that? There is no such rule!

Does it really matter whether there is rule or not if immigration officers are causing problems for some people entering Thailand on 30 day visa exemptions.

There are rules that you must wear a crash helmet, drive drive on the left had side of the road and never drive on the pavement. Have you ever noticed how well those work?

[Namplik]

Yes it does matter, some Thai embassy websites carry outdated information unfortunately.....

What is your nationality btw?

[mngmn]

Yes it does matter, some Thai embassy websites carry outdated information unfortunately.....

What is your nationality btw?

I would not expect any information provided by Thai government web sites to be 100% accurate! Especially if it is provided in English. Regard it as an overall impression of what you might expect!

Not sure how my nationality is relevant but I prefer not to disclose identifying information. I would be surprised if this forum was not monitored by government agencies. You may have heard of the computer crimes act that can be very broadly applied to online comments.

Edited November 10, 2014 by mngmn

[Namplik]

Off course nationality is relevant, its a fact that some nations can be given a harder time at the immigration gates...Maybe even the color of your skin can be a factor.

[mngmn]

Off course nationality is relevant, its a fact that some nations can be given a harder time at the immigration gates...Maybe even the color of your skin can be a factor.

I have a European nationality and white skin.

[stevenl]

Off course nationality is relevant, its a fact that some nations can be given a harder time at the immigration gates...Maybe even the color of your skin can be a factor.

I have a European nationality and white skin.

Big difference in treatment between Russian and English e.g.

And no, you can not be identified based on your nationality.

Edited November 10, 2014 by stevenl

[mngmn]

Off course nationality is relevant, its a fact that some nations can be given a harder time at the immigration gates...Maybe even the color of your skin can be a factor.

I have a European nationality and white skin.

Big difference in treatment between Russian and English e.g.

And no, you can not be identified based on your nationality.

Some guy complaining on ThaiVisa about his treatment by immigration at DMK Friday evening. Who was on duty? Sure I remember him he was xxx nationality. Just a sec let me check all xxx nationality who came in about xxpm Friday. Yeah there he is. Right little know it all &lt;deleted&gt;, lets fix him for good!

[jamra]

What Thai Embassy website was that? There is no such rule!

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/55

Foreigners who enter Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category and would like to leave and re-enter may only stay for a cumulative duration which does not exceed 90 days and is within a 6-month period from the date of first entry. (Passport or travel document must be valid for at least 6 months after the date of first entry).

I read that as 90 days in any six month period rolling ! , does anyone concur ?

[STUDMEYER]

if anyones interested I can confirm the OPs story.

My wife and I flew into Don Mueang at the end of September 2014. I went through first, my wife second. The lady at immigration made a comment I couldnt make out and laughed a bit to her coworker then seemed to begrudgingly give me a stamp and let me through.

My wife went after me and was stopped. I could see clearly on the immigration computer screen a yellow box had popped up when they swiped her passport.

She was taken into an office and explained that you can only use the visa exemption stamp for a total of 90 days per year with no indication on a hard limit for the number of stamps They allowed her to come in as we were leaving again in 5 days. She had been in and out more times than I had this year, im guessing next time i come in on an expemtion the same will happen to me.

This was at DMK, its the only time anything like this has ever happened to me. We had both been in an out several times this year, although she had a couple more stamps, and another 30-40 days ontop of the time I had in The LOS.

Edit:

I should also mention that neither of us have been back since the yellow box incident.

Some more details - it was a female imm. officer, she called someone over, then took my wife into the office. There were three females in the room with her explaining the situation to her. We assume one of them was the supervisor.

Im travelling on a UK passport, she was on a Canadian.

Rgs,

SM

Edited November 10, 2014 by STUDMEYER

[ubonjoe]

What Thai Embassy website was that? There is no such rule!

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/55

Foreigners who enter Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category and would like to leave and re-enter may only stay for a cumulative duration which does not exceed 90 days and is within a 6-month period from the date of first entry. (Passport or travel document must be valid for at least 6 months after the date of first entry).

I read that as 90 days in any six month period rolling ! , does anyone concur ?

That rule was cancelled 6 years ago when they changed it to 15 days at border crossing.

[mngmn]

if anyones interested I can confirm the OPs story.

My wife and I flew into Don Mueang at the end of September 2014. I went through first, my wife second. The lady at immigration made a comment I couldnt make out and laughed a bit to her coworker then seemed to begrudgingly give me a stamp and let me through.

My wife went after me and was stopped. I could see clearly on the immigration computer screen a yellow box had popped up when they swiped her passport.

She was taken into an office and explained that you can only use the visa exemption stamp for a total of 90 days per year with no indication on a hard limit for the number of stamps They allowed her to come in as we were leaving again in 5 days. She had been in and out more times than I had this year, im guessing next time i come in on an expemtion the same will happen to me.

This was at DMK, its the only time anything like this has ever happened to me. We had both been in an out several times this year, although she had a couple more stamps, and another 30-40 days ontop of the time I had in The LOS.

Im travelling on a UK passport, she was on a Canadian.

Rgs,

SM

Thank you for sharing your experience. The "yellow box" popping up certainly seems to fit. The officer had the stamp poised above my passport about to stamp it when she saw something on the screen.

[winnerinsix]

Without going back thru the whole thread, it seems to me that maybe, there is a lady IO officer, and maybe 1 supervisor at DMK that have no idea.... I *think* most people who have reported a similar problem there, the officer has been a woman? If not, I stand corrected.... where I work, some of the people I work with have no idea about interpreting directives as they come, and put their own spin on things... So u get an even application of directions........... Seems to me, this may very well be the case at DMK.

Edited November 10, 2014 by winnerinsix

[mngmn]

Without going back thru the whole thread, it seems to me that maybe, there is a lady IO officer, and maybe 1 supervisor at DMK that have no idea.... I *think* most people who have reported a similar problem there, the officer has been a woman? If not, I stand corrected.... where I work, some of the people I work with have no idea about interpreting directives as they come, and put their own spin on things... So u get an even application of directions........... Seems to me, this may very well be the case at DMK.

Even if the supervisor knew the officer was wrong she would be forced to support her in front of a foreigner.

However, also see the post above mentioning the "yellow box" on the computer screen.

Could possibly be a case of bad programming that some officers know they should ignore?

Edited November 10, 2014 by mngmn