Thai analysis: Reds should not let opportunity pass them by

[webfact]

ANALYSIS
Reds should not let opportunity pass them by
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- As forum opens today, the greatest challenge for charter drafters will trying to write a new constitution that is acceptable to all sections of the community

Not long after the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) was appointed, the drafters showed no hesitation in welcoming ideas and participation from political parties and colour-coded political groups on the composition of the new charter.

Today is the first day for the CDC to open a forum to gather suggestions from political parties and political groups. The committee has set aside about a week to discuss thoughts with the parties and the groups on the new Constitution and open up for debate in closed-door meetings.

The invitation from the CDC was sent to elected parties in the previous House of Representatives, including the Pheu Thai, Democrat and other small parties, the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), and the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

Surely, every side has been preparing to have a say in this constitutional drafting process.

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva will lead his team to meet the CDC. The anti-Thaksin PDRC was enthusiastic about taking part in the forum. Its spokesman even said the PDRC already had its drafts prepared on what to propose to the committee.

Only one important colour-coded group - the UDD - has shown uncertainty and hesitation about participating in this forum.

There is a strong feeling that the anti-coup red-shirts will not join the event or propose any suggestions on the charter. Last week, many of its members voiced strong opposition to the idea.

One UDD leader, Weng Tojirakarn, said that the junta and the CDC already had their blueprints, including 10 frameworks in Article 35 of the 2014 Provisional Constitution. He said that after every coup, the military always has its own set of laws ready.

However, Thida Thawornseth, another UDD leader, refused to reveal whether the UDD would cooperate with the CDC. Inside the red-shirt community, there is still some hesitation on whether it is worth offering their objections.

Even though the UDD claimed that they opposed in principle it appears that they are resisting against the CDC's idea and the new charter. Some might ask whether there was anything to be gained from what the reds were trying to do. And it might be a waste of effort for the reds to even refuse to join the CDC forum.

Need for an inclusive constitution

The reds have been crying foul that the new Constitution would be drafted in an undemocratic way. But is it even democratic to judge the charter before it has even been written? And even if the eventual charter turns out as they expected, it would be a pity if they let slip the opportunity to have a say in reshaping or reforming the country.

Many in the public want to see conflicting sides join in this forum, hoping it could lead to a community more enthusiastic about this new Constitution which, once it comes into force, should represent every side and every citizen.

Other interesting questions concern to what level or to what extent will this charter include the ideas of all sides, and what will the CDC do to resolve conflicting issues?

Without doubt, this will be the biggest challenge for the CDC as it will not be easy for them to put these different and various proposals together. Moreover, how to make the charter efficient and be acceptable to the people is another of CDC's primary challenges.

Such a challenge could be traced back to the controversial provision, or Article 35, in the interim charter that stipulates that the CDC must include 10 frameworks in any new charter. The pro- and anti-Thaksin camps are still divided on this Article as it would seem to have been written intentionally to eradicate the old power clique, the Thaksin regime.

Obviously, the reds are opposed to this idea but others, such as the Democrats and the PDRC, want it as a foundation of a new charter. Perhaps that was the reason the PDRC and the Democrats were satisfied with the article because their goals were similar and their intentions were to draft a law that would prevent the Thaksin regime from rising again.

However, the CDC forum to gather suggestions on the new charter from political parties and various political groups could be seen as the junta and the CDC opening their minds to any differences of opinion.

Some may argue the forum is intended to just make the charter appear to represent democracy by brainstorming the ideas of every side.

Yet the most important matter is that it should be the people's power to have the final say and judge the final draft of any new charter - not some political parties, individuals or conflicting sides.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Reds-should-not-let-opportunity-pass-them-by-30247906.html


-- The Nation 2014-11-17

[chainarong]

People have short memories , if you cast your mind back to the Thai love Thai era and the amendments to the constitution they made , if it wasn't for the Academic's involvement the Thai love Thai would be in power for life , that is why it was a shoddy Thai democracy, as a time limit for corrections and public scrutiny prevented proper out comes , if the academic's hadn't spilled the beans and demanded corrections etc nobody would have known, so if the red shirt brigade do submit proposals one hopes that it is well researched and is for the people, not like last time , for themselves , something akin to how they operated as a Government.

[The stuttering parrot]

Beats me how anyone hailing from a democratic country supports the military junta in anyway shape or form.

They took power by the barrel of a gun on behalf of the yellow elite and have already got the the blueprint manifesto ready to go and it only has to be rubber stamped by the yellow dems.

Nothing good is going to come out of this for the democratic voting public it's going to be all one way traffic.

Why would the UDD bother taking part it's just a giant stitch up

[ExPratt]

Jesus Christ , that's one of the worst I've read. Patronizing , crass, nonsense. Love this one

"The pro- and anti-Thaksin camps are still divided on this Article as it would seem to have been written intentionally to eradicate the old power clique, the Thaksin regime."

[ramrod711]

All reds should take this opportunity to be re educated and turn in good obedient citizen.

That certainly isn't going to happen, reds don't express dissent peacefully. They burn, threaten, throw blood, feces, stones, bottles, nuts and bolts and grenades. They shoot and kill innocent children. To expect reds to become peaceful, responsible citizens is too much. Obedience is not expected or required, respect for law and human life is.

[ExPratt]

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All reds should take this opportunity to be re educated and turn in good obedient citizen.

That certainly isn't going to happen, reds don't express dissent peacefully. They burn, threaten, throw blood, feces, stones, bottles, nuts and bolts and grenades. They shoot and kill innocent children. To expect reds to become peaceful, responsible citizens is too much. Obedience is not expected or required, respect for law and human life is.

Taking over an active International airport is hardly the height of social responsibility , or forcibly stopping people from carrying out their right to vote and don't get me started about the 90 Murdered protesters for free and fair elections

[The stuttering parrot]

Careful expratt attitude adjustment imminent !

[kingalfred]

Beats me how anyone hailing from a democratic country supports the military junta in anyway shape or form.

They took power by the barrel of a gun on behalf of the yellow elite and have already got the the blueprint manifesto ready to go and it only has to be rubber stamped by the yellow dems.

Nothing good is going to come out of this for the democratic voting public it's going to be all one way traffic.

Why would the UDD bother taking part it's just a giant stitch up

the joker rant has morphed to another thread.

[ExPratt]

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Careful expratt attitude adjustment imminent !

I recall the attitude adjustment and re-education camps were very popular in Europe just after the Great depression

[ramrod711]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

All reds should take this opportunity to be re educated and turn in good obedient citizen.

That certainly isn't going to happen, reds don't express dissent peacefully. They burn, threaten, throw blood, feces, stones, bottles, nuts and bolts and grenades. They shoot and kill innocent children. To expect reds to become peaceful, responsible citizens is too much. Obedience is not expected or required, respect for law and human life is.

Taking over an active International airport is hardly the height of social responsibility , or forcibly stopping people from carrying out their right to vote and don't get me started about the 90 Murdered protesters for free and fair elections

I guess it is a matter of degrees, was taking over the airport a legal and responsible thing to do, no. Was attempting to blow up a fuel bunker at the airport worse, I think so. Was the attempt to remove the protesters from Bangkok a success, no although the violence was precipitated by Seh Dangs blackshirts. Were the red protesters peaceful, no, they came with thousands of tires, gasoline bottles and enough bamboo to build a fortress. They burned busses, trucks and shopping centers, and they did it for money. Don't even get me started on the 90 Muslims or the alleged drug dealers that were murdered.

[Robby nz]

I would suspect they don't want to take part because they have no real ideas of their own, they are still on the old Thaksin thinks......... thing and certainly on Thaksin pays.

Makes me smile when I see the same old silliness of "Its all about keeping Thaksin out".

There will for sure be things in there like in the 2 previous constitutions which prohibited those with a criminal record from becoming politicians and I would expect these to be strengthened so they cant be subverted as in the past. However this will apply to every would be politician and not just the Thaksin camp.

That Thaksin and his gang have been the worst offenders in the past there can be no denying probably making them the worst affected but any 'clean up politics' clauses will still apply to everyone.

Lets hope we see things like :

No statute of limitations.

No parliamentary immunity.

Life time ban for election fraud.

[smedly]

This statement says it all for me - quote

However, Thida Thawornseth, another UDD leader, refused to reveal whether the UDD would cooperate with the CDC. Inside the red-shirt community, there is still some hesitation on whether it is worth offering their objections.

whether it is worth offering their objections ????????? objections to what lol

How about coming forward joining the process and offering some constructive suggestions - even though I personally don't believe that is possible - and right there "lies" the problem - the do as I say mentality has no place - your power base doesn't exist any more - you no longer have a stage to pump your hate garbage

[ExPratt]

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All reds should take this opportunity to be re educated and turn in good obedient citizen.

That certainly isn't going to happen, reds don't express dissent peacefully. They burn, threaten, throw blood, feces, stones, bottles, nuts and bolts and grenades. They shoot and kill innocent children. To expect reds to become peaceful, responsible citizens is too much. Obedience is not expected or required, respect for law and human life is.

Taking over an active International airport is hardly the height of social responsibility , or forcibly stopping people from carrying out their right to vote and don't get me started about the 90 Murdered protesters for free and fair elections

I guess it is a matter of degrees, was taking over the airport a legal and responsible thing to do, no. Was attempting to blow up a fuel bunker at the airport worse, I think so. Was the attempt to remove the protesters from Bangkok a success, no although the violence was precipitated by Seh Dangs blackshirts. Were the red protesters peaceful, no, they came with thousands of tires, gasoline bottles and enough bamboo to build a fortress. They burned busses, trucks and shopping centers, and they did it for money. Don't even get me started on the 90 Muslims or the alleged drug dealers that were murdered.

Yeah none of them have exactly covered themselves with Glory I suppose

I think people will do anything once they feel their freedom is threatened and they have no voice.If the Protests and resulting violence of 2010 had happened in China against the Government , we and the western world would have been singing their praises. I am also sure opening up on mainly unarmed civilians is a pretty heinous act. Maybe I am looking with it through rose tinted glasses but I saw Seh Dang as a protector of people who wanted a say in who was in charge of their country and angry that their previous choice was removed. From what i have read on here the pro Junta supporters take an emotive view of the situation, however for the native people of Thailand it is far from an emotive subject. Take away a mans right to vote , freedom of speech and impose Marshall law leaving him with a sense of injustice and the reaction of many will be what you mention above

[smedly]

Beats me how anyone hailing from a democratic country supports the military junta in anyway shape or form.

They took power by the barrel of a gun on behalf of the yellow elite and have already got the the blueprint manifesto ready to go and it only has to be rubber stamped by the yellow dems.

Nothing good is going to come out of this for the democratic voting public it's going to be all one way traffic.

Why would the UDD bother taking part it's just a giant stitch up

and how many did they kill, lets quote the body count for the first 6 months of this year and who was responsible, hard to imagine that PTP MP's were dancing on stage when kids were slaughtered at the hands of the PTP/redshirt terrorist wing - is your memory fading

and before you even go down the 2010 road the redshirts were responsible for that one too so don't even start it's been done and dusted on this forum - go find an existing topic

[ExPratt]

Beats me how anyone hailing from a democratic country supports the military junta in anyway shape or form.

They took power by the barrel of a gun on behalf of the yellow elite and have already got the the blueprint manifesto ready to go and it only has to be rubber stamped by the yellow dems.

Nothing good is going to come out of this for the democratic voting public it's going to be all one way traffic.

Why would the UDD bother taking part it's just a giant stitch up

and how many did they kill, lets quote the body count for the first 6 months of this year and who was responsible, hard to imagine that PTP MP's were dancing on stage when kids were slaughtered at the hands of the PTP/redshirt terrorist wing - is your memory fading

and before you even go down the 2010 road the redshirts were responsible for that one too so don't even start it's been done and dusted on this forum - go find an existing topic

They went to protest for an election and an end to self appointed government , they also were prepared to defend themselves , which turned out after the slaughter of 90 people , to be a warranted action.

What about PDRC and forcibly preventing people for voting and their protest . The only reason that didn't turn into a bloodbath similar to 2010 was the Army stood by rather than protect an elected Government'

Pot, kettle ,Black , but to say those people were not murdered or it was somehow their own fault is wrong

Edited November 17, 2014 by ExPratt

[AleG]

Taking part in the process would disturb their narrative of the elites keeping them down, can't have that.

[rickirs]

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Jesus Christ , that's one of the worst I've read. Patronizing , crass, nonsense. Love this one

"The pro- and anti-Thaksin camps are still divided on this Article as it would seem to have been written intentionally to eradicate the old power clique, the Thaksin regime."

Well, it's not being written to eradicate the oldest power clique in Thailand since 1933 - the military. The Thaksin heritage is a mere infant in comparison.

[rickirs]

"Many in the public want to see conflicting sides join in this forum ..."

Transparency and openness of disciusion certainly should be welcomed as part of a democratic process for reform. However, the debate will be held in a CLOSED MEETING. The military has made it well known it does not tolerate open public forums beyond its control of the correct message as witnessed by its insistence that THAI PBS replace Nattaya Wawweerakup, host of its programme "People's Voices that Need to be Heard before the Reform".

PDRC leader Suthep wanted his debate with Yingluck broadcasted LIVE, albeit at PDRC's broadcast station. Oh my, how the PDRC has itself fallen under military rule.

[DeaconJohn]

The Reds have have one priority on their agenda, and that is the reinstatement of the Shinawatra Clan.

[toybits]

The problem here is legitimacy. End of Story.

[ExPratt]

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The PDRC and the UDD should not even be recognized.... They should not be acknowledged and certainly should be outlawed as rebel organizations.

I think we all know who was behind all the carnage of the past 12 months. The PDRC with their disruption and the UDD/CAPO for the slaughter.

Even though I see the PDRC did the right thing to do their level best to remove the corruption plaguing Thailand, but their cause has been successful and there is no need for them any more.

The UDD well, that doesn't even need to be discussed. They threatened slaughter and they did some of it. Even though they have such minute support compared with the PDRC they made enough noises with grenades and child killing. The lot should have been rounded up on May 23rd and shot one by one.

No country needs people like that.

"They threatened slaughter and they did some of it" They were "Threatening" to defend a democratically elected Government should the opposition and the military attempt to over throw it.That is no less than people should do if democracy is threatened. I'm relieved there were not people like some of the Coup supporters on here about in the 1930s, Britain would be part of greater Germany now

[than]

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Careful expratt attitude adjustment imminent !

I recall the attitude adjustment and re-education camps were very popular in Europe just after the Great depression

Yes actually in Europe and USA there have some campaign for help citizen to have the good attitude with authority, when you see freedom of speech are limited by law in western country ......

[Orac]

How are the UDD supposed to put forward reform ideas when they are banned from getting together to discuss it themselves.

Maybe they should accept the invite and let the CDC know that they will have a few thousand attending so that all opinions can be heard.

[candide]

This situation represents a double trap for PT:

Option 1: they don't contribute. When the expected yellow tainted charter comes out they will be told: "now you complain but you refused to contribute so it's jour fault".

Option 2: they contributeurs.When the yellow tainted charter comes out they will be told:" you participated and we have accepted some of your proposals. This is a collective process, you must also accept proposals from others, etc...

[martinhp]

Death penalty for generals there think they can be PM / run the country

And the only way of get new government is after an election

Democratic is compromise and the lack of this hold no future which makes this waste of time

[metisdead]

Reds should not let opportunity pass them by does not mean this is an invitation to return to discussion of the events of 2010 when the topic is about writing a new constitution:

BANGKOK: -- As forum opens today, the greatest challenge for charter drafters will trying to write a new constitution that is acceptable to all sections of the community

Not long after the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) was appointed, the drafters showed no hesitation in welcoming ideas and participation from political parties and colour-coded political groups on the composition of the new charter.

Today is the first day for the CDC to open a forum to gather suggestions from political parties and political groups. The committee has set aside about a week to discuss thoughts with the parties and the groups on the new Constitution and open up for debate in closed-door meetings.

The invitation from the CDC was sent to elected parties in the previous House of Representatives, including the Pheu Thai, Democrat and other small parties, the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), and the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed.

[ikke]

This statement says it all for me - quote

However, Thida Thawornseth, another UDD leader, refused to reveal whether the UDD would cooperate with the CDC. Inside the red-shirt community, there is still some hesitation on whether it is worth offering their objections.

whether it is worth offering their objections ????????? objections to what lol

How about coming forward joining the process and offering some constructive suggestions - even though I personally don't believe that is possible - and right there "lies" the problem - the do as I say mentality has no place - your power base doesn't exist any more - you no longer have a stage to pump your hate garbage

Seems you are doing the best you can to stage your hate garbage...

[angsta]

Insulting to ones intelligence.

[The Deerhunter]

Beats me how anyone hailing from a democratic country supports the military junta in anyway shape or form.

They took power by the barrel of a gun on behalf of the yellow elite and have already got the the blueprint manifesto ready to go and it only has to be rubber stamped by the yellow dems.

Nothing good is going to come out of this for the democratic voting public it's going to be all one way traffic.

Why would the UDD bother taking part it's just a giant stitch up

Just the sort of response we would expect to see from you. BUT, seeing you are such a PTP/UDD supporter there are many TVF readers wondering you do not take a leaf out of your heroes' book.

You should/could simply deny us all the opportunity of reading your opinions on the subject.