Why Does A Successful Intelligent Farang Marry A Bar Girl

[OZONE]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

[mobile69]

What amazes me is the people who come here & get married too quickly without really knowing their future ex-wife. You wouldn't marry someone back home after only knowing them for a few weeks, but that happens here especially with people visiting for a few weeks a couple of times a year. Whether a bg or a middle or upper class lass, high chances of failure. Take yor time chaps, marriage is supposedly for life.

[britmaveric]

What amazes me is the people who come here & get married too quickly without really knowing their future ex-wife. You wouldn't marry someone back home after only knowing them for a few weeks, but that happens here especially with people visiting for a few weeks a couple of times a year. Whether a bg or a middle or upper class lass, high chances of failure. Take yor time chaps, marriage is supposedly for life.

Key to success in any relationship is knowing someone inside/out and take your time. Big life decision and needs not to be rushed.

[Totster]

Is there a difference between a girl who has had many partners for sex as one night stands, and a girl who has had an equal amount of partners for sex that have paid her for the service ?

totster

[sbk]

Start one bar girl conversation and thats all you get.

Oh for the days of rinse or wipe.

[lannarebirth]

Start one bar girl conversation and thats all you get.

Oh for the days of rinse or wipe.

I often wondered why these topics never came up, or were quickly ended once begun. I thought it seemed a natural topic of conversation in a nation with a thriving sex tourism industry. I think now, my curiosity has been sated, and for a good while to come.

[kerryk]

Perhaps KerryK just had too many Chang's that nite he was down in Playskool in Pattaya. So trashed off his head, that he took the Mamasang to be a professor and the go-go bar to be a university.

Talk about troll!

Thailand is a land that is hard to believe at times. When some one says something that contradicts your beliefs or experiences it is also hard to believe. I don’t think I have used any insulting language or called anyone names. I have said some things that some find hard to believe.

I was sitting in a bar on a major street having a beer and an elephant walked by and took my hat off of my head. I gave him a banana and he gave me back my hat.

In the West that would be hard to believe.

The 50 year old doctor who examined at the Chiang Mai Ram (Western hospital) and told me to cut down on smoking had a pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket.

A university student working on an MBA and a part time waitress at my favorite restaurant/club who I barely knew came to my home unannounced and asked me for an unsecured loan of 5000 baht. Would never happen in the West.

I am not a sex tourist. There is a big difference between people who live here and sex tourists.

This is a college town most of the students come from out of town and are on their own away from parental supervision. It is a party town. Unlike Bangkok or Pattaya there is not a big pay for play market geared toward Farang.

If you are a single male with some cash and speak a little Thai Chiang Mai is a paradise to live in. It is not however for the two week millionaires.

[kerryk]

Is there a difference between a girl who has had many partners for sex as one night stands, and a girl who has had an equal amount of partners for sex that have paid her for the service ?

totster

One has a reputation and the other has a BMW.

[simon43]

I married a bar-girl. I passed over an apparently 'decent' non-BG in preference for the BG...

And does the risk not work both ways? She has had customers prior to me, but I had the 'pleasure' of many exotic women in Spain prior to meeting her. Does that not classify me as a risk??

In any case, we have no problems at all with our relationship. It's always better to look to the future, rather than dwell on subjects that are in the past and cannot be changed...

Simon

[kat]

"Virginity is still high on the list of values in Thai society. It is not like the West. A man can expect a good girl to be a virgin even at 30."

No, thanks at thirty I want a complete slut in bed. The importance of virginity in Thailand has also faded away long ago....Your views are outdated and inaccurate.

I agree that the demand for complete virginity is fading among the younger generation, but it has not disappeared altogether, and is not without its own version of cultural contradictions.

Crippling issues when marrying a prostitute? In the West I would agree with you 100%. But this is Thailand. In your average straight restaurant with entertainment and bar, 50% of the waitress as my lady says “go with customers.” In the West that happens in hotel bars in resort areas but is much less prevalent elsewhere.

University students in Thailand from 10 to 50% supplement their funds in the same way. That is not true in the West.

There is a different mind set in Thailand in regards to pay for play. The social stigma is not near as severe as some who post her seem to think and the personal psychological trauma involved in the business is not near as bad as in the West because of the general acceptance of the trade.

You are absolutely correct in your statement about coming from a sexually repressive background. It also effects many others posting on this forum.

Absolute nonsense!! What are you basing your figures on? 10-50% of Thai university students are prostitutes - really! Is this what 'your lady' told you? and how many university students does she know in Thailand exactly to base this on?

Sorry I should have been more specific. There are universities in Thailand that 10% of the students are available and some that 50% are available.

I am basing my estimates on professors from the universities that I have spoken with and students.

Most of the students can tell you which schools are which because they attract like students.

Ask a few from different universities and you will get the same information.

Actually, KerryK is not really far off base on this one. I've heard that it was upwards of 20- 50%, as told to me by a Chulalongkorn-educated, female university graduate with whom I worked, and she was quoting a Thai study 3 years ago.

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Uhm, in many of the informal karoke joints, and even tourist restaurants in Chiang Mai, not to mention in barber shops, internet cafes, department stores, and just about everywhere else. Since the sex trade in LOS is "illegal", the trade became camoflauged and decentralized into other service trades, not to mention the rapid increase of freelancers over the last several years. This is an established and documented fact in LOS.

Is there a difference between a girl who has had many partners for sex as one night stands, and a girl who has had an equal amount of partners for sex that have paid her for the service ?

totster

Well, yes, by most conventional definitions there is. Of course, there is the convienent definition favored many in LOS that ALL women are whores ("you always pay one way or another") by virtue of how many sex partners they have had, but - and this is the shocker - some women actually have multiple sex partners in search of love, companionship and sex, or at least expectations of something other than what often passes for it. He or she is having sex for other reasons besides money and material compensation.

By conventional definitions, a prostitute - whether they are selling themselves to a corporation, a short-time, or a husband - is doing it for the primary reason of money. Quite simple really. I fail to see what all the confusion is about.

edit: I'm in bold

Edited August 4, 2006 by kat

[kerryk]

Reply to Kat.

I think the confusion comes from the people who would paint prostitution in the West as the same as prostitution in Thailand.

It is simply stated, not the same.

It is better and it is worse.

From reading the posts in this forum the majority of Farang would not be able to comprehend the Thai pay for play reality nor would they want to.

Some people in Thailand simply do not want to know about it or if they know about don‘t want to talk about it.

If you contrast life in Thailand with life in Burma one gets an idea of why some of it exists. You get an idea of why women from Burma tolerate the situation.

The same is true of India. The excesses are horrific to say the least.

Farang prostitution in Thailand is a strange mix of marriage brokers and sex tourism. Half of the ladies are trying to take advantage of the Farang and half the Farang are trying to take advantage of the ladies. The other half are trying to please the ladies and the ladies trying to please the men with the end result being marriage. The horror stories come when the halves get mixed up.

When a bar girl who does not want to be a bar girl meets a Farang who is looking for a new start or a wife or something along those lines meet everything works fine. The both of them will go out of their way to accommodate the other.

I have been involved in a number of sin sot negations both from the Farang point of view and the Thai point of view.

The bargaining chips are; virginity, previous marriages, children from previous marriages, cost of education among others. Virginity is worth a lot of money.

In Thailand it is not only the physical concept of virginity that is important but the lifestyle that has accompanied that physical condition. The countless dates that were always chaperoned and the monitoring of the woman by the family and the self control of the woman.

Can you imagine the conversation taking place in the West?

I would like to thank you for the confirmation of my statistics of university women. It sounds less prejudicial coming from a woman who does not have an ax to grind in the argument.

[kerryk]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Yes that is exactly the case. I could give you ten upscale restaurants in Chiang Mai that I have visited that would confirm that.

[kat]

Kerry, by now you should know that I call it as I see it, whether it's agreeable or not. And before I call it, I try to see it from every conceivable angle, that is documented, corroborated, and exasperated

[Plus]

Thai women make a clear distiction between play and pay. Even when they play, it's not for payment. Generally Thais don't want to appear as easy as farang women, but since they don't really know where the boundaries are, they just go with the flow and their judgement - but that's "play" or "love" only, they would never take your money.

I try to limit my assosiation to people who'd never accept money for sex, to whom the whole idea is repulsive, so naturally I don't get to see many prostitutes. If I was hanging around Sukhumwit my perception would be different, of course.

In many many business establishments BGs won't be welcome - it's a class thing, they are nobodies outside their bars.

I don't know about current university students crop. How many of them have sex with lots of people? How many of those take money for it?

[OZONE]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Yes that is exactly the case. I could give you ten upscale restaurants in Chiang Mai that I have visited that would confirm that.

There are ten of thousands of bars, restaurants in Thiland, so I doubt that a person or groups frequented all these places took an accurate surveyed.

To say "most" is absurd, but to say "many" would be correct.

Edited August 4, 2006 by OZONE

[Thistle]

Toby charnaud married because he fell in love, firstly with Thailand and then with his wife. He had a beautiful son and fell in love with her. Now that love has been ruined forever due to the greed and evilness of a bad, rotton, evil woman who brings shame and disgrace on her country. We miss you so much Toby you were a great man.

[phibunmike]

considering all the horror stories we have heard and the many books penned about this very subject some farang still travel down this dangerous path.

now im only concerned with the intelligent, educated, financially independent and successful fellow that decides to actually marry a bar girl.

some men would marry any female that has a pulse.

what has lead me to ask this question is the case in HH where the fellow was murdered and burnt by his wife and her relatives.

by all accounts he was a very decent , educated and financially wealthy man.

my conun'drum being : why did he not take his time to possibly find a wife away from the bar girl scene ?

one would think that the chances for a successful relationship would be compounded if one would consider this path firstly before looking to the bar scene.

i am gob smacked to why he would enter into this game considering all the information that was available to him.

i welcome all reply's humourous or not that could possibly sooth my troubled mind.

thank you all.

....boring...

[Thistle]

You may consider it boring but from someone close to Toby that is how it was - your comment could be considered offensive - personally my thoughts are with his family and son.

[mittheimp]

"Virginity is still high on the list of values in Thai society. It is not like the West. A man can expect a good girl to be a virgin even at 30."

No, thanks at thirty I want a complete slut in bed. The importance of virginity in Thailand has also faded away long ago....Your views are outdated and inaccurate.

It may be not as prevalent as it once was - but to say the importance of virginity faded away long ago is actually the inaccurate statement! Prostitution in Thailand and East Asian nations generally is widespread and tolerated because free and consensual pre-marital sexual relations don't exist in the same way - for many men in Thailand the only way to have sex prior to marriage (or at least a very long term relationship) is through visiting brothels.

Very well put, I agree completely. If one looks at the ages of male virgins in Japan it is staggering. Your statement also explains why women in Asia who are not virgins are at a severe disadvantage when competing for quality Asian men.

I don't want to argue with some one who has completely agreed with my post - however - on the one hand you agree that virginity is still valued in Thailand, and because of this prostitution is the only access to sex for many non married men - but on the other you claim up to 50% of Thai university students, (who obviously belong to the higher echelons of thai society) are getting paid for sex. Now I've seen these articles and polls too in the Bangkok post that give some credence to this - but I've also seen many surveys and polls in the Bangkok post on a variety of subjects that are clearly highly dubious based on a poor sample and liberally interpreted. In Japan I've heard similar stories how a high percentage of Japanese high school students have a much older 'sugar daddy' that provide material gifts in return for sex - however a recent comprehensive survey rubbished this and put the percentage at less than 2%. Now there may be certain colleges in Thailand where this goes on more than others - but i doubt at any genuine Thai 'public universities' (not a ratchapat or a private university which are just colleges of further education under a misleading name) this is the case at all - urban myth, rumour and in some cases wishful thinking!

[Jeff1]

They all come out on a thread like this, don't they ?

However it's always good to know who is who .

[Donz]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Yes that is exactly the case. I could give you ten upscale restaurants in Chiang Mai that I have visited that would confirm that.

Not even close, most usually means more then 50%. Are you trying to tell us that more then 50% of waitreses in Thailand are hookers???

I think many farangs have no idea, Many farangs in Oz think 90% of thailand are prostitutes awell.

Come on guys wake up

[phibunmike]

You may consider it boring but from someone close to Toby that is how it was - your comment could be considered offensive - personally my thoughts are with his family and son.

I apologise if my post was insensitive or offensive or in any way upsetting.

It was not my intention to address the terrible issue of the murder, only the "how can a farang end up with..." point, which has been discussed many times.

[Donz]

Look at the bar girls, most of them are smoking hot, Im sure they temp many men into relationships etc

[kerryk]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Yes that is exactly the case. I could give you ten upscale restaurants in Chiang Mai that I have visited that would confirm that.

There are ten of thousands of bars, restaurants in Thiland, so I doubt that a person or groups frequented all these places took an accurate surveyed.

To say "most" is absurd, but to say "many" would be correct.

Yes I could agree with that. I think too you have to know a little about waitresses. I would say during the past 30 years I have interviewed 30,000 waitresses. A very high percentage of first time waitress are recently divorced. It is usually a first job after a divorce because a substantial amount of money has been removed from the picture and one of the few jobs that an inexperienced woman can get and immediately produce income is waiting tables.

The better looking women get jobs as cocktail waitresses.

As a group they almost always need money and are vulnerable to offers of money.

If one is a stranger in town the easiest place to get some female companionship is a waitress. The sexier the waitress outfit the better your chances. You know the beer and liquor promo ladies that frequent Thai restaurants and clubs? Always a lot of fun.

[kerryk]

Most waiters and waitresses "back home" dont work as hookers on the side.

And most waiter & waitresses in Thailand work as a hooker on the side? Give me a break

Yes that is exactly the case. I could give you ten upscale restaurants in Chiang Mai that I have visited that would confirm that.

Not even close, most usually means more then 50%. Are you trying to tell us that more then 50% of waitreses in Thailand are hookers???

I think many farangs have no idea, Many farangs in Oz think 90% of thailand are prostitutes awell.

Come on guys wake up

No Donz. What I think I said is that in more than 50% of Thai restaurants you can find one or more waitresses that will accompany you outside of the restaurant in exchange for money. For example I frequent one very upscale restaurant that has 20 cocktail waitresses. 2 of them will go out with customers. I certainly don’t think 90% of the people in Thailand are prostitutes. What I do think is the service industry has a much higher percent than other sectors of the population. If someone can name a disco or night club or restaurant that has entertainment that does not have to go women in Thailand I would be amazed.

[terry57]

considering all the horror stories we have heard and the many books penned about this very subject some farang still travel down this dangerous path.

now im only concerned with the intelligent, educated, financially independent and successful fellow that decides to actually marry a bar girl.

some men would marry any female that has a pulse.

what has lead me to ask this question is the case in HH where the fellow was murdered and burnt by his wife and her relatives.

by all accounts he was a very decent , educated and financially wealthy man.

my conun'drum being : why did he not take his time to possibly find a wife away from the bar girl scene ?

one would think that the chances for a successful relationship would be compounded if one would consider this path firstly before looking to the bar scene.

i am gob smacked to why he would enter into this game considering all the information that was available to him.

i welcome all reply's humourous or not that could possibly sooth my troubled mind.

thank you all.

....boring...

might be boring to you fella but im getting a <deleted> load of hits on this thread.

btw, why did you read this far if its so boring to you ?

[Neeranam]

Hmmm know plenty of non-bargirls that have taken mates to cleaners. whistling.gif There is risk in any relationship that is a fact. dry.gif

So do I. Most guys refuse to believe the statistics of those before them, their one is different.

I think many marry bargirls because it their ego believes that they are saving a poor girl.

If someone tells me they have a happy relationship with a bargirl, I usually say wait.....

In most cases it turns sour before a couple of years. If it lasts 10 years, it will probably last.

Does anyone know anyone who married a bargirl after living in Thailand for say 5 years?

The main problem is because these girls are getting married for one thing only - money.

How many of the happily married guys to bargirls don't have any money?

[BigSnake]

SEX, Money, He want sex, she want money, perfect match Cheers

[TRIPxCORE]

Well I say marrying a bar girl is a big risk as they take money off guys for sex as a living, they are used to loving a guy for a week and then leaving them for the next customer, I think the majority of them will only be in the relationship for the money and if you go broke there off to find a new one.

Well basically I dont really believe in stats, I think most of its just made up anyway, I like some of you posters here (you may not feel the same) but I dont want to get into this slagging match.

I'll stick by to what I think, who knows maybe im wrong but thats my opinion.

Thats exactly what it is. Your opinion and nothing else. There are so many women working in this profession in Thailand and we only hear stories about a small percentage of them. So we cannot begin to assign arbitrary percentages to something we really are ignorant to.

What amazes me is when a thread is started usually it goes and gets a few responses and dies off for the most part. Then when a thread is started that contains the word "bargirl", it gets the whole board practically involved. This thread was just started yesterday and already has six pages!!! Incredible!

[Crossy]

Bargirl thread. Cant see this lasting long.

It's doing pretty well

BTW, I am very, very happy with my TW, not a bar girl though, met her in a Thai restaurant in Rome!!