Tax returns if more than 180 days in Thailand ?

[jpinx]

Thailand's tax rules were quoted to me as...

"Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

Does this mean someone who stays in Thailand for a total of more than 180 days per year needs to complete a Thai tax return?

Where is there a list of the countries with reciprocal taxing arrangements?

[Soutpeel]

Technically / legally speaking yes you are resident for tax purposes if here more than 180 days pa, in practice its only the people who actually work here legally who pay the tax, guess its some thing the Thai tax man has not pushed on those not working legally here/resident , but one day may be

Edited December 8, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Rooo]

Moved to Business services & information.

[Maestro]

It looks like this topic needs moving once more: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/782575-can-not-reply-to-topic-i-started/; this time to the forum Jobs, economy, banking, business, investments, so that other member can reply. There being no specific forum for tax matters, I guess the collection of taxes is linked to the economy in some way and thus should make this topic fit there. Now moving it.

[Maestro]

The text that was quoted to you comes from this web page of the Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

I wonder whether persons who have no taxable income but are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, ie living in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year, are also legally required to file a tax return. This would obviously include a lot of Thais. I remember that it was necessary for foreigners who needed a re-entry permit in the old days when a tax clearance certificate was required in addition, but those days are fortunately long gone.

The Thai Revenue Department presumably has a list of countries with which Thailand has double-taxation agreements, but you really only want to know whether there is such an agreement between Thailand and your country. A call to your consulate should bring forth the answer.

[BKKSnowBird]

I think it has been said many times on this forum that if you are bringing money in from savings then no need file here. Your pention, investments and social security could replace that saving for the future year.

[Maestro]

A list of countries with which Thailand has double taxation treaties is on pages 21-22 of this PDF document, but please note that it was create in the year 2008 and some parts of the document are not up-to-date:

KPMG income tax information.pdf

[Soutpeel]

The text that was quoted to you comes from this web page of the Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

I wonder whether persons who have no taxable income but are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, ie living in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year, are also legally required to file a tax return. This would obviously include a lot of Thais. I remember that it was necessary for foreigners who needed a re-entry permit in the old days when a tax clearance certificate was required in addition, but those days are fortunately long gone.

The Thai Revenue Department presumably has a list of countries with which Thailand has double-taxation agreements, but you really only want to know whether there is such an agreement between Thailand and your country. A call to your consulate should bring forth the answer.

The fact that after 180 days in Thailand you are resident for tax purposes would mean yes you are suppose to submit a tax return, even if you have no taxable income, but with like a lot of things in Thailand, the rule or law is there, but never enforced, but there may come a day that they do enforce it and proving your tax affairs are in order may become part of getting a long term visa or extension

Just because there may be a reciprocal tax agreement in place between Thailand and ones own country, this doesn't mean you would be exempt from submitting a tax return in one or both countries, what it means is you will not be taxed twice on the same money, however in certain cases where it can get tricky is when there are different prevailing tax rates in different countries

Hypothetical example

Let's say you live in Thailand and are resident for tax purposes, your income in your own country is taxed at 10% at source, you then ship the money to Thailand as income and declare your income, if the prevailing tax rate on the same amount of money in Thailand is 15%, then the Thai tax man could ask you to pay the additional 5% to them even in the case of a dual tax agreement

[mesquite]

I propose that this and similar topics become "banned" topics, lest we give them any ideas.

[jpinx]

The text that was quoted to you comes from this web page of the Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

I wonder whether persons who have no taxable income but are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, ie living in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year, are also legally required to file a tax return. This would obviously include a lot of Thais. I remember that it was necessary for foreigners who needed a re-entry permit in the old days when a tax clearance certificate was required in addition, but those days are fortunately long gone.

The Thai Revenue Department presumably has a list of countries with which Thailand has double-taxation agreements, but you really only want to know whether there is such an agreement between Thailand and your country. A call to your consulate should bring forth the answer.

The fact that after 180 days in Thailand you are resident for tax purposes would mean yes you are suppose to submit a tax return, even if you have no taxable income, but with like a lot of things in Thailand, the rule or law is there, but never enforced, but there may come a day that they do enforce it and proving your tax affairs are in order may become part of getting a long term visa or extension

Just because there may be a reciprocal tax agreement in place between Thailand and ones own country, this doesn't mean you would be exempt from submitting a tax return in one or both countries, what it means is you will not be taxed twice on the same money, however in certain cases where it can get tricky is when there are different prevailing tax rates in different countries

Hypothetical example

Let's say you live in Thailand and are resident for tax purposes, your income in your own country is taxed at 10% at source, you then ship the money to Thailand as income and declare your income, if the prevailing tax rate on the same amount of money in Thailand is 15%, then the Thai tax man could ask you to pay the additional 5% to them even in the case of a dual tax agreement

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's incredibly difficult to disentangle yourself from a tax regime such as UK - even if you haven't live there for years, but you get a state pension - for example.

It's another point to remember when considering the retirement destination -- as is running in another thread these days -- or when chasing Thai citizenship - also running in another thread.

I always remember granny's advice --

1. Be grateful for what you have and make the most of it

2. Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it

[Soutpeel]

The text that was quoted to you comes from this web page of the Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

I wonder whether persons who have no taxable income but are resident in Thailand for tax purposes, ie living in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year, are also legally required to file a tax return. This would obviously include a lot of Thais. I remember that it was necessary for foreigners who needed a re-entry permit in the old days when a tax clearance certificate was required in addition, but those days are fortunately long gone.

The Thai Revenue Department presumably has a list of countries with which Thailand has double-taxation agreements, but you really only want to know whether there is such an agreement between Thailand and your country. A call to your consulate should bring forth the answer.

The fact that after 180 days in Thailand you are resident for tax purposes would mean yes you are suppose to submit a tax return, even if you have no taxable income, but with like a lot of things in Thailand, the rule or law is there, but never enforced, but there may come a day that they do enforce it and proving your tax affairs are in order may become part of getting a long term visa or extension

Just because there may be a reciprocal tax agreement in place between Thailand and ones own country, this doesn't mean you would be exempt from submitting a tax return in one or both countries, what it means is you will not be taxed twice on the same money, however in certain cases where it can get tricky is when there are different prevailing tax rates in different countries

Hypothetical example

Let's say you live in Thailand and are resident for tax purposes, your income in your own country is taxed at 10% at source, you then ship the money to Thailand as income and declare your income, if the prevailing tax rate on the same amount of money in Thailand is 15%, then the Thai tax man could ask you to pay the additional 5% to them even in the case of a dual tax agreement

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's incredibly difficult to disentangle yourself from a tax regime such as UK - even if you haven't live there for years, but you get a state pension - for example.

It's another point to remember when considering the retirement destination -- as is running in another thread these days -- or when chasing Thai citizenship - also running in another thread.

I always remember granny's advice --

1. Be grateful for what you have and make the most of it

2. Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it

Yes, you read all the time about farangs banging on about wanting "rights" and "legal" status in Thailand and stamping their little feet about "discrimination" in Thailand, but one suspects if Thailand did ever start handing out "rights" taxation would also come into the equation, as things are now, you are seen as a "transient" in Thailand and therefore the enforcement of rules is lax and nonexistent if you don't work here, so saying be careful what you wish for is very true

You only need to be earning USD 128k a year in Thailand and they can take 35% off you in tax and as tax rates go that is pretty high and you don't get as many deductibles you get in other countries either

[falang07]

What about the 15% tax deducted from fixed deposit accounts? Can I voluntarily register and claim the tax back, or can I do it even without registering at the tax office?

[jpinx]

What about the 15% tax deducted from fixed deposit accounts? Can I voluntarily register and claim the tax back, or can I do it even without registering at the tax office?

Be careful because they will then look at all the rest of your affairs, not just what you want them to see Your home country's TaxMan will also take an interest in what you're up to.

[falang07]

I have nothing to hide, they can look but I really doubt anyone would bother to inform my home country's taxman about a few thousand baht of tax refunded in here from fixed deposit account (and I would not care either, this is not subject to any tax in my home country anyway).

[jpinx]

I have nothing to hide, they can look but I really doubt anyone would bother to inform my home country's taxman about a few thousand baht of tax refunded in here from fixed deposit account (and I would not care either, this is not subject to any tax in my home country anyway).

=========================================

Fair enough -- it's your affair Don't forget to factor in the fines and other penalties for not reporting changes in your circumstances

[DrTuner]

A list of countries with which Thailand has double taxation treaties is on pages 21-22 of this PDF document, but please note that it was create in the year 2008 and some parts of the document are not up-to-date:

KPMG income tax information.pdf

The website of the revenue department has them too: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/766.0.html

[el jefe]

What about the 15% tax deducted from fixed deposit accounts? Can I voluntarily register and claim the tax back, or can I do it even without registering at the tax office?

Yes, you can easily have the 15% refunded.

There are many threads about it on this sub-forum.

Basically, you get a form from your bank stating the interest and withholding and then from Jan-March you go to your local tax office and they'll help you with the forms. A few weeks later they mail you a check.

[harryfrompattaya]

I propose that this and similar topics become "banned" topics, lest we give them any ideas.

I think you live here you pay taxes if you do not like leave

[falang07]

I propose that this and similar topics become "banned" topics, lest we give them any ideas.

I think you live here you pay taxes if you do not like leave

Not true at all. Thai tax residents pay tax from income earned abroad only in case it is remitted to Thailand (and even then only if remitted in the same year it was earned, otherwise it is tax exempt).