How to sue contractor merchant who took my deposit and failed to deliver ?

[dannywla]

Last month paid a merchant to install tempered glass and sink basin glass enclosure. He had two weeks to,deliver goods and yesterday had a lame excuse!

How best to collect 16,000 baht as he says his sub contractor flaked on him! He said he needs ten day and will install items December 17.

I want my options as he was overpaid as he was too order a large black tempered glass of 10 mm and then said not available. I told him I would just have black granite cut, credit me.

Do I pay a person to stand in front of his shop outside Home works, Tesco Lotus Pattaya, stating in Thai and English that this vendor is a thief?

Hire a attorney sue him, or call the Tourist police after he defaults again?

What would you do, my wife is Thai so she can Sue him, can we get a judgement and put a lien against him

And get his car to settle the debt ?

[steven100]

' Do I pay a person to stand in front of his shop outside Home works, Tesco Lotus Pattaya, stating in Thai and English that this vendor is a thief? '

You can do that if you are willing to accept any concequences ... remember this is Thailand .....

Hire a attorney sue him, or call the Tourist police after he defaults again?

So you want to spend more money to chase bad money .....

Give him the benefit of the doubt and see if it's installed by 17th December .... just remind him every few days .. and explain to him that if it's delayed further you will take legal action as needed..

[Chang_paarp]

16000 Baht lost, it will cost several times that and several years to recover the funds if you go down the legal route. Up to you as to how you go from here.

Would not recommend the other option, check out the legal ramifications (this is why TV does not allow name and shame) and the other more likely outcome if you go down this rabbit hole.

[konying]

Consumer protection board, free service, might take a few month if has to go all the way.

[ezzra]

Get a Thai person, preferably in a respected position, to call him and see what's the problem is

and try to defuse the situation and get the money back or as much as he's willing to give back,

failing that, get a lawyer to call him and repeat the above but with a stern warning that

you will either report it to the police or sue,

Failing that, forget it and move on, suing him is a losing proposition, it will take years to get to the

court and the lawyer fees will cost you 3 time as much......

[KittenKong]

Get a Thai person, preferably in a respected position, to call him and see what's the problem is

and try to defuse the situation and get the money back or as much as he's willing to give back,

failing that, get a lawyer to call him and repeat the above but with a stern warning that

you will either report it to the police or sue,

The consumer protection people mentioned above will do this for you, more or less. Apparently (and somewhat surprisingly) they can be very effective.

I think that some tradespeople and businesses here (of all nationalities) just assume that "oh, he's a farang so he wont do anything" and so when they are contacted by a Thai government agency they realise that they may have been mistaken, and will put things right quite quickly. At least they will if they value their reputation and want to keep trading.

Of course if the tradesman/business has gone bankrupt or spent your deposit money on beer and yaba then you have probably had it, but that would be the same anywhere in the world.

[captnhoy]

Isn't this another example of how we have to just suck it up here? No one will actually help you because no one really gives a shit but YOU. You are on your own. I'm not just projecting possible outcomes as I am in the same situation with a wicker furniture shop at Chatuchak Market. I placed a sizable order with a 20,000 baht deposit and have nothing to show for it but the receipt. That was 3 years ago. That Consumer Affairs Dept mentioned here? Go ahead and do let us know how that turns out. They did not even acknowledge my complaint. At this point I'd actually prefer to settle it Thai style. But I can't do the time so I have to suck it up. I bet if you were to take a poll on this topic you would find that it's a bigger problem than the piss tests at Asoke.

[Gentmartin]

Dont suck it up, firstly, ask your wife to write to him and inform him that if the work isnt completed by his new promised date of 17th then you will file a police report. If he doesnt make good his promise of 17th then really do go and file a police report. Suprising what happens when the police have paperwork to do, they will have to call him in for a meeting where the details of the dispute will be written down and filed until a solution is achieved.

And yes, i do have actual experience of this, the police were excellent and very helpful. Get a report filed is my suggestion mate.

Tradespeople here use the money you pay as a deposit to fund or finish current jobs theyre on, very dodgy and obviously lots of room for c0ck ups....Dont let him walk away from this.

[1FinickyOne]

I think your best option is to bear with it a little longer - let a Thai person, like your wife try and talk with him - and just remember, this is not a Thai problem alone… people all over tend to have problems w/contractors. I see it happen all the time here amongst Tha/Thai too. Wherever there are people/money involved, there is a strong potential for problems… good luck - i hope it resolves ok..

but just remember, if you do something to try and ruin his life like protesting in front of his business - he might find a way to retaliate and nobody really wins much in a spitting contest…

[garyinhuahin]

Do remember that dispute resolution mechanisms in Thailand extend to having you shot or your head stove in with a blunt instrument. It does happen.

Proceed apace, keep a calm demeanor (this counts hugely in Thailand), follow through until the promised delivery and judge what's appropriate if you don't have satisfaction then.

Best wishes.

[Tolley]

Bit of an over reaction from the OP.

16k baht and you are going off talking about all sorts of things that are completely unrealistic and will end up causing more trouble and more grief.

Give him a bit more time and then if he doesn't come good feel free to lodge a complaint via your wife with the police.

[captnhoy]

@Gentmartin - I'm glad that the police helped you. In my case they turned me away and said it was a civil case, not a criminal case.

[inzman]

A little donation to the police benevolent assoc. would help in countless ways.

[mrblue]

never happened in my whole life here in thailand that something I bought has been delivered on time, never!

thai people are not even on time at appointment nor even when they go to work, so what's the problem? it is frustrating at first, but will get used, wait a little more.

[cbluck58]

I think you have been stitched up but don't get into any illegal protesting as it can end badly for you - remember that a bullet in the head only costs around 50 USD so be very careful.

Proceeding with a police report or going to the Consumer Protection Board would seem the sensible option and remember to stay calm at all times.

[soumanioco]

How about having someone to stand in front of his shop holding placard reading "Mr Whoever is NOT a thief" in both Thai and English.

Would that still be considered name and shame?

[Estrada]

He has given you a delivery promise of Dec 17th. If he does not deliver, go to his shop with a written demand for your money back with copies of you receipt. If he does not give you your money back tell him you are about to go to the police with the copies of the invoices and payment details etc. In a similar case I got my money back even though the cashier told me that the owner wasn't going to pay, as soon as I threatened to go to the police with the evidence.

I usually pay by Citibank Credit Card because you can just tell Citibank that you have not recieved the goods and they will refund the money and deduct it from his account. I recently did this when I bought some glasses from Optic Square for B16,000 that they could not get the focus correct for after 3 attempts. I just told them I would ask Ciitbank for a refund and they told Citibank to refund my money. If you paid by credit card then you can get the credit card company to take back the money from the vendor (Always keep the credit card receipt especially as sometimes the vendor uses another company's CC facility).

In the old days here there was less protection and you had to go to court. A friend of mine had a pair of gates made by a Gate Manufacturer which were very badly made, the owner refused to pay. The owner mentioned he had rich and influential friends, so he wasn't going to refund his money and threatened him with possible bodily harm. My friend eventually go the case to court and was awarded damages. These days you can go to the police or office of consumer protection, in Bangkok it is in the same building as Immigration.

[Shaunduhpostman]

Sometimes you just have to wait. That's what I would do, wait till the 17th and then get tough. As I am sure you have already noticed, things are not usually done in the most timely manner in Thailand, no one's time is particularly acknowledged let alone respected.

Also, quite often, as per the impossibility of refunds with most vendors and businesses, the unwritten rule seems to be, if they have your money game over. Always get your goods first then pay, I don't think the business climate warrants that it is reasonable to ask for a deposit for anything, asking for a deposit assumes that there is in place a system that will enforce any problems a customer might have and that business people have an eye on their future and value return patronage. Here neither is the case, businesses lord it over customers who have little recourse if things go bad and many businesses have a take the money and run attitude their future be damned.

[NoshowJones]

Dont suck it up, firstly, ask your wife to write to him and inform him that if the work isnt completed by his new promised date of 17th then you will file a police report. If he doesnt make good his promise of 17th then really do go and file a police report. Suprising what happens when the police have paperwork to do, they will have to call him in for a meeting where the details of the dispute will be written down and filed until a solution is achieved.

And yes, i do have actual experience of this, the police were excellent and very helpful. Get a report filed is my suggestion mate.

Tradespeople here use the money you pay as a deposit to fund or finish current jobs theyre on, very dodgy and obviously lots of room for c0ck ups....Dont let him walk away from this.

Why not ask the police to recover the money. and you will give them 3000Baht? Good luck in getting your money back.

[NoshowJones]

@Gentmartin - I'm glad that the police helped you. In my case they turned me away and said it was a civil case, not a criminal case.

That's because you never offered them any money.

[RigPig]

Yes I agree that this is probably a bigger problem than people realise, first to find someone to do the job and then to get it done properly. This country is not cheap anymore, first you will pay the farang price, then get half a job. Quite often it is more expensive than back home for half the job !!

The police are your only recourse, via your wife and a "contribution" to the policeman's other ball.

I find that applying Vaseline in the morning after my shower helps somewhat. One question though, did you get a kiss?

[Strangebrew]

Word of advice next time do as I always do. I tell them what I wantdone and what materials I want used Then if they ask for money I say When you complete job correctly I pay if job done good and finished on time I give bonus otherwise I go and get what I want and do it myself since it is my place . Also DIY is legal and work permit not needed.

[dannywla]

Thanks for all the feedback! Why has no one mentioned the Thai Tourist Court which open in April 2014?

I would never myself stand in front of the merchant kiosk with a sign, but in USA I would pay someone too.

It's more the Principle of being cheated after he failed to obtain the originally agreed Black Tempered Glass.

Now I will wait and see, these suggestions are most helpful. I will see how my wife works to protect our 16,000 Thai Baht! In America I have her Back protected at all times, let's see her at work in Thailand.

I welcome the Tourist Police and the Thai Police too make matters more sever for that Indiviual, I will do my best to not Lose Face, when He defaults.

I will also like to get the Pattaya Pople and Pattaya Mail interested in this matter, to shine light on his fraudulent actions.

Keep you posted how this plays out!

[luudee]

I think the most important thing when using contractors (Thai or foreigners) is to use somebody

who is recommended by somebody you trust.

I have been screwed a couple of times as well, and now only use people I either personally know,

or are highly recommended by somebody whose judgement I trust.

This way it will sometimes take longer to find a subcontractor, BUT, you will find somebody who

will get the job done ....

It might be interesting if somebody could maintain a web site with a list of contractors, where people

could post good and bad reports ... I realize this might not be easy, but it could be done anonymously ...

luudee

[konying]

Thanks for all the feedback! Why has no one mentioned the Thai Tourist Court which open in April 2014?

I would never myself stand in front of the merchant kiosk with a sign, but in USA I would pay someone too.

It's more the Principle of being cheated after he failed to obtain the originally agreed Black Tempered Glass.

Now I will wait and see, these suggestions are most helpful. I will see how my wife works to protect our 16,000 Thai Baht! In America I have her Back protected at all times, let's see her at work in Thailand.

I welcome the Tourist Police and the Thai Police too make matters more sever for that Indiviual, I will do my best to not Lose Face, when He defaults.

I will also like to get the Pattaya Pople and Pattaya Mail interested in this matter, to shine light on his fraudulent actions.

Keep you posted how this plays out!

You go tiger and disregard all previous advice

Tourist police by definition is for tourists, considering that you remodeling your house, you would fail to fall into tourist category

Royal Thai Police, have nothing to do with this matter because nothing criminal has taken place.

Seller has not run away, but simply delaying the delivery and installation.

Do you have a written contract or bill of sale confirming the delivery terms? I do not think so.

Running around like an idiot throwing empty threats around is silly and does not get you any results.

Take a lawyer, pay another 25K, just to file the case, seller will drag it out for a year or so, then deliver either much inferior product, so you can pay another 25K to prove its inferior or may be give you the refund, so you definitely will be the winner along with your principle.

Just accept you do not know everything, this is not the great US of A,

As clearly posted for you, contact OCBP and ASK not DEMAND their help in resolving the matter.

Usually 1 phone call will see your full refund or immediate delivery, a call from OCBP not from you or your wife

Good luck

[Gentmartin]

All the posters saying it's not a police matter are wrong. If the guy has taken money (and of course you have receipt etc) and not been forthcoming with the goods or services then it IS a police that when you go to the police station will result in a report being made out and jim being called in for a discussion.

Just walking away and cutting your loss is silly and just encourages the tradesman or whoever to pull the same stunt again.

In the ops case, as i said before, get a written confirmation that he will keep his promise of 17th, if he fails, instant refund or police report for fraud/theft. Consumer council applies to bad workmanship, faulty goods etc,

[konying]

All the posters saying it's not a police matter are wrong. If the guy has taken money (and of course you have receipt etc) and not been forthcoming with the goods or services then it IS a police that when you go to the police station will result in a report being made out and jim being called in for a discussion.

Just walking away and cutting your loss is silly and just encourages the tradesman or whoever to pull the same stunt again.

In the ops case, as i said before, get a written confirmation that he will keep his promise of 17th, if he fails, instant refund or police report for fraud/theft. Consumer council applies to bad workmanship, faulty goods etc,

Why write rubbish if you do not have a clue

Seller has not refused to deliver nor is denying it, so where is the crime?

Where is the fraud? and where is the theft?

Please stop posting incorrect and uninformed nonsense

[DisainaM]

in a country, where every 3. person has a weapon,

he knows, where you are living,

the best choice, let him deliver the material,

and then let him go.

[frank0424]

Bit of an over reaction from the OP.

16k baht and you are going off talking about all sorts of things that are completely unrealistic and will end up causing more trouble and more grief.

Give him a bit more time and then if he doesn't come good feel free to lodge a complaint via your wife with the police.

Well said Tolley

If you eventually have no luck, think yourself lucky as it could have been much more.

[dannywla]

This forum is used to ask questions ! To get insight, why not ask how best to handle this matter even if it's 16,000 Thai baht. No need to get cynical comments, I have a Mom !

I believe there is fraud if he fails to deliver the services and products. Had he delivered it in the past three weeks when he received that good faith deposit, there would be no issues. Not even a call, but on due date a lame excuse. Today I can pay a glass shop to do that job and pay upon completion.

However, since I choose to special order a large piece of tempered glass a security deposit was reasonable.

Best to give him that grace period. Then let my wife take action and get the police involved.