Koh Tao murder trial date brought forward by 2 months

[slipperx]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

If the FCO is withholding evidence from the Defence team - THAT is interfering with the justice system of Thailand.

Providing evidence that is truthful can NEVER be interfering with the judicial system.

Manipulating, withholding, destroying or falsifying evidence is prejudicial to any justice system and most of those deeds are codified as illegal. Withholding information may or may not be illegal depending on circumstance. Unfortunately nobody seems to care much for ethics or legality of things in Thailand even in the court system which is routinely abused by Thai lawyers.

[dcutman]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

[BritTim]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

... the Millers said: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer ...

The suspects have a nigh on impossible case to answer, it seems to me, when they are not even permitted to know what it is.

[dcutman]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

... the Millers said: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer ...

The suspects have a nigh on impossible case to answer, it seems to me, when they are not even permitted to know what it is.

Most likely this case is going to end, just as is started, a total cock up! With a total of 4 victims.

[mcm991]

Since you seem intent on lying, it is time to ask. Where have I Praised the RTP?

Well .. you do have VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal. Seems only right you would defend them.

Umm no I don't have "VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal*". (sic)

Nor have I ever claimed to have close connections with any police.

Many posters here over the last few months are perplexed by you super-human efforts to defend the investigation by the RTP or to get to 1,000,000 posts ... whichever comes first.

I think you have close relations with the RTP. That's ok ... but you should declare your loyalties if you want to be taken seriously.

I think you have mentioned a few times over the last couple of months that you have 2 legally licensed firearms.

I have been involved in the shooting sports for over 30 years in a number of countries. I know guys here in Thailand who have been shooting competatively for years. I know one guy who came to Thailand to help with their IPSC National Team 15 years ago ... who shoots with the police team on a provincial level.

Not EVEN ONE of those Farang have managed to get a firearm legally licensed in Thailand in their name. Despite having good contacts and friends in the RTP -applications always get quite far up the food chain and then knocked back.

But you managed it. Well done .... but I know how high up you need to go to achieve that.

[jdinasia]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

Could you please explain how releasing the findings of the UK police team to the defense, which would be normal practice in the UK, is interfering in the Thai judicial system.

Surely having those findings would help the defense in getting the Burmese a fair trial, which you say you support.

Because Thailand is not in the UK.

[jdinasia]

Since you seem intent on lying, it is time to ask. Where have I Praised the RTP?

Well .. you do have VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal. Seems only right you would defend them.

Umm no I don't have "VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal*". (sic)

Nor have I ever claimed to have close connections with any police.

Many posters here over the last few months are perplexed by you super-human efforts to defend the investigation by the RTP or to get to 1,000,000 posts ... whichever comes first.

I think you have close relations with the RTP. That's ok ... but you should declare your loyalties if you want to be taken seriously.

I think you have mentioned a few times over the last couple of months that you have 2 legally licensed firearms.

I have been involved in the shooting sports for over 30 years in a number of countries. I know guys here in Thailand who have been shooting competatively for years. I know one guy who came to Thailand to help with their IPSC National Team 15 years ago ... who shoots with the police team on a provincial level.

Not EVEN ONE of those Farang have managed to get a firearm legally licensed in Thailand in their name. Despite having good contacts and friends in the RTP -applications always get quite far up the food chain and then knocked back.

But you managed it. Well done .... but I know how high up you need to go to achieve that.

I have no connection to the RTP.

More than one member of TVF have licences for firearms. I shoot at ranges owned by RTARF and the RTA.

[Robroona]

jdinasia post # 140

Collective punishment is OK with you?

No difference to the agenda you so strongly support against two non Thai's.

My "agenda" is a trial.

Does your agenda call for a FAIR trial? With both sides having equal access to evidence and time to prepare the defence from these statements?

Somehow, I think not

[jdinasia]

jdinasia post # 140

Collective punishment is OK with you?

No difference to the agenda you so strongly support against two non Thai's.

My "agenda" is a trial.

Does your agenda call for a FAIR trial? With both sides having equal access to evidence and time to prepare the defence from these statements?

Somehow, I think not

You think wrong.

[BoristheBlade]

I have stated that it would be an act of evil for Thailand to convict and execute the two Burmese suspects for this crime.

I would like to make a correction.

It would be an act of EVIL for the Thai and British Governments to allow these two men to be scapegoats for the murder of the two British victims.

David Cameron hang your head in shame, if you consider yourself a decent human being, please intervene. Release the details of the British Police Report to the Burmese defence lawyers immediately.

The two Burmese deserve a fair and honest trial. They are not getting that!

Mr Cameron, Please help!

[slipperx]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

Could you please explain how releasing the findings of the UK police team to the defense, which would be normal practice in the UK, is interfering in the Thai judicial system.

Surely having those findings would help the defense in getting the Burmese a fair trial, which you say you support.

Because Thailand is not in the UK.

With respect that does not answer the question! If there is evidence then It should be disclosed - that is nothing whatsoever to do with interfering in the Thai judicial system. The Thai judicial system does not care where the evidence comes from as long as it is true and real. Those who are involved in bringing the case the police and people who may be involved in a bad way may not like it especially if it exposes fraud and corruption but then those people are NOT the Thai judicial system

If anything the media release to the world of the families statements is interference in the Thai judicial system of far greater importance than a private disclosure of evidence to the lawyers for the Defence. Your argument is specious.

Edited December 11, 2014 by slipperx

[jdinasia]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

Could you please explain how releasing the findings of the UK police team to the defense, which would be normal practice in the UK, is interfering in the Thai judicial system.

Surely having those findings would help the defense in getting the Burmese a fair trial, which you say you support.

Because Thailand is not in the UK.

With respect that does not answer the question! If there is evidence he. It should be disclosed - that is nothing whatsoever to do with interfering in the Thai judicial system. The Thai judicial system does not care where the evidence comes from as long as it is true and real. Those who are involved in bringing the case the police and people who may be involved in a bad way may not like it especially if it exposes fraud and corruption but then those people are NOT the Thai judicial system

If there is information gathered directly by the inquest or by the UK police while in the UK,and it is requested by an officer of the court then that would not be interfering. Anything else would violate the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations.

Edited December 11, 2014 by jdinasia

[BoristheBlade]

"Anything else would violate the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations."

What about the violation of the accused rights?

This is a case which carries the death penalty

Correct me if I am wrong, but Thai law states the accused in a case which carries the said death penalty, MUST have legal representation at all times during interrogation.

It was reported even by the RTP that this was not the case.

Why?

Why are the Burmese not allowed a fair and open trial? Because this is a cover up, thats why.

If these two men are executed, it will be state murder and I for one will find that unacceptable.

[catsanddogs]

This morning from Christopher Harkins :

A call on supporters to email the FCO

Christopher Harkins

U.S. Minor Outlying Islands

10 Dec 2014 — While I have tried repeatedly to contact the FCO, my calls for them to release all evidence related to this case to the Thai defense team have consistently been ignored. I have also called for an official response by the UK government to our original petition but there has been no reply.

In the United Kingdom, once a suspect is indicted all evidence collected by the authorities is released to the suspect’s defense team. This is so that the defense team has ample time to go through the evidence and prepare a proper defense. Unfortunately, in the Thai judicial system this is not the case and the defense team must wait until the first day of court to receive what evidence the authorities have.

All any of us have wanted since the beginning of this horrible ordeal was greater UK involvement in the hopes that this would lead to a clear and transparent investigation, and a fair trial for the accused. While we have been successful in helping to pressure the government to send an investigation team over to Koh Tao, we are not actually aware of what this team did and are now waiting impatiently for the results of that investigation to be made available to the defense team in accordance with UK legal standards.

A lot of us are also deeply concerned with both the timing and the way in which the FCO issued statements from the parents. We have clear legal authorities in the UK saying that if the FCO did this for a UK criminal case, it would be a clear case of 'contempt of court' and hence unlawful.

Many of us simply do not trust the Thai authorities to deliver us justice, and there are serious concerns that they are in the process of rushing through this trial as quickly as possible. This has been made clearly evident with the announcement that the trial has been moved forward by 2 months to December 26th, giving the defense team only 16 days to prepare. Because of this, I call on those that have the time to please write to the FCO and plead with them to release all evidence related to this case.

Please if you have a minute, and agree with our approach, then copy and paste the following message, or write your own, and email it to

“We ask the Foreign Commonwealth Office to please release all evidence collected by the UK authorities into the investigation of the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller to the Thai defense team of Mr Nakhon Chompuchat. This should include all evidence collected by UK investigators during their visit to Koh Tao, as well as all evidence from their own interviews with UK based witnesses and the UK autopsy reports of David and Hannah. The legal defense team of Nakhon Chompuchat has reported its dissatisfaction with the lack of transparent and full cooperation from the FCO and British authorities to their requests for assistance to ensure a fair trial for the accused. We believe the current actions of the FCO to be unacceptable and demand all evidence be made available to the defense team in accordance with UK legal standards.”

I would also like to mention that the Migrant Workers Rights Network has published a detailed list of the donations spending on their website which I have linked below. We are still accepting letters of support to Win and Zaw at , and if you would also like to donate it is very much appreciated.

Thank you again for your support as we continue to fight for justice for David and Hannah.

Done. Email sent.

[AleG]

I have stated that it would be an act of evil for Thailand to convict and execute the two Burmese suspects for this crime.

I would like to make a correction.

It would be an act of EVIL for the Thai and British Governments to allow these two men to be scapegoats for the murder of the two British victims.

David Cameron hang your head in shame, if you consider yourself a decent human being, please intervene. Release the details of the British Police Report to the Burmese defence lawyers immediately.

The two Burmese deserve a fair and honest trial. They are not getting that!

Mr Cameron, Please help!

You don't want a trial, fair or otherwise, you have already decided they are innocent.

[Johnny S]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

[catsanddogs]

• Peter Walker

The Guardian, Wednesday 10 December 2014 20.30 GMT

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/concern-trial-burmese-men-charged-murder-uk-tourists

“The British government opposes the death penalty in all circumstances, yet it appears that their actions in this case could be contributing to death sentences for Burmese migrants after an extremely unfair trial. The UK should adhere to their policy on the death penalty and should urge the Thai authorities to conduct a fair and open trial that does not result in the executions of potentially innocent individuals.”

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.

Email to request they make all evidence available to the defence team in order to provide fairness to the suspects.

[anon022]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

Could you please explain how releasing the findings of the UK police team to the defense, which would be normal practice in the UK, is interfering in the Thai judicial system.

Surely having those findings would help the defense in getting the Burmese a fair trial, which you say you support.

Because Thailand is not in the UK.

Derailing a discussion forum by posting numerous consecutive posts, does not improve your credibility rating by any standard, other than tour own buddy!

[jdinasia]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

[StealthEnergiser]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

Get your facts right there is no high probability at all that is your opinion which is worth nothing.

[jdinasia]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

Get your facts right there is no high probability at all that is your opinion which is worth nothing.

My opinion is not based on conspiracy theories.

[hughben]

If found guilty, the suspects can appeal to the Appeals Court and then the Supreme Court. This will take years.

Whilst sitting in a Thai jail?

There, anything could happen to them to put this whole thing to bed.

[sabaitoo]

My opinion is not based on conspiracy theories.

Opinions are like ( deleted - holes ) , Everyone has one, Some bigger than Others

Edited December 11, 2014 by sabaitoo

[sambum]

Good, the quicker this is put to bed the better for everyone. Happy New Year Koh Tao. See you soon for another great diving holiday on yoir beautiful coral reefs and sun kissed beaches. Amen.

Good to see, that some haven;t lost their sense of humor and sarcasm!

No - he means it! He's a nutter who can't see the "clear and transparent" reasons for bringing the case forward.

[Vejo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

Get your facts right there is no high probability at all that is your opinion which is worth nothing.

My opinion is not based on conspiracy theories.

In the absence of an accurate trial your opinion is just a different conspiracy theory. You are not claiming to be an eye witness, we are all privy to the same snippets of information, interpretation is down to the individual. Not everybody has or wants the luxury of living their lives through an internet forum. Whether you kill the occasional 10 minutes or make it your raison d'etre to prove and score points on here, none of us witnesses, you can choose to promote your opinions 24/7 they are still built on the distinct lack of real evidence that made the prosecutor return the case numerous times.

[jdinasia]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

Get your facts right there is no high probability at all that is your opinion which is worth nothing.

My opinion is not based on conspiracy theories.

In the absence of an accurate trial your opinion is just a different conspiracy theory. You are not claiming to be an eye witness, we are all privy to the same snippets of information, interpretation is down to the individual. Not everybody has or wants the luxury of living their lives through an internet forum. Whether you kill the occasional 10 minutes or make it your raison d'etre to prove and score points on here, none of us witnesses, you can choose to promote your opinions 24/7 they are still built on the distinct lack of real evidence that made the prosecutor return the case numerous times.

What exactly is the conspiracy theory you suggest I am promoting?

[siampolee]

Well below is the truth of the matter as seen by the open minded majority of posters here concerning the police force investigation concerning the Koh Tao murders and the accused scapegoat innocents.

Conspiracy

Definition cannot be released because the R.T.P. are keeping it a secret.

There is no conspiracy here, everyone please relax and pay no attention to anyone besides us, we're the only true source of information. = R.T.P.

Edited December 12, 2014 by CharlieH

[StealthEnergiser]

Does anyone think on all the Koh Tao related threads that there is a very small group of people that give an very strong impression that they want the Burmese boys jailed or executed without a fair trial.

No need to say names as we don’t want it to be personal .

Does it look like this group are posting almost 24 hours a day .

Should posters be concerned about this small group ?

Could they have an agenda and be protecting other people .

<removed paid to post comment>

99% posters on thai visa want the truth and are very concerned that the burmese boys are innocent , do you think this small group flood the threads and may be trying to stop the truth.

Do you think it is a good idea to not answer and ignore these posters ?

We all want to give respect to both families and the burmese boys a better chance at a fair trial.

This is not about moderation so please don’t discuss the mods but if you want to complain to just send a message through the message system.

Edited December 12, 2014 by ubonjoe

[anon022]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Heal the people of KT you say ... Rather put them "away" - <deleted> stinking Island-people. How many on stinky KT know the real truth about these horrific crimes and keep their cowardmouth shut ?

As other people suggest: Sink this hellhole of an Island in Ocean - hope you can get a drink with some murderers there and support their criminal economy, have an awful trip and dont get yourself killed ...

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a high probability that the 2 Burmese men in custody are the murderers.

Now you're talking, spot on!

[BoristheBlade]

I do think the Burmese are not guilty and for a reason.

I have not seen one piece of evidence to surgest they killed or raped.

They were on the beach that night, they have never denied that. But, there were many people on that beach.

I believe Sean was at the very least a witness to these murders, and personally believe he was involved to a far greater level. Why was he threatened with his life? Why did he leave the Island quickly with the assistance of the local police? Cover up that's why, not for Sean personally, but to keep Seans friends out of the spotlight.

I have stated that it would be an act of evil for Thailand to convict and execute the two Burmese suspects for this crime.

I would like to make a correction.

It would be an act of EVIL for the Thai and British Governments to allow these two men to be scapegoats for the murder of the two British victims.

David Cameron hang your head in shame, if you consider yourself a decent human being, please intervene. Release the details of the British Police Report to the Burmese defence lawyers immediately.

The two Burmese deserve a fair and honest trial. They are not getting that!

Mr Cameron, Please help!

You don't want a trial, fair or otherwise, you have already decided they are innocent.

Edited December 12, 2014 by BoristheBlade