Farmers issue ultimatum over rubber price

[Thailand]

Interesting to see some posters are OK with the military using force against the farmers. Quite amazing.

Why not.. what is the difference between rice farmers holding the country hostage or rubber farmers ? Both should learn its time to stop subsidizing them. Else this can go on forever.

Murder or maim a few farmers if they protest? Seriously?

How could you possibly advocate something like that!

[tingtong]

A short time ago rice subsidy led to the overthrowing of the legit government, whose supporters were mostly rice farmers!

Now, the rubber subsidy threats the junta with the same faith, whose the supporters tend to be those rubber farmers.

Same same, but different. TiT.

[LuckyLew]

I guess these guys have already forgotten what happens when the goverment buys something for more than they can sell it.

They have not forgotten, they remember the previous governement paying rice farmers over the odds so now they want over the odds for rubber. They not care about the mess it has left ... they just want more money .... me me me

[somo]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

[robblok]

Interesting to see some posters are OK with the military using force against the farmers. Quite amazing.

Why not.. what is the difference between rice farmers holding the country hostage or rubber farmers ? Both should learn its time to stop subsidizing them. Else this can go on forever.

Murder or maim a few farmers if they protest? Seriously?

How could you possibly advocate something like that!

Doing nothing wont solve it.. But not talking here about murdering the farmers. However if they bring weapons and start a fight then its their own doing.

This country should stop letting groups taking it hostage.

[robblok]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

[DLock]

I'm not sure I have the correct rubber price index, but here is a 10 year price chart of rubber.

Pretty sure the famers were living large a few years ago, but now that the price has slumped, somehow the Government has to subsidize them?

Tell them to bounce.

[somo]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

A lot of people in the UK resent the fact that they have to subsidise french farmers but it still goes on after many years.

It is political. Farmers are a powerful voting group + countries naturally want to be self sufficient in food. These forces attract taxpayers money and they are a fact of life we all have to live with.

The same forces are now at work here with the same result. The government has no choice but to divert money into the farming sector one way or another.To let it die would be disasterous for Thailand where an even higher proportion of voters work on the land.

Why are you so anti?

[robblok]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

A lot of people in the UK resent the fact that they have to subsidise french farmers but it still goes on after many years.

It is political. Farmers are a powerful voting group + countries naturally want to be self sufficient in food. These forces attract taxpayers money and they are a fact of life we all have to live with.

The same forces are now at work here with the same result. The government has no choice but to divert money into the farming sector one way or another.To let it die would be disasterous for Thailand where an even higher proportion of voters work on the land.

Why are you so anti?

No need to live with it things can change.. (and I sure want them to change in Europe too)

I am anti any kind of subsidie, for farmers or others. But especially farmers. People who are self employed and make choices. They should not cry when their choices go wrong. If someone fires an employee he wont burn or pillage to get his point across farmers do.

Edited December 10, 2014 by robblok

[smutcakes]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

A lot of people in the UK resent the fact that they have to subsidise french farmers but it still goes on after many years.

It is political. Farmers are a powerful voting group + countries naturally want to be self sufficient in food. These forces attract taxpayers money and they are a fact of life we all have to live with.

The same forces are now at work here with the same result. The government has no choice but to divert money into the farming sector one way or another.To let it die would be disasterous for Thailand where an even higher proportion of voters work on the land.

Why are you so anti?

No need to live with it things can change.. (and I sure want them to change in Europe too)

I am anti any kind of subsidie, for farmers or others. But especially farmers. People who are self employed and make choices. They should not cry when their choices go wrong. If someone fires an employee he wont burn or pillage to get his point across farmers do.

People who live on flood plains also make choices but it did not stop you crying about the Govt when it flooded. You made your choice, dont cry when it goes wrong. Practice what you preach.

[somo]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

A lot of people in the UK resent the fact that they have to subsidise french farmers but it still goes on after many years.

It is political. Farmers are a powerful voting group + countries naturally want to be self sufficient in food. These forces attract taxpayers money and they are a fact of life we all have to live with.

The same forces are now at work here with the same result. The government has no choice but to divert money into the farming sector one way or another.To let it die would be disasterous for Thailand where an even higher proportion of voters work on the land.

Why are you so anti?

No need to live with it things can change.. (and I sure want them to change in Europe too)

I am anti any kind of subsidie, for farmers or others. But especially farmers. People who are self employed and make choices. They should not cry when their choices go wrong. If someone fires an employee he wont burn or pillage to get his point across farmers do.

Sounds like you anti government full stop. Sudsidy is what government is about. They redirect money from one area of the economy to another. Are you against health care for all? Are you against unemployment benefits? It is about trying to create a fairer society where the better off sectors help out the needy especially where the needy provide something like self sufficiency in food.

You seem to be suggesting a total free for all where the poor and needy just die. The US tea party may welcome you but they are just a joke in most peoples eyes.

[nithisa78]

So what will the unelected government do here?

Simply open threats of dissent and rallies from the farmers. Force against the grass roots of the Thai economy? Capitulation and more subsidies?

Worst case scenario.This has the potential to turn in to a major us and them confrontation which could escalate.

I hope that the junta is not as stupid as the PTP government. Farmers should know that prices fluctuate, you did not hear them complain when prices were high. Same goes for the rice no subsidies not on rice not on rubber. Its too expensive and gives no motivation to change to other crops or to be innovative.

Farmers are far to militant all over the world and they always seem to complain. If I do something that is not profitable I don't force the government to support me I change.

Only thing I am in favor of is for all farmers to give them some money to change their ways not to permanently support them. We seen how bad that ended last time.

Friend, Your statement is odd. Aren't you complaining too? Or just putting people you know nothing about down? Who complains when they're on a roll. Is the entire world entitled to human nature as long as it excludes Thai poeple. There is only one race. The human race and it isn't a contest. More of a journey.

[robblok]

No need to live with it things can change.. (and I sure want them to change in Europe too)

I am anti any kind of subsidie, for farmers or others. But especially farmers. People who are self employed and make choices. They should not cry when their choices go wrong. If someone fires an employee he wont burn or pillage to get his point across farmers do.

People who live on flood plains also make choices but it did not stop you crying about the Govt when it flooded. You made your choice, dont cry when it goes wrong. Practice what you preach.

Did not cry about the place flooding cried because we were lied to and given bad info different story. Now go and play and stay on topic.

[robblok]

Sounds like you anti government full stop. Sudsidy is what government is about. They redirect money from one area of the economy to another. Are you against health care for all? Are you against unemployment benefits? It is about trying to create a fairer society where the better off sectors help out the needy especially where the needy provide something like self sufficiency in food.

You seem to be suggesting a total free for all where the poor and needy just die. The US tea party may welcome you but they are just a joke in most peoples eyes.

I am not against goverments, but they should remain small and not fat on the money of their citizens. I am not against healthcare if everyone pays into the scheme. I am not against unemployment benefits because (strange that you dont know) you pay for it yourself and usually how long you get it depends on how long you paid into the scheme.

I am against doing stuff that obviously is not cost effective. If products are cheap don't make them let the market decide. We seen what happens (eastern block anyone) what happens if you subsidize stuff that is not market effective. Helping farmers change, that is ok, constantly paying them is not.

[The Deerhunter]

I guess these guys have already forgotten what happens when the goverment buys something for more than they can sell it.

They may even wave flags welcoming YL back if she promises to repeat the Rice scheme as a rubber scheme. It beggars belief really. The Thai government is to blame because too many people in too many countries are growing rubber. Whats next? Perhaps a warning that if your barber or tuktuk driver start recommending you grow a certain crop, then you have probably missed the peak already, would be in order, like taking stock market tips from a New York cabbie.

[kaorop]

So the cabinet has approved a 10 BILLION Baht sure up for the rubber farmers, and counting............................

YOU PLANTED THE RUBBER TREES BOY'S so now do what the rest of us do wait for the world price to rise or do something els,

OR you could do what you did last time and get your hero the masquerading monk Suthep to protest and collect bag's of money in your name and that will magically disappear also, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT SUCKERS

10 billion.. a drip compared to the rice scam.. believe they gave the rice farmers also 1000 baht per rai (this goverment). I ihad hoped they would stop the handouts to farmers. Rubber farmers included.

most governments around the world subsidize local farming, i remember reading about teh corn subsidies in the good ole u s of a, huge sums.

wheat in oz, etc etc etc etc. good or bad i dont know but its common practice and thailand is not out on its own.

[Krataiboy]

This will not end well if they follow through with their threats.

I don't think they have grasped the fact that Thailand is a very small part of the world economy and the Thai government cannot control everything.

Well said, sir. Now all you have to do is convince the Thai government that they cannot control everything.

[Thai at Heart]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

What does one break farmer into?

A far and a mer?

[retsdon]

So the cabinet has approved a 10 BILLION Baht sure up for the rubber farmers, and counting............................

YOU PLANTED THE RUBBER TREES BOY'S so now do what the rest of us do wait for the world price to rise or do something els,

OR you could do what you did last time and get your hero the masquerading monk Suthep to protest and collect bag's of money in your name and that will magically disappear also, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT SUCKERS

10 billion.. a drip compared to the rice scam.. believe they gave the rice farmers also 1000 baht per rai (this goverment). I ihad hoped they would stop the handouts to farmers. Rubber farmers included.

most governments around the world subsidize local farming, i remember reading about teh corn subsidies in the good ole u s of a, huge sums.

wheat in oz, etc etc etc etc. good or bad i dont know but its common practice and thailand is not out on its own.

It's unclear how many are what you'd call proper farmers. An awful lot of hopefuls jumped on the rubber bandwagon during the China building boom. Trees were going in all over the country, even in the far north where rubber has never traditionally been grown and there's a 3 month winter with almost no production at all. Compete insanity when you're looking at a 30 year investment based on an anomalous price IMHO. In any event, a lot of the 'rubber farmers' are, if truth be known, simply speculators who were chasing unsustainable returns during a totally abnormal commodities price spike.

The bubble has now burst and commodity prices across the board - including rubber- have since taken a hit and retreated back towards historic norms. Prices aren't going back to what they were when these speculative trees were planted at all in the forseeable future, so a lot of people are going to take a hit.

Unfortunately that's what happens sometimes when greed overmasters prudence. It's the way of the world.

[tonbridgebrit]

[Thaddeus]

What do you get if you cross rubber with rice?

I've no idea, but I bet it bounces.

[Kooweerup]

if demand for rubber around the world is down it would be foolish to raise the price. Thais seem to have an attitude that if customers are not checking into hotels or buying products then raise your prices to cover losses. All this only means the other customers will then stop buying because the product is to expensive.

I believe that Thailand is the largest producer of tree rubber but if they raise their prices they may loose this mantle as customers look to say Indonesia. I am sure everyone remembers the rice saga.

[robblok]

Why so much anti farm subsidy comment here?

It is normal almost everywhere in the world for governments to support their farmers but here we have a bunch of expats telling Thai farmers to get their act together or suffer the consequences. Corruption is also endemic in the schemes but in Europe and the USA they call it exploiting the rules or making the best of an opportunity. Either way the taxpayer fronts up the dosh to achieve a national goal of having a thriving farm sector. Thailand is late to this practice but their farmers do need help. Farm subsidy and free health service are 2 things the man everyone loves to hate bought to this country and they are not going to go away and nor should they.

I am anti farmer subsidies in Europe too. its crazy that a large part of the budget goes to farmers. No other group has so much power and is so militant as farmers. Its time to break them, why should the taxpayer pay for it. I am against taxpayers helping farmers out. Especially in Europe with many wealthy farmers.

What does one break farmer into?

A far and a mer?

Into a non militant one, one that does not threaten governments.

[Toknarok]

The main use for rubber is in vehicle tyres. Tyres can be manufactured from latex or a mixture of latex and petroleum by-products. When the price of oil is high tyre manufacturers use more latex in their product, low oil prices - less latex more oil. The price of oil at the moment is the lowest it has been for decades -$50 a barrel - they are practically giving thestuff away at present. Overproduction of latex and low oil prices paints a very bleak picture for Thai rubber farmers.

Was speaking to a friend yesterday who has about 30 rai of rubber just coming into production, it's hardly worth his while harvesting, he's going to flatten the lot and go back to rice or other crops. Seven years down the drain. I've no doubt many others will be contemplating doing the same.

[rickirs]

The Junta wanted to have the loyalties of Thai farmers to show the nation and the world that the Junta had legitimacy in overthrowing the government. And it did that in large part by paying for that loyalty. Who would be surprised that the farmers political loyalty was shallow and money-driven? But apparently the Junta was.

Now Gen. Prayuth is beginning to experience the complexity of governing a nation with all its diversity of political agendas and citizen self-interests but unfortunately he and the military seem ill-trained to deal in a reasonable and functional manner with the conflicts, albeit with tighter military control over the people. There is now speculation that within military ranks a coup against a coup might develop to carry out more restrictive controls over the Thai government. If you see flag officers suddenly getting transferred to dead-in commands or quickly retired, such a coup will have already happened and we'll have a new self-appointed PM. But he won't be a dictator!

[farangmick]

Remember years ago in England when the price of pork fell through the floor as Danish and Dutch bacon was far cheaper. English pig farmers were on every local news programme "squealing" that they could not survive, and begging people to buy British. At the same time Land Rover was not doing well, with jobs on the line. Whenever a thinking journalist asked the pig farmers why everyone should buy British pork when they were driving a Nissan Patrol, Toyota Landcruiser or Isuzu Trooper, the reply was "Errr, umm, well, err..". It is bred into farmers worldwide to tell everyone that they are on the verge of bankruptcy or destitution. Ever see smiling farmers in the pub agreeing that the weather had been just right?