Smoke, Smog, Dust 2015 Chiang Mai

[blueyeshk]

My solution: greetings from bali

[blueyeshk]

It's useless try to explain, understand, analyze or even change them - dozens of reasons given why they do this - there is just one way - leave by February and if you like return in May.

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

6) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[vivid]

Interesting stuff there vivid and glad to see they are finally acknowledging that the locals are burning. The official line will always be "haze" rather than "harmful particulates" or "smog". Here is a photo a friend sent from yesterday. Setting the fires on Thai soil is still going on vigorously in the forests. If there is a ban in effect, the word does not appear to be getting out.

Fire up.jpg

t-dogs pic is worth its weight in gold

to all u armchair experts and . number crunching drongos

the hill in the pic can be lit up within 30 to 45 mins by two men (govt controlled ) one has a cannister of fuel with a long spout in which he leads the way dropping the fuel in a line whilst transversing the hill, the second man is approx 50 meteres behind lighting up the line of dropped fuel..,when completed, all lines of fuel burning, link up to each other

Like this?

[vivid]

Luckily the soil beneath is not peat like in Indonesia. If it were to be peat, it'd look like this.

[vivid]

Some good points there happy joe. The mental aspect is very powerful and has been proven in many studies when placebo's are used. However a lot of people puffing away on fags in the 1950's were not worrying about lung cancer but they still got it in later years.

I was cycling down doi suthip at about 20:00 this evening and as I neared the bottom the air apart from feeling oven hot compared to higher up, the air was sweaty and I could feel the moisture in it. Not very scientific but my own feeling matches up with those insects appearing, some rain is due.

What I can see is that next Wednesday is the first shower for CM. Perhaps Tue too but small and short isolated showers don't do much.

Though you'd need the whole region (several countries esp NE Thailand + Myanmar) to be really soaking wet, not just 1 or 2 provinces.

[evenstevens]

Interesting stuff there vivid and glad to see they are finally acknowledging that the locals are burning. The official line will always be "haze" rather than "harmful particulates" or "smog". Here is a photo a friend sent from yesterday. Setting the fires on Thai soil is still going on vigorously in the forests. If there is a ban in effect, the word does not appear to be getting out.

Fire up.jpg

t-dogs pic is worth its weight in gold

to all u armchair experts and . number crunching drongos

the hill in the pic can be lit up within 30 to 45 mins by two men (govt controlled ) one has a cannister of fuel with a long spout in which he leads the way dropping the fuel in a line whilst transversing the hill, the second man is approx 50 meteres behind lighting up the line of dropped fuel..,when completed, all lines of fuel burning, link up to each other

Like this?

@ avid.... as it was approx 250 metres away , early nite fall, i was unable to see the cannister clearly , but was able to follow the practices being excuted, the cannisters are often used in my home country(australia) when back burning is needed

also have seen pics of them mounted on ATV, a nice afternoon to all

[Greydog]

Evenstevens... I have heard rumors of the army doing that, but have not personally witnessed it. What I have seen are locals going up to torch the forests for mushrooms. Up in Mae Taeng right now, they are out trying to get 100% coverage so they are indeed going back up to light more fires. If the government is setting the fires, that would indeed be a travesty.

Just because soldiers are setting fires doesn't mean the Government is behind it. Thailand is run by clans and different clans control different parts of the military, the police, the bureaucracy etc.

[Sparkles]

City Life reported this week that the local CM government had a talk fest attended by 200 people, including academics and they came to the conclusion that there was a problem.

Mind boggling incompetence. Talking to long time Chiang Mai Thai residents in my village they just shrug their shoulders and say "what can we do ?" While you have that mindset, led by fools in a

postion to do something, expect it to continue year in year out

[vivid]

Ok, got some time to crunch more numbers from my armchair!!!

36r CM

First week of March, average PM2.5 for the whole week = 98ug/m3

Second week of March, average PM2.5 for the whole week = 155 ug/m3

Third week of March, average PM2.5 for the whole week = 188 ug/m3

So the past week has been quite "painful".

[vivid]

[chiang mai]

Well, who'd have thunk it, there's far more hotspots in Myanmar than in Thailand, I'm shocked!

[Mapguy]

A few hundred posts ago someone made the claim that air pollution (with reference to PM<10) has gotten worse and worse in recent years. A lot of people believe this, it seems, although, according to Priceless, who used to be our resident number cruncher, with all data available on Chiang Mai, found this simply was
not so. The trend line was downward. Two modest concerns: There have only been two regular reporting stations in Chiang Mai, basically in Muang, for the entire province, and the data only go back twenty years or so. So, you have to accept that those two stations are reasonably representative of the whole valley, keeping In mind some understandable variation --- such as your neighbor burning trash under your bedroom window --- and you have to agree that the length of the trend line is sufficient. I believe both valid enough. Still, of course, there is variation from year to year. Rotten years of 2007 and this year come to mind, but one recent year --- perhaps 2010 or 2011, but check the chart posted pretty far above --- was actually almost pleasant.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mapguy

[CNXBKKMAN]

Singapore Air Force Chinook over the city today.

[T_Dog]

Singapore Air Force Chinook over the city today.

Wish they would get west of Mae Rim and put out the two fires still smoldering up there. The winds came up and the air cleared so I got out for mountain bike ride and lots of new burning over the last ten days since was last up. Still some smoldering away but hopefully we are on the downside of this season. Didn't see any smoke to the north which is another promising sign.

[CNXBKKMAN]

The chinook came from north side of the city so it may be working up your way. I cycled from the 700 year stadium to Huay Tung Tao last week through the forest. One small positive about all the burning is that it really opens up the trails and gives more lines to take. Where the trail may have been narrow its now a wide open and quite handy for any tricky bits.

[Mapguy]

Now, watch the Chinook squadron with its minuscule water buckets, which do help in limited way (with good aim) to (maybe) dampen a fire a flight, take credit for today's significant drop in air pollution!

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

Moving right along, we can definitely identify a new boogieman: corn cultivators. First, rice farmers, then mushroom collectors, now corn farmers. And don't think the government doesn't know about it! Previously, from time to time, we have been talking --- although not enough --- about cultivating new land for crops. Corn cultivation is the "new" big-time culprit in Thailand. Stay tuned! Nationwide, we will be increasingly watching (if it is at all publicised) an intense debate regarding economic and agricultural policy and the impact on public health policy.

[Awk]

Now, watch the Chinook squadron with its minuscule water buckets, which do help in limited way (with good aim) to (maybe) dampen a fire a flight, take credit for today's significant drop in air pollution!

Who does the credit belong to? I have no idea, but there's an almost incredible drop in the pm 2.5/pm10 levels for station 36t during the last few days, and as of last hour reported, 21:00, pm10 is still dropping, though one cannot say for sure what is happening to pm2.5 right now. Starting to go back up possibly.

Myself, I don't see the point of ridiculing the attempts at improving conditions by dropping water or seeding clouds. I'm just happy some people are trying, and I am sure the people who organise it know a hell lot more than any of us posting here.

[vivid]

[blueyeshk]

Well There were some thunderstorms in lampang , northeast and central so this might have eased the situation a bit but it should be short lived and anyway not sufficient.

[vivid]

MHS getting smoked again after thebdrop. PM10 287ug/m3

[Berkshire]

Wow, what happened today? We've got good air!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes.

Let the record show that it did not require any direct rain on top of Chiang Mai for a clearing effect to happen.

Just more wind (from different directions) caused the easing effect, along with a big jump in temperature. (Proper hot season weather).

Hopefully it will actually mean the hot season started. (Although I can also see the haze creeping back in for another go.)

Edited March 23, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Sparkles]

Wow, what happened today? We've got good air!

As WTK said wind change,despite rumours spraying water into the air and on the roads had nothing to do with it.Its 6.15 pm in Banwangtan ,Hang Dong and a thunderstorm overhead but little rain as yet.

[john_bkk919]

Yes, the wind that typically comes before rain resulted in partial clearing. Not exactly great air quality today, a mildly smoggy 50+ aqi, but better.

Now, after the rain, we might have something like good air. You know, the kind without visible particulate matter.

Edited March 23, 2015 by john_bkk919

[happy Joe]

It rains, it rains !

As announced finally

[chiang mai]

Residents north of Chiang Mai are less happy, no rain here whatsoever, boo hoo, sadly, the Mae Tang reservoir will not benefit from the euphoria in Hang Dong..

[Mapguy]

Now, watch the Chinook squadron with its minuscule water buckets, which do help in limited way (with good aim) to (maybe) dampen a fire a flight, take credit for today's significant drop in air pollution!

Who does the credit belong to? I have no idea, but there's an almost incredible drop in the pm 2.5/pm10 levels for station 36t during the last few days, and as of last hour reported, 21:00, pm10 is still dropping, though one cannot say for sure what is happening to pm2.5 right now. Starting to go back up possibly.

Myself, I don't see the point of ridiculing the attempts at improving conditions by dropping water or seeding clouds. I'm just happy some people are trying, and I am sure the people who organise it know a hell lot more than any of us posting here.

I understand your point of view, but if you've been around a while you come to appreciate the shallow nature of the military establishment's participation in the battle to control air pollution and its contribution to the public relations campaign to boost its image as "effective." Over the years, the military (in Chiang Mai, the 3d Army) has participated in the endless but ineffectual meetings to plan for or ameliorate seasonal air pollution.

Two recent examples: The first is the participation in the planning of the absurd demonstration at the Chioang Mai Convention Center held just several days ago of the equipment to ameliorate pollution. Another is the ineffectual mobilization of troops (How many and where, actually in readily identifiable intense areas of burning within very few kilometers of major Army installations north of the city. A third effort is really laughable: The mobilization of a miniscule fleet of aircraft to spray the area !!! Then the Singaporean Army actually lent two Chinooks to Thailand for point pollution control. Well, at least that apparently embarrassed the military enough to launch some Chinooks of its own --- after it had to borrow the water buckets !! People, we are talking about recent action after years of basically no effective action. And it is still not effective.

Now,"ridicule" the PR effort? Heaven forfend! Media are notorious for publishing basically verbatim the press releases of the government, which now is fundamentally the military. Anyone who has been paying attention to this garbage publicity, should recognize it for what it is, so please forgive me after following events for some ten years for some degree of cynical regard.

Bottom line: Yes, Chinooks can be effective on a very limited basis to extinguish point source pollution (not that the effort has been very great). Who does the credit belong to? The answer is not who at all, certainly not the Thai government and military. The recent drop has to do with weather changes. If anything, the miscreants lighting their fields and the forests have been thumbing their noses at the government and the military.

[Awk]

I updated the plot I made a week or so ago, with updated data from station 36t. As can easily be seen, so far this month the pattern has closely followed that of year 2012, which until this year, started out as the worst March of the last four years. If that trend continues, things should become relatively acceptable from now on, and perhaps I will avoid the drive down south, which I have perhaps stupidly been delaying until school break for little Awk begins at the end of this week. Will check again how things look on Thursday/Friday.