NCPO to report its achievements

[DaffyDuck]

citation needed. Please provided the sources for what you "know to not be the case". That'd be interesting.

Well Daffy, do I really need to explain ? How can a mere Thai General report assests worth almost 600 milllion THB ?

I am dying to hear the explanation.

Don't bother, I already know, and so should you, but I guess you are on a mission to justify the unjustifiable.

So, after claiming "what you know to be the case" - when asked to support that claim with sources, you flounce and essentially resort to begging the question (a well-known argumentative fallacy).

In other words, you don't know. In fact, you don't even know what wealth the general has, nor do you actually care. All you care about is throwing out unsubstantiated insinuations of wrongdoings.

You might want to familiarize yourself with Thailand's defamation laws, and how they could apply to you.

Don't worry though - the general and his people realize how irrelevant you are, just like the rest of the readers of your comments. About as much relevance to reality than any button conspiracy opinions about 9/11 'inside jobs'.

[DaffyDuck]

citation needed. Please provided the sources for what you "know to not be the case". That'd be interesting.

Well Daffy, do I really need to explain ? How can a mere Thai General report assests worth almost 600 milllion THB ?

Yes. Yes you do need to explain. Particularly if you have sources to support your 'explanations'.

If you don't - well, then that'd just be lies that you are attempting to spread.

[DaffyDuck]

So, a 600 million baht land sale? ($20 million dollars) Of land that has been in his family since his father? That he's held since he was a kid? So, let's say for 50 years.

Property prices were most likely very low (in comparison) 50 years ago, in the 1950s, when his father managed to buy or inherit 9 parcels of land. This land, being in Bangkok, is certainly worth a premium now, when it probably cost less than $150,000 back then (in today's dollars - probably less than $20,000 of 1950 dollars).

What is questionable about this, again?

[sjaak327]

citation needed. Please provided the sources for what you "know to not be the case". That'd be interesting.

Well Daffy, do I really need to explain ? How can a mere Thai General report assests worth almost 600 milllion THB ?

I am dying to hear the explanation.

Don't bother, I already know, and so should you, but I guess you are on a mission to justify the unjustifiable.

So, after claiming "what you know to be the case" - when asked to support that claim with sources, you flounce and essentially resort to begging the question (a well-known argumentative fallacy).

In other words, you don't know. In fact, you don't even know what wealth the general has, nor do you actually care. All you care about is throwing out unsubstantiated insinuations of wrongdoings.

You might want to familiarize yourself with Thailand's defamation laws, and how they could apply to you.

Don't worry though - the general and his people realize how irrelevant you are, just like the rest of the readers of your comments. About as much relevance to reality than any button conspiracy opinions about 9/11 'inside jobs'.

I did supply the soucre, in fact it is Prayuth himself who declared assets of almost 600 million baht.

Now, how can a Thai general, who isn't corrupt, gain so much wealth. Again, I am dying to get an answer to that questin.

And why not, after all, Thaksin and anyone connected to him, is being painted as corrupt (regardless of the defamation laws you so aptly mentioned) yet suddenly we have to give this bloke a free pass ?

Of course not, firstly he took power by gun point, so that sets him back already, and secondly he claims to be fighting corruption, yet he himself has unexplained wealth and self appointed power.

I personally believe my posts would not lead to a defamation case, but rather one of those camps the junta seems to like so much.

[sjaak327]

So, a 600 million baht land sale? ($20 million dollars) Of land that has been in his family since his father? That he's held since he was a kid? So, let's say for 50 years.

Property prices were most likely very low (in comparison) 50 years ago, in the 1950s, when his father managed to buy or inherit 9 parcels of land. This land, being in Bangkok, is certainly worth a premium now, when it probably cost less than $150,000 back then (in today's dollars - probably less than $20,000 of 1950 dollars).

What is questionable about this, again?

Oh boy, are you really this stupid ? The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million.

Keep defending, keep calling other people ignorant. You have zero credibility left.

I am stopping this exchange now, as it is apparent you are either an idiot or treating me as an idiot.

[DaffyDuck]

I did supply the soucre, in fact it is Prayuth himself who declared assets of almost 600 million baht.

See, and now, predictably enough, you are starting to 'play dumb' - deflecting the actual question, which you know you can't answer.

You insinuated, in no uncertain terms, that you knew HOW Prayuth acquired this wealth. HOW - and insinuating that this was done illegally, or through corruption. Yet, when challenged to provide sources for these accusations, you waffle and play dumb.

Seriously, sjaak, I'm not really surprised at this kind of display of dishonesty. This is exactly how passive-aggressive liars act when they are confronted to put up, or shut up.

In your case, you really should just 'shut up'.

[DaffyDuck]

I am stopping this exchange now, as it is apparent you are either an idiot or treating me as an idiot.

Yes. Run away. Run away as fast as you can, before you are found out for the dishonest liar that you are.

Oh wait ... too late.

[DaffyDuck]

Oh boy, are you really this stupid ? The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million.

Odd - every source in reference to this attributes the LAND SALE to have been for 600 million Baht, while his declared assets BEFORE the sale were for $150 million Baht. Of course, your narrative reads much better if you switch those numbers around, doesn't it?

That's also called 'dishonesty' - which appears to be something you have provided ample evidence for in this exchange - you should have shut long before the moment when you flounced, before you've shown yourself the liar that you are.

http://friendsinthailand.com/2014/11/04/prayuth-on-defensive-over-familys-600-million-baht-property-sale/

"...the 600 million baht land sale he made to a private company last year"

"This means even without the land sale, he already had assets worth 180 million baht."

[Kooweerup]

Can be written on the back of a stamp!!

The brought the global price of oil down ready for new years and stopped all those nasty happy endings.

This seems to be a common chorus of yours. Massage parlor along one specific stretch of road were shut down FOR ONE DAY leading to the arrest of those police officers that extorted tea money from those business' - it is widely known that the shops were able to reopen 24 hours later.

Well, widely known except to people with a dishonest agenda, I guess..

Ok my apologies he didn't target happy ending so that just leaves one thing he has done. The dear leader reduced the world price of oil as they have publically stated as a new year present for Thais. Thanks for pointing out that he has done less than I thought.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Kooweerup

[Kooweerup]

I am stopping this exchange now, as it is apparent you are either an idiot or treating me as an idiot.

Yes. Run away. Run away as fast as you can, before you are found out for the dishonest liar that you are.

Oh wait ... too late.

oh now things are getting very nasty.

[DaffyDuck]

I'm equally curious how much sjaak, tbthailand, et al applaud equally commendable democracy in Cambodia?

[DaffyDuck]

Ok my apologies he didn't target happy ending so that just leaves one thing he has done. The dear leader reduced the world price of oil as they have publically stated as a new year present for Thais. Thanks for pointing out that he has done less than I thought.

Since you employ the same slander and defamation methods of your friend sjaak, I guess suggestion to actually wait for the NCPO provided list would be futile, as you are equally not interested in facts, as long as you can spout your misdirections, insinuations, fabrications and lies.

I assume you would end equally to your buddy sjaak, though - running away when challenged to actually support your insinuations?

Back to waiting for that list from the NCPO...

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed, it was off topic anyway as well as another post.

Please stay on the topic of the thread. That means addressing the issues presented in the post, not in making comments to or about other posters. Doing so is off-topic and your post will be removed and you could face a suspension.

[DaffyDuck]

Cute avatar, metisdead....

[sjaak327]

Oh boy, are you really this stupid ? The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million.

Odd - every source in reference to this attributes the LAND SALE to have been for 600 million Baht, while his declared assets BEFORE the sale were for $150 million Baht. Of course, your narrative reads much better if you switch those numbers around, doesn't it?

That's also called 'dishonesty' - which appears to be something you have provided ample evidence for in this exchange - you should have shut long before the moment when you flounced, before you've shown yourself the liar that you are.

http://friendsinthailand.com/2014/11/04/prayuth-on-defensive-over-familys-600-million-baht-property-sale/

"...the 600 million baht land sale he made to a private company last year"

"[/size]This means even without the land sale, he already had assets worth 180 million baht."[/size]

Before you call someone a liar, maybe read what is being said. The land wasn't owned by Prayuth but by his father. the link you posted says literally:

"Gen Prayut got his share of the land sale of 146.5 million baht, including interest."

Which is the exact same amount I talk about in post 95 which I will quote for your reference: "The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million"

Now as would by now be painfully Obvious, I wasn't talking about 600 million in reference to the land sale but about the assets Prayuth actually declared:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/asia-report/thailand/story/thailands-pm-prayuth-declares-over-4m-assets-20141101

"Thailand's Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha has assets of more than 102 million baht "

and:

"The joint declaration from General Prayuth and his wife, Naraporn - who has an additional 26.3 million baht in assets"

and:

Gen Prayuth's declaration included the transfer of 268 million baht to his father and siblings, and a further 198.5 million baht to his children"

Which in total is almost 600 million baht.

Now instead of screaming liar, why not answer the question, how can a mere Thai general accumulate this amount of wealth ?

[tbthailand]

So, a 600 million baht land sale? ($20 million dollars) Of land that has been in his family since his father? That he's held since he was a kid? So, let's say for 50 years.

Property prices were most likely very low (in comparison) 50 years ago, in the 1950s, when his father managed to buy or inherit 9 parcels of land. This land, being in Bangkok, is certainly worth a premium now, when it probably cost less than $150,000 back then (in today's dollars - probably less than $20,000 of 1950 dollars).

What is questionable about this, again?

Oh boy, are you really this stupid ? The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million.

Keep defending, keep calling other people ignorant. You have zero credibility left.

I am stopping this exchange now, as it is apparent you are either an idiot or treating me as an idiot.

you are far too kind to the quack and his twaddle.

As for the 'PM', the facts that we know at this time are slim, but the sale of the land was done in such a way (off-shore company setup a week before the sale, etc) as to try to cover the tracks of the people paying for the land. That already doesn't pass the sniff test.

The fact that the land belonged to his father means nothing. How often are family members used by the elite to transfer money and assets? Suthep apparently did such a manoeuvre during the PDRC protests this spring. Thaksin, the forum's favorite boogie man has been accused of the same.

The details about the land and the rest of the general's wealth merit investigation, but that is very unlikely to happen at this time. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to know why.

The Quack claims to know all - but he's just a quack and an awfully arrogant troll as well. Oh, and he's yet another junta cheerleader.

Wonderful.

[rubl]

you are far too kind to the quack and his twaddle.

As for the 'PM', the facts that we know at this time are slim, but the sale of the land was done in such a way (off-shore company setup a week before the sale, etc) as to try to cover the tracks of the people paying for the land. That already doesn't pass the sniff test.

The fact that the land belonged to his father means nothing. How often are family members used by the elite to transfer money and assets? Suthep apparently did such a manoeuvre during the PDRC protests this spring. Thaksin, the forum's favorite boogie man has been accused of the same.

The details about the land and the rest of the general's wealth merit investigation, but that is very unlikely to happen at this time. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to know why.

The Quack claims to know all - but he's just a quack and an awfully arrogant troll as well. Oh, and he's yet another junta cheerleader.

Wonderful.

Oh come on, tbthailand. Next you'll quote the Pheu Thai spokesperson Prompong with "I accuse you, prove me wrong". That's what he did with the 'Suthep land case'. He also promised documentation to prove all. Still waiting though.

[lildragon]

Oh boy, are you really this stupid ? The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million.

Odd - every source in reference to this attributes the LAND SALE to have been for 600 million Baht, while his declared assets BEFORE the sale were for $150 million Baht. Of course, your narrative reads much better if you switch those numbers around, doesn't it?

That's also called 'dishonesty' - which appears to be something you have provided ample evidence for in this exchange - you should have shut long before the moment when you flounced, before you've shown yourself the liar that you are.

http://friendsinthailand.com/2014/11/04/prayuth-on-defensive-over-familys-600-million-baht-property-sale/

"...the 600 million baht land sale he made to a private company last year"

"[/size]This means even without the land sale, he already had assets worth 180 million baht."[/size]

Before you call someone a liar, maybe read what is being said. The land wasn't owned by Prayuth but by his father. the link you posted says literally:

"Gen Prayut got his share of the land sale of 146.5 million baht, including interest."

Which is the exact same amount I talk about in post 95 which I will quote for your reference: "The land sale explains only a mere 146.5 million"

Now as would by now be painfully Obvious, I wasn't talking about 600 million in reference to the land sale but about the assets Prayuth actually declared:

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/asia-report/thailand/story/thailands-pm-prayuth-declares-over-4m-assets-20141101

"Thailand's Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha has assets of more than 102 million baht "

and:

"The joint declaration from General Prayuth and his wife, Naraporn - who has an additional 26.3 million baht in assets"

and:

Gen Prayuth's declaration included the transfer of 268 million baht to his father and siblings, and a further 198.5 million baht to his children"

Which in total is almost 600 million baht.

Now instead of screaming liar, why not answer the question, how can a mere Thai general accumulate this amount of wealth ?

BOOM! Head shot

Cheerleaders. You're 'saviors' of Thailand are up to their necks in corruption just as much as the people they 'saved' Thailand from.

It is a bitter pill to swallow I know. But you may as well face up to reality.

[DaffyDuck]

"Thailand's Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha has assets of more than 102 million baht "

and:

"The joint declaration from General Prayuth and his wife, Naraporn - who has an additional 26.3 million baht in assets"

and:

Gen Prayuth's declaration included the transfer of 268 million baht to his father and siblings, and a further 198.5 million baht to his children"

Which in total is almost 600 million baht.

Now instead of screaming liar, why not answer the question, how can a mere Thai general accumulate this amount of wealth ?

Yes, so? The land sale, which this is about, was worth a total of 600 million baht. His share was 146 million. When you then add up the shares that he distributed to his father and to his children, you end up with the stated 600 million baht. Which is exactly what this is about, and which you stated was impossible for a general's salary to achieve (and which I have shown he didn't need to, since the land was over 50 years old, and acquired by his father).

His actual assets declared, before the land sale, were 100 million baht - roughly $3 million dollars. I would hope that, on a generals salary, as a government employee, he would have been able to accumulate $3 million in assets after 30 years of service. That's roughly $100,000 a year, which is not entirely within the realm of impossibility. His salary accounts for at least $50,000 yearly already - smart investments over the years can easily fill in the blanks.

As usual, critics of 'unfathomable wealth' seem incapable of using something as simple as a calculator, and even simpler extrapolation.

Your initial points of contention where the 600 million Baht in land - but I grant you the allowance to backpedal at high speed (as you are doing), once that your initial argument by incredulity had been debunked, with great embarrassment to you.

Edited December 21, 2014 by DaffyDuck

[DaffyDuck]

As for the 'PM', the facts that we know at this time are slim, but the sale of the land was done in such a way (off-shore company setup a week before the sale, etc) as to try to cover the tracks of the people paying for the land. That already doesn't pass the sniff test.

Since the buyer has been disclosed (ie who the company behind the BVI entity is), I guess that master plan must have come undone - or maybe obfuscating the buyer's identity was never what this was about. Yes, offshore companies are frequently used for various reasons - one being the obfuscation of identities, though that wasn't the case here, clearly.

I'm afraid you'll be required to try again with another scenario.

(According to documents from Gen. Prayuth’s asset declaration Col Prapat Chan-o-cha, Gen Prayut’s father, sold nine plots totalling 50 rai in Bangkok’s Bang Bon district to 69 Property Co Ltd on May 9, 2013, seven days after the company was registered (...) The major shareholder of the company when the deal took place had a British Virgin Islands address, Isara News said, citing the Business Development Department’s data. After a capital increase, the major shareholder now is the company linked to Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi, a liquor and property billionaire)

Yeah, quite the coverup...

It's so fun watching you stab around in the dark.

The fact that the land belonged to his father means nothing. How often are family members used by the elite to transfer money and assets?

You're right - damn that Prayuth and his damn Time Machine! Since the land was legitimately acquired by his father over 50 years ago, when Prayuth was a child, I guess criminal use of a Time Machine is the only logical explanation - damn this evil cabal of the Amart - what will they think of next?!

GrandConspiracy argument - it's all the actions of some evil cabal, or other, right?

[DaffyDuck]

Back to waiting for the NCPO list...

[sjaak327]

"Thailand's Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha has assets of more than 102 million baht "

and:

"The joint declaration from General Prayuth and his wife, Naraporn - who has an additional 26.3 million baht in assets"

and:

Gen Prayuth's declaration included the transfer of 268 million baht to his father and siblings, and a further 198.5 million baht to his children"

Which in total is almost 600 million baht.

Now instead of screaming liar, why not answer the question, how can a mere Thai general accumulate this amount of wealth ?

Yes, so? The land sale, which this is about, was worth a total of 600 million baht. His share was 146 million. When you then add up the shares that he distributed to his father and to his children, you end up with the stated 600 million baht. Which is exactly what this is about, and which you stated was impossible for a general's salary to achieve (and which I have shown he didn't need to, since the land was over 50 years old, and acquired by his father).

His actual assets declared, before the land sale, were 100 million baht - roughly $3 million dollars. I would hope that, on a generals salary, as a government employee, he would have been able to accumulate $3 million in assets after 30 years of service. That's roughly $100,000 a year, which is not entirely within the realm of impossibility. His salary accounts for at least $50,000 yearly already - smart investments over the years can easily fill in the blanks.

As usual, critics of 'unfathomable wealth' seem incapable of using something as simple as a calculator, and simple extrapolation.

Your initial points of contention where the 600 million Baht in land - but I grant you the allowance to backpedal at high speed (as you are doing), once that your initial argument by incredulity had been debunked, with great embarrassment to you.

No it hasn't been debunked. In post #72 I mention his asset declaration. I have never mentioned the land sale, you brought it up. I did not "packpedal" at all.

So you are claiming Prayuth sold the land for 600 million baht (land that he didn't own). And subsequently transferred

198.5 million of this to his children and 268 million back to his father and siblings ? Leaving him with a 146.5 million share. Now I already know those three figures do not make 600 million baht, do you see it to ?

But I understand, only people that are elected by the Thai electorate need to disclose their assets and answers difficult questions, people that are self appointed are exempted from this, as they are naturally "above board".

Or to use his own words: ""I don't know. I don't remember," Gen. Prayuth said on 1 November. "I am not a businessman. Please don't ask me about this"

Edited December 21, 2014 by sjaak327

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

They should include the 12 commandments, Moses himself could just come up with 10, so it must be some kind of achievement:

[DaffyDuck]

195.5 + 268 + 146.5 = 613 million baht. Which the media and all reporting round down to 600 million in every single article.

What is your point, sjaak, unless you are confirming being unable to read *or* perform simple addition? Furthermore, the one who actually sold the land, was Prayuth's father (the legitimate owner of the land - which is why he didn't need to declare it as a personal asset initially, until after the sale) - who then split the 613 million baht up in the previously listed portions, assigned to his son and his grand children (at which point they became assets of those individuals).

Again, to anyone actually able to read and perform math, none of this is a big mystery - even his initial personal assets of 100 million baht.

Hence, every single one of your rants has been amply debunked..

Edited December 21, 2014 by DaffyDuck

[sjaak327]

195.5 + 268 + 146.5 = 613 million baht. Which the media and all reporting round down to 600 million in every single article.

What is your point, sjaak, unless you are confirming being unable to read *or* perform simple addition? Furthermore, the one who actually sold the land, was Prayuth's father (the legitimate owner of the land - which is why he didn't need to declare it as a personal asset initially, until after the sale) - who then split the 613 million baht up in the previously listed portions, assigned to his son and his grand children (at which point they became assets of those individuals).

Again, to anyone actually able to read and perform math, none of this is a big mystery - even his initial personal assets of 100 million baht.

Hence, every single one of your rants has been amply debunked..

Ah so his father sold the land. So the logical question would then be why Prayuth is declaring this as part of his asset declaration.

Is this some elaborate tax scheme or something. Father sells the land, transfers the money to Prayuth who then transfers it back to the father, his siblings and his own children.

By the way, asking for disclosure which I am doing isn't a rant. It is a perfectly logical desire, especially when the subject claims to be fighting corruption.

Edited December 21, 2014 by sjaak327

[CharlieH]

Insult/flame Post removed

[DaffyDuck]

Somebody else explain this to him.

[GinBoy2]

Well, hasn't this thread got outta hand! On a general point, which I think addresses many of the he said, she said posts; In general there is a strata of Thai society, which includes, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep and much of the current 'administration' which have historically been the ruling elite. The people recognize that none of them aspire to power primarily for the good of the people, but as a way of lining their own pockets. Ask any Thaksin supporter and they will tell you he's a crook, but he unlike a lot of the other crooks he actually treated them with some respect. It's more of a internecine family feud that goes on amongst them, with the people as the cannon fodder

How any of them acquired their wealth is highly speculative (this isn't a Western democracy, certainly without anything close to investigative journalists) so you can bicker back and forth between yourselves but ultimately you will never know the truth, especially since if truth is out there it's hidden deep in layers of corruption and the threat of defamation or LM. Many government/military employees seem to be extremely wealthy through marriage to extremely rich wives...will someone tell me where to find one of those?

As for the actual topic, well history will write the history of the accomplishments of this current junta in the fullness of time. However given the number of 'practice' coups that have occurred in the past 30 years I sincerely hoping they are updating the 'How To Stage A Coup' textbooks at the military academy, since it clearly hasn't been working so far

Edited December 21, 2014 by GinBoy2

[The Deerhunter]

unelected clowns

But not as destructive to the country so far, as the outcome of governance under the last several governments of elected clowns. A fair person would have to say they have not had long to do much. After 3 or 5 years a fairer comparison would be possible. Right now you are just cherry picking. Which they can do in all forms up in the North.

[The Deerhunter]

Obviously a genuine attempt to consider reform covers many aspects.In the case of the Thai army institutional and pervasive corruption is one of them - though I agree not necessarily the most important of a whole range of abuses.

But don't worry it will never happen.Honest reform of the Thai army is off limits.Heavens to Betsy such a radical approach might even come up with the ridiculous idea that the prime purpose of any army is to protect the country from foreign threats.And that would never do.

It would be just as outrageous as the proposal that the police force should be politically independent and be here to serve and protect the citizens, without fear or favor.