'New chapter' in US-Cuba ties

[NeverSure]

Long overdue and has only taken this long because of our (US) Electoral College system which gives Florida so many presidential votes that the Cuban American community has been able to block any changes in policy for far too many years

I don't understand how that works. The Cuban-American population would like to see relations normalized and would be in favor of this.

This rift between Cuba and the US has gone on through the presidencies of Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, and on and on for decades.

It has been in effect through Republican and Democrat controls of the government and neither side had any inclination to change relationships with Fidel Castro. There is no place to point a finger here. It was always about Fidel Castro and all sides always agreed.

If Raul Castro can convince Obama AND Congress that things would be different with him, it could be done. But even that isn't a done deal yet.

Raul Castro is a Marxist-Leninist politician and revolutionary and I wouldn't place my bets just yet.

The older generation of Cuban-Americans are so anti Castro that they cannot / will not even entertain the idea of normalizing relations. The younger generation, that were born in the US, are open to the normalization process, and want it to happen

Older people vote, and older Cubans vote only for politicians that tow the anti Castro line.

The expression cutting off your nose to spite your face explains the question in your first sentence

I think it's the opposite. I think Obama is trying to pull this off for political purposes. His party just got its butt kicked in a national election, he's out of favor, and he's looking for ways to shore up the base. He's looking for votes for the party in the upcoming POTUS and congressional election.

I think this is what his current "amnesty" push is about and it's what this Cuban thing is about. I think he's looking for the votes from those people.

I truly think that if he believed this wouldn't be popular with Cuban-Americans, Obama would run from this.

[atyclb]

I have the highest hopes for the people of Cuba. They are mostly Catholic, pretty much pacifist, totally passed by with technology, poor, lacking medical facilities, but very nice to strangers.

Lacking medical facilities? Really! They have one of the best health care system in the world.

If people think that Cuba is a kind of banana republic, they are wrong, Cuban are well educated and proud of their Cuban heritage.

We Canadian, have enjoyed good relation with Cuba since the revolution, we did not apply the US isolation politic even when the US tried to pressure us to do so. Oh! And we are free to travel to Cuba whenever we want, and we have Cuban product on our shelves, just bought Cuban coffee today.

Since the end of the 80's our airlines are allowed to do business with Cuba, good change since we don't have to fly in those old Russian Ilyushin aircraft anymore.

I remember in 1980 flying on Cubana, they were not allowed to fly over USA air space so our trip from Montreal to Havana had to take a detour over the Atlantic ocean to avoid USA air space, they did not lose that occasion to make an announcement that the trip was longer because of the US embargo.

Cuban are very welcoming, resilient and resourceful. Did you know that the American people are welcome to travel to Cuba? They don't hate the American people, they hate the US government, but they make a clear distinction between the people and the government.

small correction; theory wise and academically their healthcare system is quite decent however the big problem is lack of supplies and medicines for cuban nationals. facilities that foreigners visit as they pay cash and more than the socialized system for locals, do not make the deficit apparent.

[SOTIRIOS]

...something fishy about this.....

...maybe trying desperately to keep Cuba from allying with other countries....

[Chicog]

Good thing for US travel to Cuba and trade. But I don't want to see Havana turned into Greater Miami. Please, no monster condos lining the beaches solely inhabited by millionaire Euros, New Yorkers, and Silicon Valley vacationers.

Don't forget McDonalds on every corner....

[Chicog]

I can't believe foreign policy can be left so long as to outdated itself, like what's being suggested here.

Sounds like this was well overdue.

Be interested in hearing what the American guys and girls think.

As an American, I for one have long disagreed with the U.S. policy towards Cuba. Of course, the Republicans are already barking about this and looking for ways to sabotage it. This is long overdue...

There are still some alive who remain rankled at the Bay of Pigs debacle which cemented Castro''s grip.

They need to let it go, really.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Chicog

[iReason]

Good thing for US travel to Cuba and trade. But I don't want to see Havana turned into Greater Miami. Please, no monster condos lining the beaches solely inhabited by millionaire Euros, New Yorkers, and Silicon Valley vacationers.

That's what it was becoming. And lined with casinos.

So Castro threw the mafia out.

And the CIA.

Look into United Fruit Co. and their doings in Central America.

http://theoligarchkings.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/united-fruit-company/

The term "Banana Republic" was born of their actions...

Edited December 18, 2014 by iReason

[Qarl]

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Qarl Only fools believe such so called "best health care system" in Cuba, the same as in North Korea, which also claims to have the best health care system and the best educational system in the World. Do you believe that? And yeas, Cubans are nice people, American people and the US government don't hate Cuba and Cubans. Don't confuse Cubans with Cuban Communist government, those are totally two different things.

I am not a fool, Cuba as nothing to do or compare to North Korea, this is pure and simple propaganda. Have you been there to make such a comparison?

Cuba as a better life expectancy than the US, lower child mortality rate and a better literacy rate than the US.

Both Cuba and North Korea are ruled by Communist government, what's the big diffrenece? North Korea also claims to have a better life expectancy than the US, lower child mortality rate and a better literacy rate than the US. You can hear such propaganda in almost every Communist regime, it you want to believe it, go ahead.

There is a big difference, Cuba is not a close country like North Korea. Just by assumption you compare Cuba to North Korea, how about some facts?

The numbers I look for the life expectancy, mortality rate and literacy rate are coming from the CIA World Factbook, last time I check, the CIA was an American organization.

You can also say North Korea is not a close country because it has business relationships with many other countries. You can also find similar numbers from other organizations. Those numbers actually comes form those Communist regimes, neither CIA nor any other organizations have any means to collect the real numbers within those regimes independently.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Qarl

[Jingthing]

I expected Obama to do this during the last portion of his presidency. It isn't a surprise. It would have been surprising if he didn't do this and aware voters, who elected him twice, would know that too. I am no fan of the Castros but I am also no fan of the far right wing Cuban expat extremists in electorally important FLORIDA who were responsible for this taking DECADES longer than it should have.

As far as political cost to future democrats, there really isn't any. Likely in the long run it will be a big political win. The majority of Americans have supported normalization already and younger Cuban-Floridinians mostly support it too! Marco Rubio --- take a hike!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

As I posted earlier, the current leader, Raul Castro is a Marxist-Leninist revolutionary dictator and I wouldn't place my bets just yet.

I personally would like to see a normalizing of relationships for the sake of the people of Cuba, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet as the US government isn't really into Marxist-Leninist military dictators.

What would really bowl me over would be if Raul Castro held elections and either won or let go.

[puck2]

Cubans are mostly nice, hard working people. Many have immigrated to the US. Some risked the 90?? mile trip by boat.

Their government under Fidel Castro was hard-core communist and it probably wasn't possible to normalize relations.

Raul Castro appears to be a lot more moderate and more open to a relationship with the West. It would certainly be to his advantage since its such a tiny island nation which doesn't produce much in the way of consumer manufactured goods.

.......

What a dumb ideology. Following your crude idea, why don't and didn't the US blockade the "hard-core communist" Chinese Peoples Republic for ever? It's the money, st....... (the words of an intelligent US Pres.).

Maybe you should read and learn a little bit more about the history of your home country (but I doubt it, because it is aching). Here are the facts, why Cuba and Castro sailed into the arms of the Soviet Union - at least to a certain part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

excerpt

............

Eisenhower's approval

On 17 March 1960, the CIA put forward their plan for the overthrow of Castro's administration to the U.S. National Security Council (NSC), where it was given the support of U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower. The stated first objective of the plan was to "bring about the replacement of the Castro regime with one more devoted to the true interests of the Cuban people and more acceptable to the U.S. in such a manner to avoid any appearance of U.S. intervention."

........

When Cuba was blocked by the US since 1960 why shouldn't Castro ask for support anywhere else?

I simply call this long political and economical blockade "face saving" arrogance with the typical accessory pack of lying and manipulating.

This all remembers me of the "American" war in Vietnam. The same US attitude. Doi Moi was created in 1986 and the US saved face again for a long time, like a stubborn child.

Edited December 18, 2014 by puck2

[thailiketoo]

Ah, I don't want to interject reality into this fun fantasy but In 1960, Castro nationalized all U.S.-owned businesses, including oil refineries, factories and casinos. This prompted the United States to end diplomatic relations and impose a trade embargo that still stands today.

Castro stole billions of dollars from US owned companies that were owned not by the mob but by average Americans mom and pop stockholders.

So who is going to pay back mom and pop? He stole First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston and Chase Manhattan Bank and Texaco, Esso, and Shell oil refineries. He stole property homes and small businesses from 6000 Americans.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/igraphic.html?p1=Article_Graphic

He owes us 7 billion US dollars. Who gonna pay? I don't care how you guys paint his picture . A thief is a thief. He stole money from me and I want my money back.

Edited December 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[NeverSure]

.......

What a dumb ideology. Following your crude idea, why don't and didn't the US blockade the "hard-core communist" Chinese Peoples Republic for ever? It's the money, st....... (the words of an intelligent US Pres.).

Maybe you should read and learn a little bit more about the history of your home country (but I doubt it, because it is aching). Here are the facts, why Cuba and Castro sailed into the arms of the Soviet Union - at least to a certain part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

excerpt

............

Eisenhower's approval

On 17 March 1960, the CIA put forward their plan for the overthrow of Castro's administration to the U.S. National Security Council (NSC), where it was given the support of U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower. The stated first objective of the plan was to "bring about the replacement of the Castro regime with one more devoted to the true interests of the Cuban people and more acceptable to the U.S. in such a manner to avoid any appearance of U.S. intervention."

........

When Cuba was blocked by the US since 1960 why shouldn't Castro ask for support anywhere else?

I simply call this long political and economical blockade "face saving" arrogance with the typical accessory pack of lying and manipulating.

This all remembers me of the "American" war in Vietnam. The same US attitude. Doi Moi was created in 1986 and the US saved face again for a long time, like a stubborn child.

I think it would help you to study two things.

1. What Thailiketoo posted above and

2. Being tactful.

[Berkshire]

Long overdue and has only taken this long because of our (US) Electoral College system which gives Florida so many presidential votes that the Cuban American community has been able to block any changes in policy for far too many years

I don't understand how that works. The Cuban-American population would like to see relations normalized and would be in favor of this.

This rift between Cuba and the US has gone on through the presidencies of Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, and on and on for decades.

It has been in effect through Republican and Democrat controls of the government and neither side had any inclination to change relationships with Fidel Castro. There is no place to point a finger here. It was always about Fidel Castro and all sides always agreed.

If Raul Castro can convince Obama AND Congress that things would be different with him, it could be done. But even that isn't a done deal yet.

Raul Castro is a Marxist-Leninist politician and revolutionary and I wouldn't place my bets just yet.

The older generation of Cuban-Americans are so anti Castro that they cannot / will not even entertain the idea of normalizing relations. The younger generation, that were born in the US, are open to the normalization process, and want it to happen

Older people vote, and older Cubans vote only for politicians that tow the anti Castro line.

The expression cutting off your nose to spite your face explains the question in your first sentence

I think it's the opposite. I think Obama is trying to pull this off for political purposes. His party just got its butt kicked in a national election, he's out of favor, and he's looking for ways to shore up the base. He's looking for votes for the party in the upcoming POTUS and congressional election.

I think this is what his current "amnesty" push is about and it's what this Cuban thing is about. I think he's looking for the votes from those people.

I truly think that if he believed this wouldn't be popular with Cuban-Americans, Obama would run from this.

I believe Langsuan Man is correct. There is a certain segment of the Cuban-American population (mostly older, the most vocal and politically connected) that would die before agreeing to normalize relations with the Cuban government. There was no appeasing these folks except simply to say "no" to any sort of relations. Those in Florida politics generally towed the line, not wanting to deal with the ramifications of being vilified (which is what's happening to the President right now).

I don't see how President Obama gained anything politically, rather than simply doing the right thing. CNN this morning said that the Pope even got involved, trying to get the two governments to settle this. At least give the Prez his due.....although I can see how that pains you.

[Jingthing]

Bottom line -- the old policy failed. So logically was the U.S. supposed to stick with that failure for another 100 years? Get real and MOVE ON.

[chuckd]

It's the money, st....... (the words of an intelligent US Pres.).

Maybe you should read and learn a little bit more about the history of your home country (but I doubt it, because it is aching). Here are the facts, why Cuba and Castro sailed into the arms of the Soviet Union - at least to a certain part.

Actually, the phrase was..."It's the economy, stupid".

While Clinton might have parroted it, the phrase originated with James Carville, a Democrat operative.

You might want to bone up on history as well.

[thailiketoo]

Bottom line -- the old policy failed. So logically was the U.S. supposed to stick with that failure for another 100 years? Get real and MOVE ON.

If I stole money from you and you filed a lawsuit to get it back would you just want to write it off? I'd take an IOU to be paid off once the tourism kicked in again and Cuba gets rich once more. No problem. I'm flexible just admit you stole the money and give me a chance of getting some of it back. That's diplomacy.

[sanuk711]

Bottom line -- the old policy failed. So logically was the U.S. supposed to stick with that failure for another 100 years? Get real and MOVE ON.

Your right jingthing --its not Cuba that's been left behind with that policy, but America. I was talking to a group of Barclay's Bank UK people way back in the early 90s & they were having their annual staff meeting in Havana. Many people have been holidaying there, for some years---It's really quite silly to say things like, their a communist country & its illegal for your citizens , to visit there--then have one of your largest trading partners as China & not only welcome but actively seek their tourism.

Yes they had---or would have had, missiles 90 miles from the USA mainland, but at that time, the USA had missiles

just 210 "Yards", away from the soviet border --sitting in Turkey 1 they were placed there first----this, some people seem to have forgotten was what the argument was all about, the Cuba agreement was for both parties to take them away (& they both did).

If Russia or China had stationed its troops in a country like Cuba, then that government changed more then half a century ago, but they refused to leave, (let alone open a prison camp) what would the USA be saying. ? Sadly some Americans still feel its their right to be there.

If you want to judge Cuba's standard of living then do it against its nearest neighbor.--Haiti, which had the same sort of government that Cuba had pre the takeover, its an absolute basket case that America pores aid into, ranked the 15th most corrupt country in the world with levels of poverty regarded as among the most severe in the western hemisphere. 2

1- http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2010_06/Kibaroglu Turkey has hosted U.S. nuclear weapons since intermediate-range Jupiter missiles were deployed there in 1961

2-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Haiti

Edited December 18, 2014 by sanuk711

[sanuk711]

"If I stole money from you and you filed a lawsuit to get it back would you just want to write it off? --thailiketoo"

---------

.

thailiketoo, you have as much chance of getting your money back, as I have from Lehman Brothers, but I'll keep you posted on my endeavors , if you do the same..................

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[maximillian]

Bottom line -- the old policy failed. So logically was the U.S. supposed to stick with that failure for another 100 years? Get real and MOVE ON.

Your right jingthing --its not Cuba that's been left behind with that policy, but America. I was talking to a group of Barclay's Bank UK people way back in the early 90s & they were having their annual staff meeting in Havana. Many people have been holidaying there, for some years---It's really quite silly to say things like, their a communist country & its illegal for your citizens , to visit there--then have one of your largest trading partners as China & not only welcome but actively seek their tourism.

Yes they had---or would have had, missiles 90 miles from the USA mainland, but at that time, the USA had missiles

just 210 "Yards", away from the soviet border --sitting in Turkey 1 they were placed there first----this, some people seem to have forgotten was what the argument was all about, the Cuba agreement was for both parties to take them away (& they both did).

If Russia or China had stationed its troops in a country like Cuba, then that government changed more then half a century ago, but they refused to leave, (let alone open a prison camp) what would the USA be saying. ? Sadly some Americans still feel its their right to be there.

If you want to judge Cuba's standard of living then do it against its nearest neighbor.--Haiti, which had the same sort of government that Cuba had pre the takeover, its an absolute basket case that America pores aid into, ranked the 15th most corrupt country in the world with levels of poverty regarded as among the most severe in the western hemisphere. 2

1- http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2010_06/Kibaroglu Turkey has hosted U.S. nuclear weapons since intermediate-range Jupiter missiles were deployed there in 1961

2-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Haiti

Well said sanuk, thank you for the clarification.

[wilcopops]

It is a constant source of surprise to see that despite their overwhelming technology, finance and numbers US foreign policy is time and again so plainly ignorant and wide of the mark...at least here common sense is starting to prevail....after 50 YEARS!!!!

When the "Revolution" put the Communist Dictator Fidel Castro in power in Cuba, he aligned himself with the Soviet Union. This was during the Cold War.

Castro allowed Russia to put nuclear missiles just 90 miles off the shores of the US in Cuba. This is known as "The Cuban Missile Crisis." It could have started WWIII as could have other events not involving Cuba during the Cold War.

Castro was belligerent to the US from the start, flexing his muscles as he accepted a lot of cash and military support from the USSR. He continued to get cash support from the USSR until it went belly up.

The whole thing got off to a bad start and Fidel was never trusted. Additionally, the US doesn't normally do business with military dictators who hold power by force.

The "common sense is starting to prevail....after 50 YEARS!!!!" part has to do with a new leader who seems to want to mesh with the West. I have high hopes for this as it would be good for everyone.

Absolute nonsense! Your very first paragraph is tripe....he approached the US first.....my guess is you are American and have no idea about history......or communism.

[Tep]

Ah, I don't want to interject reality into this fun fantasy but In 1960, Castro nationalized all U.S.-owned businesses, including oil refineries, factories and casinos. This prompted the United States to end diplomatic relations and impose a trade embargo that still stands today.

Castro stole billions of dollars from US owned companies that were owned not by the mob but by average Americans mom and pop stockholders.

So who is going to pay back mom and pop? He stole First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston and Chase Manhattan Bank and Texaco, Esso, and Shell oil refineries. He stole property homes and small businesses from 6000 Americans.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/igraphic.html?p1=Article_Graphic

He owes us 7 billion US dollars. Who gonna pay? I don't care how you guys paint his picture . A thief is a thief. He stole money from me and I want my money back.

Having a perspective is reasonable. We all do. Presenting that perspective as reality is not. All governments reserve the righ to nationalise industries at will. The US did it with railroads early last Century. The Brits did it with Coal after WWII. Wikipedia has an entry on nationalisation. It lists dozens of countries and their nationalisations over the years. The circumstances for each case will be different and the merits, causes and consequences can and are argued but the mere act of nationalisation is not thievery. Investors, or at least successful investors, take into account things like political risk. US investors in companies doing business in Cuba before the revolution should expect the same treatment as any other investor. They make their decisions based on available information and an assessment of risk.

Who is going to give your money back? Nobody. It was the risk you took in making the investment. Some pay off, some don't.

After the 97 crisis and the fall of the SET, I remember there was a march by SET investors down Wireless Road (I think the SET was at Sirindhorn Bldg then) demanding their money back. Your plea reminds me of this. Lets unpick the entire function of capital markets just to serve an ideological lesson on Cuba. Or lets understand the risks of doing business with violent, right wing regimes as was the case with Cuba before the revolution.

https://twitter.com/billmaher "Obama just goes down the list reversing stupidities of the past" Bil Maher. Correct again.

[thailiketoo]

Ah, I don't want to interject reality into this fun fantasy but In 1960, Castro nationalized all U.S.-owned businesses, including oil refineries, factories and casinos. This prompted the United States to end diplomatic relations and impose a trade embargo that still stands today.

Castro stole billions of dollars from US owned companies that were owned not by the mob but by average Americans mom and pop stockholders.

So who is going to pay back mom and pop? He stole First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston and Chase Manhattan Bank and Texaco, Esso, and Shell oil refineries. He stole property homes and small businesses from 6000 Americans.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/igraphic.html?p1=Article_Graphic

He owes us 7 billion US dollars. Who gonna pay? I don't care how you guys paint his picture . A thief is a thief. He stole money from me and I want my money back.

Having a perspective is reasonable. We all do. Presenting that perspective as reality is not. All governments reserve the righ to nationalise industries at will. The US did it with railroads early last Century. The Brits did it with Coal after WWII. Wikipedia has an entry on nationalisation. It lists dozens of countries and their nationalisations over the years. The circumstances for each case will be different and the merits, causes and consequences can and are argued but the mere act of nationalisation is not thievery. Investors, or at least successful investors, take into account things like political risk. US investors in companies doing business in Cuba before the revolution should expect the same treatment as any other investor. They make their decisions based on available information and an assessment of risk.

Who is going to give your money back? Nobody. It was the risk you took in making the investment. Some pay off, some don't.

After the 97 crisis and the fall of the SET, I remember there was a march by SET investors down Wireless Road (I think the SET was at Sirindhorn Bldg then) demanding their money back. Your plea reminds me of this. Lets unpick the entire function of capital markets just to serve an ideological lesson on Cuba. Or lets understand the risks of doing business with violent, right wing regimes as was the case with Cuba before the revolution.

https://twitter.com/billmaher "Obama just goes down the list reversing stupidities of the past" Bil Maher. Correct again.

Cuba stole personal property. If the USA or Switzerland stole my personal property I would sue. I will eventually get my money back. Because I will never give in.

[impulse]

Ah, I don't want to interject reality into this fun fantasy but In 1960, Castro nationalized all U.S.-owned businesses, including oil refineries, factories and casinos. This prompted the United States to end diplomatic relations and impose a trade embargo that still stands today.

Castro stole billions of dollars from US owned companies that were owned not by the mob but by average Americans mom and pop stockholders.

So who is going to pay back mom and pop? He stole First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston and Chase Manhattan Bank and Texaco, Esso, and Shell oil refineries. He stole property homes and small businesses from 6000 Americans.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/igraphic.html?p1=Article_Graphic

He owes us 7 billion US dollars. Who gonna pay? I don't care how you guys paint his picture . A thief is a thief. He stole money from me and I want my money back.

You buy stuff from people who stole it? It's called receiving stolen property. That's exactly what those "foreign owned assets" were. Stolen from the Cuban people by a corrupt regime.

I'd suggest Mom and Pop go after the CEOs of the companies who willingly and knowingly bought stolen property with their investment money.

You may try to get it back from the Batista guys who stole it from the Cuban people and sold it to the corporations- making $$ billions in the process.

Probably have better luck with the CEO's though.

Edited December 18, 2014 by impulse

[thailiketoo]

Ah, I don't want to interject reality into this fun fantasy but In 1960, Castro nationalized all U.S.-owned businesses, including oil refineries, factories and casinos. This prompted the United States to end diplomatic relations and impose a trade embargo that still stands today.

Castro stole billions of dollars from US owned companies that were owned not by the mob but by average Americans mom and pop stockholders.

So who is going to pay back mom and pop? He stole First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston and Chase Manhattan Bank and Texaco, Esso, and Shell oil refineries. He stole property homes and small businesses from 6000 Americans.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/igraphic.html?p1=Article_Graphic

He owes us 7 billion US dollars. Who gonna pay? I don't care how you guys paint his picture . A thief is a thief. He stole money from me and I want my money back.

You buy stuff from people who stole it? It's called receiving stolen property. That's exactly what those "foreign owned assets" were. Stolen from the Cuban people by a corrupt regime.

I'd suggest Mom and Pop go after the CEOs of the companies who willingly and knowingly bought stolen property with their investment money.

You may try to get it back from the Batista guys who stole it from the Cuban people and sold it to the corporations- making $$ billions in the process.

Probably have better luck with the CEO's though.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about vacation homes, farms and sailboats. I didn't steal anything from any Cuban person. I built a home, farmed a farm and sailed a sailboat. I brought money from Florida and put it in a bank in Cuba and Fidel stole it just like a bank robber.

Edited December 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Exsexyman]

Qarl Only fools believe such so called "best health care system" in Cuba, the same as in North Korea, which also claims to have the best health care system and the best educational system in the World. Do you believe that? And yeas, Cubans are nice people, American people and the US government don't hate Cuba and Cubans. Don't confuse Cubans with Cuban Communist government, those are totally two different things.

I am not a fool, Cuba as nothing to do or compare to North Korea, this is pure and simple propaganda. Have you been there to make such a comparison?

Cuba as a better life expectancy than the US, lower child mortality rate and a better literacy rate than the US.

There is no doubt that, communist or not, (and most people who use the word communist, use it as a term of abuse against anyone who isn't somewhere to the right of Attilla The Hun), the Cuban health system is one of the best in the world. As is their humanity which in many cases puts the so called 'First World' to shame. Even John Kerry probably wouldn't argue with that!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/03/cuba-global-medical-record-shames-us-blockade-ebola

[thailiketoo]

Qarl Only fools believe such so called "best health care system" in Cuba, the same as in North Korea, which also claims to have the best health care system and the best educational system in the World. Do you believe that? And yeas, Cubans are nice people, American people and the US government don't hate Cuba and Cubans. Don't confuse Cubans with Cuban Communist government, those are totally two different things.

I am not a fool, Cuba as nothing to do or compare to North Korea, this is pure and simple propaganda. Have you been there to make such a comparison?

Cuba as a better life expectancy than the US, lower child mortality rate and a better literacy rate than the US.

There is no doubt that, communist or not, (and most people who use the word communist, use it as a term of abuse against anyone who isn't somewhere to the right of Attilla The Hun), the Cuban health system is one of the best in the world. As is their humanity which in many cases puts the so called 'First World' to shame. Even John Kerry probably wouldn't argue with that!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/03/cuba-global-medical-record-shames-us-blockade-ebola

Is that why so many try to escape? I think it should be pointed out that the people swim from Cuba to the USA not the reverse.

[Langsuan Man]

The "past history crap" listed here is exactly why it has taken so long to get to this point after all these years

Those individuals who lost their property because of the revolution abandoned it because the didn't want to live in communist Cuba.

Companies, especially the mob, lost their casino's, resorts and hotels because there was no longer a corrupt government to pay bribes to

The multi national companies lost their property (like the they did in many other South American countries when those government's nationalized certain industries) and they knew that was something that could always happen and was factored into their investments in the first place

Get over it , it is way past the time to move on

Edited December 18, 2014 by Langsuan Man

[thailiketoo]

The "past history crap" listed here is exactly why it has taken so long to get to this point after all these years

Those individuals who lost their property because of the revolution abandoned it because the didn't want to live in communist Cuba.

Companies, especially the mob, lost their casino's, resorts and hotels because there was no longer a corrupt government to pay bribes to

The multi national companies lost their property (like the they did in many other South American countries when those government's nationalized certain industries) and they knew that was something that could always happen and was factored into their investments in the first place

Get over it , it is way past the time to move on

You have no idea what you are writing about. You have no idea how many people Castro killed. You have no idea what happened in Cuba in 1959.

Castro vowed in a speech to, "separate Americans in Cuba from all of their possessions, “down to the nails in their shoes."

No one minds you having an opinion but at least you could get the facts straight. Americans did not leave Cuba by choice; they were forced out; the alternative was death. I should have taken a photo of the bullet holes in my boat so I could send it to you.

Human rights awards won by Fidel Castro: 1 (the Muammar Gaddafi Human Rights Prize, presented in 1998 by the Libyan leader in recognition of Castro's "resistance to imperialism and defence of democratic values"

Castro, on abolishing general elections in 1961: "The revolution has no time for elections.

Cuba has 11 million people and 500 prisons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-castropedia-fidels-cuba-in-facts-and-figures-432478.html

[wilcopops]

I have the highest hopes for the people of Cuba. They are mostly Catholic, pretty much pacifist, totally passed by with technology, poor, lacking medical facilities, but very nice to strangers.

Lacking medical facilities? Really! They have one of the best health care system in the world.

If people think that Cuba is a kind of banana republic, they are wrong, Cuban are well educated and proud of their Cuban heritage.

We Canadian, have enjoyed good relation with Cuba since the revolution, we did not apply the US isolation politic even when the US tried to pressure us to do so. Oh! And we are free to travel to Cuba whenever we want, and we have Cuban product on our shelves, just bought Cuban coffee today.

Since the end of the 80's our airlines are allowed to do business with Cuba, good change since we don't have to fly in those old Russian Ilyushin aircraft anymore.

I remember in 1980 flying on Cubana, they were not allowed to fly over USA air space so our trip from Montreal to Havana had to take a detour over the Atlantic ocean to avoid USA air space, they did not lose that occasion to make an announcement that the trip was longer because of the US embargo.

Cuban are very welcoming, resilient and resourceful. Did you know that the American people are welcome to travel to Cuba? They don't hate the American people, they hate the US government, but they make a clear distinction between the people and the government.

Only fools believe such so called "best health care system" in Cuba, the same as in North Korea, which also claims to have the best health care system and the best educational system in the World. Do you believe that? And yeas, Cubans are nice people, American people and the US government don't hate Cuba and Cubans. Don't confuse Cubans with Cuban Communist government, those are totally two different things.

"Only fools believe such so called "best health care system" in Cuba - I think you'll find the "fools" are closer to home........