Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

loonodingle · January 7, 2015

Just a note to say I spoke to Maya today at reprieve. The letter is totally genuine from MPS.

catsanddogs · January 7, 2015

What am I missing, re; the two photos? The man walking alone, with b&w t-shirt and dark shorts - has a time of before 1 am. The crime didn't take place until around 4 am (is that about right?). That's a 3 hour time span. Also, people don't change clothes when out cruising at night - or at least v. rarely. Maybe a poster can show the significance of trying to match the single guy and the 3 guys on a motorbike. Even if the man in black is Nomsod or Mon, it doesn't seem to carry much significance, with a time lag of approx. 3 hours.

On the other hand, if it's shown that anyone connected to AC bar intentionally trashed CCTV footage (on that night), can that person be slapped with charges of tampering with evidence? In the US, that would be the case. In Thailand, I don't know, as anything is allowable,(except a farang dropping a spent cig butt on a Bangkok sidewalk, then it's a Bt.2,000 fine). Harboring a fugitive and lying to police re; a crime case, is legally allowable in Thailand - depending on who's behind the deception.

There have today been other stills posted of the man with the black and white tee shirt with time stamps on them of 3.32, 3.38 and 4.47 on 15th September but they have disappeared from the thread.

greenchair · January 7, 2015

Just a note to say I spoke to Maya today at reprieve. The letter is totally genuine from MPS.

What letter?

greenchair · January 7, 2015

Must be someway to repost them.

catsanddogs · January 7, 2015

Must be someway to repost them.

Hello Moderators. Are you able to shed some light on the removal of some pictures that were posted on this thread earlier please? Were they taken down by the poster or the moderators please? Thank you. A public message will be fine thanks.

loonodingle · January 7, 2015

Just a note to say I spoke to Maya today at reprieve. The letter is totally genuine from MPS.
What letter?

Hi GC. ... The letter from the met poleee to say they don't no investigation and did not have access to a lot of evidence..... or words of that sort... did you read it before.

loonodingle · January 7, 2015

I think Chetzee picked up a ban. All his posts are gone, no?

No his posts are there, but the pictures are gone. Can't someone pm him or something? ??

last post from Chetzee is showing as yesterday

Yesterday, 13:09

If you think that pic is sean , you have a poor graps

Likewise the goaty beard u have dreamt up

'Nuf said !

evadgib · January 7, 2015

Ok..... Adjourned until 15th October. If trial not over will be adjourned again.

Defence can request copy of UK Autopsy. Up to Coroner whether she releases it.

Edited January 7, 2015 by evadgib

loonodingle · January 7, 2015

Ok..... Adjourned until 15th October. If trial not over will be adjourned again.

Defence can request copy of UK Autopsy. Up to Coroner whether she releases it.

<deleted post; Info was already online>

?

catsanddogs · January 7, 2015

Could the moderators please say if they took down the pictures posted by chetzee earlier today. Thank you.

loonodingle · January 7, 2015

Could the moderators please say if they took down the pictures posted by chetzee earlier today. Thank you.

If you click on his profile everything has gone back to yesterday go on posts

catsanddogs · January 7, 2015

Could the moderators please say if they took down the pictures posted by chetzee earlier today. Thank you.

If you click on his profile everything has gone back to yesterday go on posts

Yes I realise this loonodingle. I joined TV because I thought it was a fair and transparent way of communicating with others in regards to the evil murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, who had everything to live for. It does not appear so though. I have had no replies from the mods regarding my questions over pictures that have 'disappeared' from this thread which were posted today by Chetzee. The pictures that were time stamped 3.32am, 3.38am and 4.47am of a man in a black tee shirt - one picture of him with a missing shoe, one with a car or van driving behind him and another one which I said in another post looked like he could be carrying a hoe. So we'll see if this post gets taken down as well.

Edit - 4.57 not 4.47.

Edited January 7, 2015 by catsanddogs

Chetzee · January 7, 2015

The viechle is an early morning rubbish truvk

greenchair · January 7, 2015

The viechle is an early morning rubbish truvk

Thank you chezzy but where are the pictures. They have disappeared. Did you take them back or is it some dark force that does not want us looking into things?? could you please repost them. We were looking at them for interesting information.

loonodingle · January 8, 2015

How does the fact the case has been put back affect the British inquest or Coroners report ?

Lets not forget the inquest/report was due to be on 5th of Jan or there abouts. This was at a time when the trail was set for February.

My guess is not much. He will still want to see what transpires at the trial. Also, after the trial he will be more likely to get information from the Thai authorities. As far as I know Thailand does not hold inquests, but if it did and the positions were reversed UK would not send much info ahead of the criminal trial.

Another thought. I believe there are in fact 2 inquests. It will be interesting to see if both coroners take the same approach.

So if that's true. Where does the court and the police or even the accused get the scientific reports that they need to conduct a trial. You are telling me that. All dna evidence, all injury reports, and toxoligy reports are withheld from interested parties. So guilty men are going free because the coroner withheld evidence. Innocent men are going to prison because the coroner withheld evidence. Where pray tell me are the courts supposed to get their scientific evidence. Or are convictions only based on verbal evidence? ????

Indeed, and I cannot see there being a postponement until October this year, families need partial closure of some sort a coroners reports gives trail or no.

Where there is suspects in custody and going to trial whether in UK or Abroad the coroner said they will always wait until AFTER a trial.

If there is no suspects etc sometimes they will make a decision in order for the familys to have some closure.

The Defence has a right to apply for all Post Mortem Results inc Toxicology in All cases. Its up to the coroner if she hands them over. They also have a right to ask for a separate post-mortem at their costs. Depending on the situation with Burials etc.

This is out of the coroners mouth in Norwich yesterday. This applies to all cases and is not specific for Hannahs case.

thailandchilli · January 8, 2015

cats&dogs#624

A CCTV video of a woman running near the scene is described but not released. Police say it could be of a witness to the double murder, a suspect or of Miss Witheridge herself. (Daily Mail) Sept 20^th

Why hasn’t this video been released? Why haven’t the police said what time this woman was seen running on CCTV? It would be obvious surely to the police if it was Hannah in the video. Police have something big to hide here I think. If not, then they need to prove it.

The above is for me one of the important points in your excellent post, cctv of a woman running and also its a farrang woman! Where is this cctv?? I cannot access the Daily Mail but the whole article is copied here http://www.nigeriadailynews.com/mobile/mobile/world/102681-it-s-a-joke-thai-police-hunting-for-killer-of-two-british-tourists-are-now-measuring-people-s-feet-to-see-if-they-match-prints-made-in-the-sand-but-are-no-closer-to-finding-culprit.html

Here's what it says:

It comes as police revealed they were hunting a mystery 'foreign' woman seen running near the beach where the pair were brutally murdered last week, but have not confirmed whether the woman is a suspect, witness - or even Miss Witheridge herself.

Police refer to Westerners as ‘foreigners’ but officers would not comment whether the woman might turn out to be Hannah Witheridge herself, fleeing from the killer or killers who were to soon battered her to death on Koh Tao’s idyllic Sairee Beach. CCTV footage of the woman - who might also turn out to be a terrified witness to the double murders - has yet to be released.

It is clear that the above is not referring to the running man as that cctv was released before they even mentioned a running woman.

If there really is a cctv of a woman running a farrang woman at that then this turns the investigation on its head, if its Hannah then the whole case put forward by the RTP, crime scene and events leading up to the murder are complete rubbish.

The RTP have far more cctv then we know about and I have read a report where they said they sifted through hours of cctv. This is what makes me worry, what is being held back and why? Will we get to see this at the trial?

Could this be another part of the cover up???

Oh and before we get accused of speculating again, this is a request from the RTP: A video capture from CCTV footage released by police of a prime "person of interest" in the Koh Tao murder investigation. Authorities are hoping the public can identify him

boomerangutang · January 8, 2015

Where there is suspects in custody and going to trial whether in UK or Abroad the coroner said they will always wait until AFTER a trial.

If there is no suspects etc sometimes they will make a decision in order for the familys to have some closure.

The Defence has a right to apply for all Post Mortem Results inc Toxicology in All cases. Its up to the coroner if she hands them over. They also have a right to ask for a separate post-mortem at their costs. Depending on the situation with Burials etc.

This is out of the coroners mouth in Norwich yesterday. This applies to all cases and is not specific for Hannahs case.

Is there precedence for that scenario, outlined above, in official British dealings with overseas crimes against Brits?

Brit officials are paid by taxpayers. They're duty is to serve the general public. If the coroner withholds useful info (which could assist in nailing the real perps), then those perps are still out in the public domain, ready to strike again, any time. In other words, by withholding pertinent info, the Coroner could be said to endanger the general public. There has already been the Frenchman who was murdered a few days ago (with indications he may have been a crime witness - snuffed out), ....who will be next? Will they be innocents, like David and Hannah, or will they be people who may have useful info towards solving the crime.

We already know the RTP are not doing their jobs, but that does not excuse Brit authorities from not doing theirs also. There are strong indications that murderers and rapists are still roaming free around Ko Tao, mixing with young naive backpackers. Brit authorities should do everything they can to try to lessen the possibility of future crimes there. I acknowledge the Brits are not supposed to be crime solvers in Thailand, but at least they can try to contribute to the safety of backpackers there, some of whom are Brits, but the majority hail from 100 other countries. Brit officialdom is dropping the ball. They can try hiding behind official strictures, but it doesn't fool people like me. Additionally, it looks like Brit officials are kow-towing to Thai officialdom, because Thai officials don't want any revelations regarding who the real criminals are.

Note: the above missive was just now submitted to one of Bkk's Eng.Lang. dailies' 'letters to editor' column.

metisdead · January 8, 2015

Could the moderators please say if they took down the pictures posted by chetzee earlier today. Thank you.

During the early morning hours of yesterday morning, some inflammatory posts were removed, however some posts containing the inflammatory posts were missed, those posts containing the quotes of the inflammatory posts were later taken down. From here on out, any more posts discussing the removal of the posts will simply disappear.

boomerangutang · January 8, 2015

Regarding CCTV, missing, destroyed or otherwise, there is the couple walking fast - ahead of one of the 'person of interest' (ahead of the running man with no shirt and shorts). The man is farang and heavyset, the woman is probably Thai and she walks a couple steps behind him. If they were in close vicinity of the crime when it happened, they very likely would have heard screams and shouting. They may have also seen pertinent things. That farang man should be found and questioned, as a possible witness. As for the woman, well, if she's Thai (and particularly if she's a local gal), she knows to keep her mouth shut.

greenchair · January 8, 2015

Chetzee. We had a bit of a tiff. But since then we have been looking at photos together with a couple of other posters. Unfortunately the picture were mixed with our nasty words and removed. Could you please put the pictures that you posted back up so we look again.

Ever so grateful. And sorry to make inconvenience.

loonodingle · January 8, 2015

Where there is suspects in custody and going to trial whether in UK or Abroad the coroner said they will always wait until AFTER a trial.

If there is no suspects etc sometimes they will make a decision in order for the familys to have some closure.

The Defence has a right to apply for all Post Mortem Results inc Toxicology in All cases. Its up to the coroner if she hands them over. They also have a right to ask for a separate post-mortem at their costs. Depending on the situation with Burials etc.

This is out of the coroners mouth in Norwich yesterday. This applies to all cases and is not specific for Hannahs case.

Is there precedence for that scenario, outlined above, in official British dealings with overseas crimes against Brits?
Brit officials are paid by taxpayers. They're duty is to serve the general public. If the coroner withholds useful info (which could assist in nailing the real perps), then those perps are still out in the public domain, ready to strike again, any time. In other words, by withholding pertinent info, the Coroner could be said to endanger the general public. There has already been the Frenchman who was murdered a few days ago (with indications he may have been a crime witness - snuffed out), ....who will be next? Will they be innocents, like David and Hannah, or will they be people who may have useful info towards solving the crime.

We already know the RTP are not doing their jobs, but that does not excuse Brit authorities from not doing theirs also. There are strong indications that murderers and rapists are still roaming free around Ko Tao, mixing with young naive backpackers. Brit authorities should do everything they can to try to lessen the possibility of future crimes there. I acknowledge the Brits are not supposed to be crime solvers in Thailand, but at least they can try to contribute to the safety of backpackers there, some of whom are Brits, but the majority hail from 100 other countries. Brit officialdom is dropping the ball. They can try hiding behind official strictures, but it doesn't fool people like me. Additionally, it looks like Brit officials are kow-towing to Thai officialdom, because Thai officials don't want any revelations regarding who the real criminals are.

Note: the above missive was just now submitted to one of Bkk's Eng.Lang. dailies' 'letters to editor' column.

sorry I may not have described it properly. All parties that have an interest. So relatives etc. Inc defence. Can request the coroner then decides. So if the next door neighbour asks she will refuse. She releases it on consideration of an interested party. The guy was trying to be non specific to this case but helpful as well. Do u get where I am coming from. He cannot comment specifically.

greenchair · January 8, 2015

OK, thanks BritTim.

Hmmm... the pics just got removed it looks like, but anyway I think there maybe some misunderstanding about those times. Unless I am mistaken someone has put together a compilation video of all the CCTV footage and the length of the video compilation is 8 minutes and 21(?) seconds long, and where it says 3.38 / 8.21 it means the still was taken from 3 minutes 38 seconds into the 8 minutes and 21 seconds of the compilation video. It's not the time of day that the CCTV was recorded.

Thank you for that interesting information about time. Would you look at the photos on the previous page. The photo with the time 23:14 , 23:15

Is that a time? ??

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

catsanddogs, on 07 Jan 2015 - 09:11, said:

GC - what I see from these stills:

Timed stamped 3.38 (side view) someone sitting at side of road and someone through the glass in building behind him. What is this building? Shop/flat?

Time stamped 3.32 (side view) looks like he is carrying something behind his back which could be a hoe or similar.

Time stamped 4.57 (front view) looks like there is a picture of a man on his tee shirt.

Which one is the still which you say he has no sandal on?

Can you give a link to picture of sandal on beach (without showing the pictures of the deceased victims).

He has quite a distinct face which doesn't seem to fit anyone we have been discussing to date.

Can somebody send me these pictures which have been deleted privately by pm? BTW I'm quite good at identifying people

jimmybkk · January 8, 2015

OK, thanks BritTim.

Hmmm... the pics just got removed it looks like, but anyway I think there maybe some misunderstanding about those times. Unless I am mistaken someone has put together a compilation video of all the CCTV footage and the length of the video compilation is 8 minutes and 21(?) seconds long, and where it says 3.38 / 8.21 it means the still was taken from 3 minutes 38 seconds into the 8 minutes and 21 seconds of the compilation video. It's not the time of day that the CCTV was recorded.

Thank you for that interesting information about time. Would you look at the photos on the previous page. The photo with the time 23:14 , 23:15

Is that a time? ??

For what it's worth, I think it would be reasonable to trust the time shown on the pics where there is just one time stamp visible. For the ones where you can see a small window in the bottom right corner of the screen showing half of some guy's head, this looks like someone is chatting with that guy and one of the guys is directing his webcam at his screen to show the other guy the footage. So if that's the case you could assume that the earlier timestamp is the time the footage was recorded and the later timestamp is the time the guy's are chatting. But I'm no expert...

greenchair · January 8, 2015

My point is in the first picture that have been deleted. It says A1 with an arrow. In the pics on previous Pg of the motorbike Muang in the middle is A1.

My point is Muang cannot be the guy walking because he is on motor at 23:10 and in 7/11 at 23:12 the guy walking is at 23:14 so it cannot be Muang.

The one with the white front shirt is seen walking at 2:01. With no jandal. That jandal was on the beach at the crime scene. I am not saying who he is I am just saying it cannot be any of the boys from the bike if the time is correct

greenchair · January 8, 2015

http://3-ps.googleusercontent.com/xk/ifphwS7v-Kw9w4pBErrrmXz69m/www.thaivisa.com/static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2015/xpost-223227-0-16407600-1420517122_thumb.png.pagespeed.ic.6Hem94YNGkoVlsWMLQ1q.webp

JLCrab · January 8, 2015

From Post #648: They can try hiding behind official strictures, but it doesn't fool people like me.

Him either:

Eirene · January 8, 2015

Regarding CCTV, missing, destroyed or otherwise, there is the couple walking fast - ahead of one of the 'person of interest' (ahead of the running man with no shirt and shorts). The man is farang and heavyset, the woman is probably Thai and she walks a couple steps behind him. If they were in close vicinity of the crime when it happened, they very likely would have heard screams and shouting. They may have also seen pertinent things. That farang man should be found and questioned, as a possible witness. As for the woman, well, if she's Thai (and particularly if she's a local gal), she knows to keep her mouth shut.

I notice that a number of people are wondering about this couple. Early on when they realized the mistake on this clip there was an article that described this couple as being from China and that they were going to or coming from a beach party. I have tried to locate the article...no joy. I recall this clearly as I knew when first viewing the CCTV image it was obviously not David and Hannah. Anyone else remember this?

Jai Dee · January 8, 2015

Could the moderators please say if they took down the pictures posted by chetzee earlier today. Thank you.

If you click on his profile everything has gone back to yesterday go on posts

Yes I realise this loonodingle. I joined TV because I thought it was a fair and transparent way of communicating with others in regards to the evil murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, who had everything to live for. It does not appear so though. I have had no replies from the mods regarding my questions over pictures that have 'disappeared' from this thread which were posted today by Chetzee. The pictures that were time stamped 3.32am, 3.38am and 4.47am of a man in a black tee shirt - one picture of him with a missing shoe, one with a car or van driving behind him and another one which I said in another post looked like he could be carrying a hoe. So we'll see if this post gets taken down as well.

Edit - 4.57 not 4.47.

The photos have been reinstated.

The original post contained quotes from other members who were flaming, and this post got caught up in the general mop-up.

I have deleted the quotes and reinstated the photographs.

Chetzee · January 8, 2015

For the avoidance of doubt I dug these out to add to your time lines . No goaty beard .

Also found these images of two suspects lining up for DNA swab. I have no idea what day that was , but it's on the beach and looks pretty early on given that there are other lining up too.