Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[boomerangutang]

I haven't heard much about this story recently.

Did the two chaps actually get bail until the July hearing? The OP says the Burmese Government were prepared to pay for it.

If they did, they should be doing more to raise awareness and protest their innocence. Can't see that the army would allow bail in case that were to happen.

No bail.

The case isn't being heard in a military court.

I think when KevWaters mentioned the army ("Can't see that the army would allow bail in case that were to happen.") he may have been alluding to the military men who have taken charge of Thailand, and therefore taken charge of many prominent goings-on in Thailand, which include (at least partially) the reverberations from the crime. The military PM himself has commented several times on the case.

And, yes; no bail. Lest anyone not be apprised: bail was offered by Burmese gov't (which is, in itself, highly unusual) - and, as we know, was abruptly turned down. Burmese gov't officials were also ready to vouch for the B2, should bail be granted, and that too was squashed in a Bangkok minute. One country's leaders were diplomatically rude - you get one guess, which one.

[bannork]

Boomerangutang, do you know the Thai expression, Thai mung? It means a crowd of onlookers, it's a Thai pastime, I have no axe to grind in this case, the Burmese could well be innocent, but to assume the crowd's lack of palpable anger means no one thinks the Burmese are guilty is a jump in logic imo.

I guess your not Thai are you.

2 of my wife's friends came back from there at xmas and there thoughts are, everybody knows it was not those lads, but everyone afraid. if they speak then the can be dead. cannot stay on Koh Tao. So they keep quite.

After 20 odd years listening to the Thai's I would probably go along with them than your version. Also the re enactment was in broad daylight not 3am. Nigh on everyone on the Island is suffering from the drop in tourism and I have seen many many times when they attack the suspects. Especially if it affects them and their livelihood.

Anyway that my take on it.

Couple that with the RTP chief denying the UK MPS the right to verify and investigate the case, speaks volumes. Its the opposite of what you would expect from a country that cares about tourism and their global appearance to would be travellers. But then I guess they thought it would just get buried in the news and forgotten. Unfortunately for them it will not.

Families will be attending. Despite their initial thoughts that they have the correct people as they find the strength to examine the case through their assistant's translating they will see the same flaws that we have.

I have no version of this crime loonodingle, my reference to 3.00 am was to point out that few would have witnessed the crime,nothing to do with re-enactment time.

But hopefully there were some witnesses, and although it's an awfully long time before trial, it does give the defence team sufficient time to gather witnesses and evidence for their defence. Hopefully everything will be revealed in July.

[IslandLover]

loonodingle, on 20 Feb 2015 - 11:05, said:loonodingle, on 20 Feb 2015 - 11:05, said:

An Email I had from Andy Hall this morning,

This morning, MWRN's international affairs advisor Andy Hall, accompanied by HRDF's Mahachai project coordinator Aye Mar Cho and also Heidi Anna, visited Koh Tao case defendants Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo at Koh Samui prison.

This visit was MWRN's first since 12th January during which past time MWRN however continued to organise, supported by MWRN's Justice: Koh Tao case fundraiser, for 3 visits a week to the guys by our Koh Samui network.

Today we met Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo primarily as a humanitarian visit to check their health and welfare, so as to give them a chance to engage outsiders and provide them emotional support. But we could also update them on the ongoing and extensive work of the Koh Tao defence team lawyers in Bangkok and the situations of their families, especially Wei Phyo's father, in Myanmar. We informed Wei Phyo that his father and mother were being provided a lot of support and all operation costs for his sick father, who is now conscious, eating and speaking, were covered. We could also inform both guys of how the Rakhine migrant community in Thailand is currently supporting both of their families with money every month to make up for the temporary loss of a child breadwinner.

After the visit, MWRN was able to deposit some donated books, Facebook support messages and letters for the guys. In addition, we could show the guys all the Facebook letters and donated books during the visit. MWRN also deposited funds into the guys prison bank accounts, one of which was running quite low in cash, and we purchased for them water, mama and canned fish.

During today's visit, both guys looks visibly healthy and strong. Both smiled and laughed throughout. In contrast to the other prisoners around, both wore new matching Lanna style clean and smart looking shirts they said they purchased inside the prison recently for 120 baht each. Wei Phyo had sown on the left side of his new t-shirt a beautiful dove, and when asked about it, said it was a symbol of hope and also joked with smiles that it was too a symbol that he wanted to fly away from his existing situation. Zaw Lin had sown on the left hand side of his shirt only his name.

Today we had a good chance to chat and exchange with both of the accused on their feelings and reflections.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo have now been incarcerated for almost 150 days in Koh Samui prison and, although they said they remained strong and healthy in body and mind and they said prison is not a big deal for men like them, they both said they still find the incarceration challenging at times and they want to be out of the prison as soon as possible, particularly as both insist that even though they were not perfect sons, they were not involved in any way in the heinous Koh Tao murders. Both said being in prison was the worst experience in their lives.

However, both guys said that because of all the support and regular visits they have received since their initial incarceration from so many different people, and all the letters, drawings, pictures and Facebook print outs they received, as well as Myanmar reading books and learning English language books, stationary and note pads, they had managed to avoid too much depression or stress inside the prison and keep up hope and strength for a future with their families back in Myanmar.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said today they would never give up hope of freedom, truth and justice and would indeed fight both for the dignity especially of their parents but also their country. Both said that if not for the support they had received, they would surely have already lost hope in ever returning to see their families and country again. Both insisted they are sure they will soon be free of this existing nightmare when justice is achieved in their case.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo today talked about poor translators during their arrest and interrogation by police as well as physical abuse as being the main cause of their wrongful detention and prosecution. However, both insisted it was their karma to be in this poor position and they importantly did not want to blame any particular individual for the wrong that has already befallen them.

Both Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said they longed for the day to be able to tell the truth and speak up by themselves, as for now they have been wrongfully silenced. They said they are dedicated to find justice from this case and their recent challenging experiences.

Both guys said that whilst some people strongly believed in their innocence and some may think they were actually guilty, they were both certain that a greater being knows for certain they were not involved in the killings.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo said that in jail, they had also met and spoke to people, including many from Myanmar, who were not bad people and heard stories from prisoners who alleged it was actually bad people outside of prison that resulted in them being incarcerated and unable to speak out for truth and justice too. Both guys said they received as much important support from people inside the prison as they did from people outside.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo both stressed how grateful they both were for all the support and understanding they have in the past and still now received from others.

Thanks for the update. It's good to hear some positive news. I see that the Witheridge family has removed the word "sentencing" from their appeal for funds to attend the trial. It's particularly sad to note that the only evidence they have seen against the accused is what the RTP wants them to see. Not just my opinion but also that of Andy Hall.

I also wonder if they have decided to participate in the prosecution as they were invited to do when the B2 were charged.

Edited February 20, 2015 by IslandLover

[greenchair]

Does anybody have plans to attend the trial?

[boomerangutang]

....my reference to 3.00 am was to point out that few would have witnessed the crime...

The crime took place about 105 minutes later.

[Mooner]

Maybe the refusal to submit CCTV wasn't to shield any potential perps but to cover up some other dealings on the premises

[rockingrobin]

Some missing pieces concern the crimescene, what happened between the murders being discovered at 6:30 and the attendance of the forensics. e.g there are crime scene photos of Hannahs face covered and uncovered

[boomerangutang]

If anyone is considering visiting the Samui prison, here's a URL with some info from SamuiTimes.com

an excerpt:

"Samui Prison visiting times are on Monday, Wednesday & Friday. Morning visits are 9am-12noon, and afternoon visits from 1pm to 3pm. You will need your passport and the inmate’s name. If you have their surname and prison number, that’s great, but it is possible to visit with a first name only. You can hand in (up to) 3kgs. (care package) This includes one book and food bought from the stalls on the ring road. No fruit allowed here (buy at the outer prison counter) but rice, thai food, bread rolls, cheese and ham are all ok."

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:

Some missing pieces concern the crimescene, what happened between the murders being discovered at 6:30 and the attendance of the forensics. e.g there are crime scene photos of Hannahs face covered and uncovered

As far as we know, the first people on the scene after the bodies were discovered were the island "rescue team" and the local plod, all overseen by Mon. He is pictured at the scene when the bodies are still in situ. According to Sean McAnna, the forensics people didn't arrive for 20 hours. The bodies must have been removed well before then, surely? The crime scene photos could only have been taken by the locals, well before forensics got there.

Edited February 21, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

boomerangutang, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:55, said:

If anyone is considering visiting the Samui prison, here's a URL with some info from SamuiTimes.com

an excerpt:

"Samui Prison visiting times are on Monday, Wednesday & Friday. Morning visits are 9am-12noon, and afternoon visits from 1pm to 3pm. You will need your passport and the inmate’s name. If you have their surname and prison number, that’s great, but it is possible to visit with a first name only. You can hand in (up to) 3kgs. (care package) This includes one book and food bought from the stalls on the ring road. No fruit allowed here (buy at the outer prison counter) but rice, thai food, bread rolls, cheese and ham are all ok."

If anyone does intend to visit Win and Zaw perhaps they should ask the advice of Andy Hall on what to take beforehand. He can be contacted here:

https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:

Some missing pieces concern the crimescene, what happened between the murders being discovered at 6:30 and the attendance of the forensics. e.g there are crime scene photos of Hannahs face covered and uncovered

Going back to the infamous superimposed CCTV still, is this person carrying the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face? Unfortunately the original CCTV still has never been released and there is no timestamp so it's impossible to know the context of this photo.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-used-to-ident-30243922.html

[berybert]

rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:

Some missing pieces concern the crimescene, what happened between the murders being discovered at 6:30 and the attendance of the forensics. e.g there are crime scene photos of Hannahs face covered and uncovered

Going back to the infamous superimposed CCTV still, is this person carrying the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face? Unfortunately the original CCTV still has never been released and there is no timestamp so it's impossible to know the context of this photo.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-used-to-ident-30243922.html

30243922-01_big.jpg

My answer would be, if someone was in such a hurry he couldn't take a second to put a t-shirt on why would he bother to pick up a towel ?

[IslandLover]

berybert, on 21 Feb 2015 - 18:51, said:

IslandLover, on 21 Feb 2015 - 18:28, said:

rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:rockingrobin, on 21 Feb 2015 - 14:15, said:

Some missing pieces concern the crimescene, what happened between the murders being discovered at 6:30 and the attendance of the forensics. e.g there are crime scene photos of Hannahs face covered and uncovered

Going back to the infamous superimposed CCTV still, is this person carrying the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face? Unfortunately the original CCTV still has never been released and there is no timestamp so it's impossible to know the context of this photo.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-used-to-ident-30243922.html

30243922-01_big.jpg

My answer would be, if someone was in such a hurry he couldn't take a second to put a t-shirt on why would he bother to pick up a towel ?

Maybe because he knew that when he got to where he was going, he would need it (the towel). He doesn't look like he is hurrying in this image either.

[PaPiPuPePo]

The towel seems like a dead end, but the comment below from the linked article once again shows that the police suddenly backed off from their certainty and changed course in their investigation around Sept. 23.

"Police would also summon others who had left Ko Tao for additional questioning. The case should be closed in a few days because police have enough witnesses and evidence, Gen Panya said."

Edited February 22, 2015 by PaPiPuPePo

[stephen terry]

Maybe the refusal to submit CCTV wasn't to shield any potential perps but to cover up some other dealings on the premises

While a possibility, it is less likely that e.g. drug traffic is unknown or unwelcome by RTP being paid to ignore. And it would be pretty daft to carry out deals in full view of CCTV.

Whatever, if the B2 weren't captured on camera at the crime scene, there's no filmed evidence of their presence.

[greenchair]

I find it interesting that foreigner and run man seem to be leaving the crime at the same time in at 4.51.

Then they are both out and about at the same time an hour later at 5.41 and 5.46.

[siampolee]

Why is it that this man has to date as far as I am aware never been identified?

Or perhaps he has been identified.

Possibly though certain parties with a vested interest may have suppressed the evidence and the person concerned is either unaware of being identified or has been ''politely instructed'' to keep a low profile.

One is led to wonder whether the lass who seems to with him is a local girl or working girl who has been shipped off of the island or may have been paid off or simply'' vanished ?''

[boomerangutang]

I find it interesting that foreigner and run man seem to be leaving the crime at the same time in at 4.51.

Then they are both out and about at the same time an hour later at 5.41 and 5.46.

FB_IMG_1424406267747.jpg

post-223227-0-47481400-1419906699.jpg

post-223227-0-88894700-1419906585.jpgpost-155768-0-37866300-1418771831.jpg

good observation! GC, you're the go-to person for photos and timeline. I hope the defense is looking at such things half as closely as you are. Months ago, I would have hoped investigators were also looking at such items closely, but have long since given up on them (both Thai and Brit experts) as willing (or able) to lift a finger toward finding clues leading to the actual murderers and rapists - who, by all reasonable assessments, still roam free.

To address your Q: it is interesting why the heavy-set bearded guy is considered a non-factor by investigators. Similar to how Sean is discounted in a similar way. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is the investigators' mantra.

[loonodingle]

With Regards to Sean in comment above. I would put my house up in a bet he knows something. To vague in his answer. An identical injury to David. He has been hanging around the forums. Whisked of the island as soon as he mentioned who done it. The whole thing stinks like my wife's B.. lah. . Fishy stuff.

[greenchair]

Everyone seems to be in the video. Except b2

[jimmybkk]

If you look closely at the video of the running man when he is seen walking across the screen from right to left, watch the left of the screen as the running man enters from the right you can just make out the the big foreigner and his girl just exiting the frame. All that I have seen of this guy and girl are a couple of stills. The video has been edited and someone has decided not to release video footage of this couple walking a few metres ahead of the running man. In fact, it looks like they may have been trying to deliberately cut the couple out of the video altogether and perhaps miss-timed it slightly. I wonder why...

All of the video footage will be on a computer somewhere. What is needed is a crime-fighting-superhero-seeker-of-the-truth computer hacker to get involved and all may be revealed...

[minikev]

Did anyone else see someone curled up in front of the shop for the night? There is someone there that turns their head as the running man goes by.

[greenchair]

Did anyone else see someone curled up in front of the shop for the night? There is someone there that turns their head as the running man goes by.

Running man

Walking man

[greenchair]

Running man and walking man are not the same people.

[rockingrobin]

The walking man at 04:49;02 is also not the running man

[minikev]

Walking man looks like the 3rd Burmese. I think this is from the evidence that they went to but LM cigarettes

[greenchair]

I don't know rockin ?

I thought these 3 were all running man

[minikev]

I agree greenchair they all look like the same person. The image you posted labelled the walking man is obviously another person.

What time did the third Burmese say he went home?

[rockingrobin]

The walking man at 04:49;02 is also not the running man

Ignore

Correction , on seeing a clearer video (not much) I am mistaken

With regards to the foreigner and asian woman, does anybody recognise the t-shirt logo

[greenchair]

This was thought by some to be Maung Maung. But it can't be because Maung Maung was on the motorbike with a different shirt at the time this guy is walking.