So about that E20

[shiroboi]

Hey all, hope you're having a great day in the LOS. Forgive me for the terrible science but I'll share the figures as best as I can based on my recent experiences with E20.

I've done some experiments lately with E20 vs Benzine 91. I was curious to see if it was going to save me money.

Typically a full tank of 91 costs me 1,100 Baht at the current fuel prices. I switched over to E20 and that dropped to 1,000 Baht for a fill up. So yeah, definitely saves some money. I did the calculations at the pump, roughly 8+% cheaper.

E20, if you didn't know, is 80% Benzine and 20% Ethanol. Ethanol has roughly half of the explosive power of gasoline. So 10% less Benzine equates to 5% less efficiency. Less explodey go-go power.

My fuel economy is typically 11-12 Kilometers per Litre in the Honda Freed I drive with mixed driving.

Two fill ups with the E20 were both about 10.3 Kilometers per Litre on average, seemingly losing about 5% or more in fuel efficiency. The performance was less too. 5% performance loss may not be a big deal but in an underpowered car like the Freed, it's a precious sacrifice. With less fuel efficiency range suffered too.

My verdict: E20 makes you feel fantastic at the pump but the loss in fuel economy, power and range are a definite setback to save so little cash. If you're being environmental and into supporting local farmers and being cheap is what drives you, maybe it makes sense. For me, it doesn't.

[Noi657]

Cheers Shiroboi, great review!

[cooked]

My car accelerates at low revs much more smoothly using E20. I don't really care about power, but can't say that I've noticed much difference.

[Bung]

I gave up on it for performance and economy loss. Two cars 1.6 and 2.0 litre

[AaronLV]

As someone suggested in another thread that when doing mainly highway driving E20 does well. I filled up on my last trip that was all highway and according to the trip computer on the tank I was getting about 13.5 km/l where as with 91 I got around 12.9, this was with a 1.8 liter Honda on the way back I was a bit lighter than the trip going (1 less person, and a little less luggage). I filled up with E20 when I got back to see how it was in the city which is primarily all I do and so far 100 km in and I am running about 9.5 km/l where as with 91 I was running about 10.5 in the city. I didn't notice any performance difference on either tank, downshifted to pass was the same. In town power is useless so that is not really a concern of mine.

I will probably use E20 on trips, and 91 in town if the current tank works out how I think it will. I still want to try E85 but every time I wanted to fill up the station we stopped at didn't have it.

[KhunBENQ]

Using E20 on my Mazda of 2011.

No prob, but I must admit that I have never tried benzene with this car, just Gasohol 91.

I've done some experiments lately with E20 vs Benzine 91.

"Benzene 91": long gone, not available since years.

"91" is Gasohol 91 (10% ethanol).

What you get today is Gasoline 95 for 36.56 Baht today.

http://www.pttplc.com/en/GetOilPrice.aspx

Benzene: PTT calls it "Gasoline 95", same same but not different , simply no ethanol contained.

E20 is 26.18 today.

36.56 vs. 26.18: don't tell me its worth changing (economically).

Edited January 7, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[steve187]

As someone suggested in another thread that when doing mainly highway driving E20 does well. I filled up on my last trip that was all highway and according to the trip computer on the tank I was getting about 13.5 km/l where as with 91 I got around 12.9, this was with a 1.8 liter Honda on the way back I was a bit lighter than the trip going (1 less person, and a little less luggage). I filled up with E20 when I got back to see how it was in the city which is primarily all I do and so far 100 km in and I am running about 9.5 km/l where as with 91 I was running about 10.5 in the city. I didn't notice any performance difference on either tank, downshifted to pass was the same. In town power is useless so that is not really a concern of mine.

I will probably use E20 on trips, and 91 in town if the current tank works out how I think it will. I still want to try E85 but every time I wanted to fill up the station we stopped at didn't have it.

Do you have a civic that runs on E85, my son does and gets it as often as he can, he hasn't commented on performance, but I will ask next time i see him.

[Don Mega]

OP, Where are you buying benzine 91 from ?

[steve187]

Using E20 on my Mazda of 2011.

No prob, but I must admit that I have never tried benzene with this car, just Gasohol 91.

I've done some experiments lately with E20 vs Benzine 91.

"Benzene 91": long gone, not available since years.

"91" is Gasohol 91 (10% ethanol).

What you get today is Gasoline 95 for 36.56 Baht today.

http://www.pttplc.com/en/GetOilPrice.aspx

Benzene: PTT calls it "Gasoline 95", same same but not different , simply no ethanol contained.

E20 is 26.18 today.

36.56 vs. 26.18: don't tell me its worth changing (economically).

There is 91 green 10% ethonol = E10 - middle priced

95 red - highest price is ther ay ethonol i don't know

E20 20% ethonol - lowest price ( forgetting diesel and E85 85% ethonol for a few cars only and the cheapest of the cheap)

[KhunBENQ]

OP, Where are you buying benzine 91 from ?

Definitely a mix-up. Either its Gasohol 91 or Benzene 95.

For comparision of Gasohol 91 and E20 I have my own experience.

No wondrous difference, About 0.2 l/100 km higher consumption with E20 (7.5 vs. 7.3 or so).

Little saving money with E20 if at all.

Using E20: psychology

Edited January 7, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[AaronLV]

As someone suggested in another thread that when doing mainly highway driving E20 does well. I filled up on my last trip that was all highway and according to the trip computer on the tank I was getting about 13.5 km/l where as with 91 I got around 12.9, this was with a 1.8 liter Honda on the way back I was a bit lighter than the trip going (1 less person, and a little less luggage). I filled up with E20 when I got back to see how it was in the city which is primarily all I do and so far 100 km in and I am running about 9.5 km/l where as with 91 I was running about 10.5 in the city. I didn't notice any performance difference on either tank, downshifted to pass was the same. In town power is useless so that is not really a concern of mine.

I will probably use E20 on trips, and 91 in town if the current tank works out how I think it will. I still want to try E85 but every time I wanted to fill up the station we stopped at didn't have it.

Do you have a civic that runs on E85, my son does and gets it as often as he can, he hasn't commented on performance, but I will ask next time i see him.

I have a new HRV.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Depends on engine design and fuel injection.

Energy value is the same.

[culicine]

I used E10 in my swift a few times but found practically no difference in FE, so just stick with E20. There is so much variation from week to week in traffic conditions that any small real difference is not able to be detected. I always get 500-600 km on a tank, depending on traffic, on E20. That's good enough for me, for where I live. Taking it a bit easier on the throttle also helps a lot. My wife always get better economy than me in both our our cars.

[Ace of Pop]

Without Hair-splitting re a Civic , the only difference E85 seems to be best over E20 performance wise, but uses more than E20 in town.Cruising mid revs ,no difference worth a mention.The best expensive "STUFF" seems to be useless to me,waste of money.Thats what ive found over last 2 Years and 72 K Kms. Certainly better value than Diesel ,but im not a Clonker fan apart for Haulage Businesses use .

[shiroboi]

I may have misspoke about the fuel name. Gasohol 91 is probably the appropriate term. It's always Gau-neung at the pump. Performance wise, you're probably not going to notice a 5% drop much. However the fuel economy drop was definitely noticable for me. I just checked yesterday and on my last fill up I'm running 12+ Kilometers per litre without trying. When i was Running E 20, it was an effort to keep it in the low 10s. I did notice a big drop getting stuck in bangkok traffic. Highway wasn't too bad though. Still for my last trip to Kanchanaburi I switched back to 91 to deal with the hills. With 7 people in the car, I need the extra range and power on a long trip.

[shiroboi]

An thanks for the replies. Like I said, I don't really have enough data and this wasn't a controlled science experiment so it's good to hear from other people on the subject.

Edited January 8, 2015 by shiroboi

[stevenl]

OP, Where are you buying benzine 91 from ?

Definitely a mix-up. Either its Gasohol 91 or Benzene 95.

<snip>

Or Gasohol 95, much more common than benzeen.

[Ace of Pop]

I may have misspoke about the fuel name. Gasohol 91 is probably the appropriate term. It's always Gau-neung at the pump. Performance wise, you're probably not going to notice a 5% drop much. However the fuel economy drop was definitely noticable for me. I just checked yesterday and on my last fill up I'm running 12+ Kilometers per litre without trying. When i was Running E 20, it was an effort to keep it in the low 10s. I did notice a big drop getting stuck in bangkok traffic. Highway wasn't too bad though. Still for my last trip to Kanchanaburi I switched back to 91 to deal with the hills. With 7 people in the car, I need the extra range and power on a long trip.

What Car carries 7 People.?.

[Pomthai]

Bit off topic, but we find similar between shell v-power and the standard diesel. Better economy and performance with the v-power which evens out the cost saving of regular. You might save at the pump with regular but will be going to the pump more often. As they say here, same same.

Plus its cleaner burning and better for the engine as well.... allegedly.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Pomthai

[Bakeman]

Dealership and mechanics say I have to use 95 for the Benz. Is this true? Before the price dropped I was spending 3000 baht per fill up.

[robblok]

E20, if you didn't know, is 80% Benzine and 20% Ethanol. Ethanol has roughly half of the explosive power of gasoline. So 10% less Benzine equates to 5% less efficiency. Less explodey go-go power.

I think you got things mixed up there. 10% less benzine replaced by something that has 50% less explosive power would make the difference in power 20%

If it had the same explosive power it would be 1 to 1 and when something powerful is replaced by something less powerful those ratios change.

LOGIC

[bazmlb]

Used gasahol 95, gasahol 91 and E20 in the car (2.0L 4A Toyota and Nissan SR20DE) and it runs smoother on the E20, has better pickup as well as going further, in the Click 125i it is also noticably smoother and has a higher top end by 10%, 95 and 91 it runs like a chafcutter.

[Johnnie99]

Where did 5-Star go?

[Johnnie99]

Bit off topic, but we find similar between shell v-power and the standard diesel. Better economy and performance with the v-power which evens out the cost saving of regular. You might save at the pump with regular but will be going to the pump more often. As they say here, same same.

Plus its cleaner burning and better for the engine as well.... allegedly.

That seems correct. I get 50 mpg from Shell v-power in one of my cars - a BT-50 Pro 3.2l 6-speed auto. Standard diesel, all other things remaining equal, appears to give about 43-45.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Johnnie99

[Dannyboy666]

As someone suggested in another thread that when doing mainly highway driving E20 does well. I filled up on my last trip that was all highway and according to the trip computer on the tank I was getting about 13.5 km/l where as with 91 I got around 12.9, this was with a 1.8 liter Honda on the way back I was a bit lighter than the trip going (1 less person, and a little less luggage). I filled up with E20 when I got back to see how it was in the city which is primarily all I do and so far 100 km in and I am running about 9.5 km/l where as with 91 I was running about 10.5 in the city. I didn't notice any performance difference on either tank, downshifted to pass was the same. In town power is useless so that is not really a concern of mine.

I will probably use E20 on trips, and 91 in town if the current tank works out how I think it will. I still want to try E85 but every time I wanted to fill up the station we stopped at didn't have it.

. If you see E85 at any station, you have to stop, not many around, how much does E85 make your engine suffer down the line.

[Dannyboy666]

Dealership and mechanics say I have to use 95 for the Benz. Is this true? Before the price dropped I was spending 3000 baht per fill up.

. If your driving a Benz, the last thing you should be complaining about is price of Gas...

[ToddinChonburi]

This is funny reading back in America I would only put non oxygenated fuel in the Harley these new fuels are junk. If you only had real gas to compare it to then you would see the real difference. A news station back home used 2 of there news car and traveled for 500 mile test . No cost savings at all because of loss of power and mileage from the ethanol . I have friends that tried it also and switched back. The motors here in Thailand are weak and pathetic to begin with. 1.5 liter can't get out of its own way.

[AsiaCheese]

E20, if you didn't know, is 80% Benzine and 20% Ethanol. Ethanol has roughly half of the explosive power of gasoline. So 10% less Benzine equates to 5% less efficiency. Less explodey go-go power.

I think you got things mixed up there. 10% less benzine replaced by something that has 50% less explosive power would make the difference in power 20%

If it had the same explosive power it would be 1 to 1 and when something powerful is replaced by something less powerful those ratios change.

LOGIC

Logic? Try math. The 90% of benzine in E10 are always there, so there's your 90% power starting point. If the remaining 10% is ethanol and only delivers half of what benzine does, it still adds 5% - the result being 95%.

You weren't a taxman in a former life, by any chance?

[bazmlb]

The motors here in Thailand are weak and pathetic to begin with. 1.5 liter can't get out of its own way.

Formula One currently uses 1.6 litre...

[ChongBoy]

I used E85, E20 for about 6 months testing them. The difference in price for the cheaper E85 didn't justify the pain in the arse with the low milage and lack of stations. For me it's E20 all the way. 91 if I'm stuck in the jungle and I don't really sees any difference between them in power. CRV2014