In remote Thai villages, legacy of China's lost army endures

[webfact]

In Remote Thai Villages, Legacy of China’s Lost Army Endures
By AMY QIN

BAN RAK THAI, Thailand — At night, traditional Chinese red lanterns illuminate the hotels, shop fronts and Yunnanese-style restaurants lining the main road in this highland village of just over 1,000 people. On one recent evening, as the mist rose off a nearby reservoir, the mellifluous voice of the popular Taiwanese singer Teresa Teng could be heard wafting out from one of the village’s several tea shops.

But this sleepy Chinese village is nestled in the lush backcountry of northwestern Thailand, one of several dozen such outposts, a quirk of the region’s tumultuous human and political history.

“I may have a Thai ID, but I’m Chinese,” said Liang Zhengde, 47, a manager for his family’s fruit farms. “My family is Chinese, and no matter where we go, we’re still Chinese.”

The Liangs, like some 200 other families here, are the veterans or descendants of what is known as China’s Lost Army, a unit of the Kuomintang’s Nationalist Army, which lost to the Red Army of Mao Zedong in 1949. As most Nationalist soldiers fled east to Taiwan in the face of Communist advances, the Kuomintang’s 93rd Division retreated west from the southwestern Chinese province of Yunnan into Myanmar, then known as Burma.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/world/asia/in-remote-thailand-the-lost-soldiers-of-the-kuomintang.html

-- The New York Times 2015-01-15

[car720]

“I may have a Thai ID, but I’m Chinese,” said Liang Zhengde, 47, a manager for his family’s fruit farms. “My family is Chinese, and no matter where we go, we’re still Chinese.”

This is why the Chinese do not need to make war.

They can breed us out at any time........

[lemonjelly]

“I may have a Thai ID, but I’m Chinese,” said Liang Zhengde, 47, a manager for his family’s fruit farms. “My family is Chinese, and no matter where we go, we’re still Chinese.”

This is why the Chinese do not need to make war.

They can breed us out at any time........

hilarious.......

[samjaidee]

When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)

[Thai at Heart]

Anyone ever watched American Gangster?

We wont ask what this guomintang army was growing up in them there hills, since of course, they were the good guys right?

[squarethecircle]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

[Time Traveller]

Anyone ever watched American Gangster?

We wont ask what this guomintang army was growing up in them there hills, since of course, they were the good guys right?

Not good guys, just people looking for a society free from regulation and authoritarian laws. And good for them

Edited January 15, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Seastallion]

“I may have a Thai ID, but I’m Chinese,” said Liang Zhengde, 47, a manager for his family’s fruit farms. “My family is Chinese, and no matter where we go, we’re still Chinese.”

So why are these illegal immigrants given Thai ID cards? I would like to advise my nice Burmese neighbour.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Seastallion

[h90]

“I may have a Thai ID, but I’m Chinese,” said Liang Zhengde, 47, a manager for his family’s fruit farms. “My family is Chinese, and no matter where we go, we’re still Chinese.”

This is why the Chinese do not need to make war.

They can breed us out at any time........

But they don't do.....And usually they like to study and work hard. There are others......

[casualbiker]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

They have they are called Thailand and Taiwan!

[anon467367354]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

[h90]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Chinese is not one race. Usually Chinese immediately start to speak about which kind of Chinese.

It is more like saying you are European.

[Briggsy]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

It depends on the context of the conversation. If, in that particular conversation, they wish to distinguish themselves from ethnic Thais (read: lazy, dark, poor, manual workers) they will stress they are Chinese.

If, in that particular conversation, they wish to distinguish themselves from mainland Chinese and ally themselves with Thai citizens (read: fearful of ostracism, fearful of violence, fearful of loss of reputation or income, fearful of accusations of disloyalty to Thailand or the monarchy), they will stress they are Thai.

It is not a difficult concept to grasp. It is just pragmatism.

[ultimate weapon]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Again we need to explain the ethnicity and the nationality thing.

It's very simple and straight forward but many people don't get it.

Someone defined as a chinese can either be chinese by ethnicity or by nationality and they don't don't mean the same thing.

A minority in china say a mongolian would be ethnically mongolian but if he holds chinese citizenship would be a chinese citizen or a citizen of china but not a chinese person.

A chinese person that is not a citizen of china but has chinese blood or rather has han blood can be a citizen of another country but still be a chinese person. Hence chinese american, chinese indonesian etc.

Apparently this is still too difficult for some farangs to comprehend so we can do this.

A person can be of english ancestry or be a citizen of england but they don't mean the same thing.

A person with typical english ancestry or ethnicity would be someone of anglo saxon origins and not everyone with such ethnic grouping lives in england. A lot of them are found in australia and the US. You can ask them and they'll go yeah i'm english, parents were english etc and everyone understands what they mean.

A person of english nationality however doesn't need to be a farang/white. Many asians/indians with english nationality and black people. Dwight york is an englishman for example but he is mostly african and has dark skin but he's an englishman by nationality just not an anglo saxon. Same with the mongolian in china who is chinese by nationality just not by ethnicity aka a han.

[BritTim]

Many years ago, just after the road reached there, I visited Mae Aw. It was an interesting trip. I do not remember any hotels, but it had a very different feel from most of Northern Thailand. They had some of the best mushrooms I have bought anywhere.

These people are refugees. Some will assimilate. Others will sadly remain separated from home. I cannot see them ever being able to go back.

[willyumiii]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Again we need to explain the ethnicity and the nationality thing.

It's very simple and straight forward but many people don't get it.

Someone defined as a chinese can either be chinese by ethnicity or by nationality and they don't don't mean the same thing.

A minority in china say a mongolian would be ethnically mongolian but if he holds chinese citizenship would be a chinese citizen or a citizen of china but not a chinese person.

A chinese person that is not a citizen of china but has chinese blood or rather has han blood can be a citizen of another country but still be a chinese person. Hence chinese american, chinese indonesian etc.

Apparently this is still too difficult for some farangs to comprehend so we can do this.

A person can be of english ancestry or be a citizen of england but they don't mean the same thing.

A person with typical english ancestry or ethnicity would be someone of anglo saxon origins and not everyone with such ethnic grouping lives in england. A lot of them are found in australia and the US. You can ask them and they'll go yeah i'm english, parents were english etc and everyone understands what they mean.

A person of english nationality however doesn't need to be a farang/white. Many asians/indians with english nationality and black people. Dwight york is an englishman for example but he is mostly african and has dark skin but he's an englishman by nationality just not an anglo saxon. Same with the mongolian in china who is chinese by nationality just not by ethnicity aka a han.

[/quote

Thanks!

Now it as clear as mud!

[ResandePohm]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Again we need to explain the ethnicity and the nationality thing.

It's very simple and straight forward but many people don't get it.

Someone defined as a chinese can either be chinese by ethnicity or by nationality and they don't don't mean the same thing.

A minority in china say a mongolian would be ethnically mongolian but if he holds chinese citizenship would be a chinese citizen or a citizen of china but not a chinese person.

A chinese person that is not a citizen of china but has chinese blood or rather has han blood can be a citizen of another country but still be a chinese person. Hence chinese american, chinese indonesian etc.

Apparently this is still too difficult for some farangs to comprehend so we can do this.

A person can be of english ancestry or be a citizen of england but they don't mean the same thing.

A person with typical english ancestry or ethnicity would be someone of anglo saxon origins and not everyone with such ethnic grouping lives in england. A lot of them are found in australia and the US. You can ask them and they'll go yeah i'm english, parents were english etc and everyone understands what they mean.

A person of english nationality however doesn't need to be a farang/white. Many asians/indians with english nationality and black people. Dwight york is an englishman for example but he is mostly african and has dark skin but he's an englishman by nationality just not an anglo saxon. Same with the mongolian in china who is chinese by nationality just not by ethnicity aka a han.

Oh my!

This is far to complicated for me to understand

[IAMHERE]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

It would seem they never find a country they don't want to stay in.

[trainman34014]

The majority of Thai's i have met believe their family originally came from China.

In my opinion the Chinese sent all the lazy bastards here to get rid of them !

[bangon04]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.[/size]

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

"The Jews of the East"? oops...

[TooPoopedToPop]

The majority of Thai's i have met believe their family originally came from China.

In my opinion the Chinese sent all the lazy bastards here to get rid of them !

On the contrary... the Chinese who came here came to work.

[empireboy]

So piss off back to China then, numbskulls.

I truly wish I could understand what appears here to be an offensive comment in what is now a multicultural world... really I do.

Care to elaborate with some rational intelligent, non-threatening comment?

[thai3]

The only interesting mention in the post is Terea Teng, Asia's greatest and most successful singer. She was from Taiwan but sang in Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and English, she was very popular in Japan. Sadly died in Thailand from an asthma attack in 1995. Still often heard in Thailand. Disappointing to see several racist remarks directed towards the Chinese, one of the most cultured races in history who were so when westerners were living in the dark ages.

Edited January 15, 2015 by thai3

[elgordo38]

The majority of Thai's i have met believe their family originally came from China.

In my opinion the Chinese sent all the lazy bastards here to get rid of them !

My g/f's family came to Thailand via Laos and to Laos from China. It took them a long time to get I>D> cards and the birth date on her mother and fathers card is a guesstemation.

[The Deerhunter]

Anyone ever watched American Gangster?

We wont ask what this guomintang army was growing up in them there hills, since of course, they were the good guys right?

Not good guys, just people looking for a society free from regulation and authoritarian laws. And good for them

History lesson: They were widely known to be in the pay of, and under the control of the CIA who were using them to try & overthrow Mao. There were 10s of thousands of them from Lao to Burma, and many were killed in skirmishes with the Chinese. Although some (few) were repatriated to Taiwan most were eventually abandoned by the CIA after Nixon got pally with the Chinese and the political wind direction changed. Read Air America or Ravens. You will love them. Learn things you never knew. I am on my third read in the last 15 years.

[BirdsandBooze]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Well, in the UK people of Pakistani origin are known as British Pakistanis. Go to an England vs Pakistan cricket test match and there will be third generation Pakistanis draped in the flag of their ancestral homeland. Other south Asians are described as British Asian. The UK media refers to all citizens as Britons although most of the true Britons, not the Anglo Saxon incomers or the Scots who arrived from Ireland, are the Welsh. So, Thai citizens of Chinese ancestry are referred to as Chinese Thai. Ethnicity and religion, two of the main causes of conflict for centuries.

[Bluespunk]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.[/size]

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

"The Jews of the East"? oops...

Do us all a favour and leave out the bigotry.

[bangon04]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.[/size]

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

"The Jews of the East"? oops...

Do us all a favour and leave out the bigotry.

Not my words, and relevant to the discussion. "The Jews of the East" written 1914 by King Rama VI, who was also a driving force in forcing Chinese to adopt Thai names to prove they were ready to be fully integrated. Despite many Thai nationality laws, it seems to have failed.....

[ultimate weapon]

"When I lived in Thailand I worked for a Thai Chinese man. He was married to a Malaysian Chinese woman. Our biggest client was a Singaporean Chinese man who was married to an Indonesian Chinese woman. Their daughter lived in the States and was married to an American Chinese man and their son lived in Canada and was married to a Canadian Hong Kong Chinese woman.[/size]

The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

"The Jews of the East"? oops...

farang come from england but found all over canada, usa, australia?

[The Deerhunter]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Different cultures & religions behave in their own way when they make a home in a new country. Many races & cultures just adapt & "fit in" to their new home but certain groups remain totally immersed in their own culture for generations, regardless of where they are. A catholic in Mexico would think of himself as a Mexican first and a catholic second. A Mexican citizen with Chinese, Jew or Muslim connections would usually have a self image where being Mexican came second. A Dutch 3rd generation migrant to Australia or New Zealand would be "of Dutch extraction" as a secondary self view after being Kiwi or Aussie. Italians are a bit more clanny than most Europeans, as are migrated Yugoslavians & Greeks. There are 4 groups that come easily to mind that take it to extremes with language, religion, even living in the sale suburbs: Jews, Muslims, Chinese & the Zoroastrians who fled Iran after the Muslim take-over & settled in India & Zanzibar. Freddy Mercury's family were typical examples of the latter group. These 4 groups of people, more than many other cultures are "good" examples of those who only superficially mix.

Walk into any big shop in Thailand, particularly general hardware stores in rural Thailand and notice the Buddha figures & images on the wall & wall shrine. The number of Chinese Thai here who obviously are very involved in their own culture is staggering. These people very rarely marry outside their own subgroup (as reported by an earlier poster) and the obvious fact with all these Thai citizens is that they are Chinese first and Thai second. They would probably all "think of themselves" as such and many would not think twice before replying as they think.

I hope this is not seen as racist but merely as a way to identify how people see themselves in their chosen country of residence ( or that their great great grandparents chose.)

Edited January 15, 2015 by The Deerhunter