17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[Serendipity24]

They should focus more on foreign teachers who are hiding here because of committing a crime or being pedo back home.

[ev1lchris]

They should focus more on foreign teachers who are hiding here because of committing a crime or being pedo back home.

Totally.

[djlest]

Well considering the company has to have 2million baht in registered capital per every work permit, oh and 4 Thais working for every Foreigner. Then just maybe thats why companies just cant manage to afford work permits for its foreign staff. Not to mention the ludicrous costs.

[jspill]

Those dämned foreigners again.

They worked without a work permit. Is that ok in the country you come from?

We'd give them asylum, a house, car, welfare benefits, voting rights, free healthcare, citizenship...

And thats OK with you?

Yes, absolutely. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

[thaibeachlovers]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

If all the laws that protect people from themselves, like wearing seat belts, taking illegal drugs etc ( ie things people do that hurt nobody else ) were removed from the books, there would be a lot less laws. Not saying that would be a bad thing though.

[thaibeachlovers]

They worked without a work permit. Is that ok in the country you come from?

We'd give them asylum, a house, car, welfare benefits, voting rights, free healthcare, citizenship...

And thats OK with you?

Yes, absolutely. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us

That overlooks the fact that western governments have made it far too easy for the "natives" to be idle sponging nohopers that need to get off their fat backsides and go do a job. Just because it's not a great job is no excuse to be importing someone to do it while the "native" youth watch tv and cause trouble.

[thaibeachlovers]

Well considering the company has to have 2million baht in registered capital per every work permit, oh and 4 Thais working for every Foreigner. Then just maybe thats why companies just cant manage to afford work permits for its foreign staff. Not to mention the ludicrous costs.

That doesn't excuse letting the foreigner take the risks while they make the profits.

[alex8912]

All languages evolve. Year after year there are new Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, etc. "New words". As for English. almost all new world wide accepted words come from America now. It's a fact that everyone accepts but a small English speaking island that is not New Zealand. Australia and Canada have some new words added from time to time as well. Some mainly older gentlemen might just have to get over it. K? Now go twerk it!

Edited January 24, 2015 by alex8912

[beb]

vagabondinglife, on 24 Jan 2015 - 00:48, said:

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

I don't get this, had the company got your friend and he others work permits or not ?

If the company weren't getting work permits how come your friend had one ?

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.

[Soutpeel]

vagabondinglife, on 24 Jan 2015 - 00:48, said:

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

I don't get this, had the company got your friend and he others work permits or not ?

If the company weren't getting work permits how come your friend had one ?

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.Thailand

And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n

[beb]

vagabondinglife, on 24 Jan 2015 - 00:48, said:

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

I don't get this, had the company got your friend and he others work permits or not ?

If the company weren't getting work permits how come your friend had one ?

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.Thailand

And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n

'And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n"

I don't think anybody has referred to a "work visa". And if so it was probably just a slip.

The process of getting a work permit requires a trip to another country to get a Non immigrant B visa and with that the application for a work permit begins. Most people arrive in Thailand on a tourist visa so most people have to make this trip to get it changed. And if you're hired by a company, you depend on them to handle that process for you. At least in the situations I'm aware of.

There has been recent talk about streamlining the process and allowing visa changes in BK but I know people who only a few months ago had to make a trip to Laos to get the visa changed.

But the point that matters is, people who are working for companies in Thailand very often do so without a work permit in hand and that is a normal way things work. They are simply waiting for the application process to complete. There are probably thousands of people currently in Thailand who are legally working but do not have their work permit yet.

And there are probably people working here who think they are in the process of getting a permit but are unknowingly being strung along by their employers.

And then there are people that simply work off the books because that's what the employer requires.

Every one of those groups have decent, hard working people who have nothing but good intentions. And every one has people who are the worst kinds of creeps who live in Thailand for the most horrible sort of motivations.

Pretty sure this applies to the retirees as well.

[micmichd]

To me, it looks like there is some contradiction within Thai law - correct me if I'm wrong.

Normal procedure should be that you get a B-visa before you enter Thailand. For this, you have to proceed an invitation from an employee. Then you come into Thailand, and may find out there is a law that forces your employee to offer vacant jobs to Thai people first, and make sure this is in accordance with the 4 Thais to 2 Farangs quota. This would imply a long-time recruition process, checking all applicants' qualifications in order to give them a fair chance.

What happens to courses in classes in the meantime? There are still kids that need assistance to pass tests and examinations. So the school gets in a real dilemma: leave those kids alone and take the risk some fail the tests or exams because they didn't get proper assistance, or provide this assistance and run the risk to break the law.

There should be a rule to handle this dilemma during the intermediate recruitment process, to make sure all assistance is available for the school kids.

Does anyone have an idea if there is any regulation for dilemmas like this?

Edited January 25, 2015 by micmichd

[Soutpeel]

vagabondinglife, on 24 Jan 2015 - 00:48, said:

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

I don't get this, had the company got your friend and he others work permits or not ?

If the company weren't getting work permits how come your friend had one ?

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.Thailand

And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n

'And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n"

I don't think anybody has referred to a "work visa". And if so it was probably just a slip.

The process of getting a work permit requires a trip to another country to get a Non immigrant B visa and with that the application for a work permit begins. Most people arrive in Thailand on a tourist visa so most people have to make this trip to get it changed. And if you're hired by a company, you depend on them to handle that process for you. At least in the situations I'm aware of.

There has been recent talk about streamlining the process and allowing visa changes in BK but I know people who only a few months ago had to make a trip to Laos to get the visa changed.

But the point that matters is, people who are working for companies in Thailand very often do so without a work permit in hand and that is a normal way things work. They are simply waiting for the application process to complete. There are probably thousands of people currently in Thailand who are legally working but do not have their work permit yet.

And there are probably people working here who think they are in the process of getting a permit but are unknowingly being strung along by their employers.

And then there are people that simply work off the books because that's what the employer requires.

Every one of those groups have decent, hard working people who have nothing but good intentions. And every one has people who are the worst kinds of creeps who live in Thailand for the most horrible sort of motivations.

Pretty sure this applies to the retirees as well.

,you can apply for a work permit without a visa, or visa waiver, the company can apply for a WP without the person even being physically present in Thailand so your first paragraph is factually in correct, one cannot be ISSUED the WP until one is on an appropriate non imm visa

The whole intent of the system is one that all this paper work can be done up front prior to a person actually arriving to start work

[micmichd]

So, you come to Thailand with a non-immigrant O visa or a tourist visa (where you have to sign that you will not engage in any professional work), and then show you meet the requirements for the job you want, right? And you have 3 months time, then you have to go abroad for a little while, and when you return you get another 3 months permit. When they take you for the job you applied for, you get a contract from school, and a working permit, too. Now you have all papers you need for legal work, or do you still need your visa changed before you show up at the immigration next time?

[beb]

you can apply for a work permit without a visa, or visa waiver, the company can apply for a WP without the person even being physically present in Thailand so your first paragraph is factually in correct, one cannot be ISSUED the WP until one is on an appropriate non imm visa

The whole intent of the system is one that all this paper work can be done up front prior to a person actually arriving to start work

Hmm, I'm not here to debate what you can do but to discuss what really happens in most cases. I don't have statistics but pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of people that teach in Thailand show up with a tourist visa, find a job and then apply for the Non immigrant B. If you say that this is not the case then I would be shocked, Shocked!

Thailand's teacher pay is on the low end. Most people that teach here could do so in Korea for minimum 3 times the salary (without even having a TEFL certificate) or in Vietnam or Burma for substantially more money. So the recruiting for teachersin Thailand is done much more in-country than other places. Yeah, go to Korea or Japan and the vast majority of teachers arrived with a job (and on a free flight). That is not the case in Thailand. People that teach here tend to be people that chose the location over money.

[bangmai]

I have heard stories of teachers telling their employers that they wouldn't start working until they had WP in hand. It almost magically appeared in some cases. I think a lot of people lack Taxpayer ID, as well, which is also a scandal that ends up working in favor of the school.

[Emster23]

I don't think the issue here is about whether they were providing services to those outside of Thailand - its actually more to do with immigration seeing you living and "Working" here without contributing to the Thai economy. They want your dollars, so they make it harder for foreigners by enforcing the whole Visa and work permit policies, which is money directly to Thailand, and they assume that you will end up paying tax.

Presumably they don't want thousands of foreigners setting up camp here, working online, but not paying anything in taxes to the Thai Gvt. And that's their prerogative, not matter how irksome it may seem to the foreign contingent. I can actually see their point.

If it was a bunch of people coming and camping in my back yard, and tapping away on laptops - albeit providing services to China, I'd be pretty annoyed, and also - wouldn't relish the thought of another 10,000 people cottoning on to the idea and joining the camp.

Not contributing to Thai economy? You really think that? Are they living on the street? Probably not: so there is rent income. Did they bring their own food? probably not: so supporting local stores and restaurants, same goes for any and all local services. And there is the ever present VAT that is tacked onto prices, so they are paying taxes.

Are they taking jobs away from Thais? Highly doubtful. And as earlier posted, just what sort of work permit could one get? Do they arrest business people from other countries who do some online business while they are visiting Thailand? Just checking email could be considered work, if it comes from company and requires a decision.

Thailand's anti business stance is going to bite them in the arse, if it hasn't already. Just decamp and move someplace with semblance of reason to policy.

[Soutpeel]

I don't think the issue here is about whether they were providing services to those outside of Thailand - its actually more to do with immigration seeing you living and "Working" here without contributing to the Thai economy. They want your dollars, so they make it harder for foreigners by enforcing the whole Visa and work permit policies, which is money directly to Thailand, and they assume that you will end up paying tax.

Presumably they don't want thousands of foreigners setting up camp here, working online, but not paying anything in taxes to the Thai Gvt. And that's their prerogative, not matter how irksome it may seem to the foreign contingent. I can actually see their point.

If it was a bunch of people coming and camping in my back yard, and tapping away on laptops - albeit providing services to China, I'd be pretty annoyed, and also - wouldn't relish the thought of another 10,000 people cottoning on to the idea and joining the camp.

Not contributing to Thai economy? You really think that? Are they living on the street? Probably not: so there is rent income. Did they bring their own food? probably not: so supporting local stores and restaurants, same goes for any and all local services. And there is the ever present VAT that is tacked onto prices, so they are paying taxes.

Are they taking jobs away from Thais? Highly doubtful. And as earlier posted, just what sort of work permit could one get? Do they arrest business people from other countries who do some online business while they are visiting Thailand? Just checking email could be considered work, if it comes from company and requires a decision.

Thailand's anti business stance is going to bite them in the arse, if it hasn't already. Just decamp and move someplace with semblance of reason to policy.

A criminal on the run in Thailand, a drug dealers living etc etc is also " contributing" to the economy as well, so your logic suggests this is OK as well ?

Irrespective of how many ways you try to rationalise this a law or laws are being broken

[ShinMusashi44]

Erm "pants" is short for "underpants" - that are worn underneath trousers - as an American invention they were called "underpants" and not "undertrousers".

"Colour" used to be spelled "Color" in Britain too, this was the traditional spelling. It changed with the love affair with France during the powdered-wig 1700s - though most commoners, that could write, still used the non-u version until late Victorian times. It was the break between the UK and the US that sepated the evolution of the languages separately - just as Castallano Spanish differs from South American (indeed even between regions of South America) but remains intelligible across them all.

Not 100% sure about faucet - the original term was actually "spigot" as in a barrel "tap" - "tap" was term that means to remove the top, or sometimes all, of, i.e. to tap out a barrel. Faucet is used in British English as a device for helping a baby descend the plumbing during birth. Some early texts refer to taps as "spigot taps", so it probably came from there. Running water post-dates the separation of the US and UK, so the USA term came from their good buddies the French, whereas English took the term for a barrel tap and used that.

English is a bastard language anyway - arguing over it is absurd. The Germans, Italians and Greeks could just as well moan about how the British have twisted their languages!

Nope, pants come from the word pantaloon. You are correct on the color-colour. I wish more English people would know this, cause I'm tired of hearing Americans changed it. When it's the Enlgish who are the one's that changed a lot of their spellings to the French way.

My understanding is a faucet is a noun, it's the item. while tap is the action of getting something from the source. But over time the action has also become the item too. Kinda like how name brands become the name of an item (bandaid).

Faucet - a device by which a flow of liquid or gas from a pipe or container can be controlled

Tap - draw liquid through the tap or spout of (a cask, barrel, or other container).

I do get tired over all the arguing about English. No one and I mean NO one speaks original English. So really everyone is wrong lol.

[arthurwait]

vagabondinglife, on 24 Jan 2015 - 00:48, said:

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

I don't get this, had the company got your friend and he others work permits or not ?

If the company weren't getting work permits how come your friend had one ?

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.

I've had a work permit here for the last 6 years so yes I do understand how it works like having a receipt for your work permit application so where was theirs ?

Anyway back to the actual point....

As said where was their work permit application receipt ?

The poster said his friend had a work permit but the company were dragging their heals, so were they applying for work permits or not ?

Had they applied for the maximum amount the could in relation to Thais employed, capital investment ?

Were the work permits of these people who are said to have work permits applied for by this company or were people thinking they could work for this company on another companies/schools work permit ?

If some people at the company had genuine work permits why did they not tell the workers without that they were working illegally or did they and the workers who have supposedly been led astray by the company not care ?

[arthurwait]

double post

Edited January 25, 2015 by arthurwait

[Equalizer]

If you make money from inside your own home on line and you do nothing apart from pay for the connection, have no Thai's involved, sell nothing in Thailand, Buy nothing in Thailand, and the money is outland revenue, you are not in the same class as working in Thailand. You are working in cyber space. Petty and typical of Thailand to take this immature stance. Hopefully a court may look at this in a sympathetic way and realize that these people are not ticking all the prosecution boxes in the strict wording of the law for them to be convicted of any crime. Personal computers and what you do with them in the privacy of your own home financially should not classed as working as long as Thailand is in no way involved. I can put a classified add on Thai visa, sell a TV to a reader and make a few baht profit. Am i working illegally? This is actually worse than what these people have done because i have bought a product in Thailand and sold it in Thailand and made money.

[Soutpeel]

Jeez 484 posts this news must really have some arse holes twitching

Edited January 25, 2015 by Soutpeel

[sirineou]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

Yes they were Costa, they were working with out the proper permit which is a crime in Thailand and most civilized countries I know.

Using the above logic which at this time 95 others seem to like,

should offering a service that a Thai cant, not require permits or proper visas?

[Equalizer]

It's idiots like these that give other foreigners who are working here legally with a permit a bad name.

If i sold second hand goods on Thai visa's classified adds and made a few quid profit would i be working and be an idiot? You should maybe try to understand the gravity of what you are saying, You need a work permit when you are financially tied to Thailand, work in Thailand's economy, your INCOME is inland. Not when money is OUTLAND and Thailand is not involved in any capacity whatsoever.

[arthurwait]

[

I don't know the details of this particular situation but do know about the realities of working here. the Work visa process is not a simple affair (laughable that some here seem to think it must be as if anything in Thailand is) and involves a trip out of the country for application for the visa and then a wait for the permit to be issued. And that wait can be long. Months.

I've seen people in a very legit situation in which they were waiting months after making their trip. And they were waiting for the school to provide the permit. The school handles the processing.

If you're complaining that these employees didn't do what is required then you probably don't understand how things work in the real working world for expats. People work without work permits in hand as they wait for the processing. And they depend on their employer to get all the processing taken care of.

All of the paperwork is in Thai and practically impossible for a Farang to understand. In fact, it's not easy for Thais. I met a guy in Laos who was on his second attempt at getting a work visa. His first trip was a bust because his employer failed to provide all the necessary documents. And believe it or not, the same thing happened to him again on this trip. When we said our goodbyes, he was on his way back home with plans for a 3rd trip to attempt to get a work visa.

I'm not saying any of is the case in this situation because i just don't know enough to pretend to have an opinion. But I do know that a lot of assumptions here are simply wrong.Thailand

And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n

'And this is why people think things are complicated, you don't understand the process, why does one have to travel out the country of get a work visa ?, simply because there is no such thing as a work visa, and secondly the Work permit is issued in Thailand

Of course all the paper work is in Thai n:o guess what they speak Thai in Thailand, further people are not entitled as non citizens in Thailand hence the reason its "sponsored" by a company or entity

Having worked under multiple work permit/ work visa systems around the world let me assure you Thailands system is pretty simple, and pretty efficient n"

I don't think anybody has referred to a "work visa". And if so it was probably just a slip.

The process of getting a work permit requires a trip to another country to get a Non immigrant B visa and with that the application for a work permit begins. Most people arrive in Thailand on a tourist visa so most people have to make this trip to get it changed. And if you're hired by a company, you depend on them to handle that process for you. At least in the situations I'm aware of.

There has been recent talk about streamlining the process and allowing visa changes in BK but I know people who only a few months ago had to make a trip to Laos to get the visa changed.

But the point that matters is, people who are working for companies in Thailand very often do so without a work permit in hand and that is a normal way things work. They are simply waiting for the application process to complete. There are probably thousands of people currently in Thailand who are legally working but do not have their work permit yet.

And there are probably people working here who think they are in the process of getting a permit but are unknowingly being strung along by their employers.

And then there are people that simply work off the books because that's what the employer requires.

Every one of those groups have decent, hard working people who have nothing but good intentions. And every one has people who are the worst kinds of creeps who live in Thailand for the most horrible sort of motivations.

Pretty sure this applies to the retirees as well.

[Soutpeel]

It's idiots like these that give other foreigners who are working here legally with a permit a bad name.

If i sold second hand goods on Thai visa's classified adds and made a few quid profit would i be working and be an idiot? You should maybe try to understand the gravity of what you are saying, You need a work permit when you are financially tied to Thailand, work in Thailand's economy, your INCOME is inland. Not when money is OUTLAND and Thailand is not involved in any capacity whatsoever.

OK will accept what your saying if you can quote me the section in the labour act which refers to this,

Fact where you earn your money or even if you earn money has absolutely no bearing on whether your working in Thailand or not, further if in the example you refer to a official from the DOL says your working, your working it is that simple

Edited January 25, 2015 by Soutpeel

[arthurwait]

If i sold second hand goods on Thai visa's classified adds and made a few quid profit would i be working and be an idiot? You should maybe try to understand the gravity of what you are saying, You need a work permit when you are financially tied to Thailand, work in Thailand's economy, your INCOME is inland. Not when money is OUTLAND and Thailand is not involved in any capacity whatsoever.

The gravity ?

What has what selling stuff on Thaivisa classified ads got to do with working for a company in Thailand ?

Is what you say is within the terms of your tourist or retirement visa or not ?

So if you sold goods on Thaivisa in Thailand your money wouldn't be in Thailand ?

[Equalizer]

Well you find me legislation in the Thai DOL legislature that can tick the boxes to find a person a criminal siting in his home using his computer. This is a huge gray area and even the main immigration official has come out and said words to this effect. As long as their are no Thais involved whatsoever and the business is not registered in Thailand, nothing is sold in Thailand, nothing is purchased in Thailand the Thai employment laws have holes in them to prosecute such a case. OK in this example they did over step the mark, however the facts are in certain circumstances prosecuting a person doing what i suggest would open the floodgates to people coming here not being able the check a bloody email.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.