Study: Germans have skeptical view of Israel

[harryfrompattaya]

Wow the German put Jews Yes Jews in Camps now they are skeptical.

Are the afraid that the Jews will put Germans in Camps.

This proves they the Germans still are crazy.

[BKKBobby]

Saying that the 'palestinians' had their chance to get a 'good' deal but refused and therefore can blame themselves and not ask for the same deal again are the reasoning of kids.

Who else can the Palestinians blame but themselves? The Jews agreed to the deal and have had their own country for 66 years, which is thriving. The Palestinian Arabs refused and have tried to rely on terrorism for all that time, but it has not worked and has done nothing but make things for them worse. Time to try signing a peace deal and negotiating borders as they committed to in the Oslo Accords.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

They should be offered the same deal again. Even if they can blame themselves. "You missed your chance". Sounds childish. Israel wants to solve the mess right here right now, right? Edited February 14, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Jingthing]

Neither side are saints. But yes i consider Israel to be the side that is acting less good.

...

So it's a contest, it is?

If so, what is the prize?

Dude, Israel wants to keep their state and yes have no doubt often been heavy handed in enforcing that, and the majority of Arabs who identify as Palestinians don't want a two state solution, they want the Jews gone from what they fictitiously conceive of as "Palestine" including Israel / West Bank / Gaza. If you have a peaceful idea to magically fix this, please contact the proper authorities.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Saying that the 'palestinians' had their chance to get a 'good' deal but refused and therefore can blame themselves and not ask for the same deal again are the reasoning of kids.

Who else can the Palestinians blame but themselves? The Jews agreed to the deal and have had their own country for 66 years, which is thriving. The Palestinian Arabs refused and have tried to rely on terrorism for all that time, but it has not worked and has done nothing but make things for them worse. Time to try signing a peace deal and negotiating borders as they committed to in the Oslo Accords.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

They should be offered the same deal again.

Nope. They blew that chance.

They have cost Israel too much blood and treasure with their foolish intransigence over many decades. Israel's security concerns have to be taken in consideration and they must negotiate borders as they committed to in the Oslo Accords. They Palestinians have proved over and over again that they can not be trusted and there is no reason to go back to the deal that they refused.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Smurkster]

all this malarkey about "the palestinians have never had a state"....and the jews? maybe 1,500 years ago....they left, diaspora, went to Europe and also many different places in the Middle East.... the land that was historically known as "judea and Israel" was ruled by various different empires and nations (including a long period of Ottoman suzerainty). So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans? simply saying there has never been a nation of Palestine doesn't cut it...Arabs have also lived in the region for thousands of years....its like selling your house and while the new owners are in, you come back 20 years later and say"sorry, we are taking this back because we once had a claim to it" total BS and MOSt of the world knows it....save for my country ( do I even have to say?)

[Jingthing]

Another voice claiming Israel doesn't have a right to exist.

If you're one of the millions of Israelis, can you see how they will have a big problem with that?

Dudes ... step one for Arabs and the world is giving up on narrative that Israel shouldn't exist in the first place.

It's WAY too late for such arguments.

No (peaceful) progress can be made without that basic acceptance of Israel existing.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans?

Simple. It was given to them by the UN. The Palestinians had the same chance, but they blew it. Israel won a bunch of wars and built a thriving country with one of the best armies in the world and a very decent economy. The truth is that no one can take it away from them.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Neither side are saints. But yes i consider Israel to be the side that is acting less good.

...

So it's a contest, it is?

If so, what is the prize?

Dude, Israel wants to keep their state and yes have no doubt often been heavy handed in enforcing that, and the majority of Arabs who identify as Palestinians don't want a two state solution, they want the Jews gone from what they fictitiously conceive of as "Palestine" including Israel / West Bank / Gaza. If you have a peaceful idea to magically fix this, please contact the proper authorities.

That is utterly ridiculous and false. Way back in 1993 during the Oslo Accords Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority has recognized Israel.Some sources state that at a press conference in Sweden as early as 1988 Arafat recognized |Israel too.

The whole Arab world, PA and Iran have agreed to recognize Israel in secure borders in perpetuity, exchange of ambassadors, trade the works in return for a just peace agreement based on the 67 borders (incl land swaps), a deal over Jerusalem as joint capital, and compensation for displaced Palestinian refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Hamas has repeatedly agreed to an indefinite truce and to accept, not recognize, Israel within its 1967 borders, if Israel will do the same for a Palestinian state.

The problem is that so far Israel has been unwilling to recognize a state of Palestine based on the 1967 borders.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

[dexterm]

So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans?

Simple. It was given to them by the UN. The Palestinians had the same chance, but they blew it. Israel won a bunch of wars and built a thriving country with one of the best armies in the world and a very decent economy. The truth is that no one can take it away from them.

That is a very immature argument. You've got to ask yourself does Israel want peace at all, or does it want to spend another 100 years like a petulant schoolboy saying "Nah nah na nah..I told you so...gave you a chance ..not playing any more now".

Leaders make mistakes , as did Zionist leaders in 1937 if they had tried harder to make the Peel Commission deal succeed. Then 6 million Jews would have been saved from the Holocaust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission

If Israeli intransigence continues, I think the initiative will come from Palestinians taking legal non violent action via the ICC, UN, and the BDS movement transformed into full blown EU sanctions. Only when Israelis are severely hit in their hip pockets will their hearts and minds follow, as happened in the anti apartheid campaign against South Africa.

Edited February 14, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans?

Simple. It was given to them by the UN. The Palestinians had the same chance, but they blew it. Israel won a bunch of wars and built a thriving country with one of the best armies in the world and a very decent economy. The truth is that no one can take it away from them.

That is a very immature argument. You've got to ask yourself does Israel want peace at all, or does it want to spend another 100 years like a petulant schoolboy saying "Nah nah na nah..I told you so...gave you a chance ..not playing any more now".

Leaders make mistakes , as did Zionist leaders in 1937 if they had tried harder to make the Peel Commission deal succeed. Then 6 million Jews would have been saved from the Holocaust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission

Why do you insist on posting the same discredited arguments over and over again? It has been pointed out to you repeatedly that the Arabs were the ones that refused the deal point blank - not the Jews. How were they supposed to have "tried harder". Try reading the links that you post. The ones form credible sources usually prove you wrong.

"The Arabs emphatically rejected the principle of awarding any territory to the Jews."

[Seastallion]

Another voice claiming Israel doesn't have a right to exist.

If you're one of the millions of Israelis, can you see how they will have a big problem with that?

Dudes ... step one for Arabs and the world is giving up on narrative that Israel shouldn't exist in the first place.

It's WAY too late for such arguments.

No (peaceful) progress can be made without that basic acceptance of Israel existing.

Right there! That's what you and many others constantly do; you spin things to make it look like antisemitism or, as in this case, denial of Israel's right to exist.

Nowhere did he imply that Israel has no right to exist. He said Palestine's right to exist is on a par with Israel's right. The ONLY way you can infer that he was saying Israel has no right to exist is if you take for granted that Palestine has no right to come into existence.

Step 1 is for Zionists to admit Palestine has a right to exist.

Step 2 is to stop the incessant spinning of all pro-Palestine or anti-Zionism into antisemitism and denial of Israel's right to exist.

[Smurkster]

The argument that "Palestine" was never a country is just too rich.....because Israel has a leg imitate claim to any land themselves....(rolls eyes like never before)

[Ulysses G.]

The whole Arab world, PA and Iran have agreed to recognize Israel in secure borders in perpetuity, exchange of ambassadors, trade the works in return for a just peace agreement based on the 67 borders (incl land swaps), a deal over Jerusalem as joint capital, and compensation for displaced Palestinian refugees.

Why do you keep posting this nonsense. Hamas is half the Palestinian government and they refuse. As usual, your own link proves this is a lie.

For the hundredth time, an "indefinite truce" does not recognize or accept Israel. Hamas can start fighting again the next day if they choose to and few doubt that they would.

"At that time, Hamas rejected not only peace with Israel but even negotiations with it.[17] The official administration of Hamas never recognized the Initiative, which alienated it from members of the Arab League, especially Jordan and Egypt.[45] One of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' conditions of forming a national coalition government with Hamas after the 2006 election was that Hamas had to recognize the Initiative, but he was unsuccessful."

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[DPIZZA]

"...explain to me when ever there was a country (not a region as you say) that was called Palestine?"

It can't be done. There never was a country called Palestine OR a people called Palestinians until the PLO under Yasser Arafat chose those names for themselves in the 1980's.

Historically Palestine was a region that included parts or all of several countries and its inhabitants had their own names corresponding to their own countries - countries which still exist.

Pretending that there was a country called Palestine or a people called Palestinians before the 1980's is pure fraud.

And when did the country of Israel come into existence? Where are the countries Ceylon or Siam? When did the republics of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Croatia come into existence? South Africa?

This "no such country as Palestine" is a silly argument that has absolutely no point to it.

Seastallion,

Again, the logic that is valid against Israel is not valid against Palestine...

You want me to count how many times your side of the argument used the:"Israel has no right to exist as a country because its a make believe country, by make believe God?"

So we are saying, lets talk on the same level, lets bring this matter for a discussion, lets see if Palestine is a legitimate country as well.

To the argument:

Most countries in the world has some defining characteristics, which differentiate it and its ethnic group from others. It can be a common history, common culture, common ethnicity, or any combination of them. Many started as a kingdom before transforming into a modern country.

This is what we know from archaeological point of view, not the bible: Israel and Judea were 2 related kingdoms in the Levant. Israel apparently rose to power around 900 BC, and Judah separated from Israel and became independent kingdom around 800 BC.

lets see the others:

Siam is the ancient name of Thailand, which was used by foreigners. The Thais always called themselves Thai. The name Siam is mentioned first time in the 12'th century. So Siam is Thailand.

Ceylon is the name the British gave to Sri-Lanka of today, from the Portuguese name Ceilão. The locals called it Lanka or Sinhala.

So Ceylon is Sri-Lanka.

The Serbs are one of the Slavic nations. They arrived into the Balkans around 5-7 AD, and mixed with local population (Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Romans, Celts). The started to establish several city states in the area, and in 1217 the Serbian Kingdom obtained recognition by Rome and Constantinople in 1217.

Montenegrin statehood dates back to the medieval independent states of Duklja and Zeta, and subsequently Montenegro, which was the only nation in the Balkans which defied the Ottoman conquest in the Balkans, part of it remaining free and independent during the whole period. Duklja gained its independence from the Byzantine Roman Empire in 1042.

Bosnian established the first independent banate in the region, known as the Banate of Bosnia, in the early 12th century upon the arrival and convergence of peoples that would eventually come to call themselvesDobri Bošnjani ("Good Bosnians"). Later the Ottomans brought Islam to the Bosnian and changed their cultural and social outlook.

The Croats arrived in the area of present-day Croatia during the early part of the 7th century AD. They organised the state into two duchies by the 9th century.The Croats are South Slavic people.

NOW , please tell me the history of Palestinian people and the Palestinian kingdom, and their origin, ethnicity, and first mentioned instance!

Thanks for the history lesson. Much of it simple general knowledge and thus why I was able to suggest them off the cuff. The new revelations were interesting, thanks. Unfortunately, pretty pointless, though, because of your first paragraph; I, (and indeed others) am not arguing from the standpoint of "Israel has no right blah blah blah....".

So, before I go on, I'll ask you one question: Do you deny the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination on their own sovereign land?

Even if you never said that "Israel has no right to exist..." your side of the argument often does, and its just a matter of searching for those comments, but i dont want to waste our time on pettiness.

You asked me a question: "when did Israel came into existence?", and tried to make similar references to other countries; i answered your questions, and i think it is clear that Israel indeed has a history, unique culture and religion in the area.

So, before i answer your next question, i ask the same courtesy from you, please answer my question i asked first:

"Tell me what is the history of Palestinian people, the Palestinian kingdom, their origin, ethnicity, and first mentioned instance?"

I will give you just a pretext for my answer to your question, so you know im serious enough: i do believe that the Palestinians should have the right to live in dignity and prosperity... but my question first!

[DPIZZA]

So, before I go on, I'll ask you one question: Do you deny the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination on their own sovereign land?

I'm not sure what your definition of "sovereign land" is, but I don't think that it applies to the Palestinians. They turned down the UN deal that would have given them sovereign land and - as things stand today - they have no permanent borders and they are not independent of outside authority. A fine mess they have put themselves in.

The stupid comment I ever listen. THEY are the owner of the land. How much percent of their land they loosed about this deal? They, or their parents grow up there before it was stolen from they. If you are in their position you never want accept it too. All other is bs!!! But the point is that this all is not against the Jews, this is against the racisms ISRAELIS. If the palestine communities grow up a little bit, Israel bomb they again in the nirvana. How much cost it to build a house, a school, a hospita? How much times Israel destroyed it again. The point is that maybe 10 percent of the palestines help the terrorists but ISRAEL treat ALL PALESTINES!!! If I just read what you NAZI likes wrote, I understand that ISRAEL never want give back the occupied land and and tell in 300 years still: This is about our safety!!! What a BS!!!

"...i ever heard" not "listen..." but to the point:

Where exactly is your proof that the Palestinians were the owners of the land? under which rule or law that ownership was given?

If you show me that there was a Palestinian state before Israel ruled by Palestinian nation, i would take your words seriously...but you see, there wasnt any such state or kingdom.

If you refer to the Ottomans, then its wrong, because although the Ottomans were Muslims as well, they were Turks not Arab, and they spoke Turkish, not Arabic.

And if we are talking about languages, do you know that if the Palestinians are a nation, they are the only one in the world that cant pronounce their name correctly?

What is your level of Arabic? if you knew any, you would notice that there is no letter with the sound of "P" in Arabic!

There is "B" and "F" but no "P", so they say "Balastin" or "Falastin" instead of "Palastin". How come this supposedly ancient nation doesnt have a name of their own in Arabic, a name with some meaning in Arabic?

"Grow up a little bit?!?!" DID YOU MISS THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE GENOCIDE CLAIM?

i'll say it again: The population of the Palestinians DIDNT DECREASE since 1967, IT INCREASED BY 3.3%! ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING POPULATIONS IN THE WORLD!

So there is NO genocie with the Palesntinians!

Instead of spreading here hysteria and exaggerated emotions and drama, will you bring 1 logical argument here?

Enough of the propaganda...

[Seastallion]

And when did the country of Israel come into existence? Where are the countries Ceylon or Siam? When did the republics of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Croatia come into existence? South Africa?

This "no such country as Palestine" is a silly argument that has absolutely no point to it.

Seastallion,

Again, the logic that is valid against Israel is not valid against Palestine...

You want me to count how many times your side of the argument used the:"Israel has no right to exist as a country because its a make believe country, by make believe God?"

So we are saying, lets talk on the same level, lets bring this matter for a discussion, lets see if Palestine is a legitimate country as well.

To the argument:

Most countries in the world has some defining characteristics, which differentiate it and its ethnic group from others. It can be a common history, common culture, common ethnicity, or any combination of them. Many started as a kingdom before transforming into a modern country.

This is what we know from archaeological point of view, not the bible: Israel and Judea were 2 related kingdoms in the Levant. Israel apparently rose to power around 900 BC, and Judah separated from Israel and became independent kingdom around 800 BC.

lets see the others:

Siam is the ancient name of Thailand, which was used by foreigners. The Thais always called themselves Thai. The name Siam is mentioned first time in the 12'th century. So Siam is Thailand.

Ceylon is the name the British gave to Sri-Lanka of today, from the Portuguese name Ceilão. The locals called it Lanka or Sinhala.

So Ceylon is Sri-Lanka.

The Serbs are one of the Slavic nations. They arrived into the Balkans around 5-7 AD, and mixed with local population (Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Romans, Celts). The started to establish several city states in the area, and in 1217 the Serbian Kingdom obtained recognition by Rome and Constantinople in 1217.

Montenegrin statehood dates back to the medieval independent states of Duklja and Zeta, and subsequently Montenegro, which was the only nation in the Balkans which defied the Ottoman conquest in the Balkans, part of it remaining free and independent during the whole period. Duklja gained its independence from the Byzantine Roman Empire in 1042.

Bosnian established the first independent banate in the region, known as the Banate of Bosnia, in the early 12th century upon the arrival and convergence of peoples that would eventually come to call themselvesDobri Bošnjani ("Good Bosnians"). Later the Ottomans brought Islam to the Bosnian and changed their cultural and social outlook.

The Croats arrived in the area of present-day Croatia during the early part of the 7th century AD. They organised the state into two duchies by the 9th century.The Croats are South Slavic people.

NOW , please tell me the history of Palestinian people and the Palestinian kingdom, and their origin, ethnicity, and first mentioned instance!

Thanks for the history lesson. Much of it simple general knowledge and thus why I was able to suggest them off the cuff. The new revelations were interesting, thanks. Unfortunately, pretty pointless, though, because of your first paragraph; I, (and indeed others) am not arguing from the standpoint of "Israel has no right blah blah blah....".

So, before I go on, I'll ask you one question: Do you deny the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination on their own sovereign land?

Even if you never said that "Israel has no right to exist..." your side of the argument often does, and its just a matter of searching for those comments, but i dont want to waste our time on pettiness.

You asked me a question: "when did Israel came into existence?", and tried to make similar references to other countries; i answered your questions, and i think it is clear that Israel indeed has a history, unique culture and religion in the area.

So, before i answer your next question, i ask the same courtesy from you, please answer my question i asked first:

"Tell me what is the history of Palestinian people, the Palestinian kingdom, their origin, ethnicity, and first mentioned instance?"

I will give you just a pretext for my answer to your question, so you know im serious enough: i do believe that the Palestinians should have the right to live in dignity and prosperity... but my question first!

"First mentioned existance" is wordplay and carries no import. Kingdom is irrelevant....you're setting a standard that is often helpful, but not a necessity. Ethnicity...well they're Semites, aren't they (incidentally much more genetically semitic than most Israelis)?

The pertinent factor is these people have lived on the land for countless generations, going back as far as the old Israel and Judea.

It's fairly well established practice these days for colonial powers to recognise "customary usage". This, or a similar principle, is what gives the natives of the area a right to what they have always lived on.

[Choctastic]

'Enough of the propaganda.' That's rich.

'Hasbara-bots' using sick, twisted invention to sell Human Rights violations and settlement expansion, are excluded, I presume.

1. The near universal horror of killing civilians is totally unjustified because... well... their numbers have actually increased and btw it wasn't our fault. Hamas forced them in front of our missiles.

2. There is no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians and why should you care, anyway. They are 'sub-human'.

3. How can we be ethnic-cleansing, when these people are on OUR land (promised to us by... umm... us)?

4. We can't be murderers and thieves. We are victims! Remember the holocaust.

5. Anyone protesting our murder and thievery aren't decent, moral and caring. They are radical Jew haters.

Condemnation about propaganda should work both ways. Right?

'...more than any single person in the U.S., Frank Luntz has been responsible for teaching thousands of eager warriors for the Israeli government how to sell human rights violations and settlement expansion to increasingly dubious audiences.'

http://muzzlewatch.com/2014/11/14/frank-luntzs-latest-hasbara-talking-points-how-to-defend-israel-post-gaza/

[Ulysses G.]

Ethnicity...well they're Semites, aren't they (incidentally much more genetically semitic than most Israelis)?

This type of ignorance and dishonesty is typical of your posts. There is no such thing as "genetically semitic". Semitic refers to groups that speak a group of related semitic languages. It has NOTHING to do with race or heredity.

[Naam]

Ethnicity...well they're Semites, aren't they (incidentally much more genetically semitic than most Israelis)?

This type of ignorance and dishonesty is typical of your posts. There is no such thing as "genetically semitic". Semitic refers to groups that speak a group of related semitic languages. It has NOTHING to do with race or heredity.

that "genetically" does not apply is clearly documented by the different facial features, id est (generalising) "Ayrabs big noses, Jews tiny ones".

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone know that Italians are semitic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Durante

Edited February 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

Everyone know that Italians are semitic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Durante

This thread has become a joke.

Who cares if semite refer to linguistics or genetics. Arabs and jews are semites and nose measuring makes me remember the discusting practice of Nazis of checking jewishness.

Edited February 16, 2015 by BKKBobby

[losworld]

So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans?

Simple. It was given to them by the UN. The Palestinians had the same chance, but they blew it. Israel won a bunch of wars and built a thriving country with one of the best armies in the world and a very decent economy. The truth is that no one can take it away from them.

Not quite so simple. Isreael has received massive aid both militarily and financially from the US and still does. Regarding terrorism Israel was partly created by the terrorist actions of jewish rebels trying to intimidate the British into leaving Israel. There are always two sides to a coin but you can only see one side. It takes two to tango or to tangle.

Edited February 16, 2015 by losworld

[BKKBobby]

Im not going to be a part in this thread anymore. 95% of the people that take part in this thread defend everything Israelis/arabs do. Its just a verbal contest. None of you will agree with eachother, you will not meet in the middle. Arabs are human, jews are human, we all are human. Peace and love, bye!

[Ulysses G.]

So exactly, what more of claim do the Jews have to the land than the palestininans?

Simple. It was given to them by the UN. The Palestinians had the same chance, but they blew it. Israel won a bunch of wars and built a thriving country with one of the best armies in the world and a very decent economy. The truth is that no one can take it away from them.

Not quite so simple. Isreael has received massive aid both militarily and financially from the US and still does. Regarding terrorism Israel was partly created by the terrorist actions of jewish rebels trying to intimidate the British into leaving Israel. There are always two sides to a coin but you can only see one side. It takes two to tango or to tangle.

Israel received little aid from the US government until they won the 1967 war so overwhelmingly and the US deemed them worthy of being close allies, because they are useful to us. America mostly provides them military aid which is almost all spent on US weapons and benefits our arms industry.

Both the Jews and the Arabs fought with the Brits, because they stabbed both sides in the back and terrorism was used by both sides. That is how wars were commonly fought back then. It was only a few years after Hiroshima and Dresden.

[Jay Sata]

Im not going to be a part in this thread anymore. 95% of the people that take part in this thread defend everything Israelis/arabs do. Its just a verbal contest. None of you will agree with eachother, you will not meet in the middle. Arabs are human, jews are human, we all are human. Peace and love, bye!

I understand how you feel about those who spend their Thai days just spouting thousands of posts on the same old nonsense about people they have never met and places they don't know.

The Germans I know are not the rabid radicals who would even bother to think about Israel and Gaza were it not for the disparity that exists between Israel and oppressed Palestinians.

Netanyahu is the biggest culprit for generating anti Israel feelings across the world and the death and destruction of Gaza has done a lot of damage to his nations portrayal in global media.

All I can say reading your post is that I am a fair minded European and not someone from a more blinkered part of the world.

I often feel it is a waste of time engaging in a discussion on certain topics here knowing what the outcome will be.

[DPIZZA]

Neither side are saints. But yes i consider Israel to be the side that is acting less good.

Saying that the 'palestinians' had their chance to get a 'good' deal but refused and therefore can blame themselves and not ask for the same deal again are the reasoning of kids. They maybe hoped for more at that time? Maybe it was the leader at the time who made the mistake? Someone here did a post were he indirectly suggested that people are too concerned about Israel considering that theres a lot of horrible/unfair/whatever stuff going on elsewhere. And something I read that making of sovereign states usually isnt "clean". He was trying to lead it to be "you are anti-semites". Not true. My first crush/girlfriend who took my virginity had a polish jewish father with a family member killed in the holocaust. I had a russian jewish girlfriend who frequently visited Israel in my late teens. I have a friend which has a polish jew father and israeli mother who served in the army. Her older brother emigrated to Israel to do military service and seek his roots in a country he never lived in or was born in, but ended up living in a refugee camp for arabs in Jenin, he feels that Israel are the side that do more wrong than the 'palestinians' and he dedicates his life to helping their miserable situation.

BKKBobby,

Yes, neither side are saints, its called war, and war in the middle east is a war for survival. You just need to look north of Israel in Syria and see what is happening to minorities there, and then east of Israel in Iraq again to see what is happening to minorities (if you dont know what i'm talking about i'm willing to explain on request from you...).

You seem to misunderstand the situation on 1948 and now: when the Israelis say "the Palis missed their chance" it is not to gloat their bad luck.It is a pragmatic view of the current situation in the area,and what other sustainable solutions can be offered for the region in the future.

It is not just that the "Palestinians expected a better deal" in 1948, that's the understatement of the century!

They together with the Arab League, who attacked with 5 armies and 3 more volunteering militias, the then newly established Jewish state of 700,000 people, boasted that "the land will be full of Jewish blood" and that they are going to "drive the Jews to the sea"; which in a nutshell meant the extermination of the Jews in Israel. So yes, they expected "a better deal"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&feature=channel_video_title

Since then, about 70 years past and the world changed,Israel had 5 major wars, and countless operations with the Arab world. Also the way wars are fought,specifically artillery and ballistic missiles change the strategic thinking. Also the balance of powers and threats change constantly around Israel:Iraq attacked Israel with Skad missile in the Golf War, ISIS trying to take over Iraq and threatens Jordan, Civil war in Syria, Al-Quaida trying to get ground in Gaza, West Bank, Sinai desert in Egypt, Hezbollah threatens Israel in Lebanon, etc...

Israel has security concerns that need pragmatic solutions, and that is why the map of partition from 1948 cannot answer those questions anymore. That is why Palestinians missed their chance!

i couldnt find an English video, so this one in Hebrew,the distances are in Km, it explains the problem Israel face: who ever controls the West Bank, can attack most of the cities in Israel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFlU-OZqU8&NR=1

About the "There are horrible stuff happening somewhere else" comments:

The fact that more terrible things happens somewhere else, doesnt mean that Israelis can do less terrible things in their country, you got it all wrong!

The idea of showing that there are more terrible things elsewhere is just to show you the hypocrisy of the world towards Israel. That Israel is being judged in a way that other nations are not being judged.

How can you explain that only the Palestinians have their special UN organization that take care of their refugees, when all the rest of the world's refugees are concentrated under single other organization?

How can you explain that around 75% of the decisions of the UN Human Rights Council are directed against Israel, when we see bloody massacres with thousands of people dying all around the world, especially in the Muslim world? (remember that the total number of Arabs dying due to the Israelis conflict is around 20,000 in 70 years!). How can you explain that those same countries (Arab world) that push for those decisions, violate most of the Human Rights in their countries, especially of those same Palestinians thy claim to protect?

How can you explain, that no one ever talks (not even dreaming of taking care of their problem) about the Arab Jewish refugees, or their suffer, or their lost, cause again by those same Arab nations?

I dont think you are an antisemite. With the kind of propaganda and delegitimization of Israel and Jews today, i think it is hard to get truthful information. But you are using their arguments.

I dont know about "your friend's brother's" motives or story. I'm sure there are many stories from both sides of the argument.

here is such a story. I want to bring to you the story of a Christian Lebanese woman, who became a supporter of Israel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBZkOIAsKF4

[Bwanatickey]

Well after the weekends events in Demark , I wonder what the Germans think now.

[JingerBen]

Well after the weekends events in Demark , I wonder what the Germans think now.

Quite a few in Pattaya this time of year.

Why don't you go ask them?

[Jingthing]

Well after the weekends events in Demark , I wonder what the Germans think now.

Quite a few in Pattaya this time of year.

Why don't you go ask them?

That's especially interesting to ask really really OLD Germans.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[green job]

Everyone know that Italians are semitic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Durante

Yes true,,,, Why is italy shaped like a boot? = You could not get that much Sxxt in a shoe.