Study: Germans have skeptical view of Israel

[webfact]

Study: Germans have skeptical view of Israel
By KIRSTEN GRIESHABER

BERLIN (AP) — Seventy years after the liberation of Auschwitz, some 58 percent of Germans say the past should be consigned to history, while three-quarters of Israelis reject the idea of putting the past behind them.

Some 48 percent of Germans also say their opinion of today's Israel is poor and the Germans' view of the Israeli government is even worse, with 62 percent expressing a negative opinion.

Israelis have a much better view of today's Germany, with 68 percent saying they have a positive image of the country, while only 24 percent have a poor opinion.

The figures are the results of a study by the Bertelsmann Foundation released Monday. The foundation questioned 1,000 Germans and 1,001 Israelis for the poll; the margin of error was 3 percent.

According to the study, the perception of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has an increasingly dominant impact on the way Germans view Israel as a whole.

Some 35 percent of Germans equate Israeli policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi policies toward the Jews, an increase from 30 percent in 2007, when the foundation conducted a similar study.

Nonetheless, a majority of both Israelis and Germans believe that Germany still has a special responsibility toward Israel because of its history.

During the Third Reich, the Germans killed 6 million European Jews in the Holocaust, many of them at the Auschwitz death camp.

"In Germany the persecution of Jews is viewed as a dark chapter in German history, but not as an essential part of its identity; quite the opposite, Germans would prefer it as an anomaly," the authors of the study wrote in an analysis of their findings.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-01-26

[JAG]

I should imagine that a significant number of Israelis maintain a healthy scepticism with regard to Germany!

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

[whatawonderfulday]

Well I prefer to go back to the crusades around 1215. If both the English and French kings at that time could have raised sufficient money there would never have been a problem in the 20th and 21st centuries with either Israel or the Muslim fanatics.

[Jingthing]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

They've still got some Nazis there too ...

There is a lot to admire in modern Germany, from Israelis and everyone.

Their leader Merkel seems to be very impressive and fighting hard there against both antisemitism and discrimination solely based on Muslim identity.

Some Israelis are even migrating to Germany ... while the motivation may be that there are great opportunities there (yes even such things as affordable housing compared to Israel), it's surely a good thing for some Jews to move to Germany after so many were exterminated by the Nazis as if they were cockroaches.

The geopolitical situations of Israel and Germany are very different. Israel still faces existential threats. Germany is on top of Europe. It's ironic of course as Germany lost two great wars ... but that's another story.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

A lot of the threats Israel faces are because of their far right leaders and persecution of the Palestinians.

Not to mention their nuclear weapons.

[Ulysses G.]

If the Palestinians don't want to be "persecuted" they can stop the terrorism and sign a peace treaty. They are the ones who decided to make Israel their enemy.

Israel's nukes don't cause problems. They solve them.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Anyway, there is no objective equivalence between the Nazi Third Reich and the government policies of Israel and it is a shame that so many modern Germans (and others) can't grasp that obvious fact. Of course Israel isn't perfect either (now list all the other modern countries that aren't perfect ... if you have a lot of time).

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[mania]

555 I guess it is out of the question that some modern day

Germans might just be ....how should put it we delicately so as to not be labeled anti-something or other......

Not happy with Israel's governments policies?

Nah can't be that eh? They must be all brainwashed Nazi lovers or something

Edited January 26, 2015 by mania

[Jingthing]

555 I guess it is out of the question that some modern day

Germans might just be ....how should put it we delicately so as to not be labeled anti-something or other......

Not happy with Israel's governments policies?

Nah can't be that eh? They must be all brainwashed Nazi lovers or something

"Not happy" is not the same thing as this:

Some 35 percent of Germans equate Israeli policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi policies toward the Jews, an increase from 30 percent in 2007, when the foundation conducted a similar study.

That's totally messed up and totally wrong. Yes, it is their "opinion" but objectively it is still totally wrong. Nazi policy towards Jews was mass extermination in industrialized death camps. Do Germans not learn this in their schools?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[konying]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

Hardly , but plenty of Iranians, Turks and alike who are now "German"

[Jingthing]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

Hardly , but plenty of Iranians, Turks and alike who are now "German"

Well, European antisemitism (and yes equating modern Israel to Nazi Germany is definitely an expression of antisemitism) is coming from an odd mix of fascists, leftists, and politicized Islamic ideology as well. BTW, I have read that Israeli cultural stuff is quite trendy in Berlin, especially Israeli food ... but Germans usually don't like garlic (so sad).

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This speech, perhaps somewhat indirectly, perhaps not, addresses how wrong it is to equate Nazi Germany to modern Israel:

[Steely Dan]

555 I guess it is out of the question that some modern day
Germans might just be ....how should put it we delicately so as to not be labeled anti-something or other......
Not happy with Israel's governments policies?


Nah can't be that eh? They must be all brainwashed Nazi lovers or something

"Not happy" is not the same thing as this:

Some 35 percent of Germans equate Israeli policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi policies toward the Jews, an increase from 30 percent in 2007, when the foundation conducted a similar study.
That's totally messed up and totally wrong. Yes, it is their "opinion" but objectively it is still totally wrong. Nazi policy towards Jews was mass extermination in industrialized death camps. Do Germans not learn this in their schools?

They probably do, but liberal-left moral equivalence for all gives you an easy out from your past, even though it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Scott

[ABCer]

If the Palestinians don't want to be "persecuted" they can stop the terrorism and sign a peace treaty. They are the ones who decided to make Israel their enemy.

Israel's nukes don't cause problems. They solve them.

Even if they have signed a peace treaty - my advice to Israelis would be not to believe them.

Israel's nukes don't cause problems. They prevent them. Hope they will never have to solve them.

Germans looking sceptically at Israel could be compared only to Russians looking sceptically at Germans.

If I were an Israeli I would look sceptically at all of Europe - in 30 years all of them will be wearing hoods or raising their behinds up five times daily.

[Jingthing]

I hope Europe can do better than that but hope and five bucks gets you a coffee at Starbucks.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Lissos]

Well I prefer to go back to the crusades around 1215. If both the English and French kings at that time could have raised sufficient money there would never have been a problem in the 20th and 21st centuries with either Israel or the Muslim fanatics.

[ABCer]

Well I prefer to go back to the crusades around 1215. If both the English and French kings at that time could have raised sufficient money there would never have been a problem in the 20th and 21st centuries with either Israel or the Muslim fanatics.

The picture? I don't get it.

At the period mentioned - the only way to raise quick money for the Kings of England, France, Germany, Spain etc. was to borrow from the same "bloody" Jews!

Sorry to piss on your parade.

[Seastallion]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

Hardly , but plenty of Iranians, Turks and alike who are now "German"

Well, European antisemitism (and yes equating modern Israel to Nazi Germany is definitely an expression of antisemitism) is coming from an odd mix of fascists, leftists, and politicized Islamic ideology as well. BTW, I have read that Israeli cultural stuff is quite trendy in Berlin, especially Israeli food ... but Germans usually don't like garlic (so sad).

It's definitely not an expression of anti-semitism, it's an expression of observation and of irony.

[Seastallion]

This speech, perhaps somewhat indirectly, perhaps not, addresses how wrong it is to equate Nazi Germany to modern Israel:

Wow! That chaps epitomises the illogical, drama queen rantings of the chip-on-the-shoulder faux-victim mentality of some (Note "some", emphasised, not "all") Israelis and their supporters.

The unfurling of the Palestinian flag is a political statement, and how he spins it into "proving" anti-semitism is both illogical and irrational.

The Germans polled in the OP are probably less inclined to speak completely frankly due to some sort of sins of our fathers guilt syndrome, and thus I'd hazard that the results are actually conservative.

[daveAustin]

Germans have skeptical view of Israel

I'm not surprised. If my country, in whatever form, had tried to completely annihilate a given people, I would be wary that they might come back and bite me on the arse one day, especially one equipped with nukes.

[ezzra]

'Some 35 percent of Germans equate Israeli policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi policies toward the Jews, an increase from 30 percent in 2007, when the foundation conducted a similar study.'

Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black ( or Nazi in this case) Germany and the German people

should be the last one in the whole world to venture any opinion what so ever as to what the Israelis

are to the Palestinians and in any other matter what so ever, Germany should stay quiet for generations

to come, and maybe, jus maybe, the sins of their forefathers will be forgotten, not forgiven... ever...

[Choctastic]

It's definitely not an expression of anti-semitism, it's an expression of observation and of irony.

Why pick on Germany. Most of the world feels the same way.

They are all wrong of course. There's no similarity between Nazi and Israel behaviour at all....

[Ulysses G.]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

I wonder how many Germans are skeptical about the potential terrorist statelet called the Palestinian unity government. It is by its own admission apartheid, and genocidal according to the mission statement of its constituent Hamas. It sucks up aid money like a sponge turning into a stream of terrorist attacks. Funnily enough the press can still hold the Palestinian sob story together, but it comes apart when Germans are surveyed about immigration when 70% of them think there is too much Muslim immigration. So German concern seems to be of the nimby variety (nimby being not in my back yard).

[Jay Sata]

It's definitely not an expression of anti-semitism, it's an expression of observation and of irony.

Why pick on Germany. Most of the world feels the same way.

They are all wrong of course. There's no similarity between Nazi and Israel behaviour at all....

The whole world knows that Gaza is a prison.

The holocaust is trotted out with regularity but let us not forget one thing.

The victims of the Nazis included non Jewish mentally and physically disabled,gypsies,gays and lesbians and others. These victims are never mentioned in pro Israeli propaganda.

[Ulysses G.]

You are proving that you don't know very much. The physically disabled, gypsies and gay victims are mentioned all the time, but there were so many more Jews - targeted only because of their religion - that they get more attention.

A "prison" with luxury hotels, shopping malls and an obesity problem does not sound that bad to me. If Hamas stopped shooting missiles at Israel and other terrorist activities, there might be no restrictions at all. The Palestinians are responsible for their own conditions.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Somtamnication]

I am glad that at least ONE country is waking up to the Israeli issues. Kudos to the Germans. Another 212 other countries to go.

If I lived in a refugee camp for 60 odd years, I too would be angry. If someone built a house in MY garden, I too would be angry. The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

[Ulysses G.]

The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

The Israelis have proved themselves a lot better at fighting and winning and creating a successful country than the Palestinians or their Arab brothers. Fighting them seems to be a losing proposition.

[Jay Sata]

I am glad that at least ONE country is waking up to the Israeli issues. Kudos to the Germans. Another 212 other countries to go.

If I lived in a refugee camp for 60 odd years, I too would be angry. If someone built a house in MY garden, I too would be angry. The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

Sadly the right wing extremists who run Israel cannot understand those simple facts.

Just like UG and a couple,of others they use the Ostrich technique and keep their head where the sun does not shine.

We all know where world opinion lies hence 170 plus countries recognising Palestine.