Help-Visa nightmare

[lioness]

I have been in Thailand for many years and am particular to "do the right thing" when it comes to visa.

However I finished working last April, so I visited my local immigration office to see about going onto a retirement visa. I was told this was simple, leave the country and come back in on a 15 day tourist visa, and then go back to the same immigration office and take all the paperwork, bank statement and supporting documents with me for a retirement visa. This I did and was duly given a visa stamped RETIREMENT.and I paid the required fee. I never checked the dates on the stamp, an error on my part.

Anyhow they has stapled a slip into the passport which asked me to go back in on the 30th July, the issue date of the visa was the 14th May, I couldn;t work this out, so in early July I returned to the office to ask them was this correct. The woman said no, you don't have to worry about that and she removed the slip and binned it. just come back when the the visa expires. remember that I didn't check the dates and in my mind it would have been May 2015.

All my friends on the same visa and reporting every 90 days, and I am worried, so come September I again attend the immigration, pass over the passport and ask them do I need to report, same reply, no, come back when your visa is up. I have witnesses to both these visits.

Today, I actually attend the immigration with friends who are renewing their retirement for another year, I decide to have another go as to my not needing to report like my friends. The woman looks at the passport and I am told I do not have a current visa, I go through the scenario several times, but you know the story you can never get anything across that they don't want to hear. When I said that the first visit the woman had torn the slip out and thrown it away, I was told that was impossible and in fact they went to great lengths to tell me that I had applied for and been given a 90 day Non O and I should have gone back in and applied for the retirement visa.

By this stage the supervisor was out and so was the head woman who followed me outside.

I am now 8 months overstay. They told me to do a border run to Myanmar tomorrow, (my closest point) come back in on a 15 day tourist visa and then go to the immigration in Bangkok get a 90 day Non O and 60 days into that go and see them with all the necessary paperwork for a RETIREMENT visa.

Not only that they tell me anything over a 90 day overstay can lead to being banned from Thailand for 12 months, but this won't happen to me tomorrow as they are just introducing it and not enforcing it at present.

The other thing I can't understand with this new request is why do I have to travel to Bangkok to get a 90 day Non O when they are saying thats what they gave me in Kanchanaburi last year.

As you can appreciate I am quite worried aout going to Myanmar tomorrow, as I am not at all sure they will let me back in.

I firmly believe they put the incorrect dates in the passport, and if as they say I had only originally applied for a 90 day Non O why did I have to present the bank statement and financials adding up to the 800,000 requirement.

Has anyone any sensible thoughts?

[nzexpat]

Scan and post the "Visa" stamped "Retirement"

Once we understand what is actually in the passport it will be easier to offer advise.

[FritsSikkink]

Check your visa experation date next time.

[moe666]

How many people get into trouble because they never check there passport after a stamp is put into it that turns out to be wrong.

[beechguy]

Scan and post the "Visa" stamped "Retirement"

Once we understand what is actually in the passport it will be easier to offer advise.

It's already obvious, they were changing the visa status, from a Visa Exempt, to a Non-Immigrant "O" so that a Retirement Extension could be issued later. The OP dropped the ball by not paying attention to the process. Now, many Immigration offices won't do it, so they send the applicants to get the visa status changed, some refer to it as a conversion, in Bangkok. The OP was required to present the financial documents upon applying for the "O" Visa, because it is only issued as part of the extension process.

As not unusual, the OP is trying to blame immigration, when it is OP that didn't know what they were doing. That's unfortunate, but these things get explained on a daily basis on here.

Good luck to the OP, hopefully not a problem this next time.

[lioness]

nzexpat

scanned and attached. Many thanks

Copy of Visa stamp.doc

[lioness]

Actually Mr Beechguy I am not trying to blame anybody, just stating the facts.

[beechguy]

Actually Mr Beechguy I am not trying to blame anybody, just stating the facts.

The fact is, you made a mistake, deal with it. As noted by another poster, look at the stamps in your passport, you'll have fewer problems.

[lioness]

Actually Mr Beechguy I am not trying to blame anybody, just stating the facts.

The fact is, you made a mistake, deal with it. As noted by another poster, look at the stamps in your passport, you'll have fewer problems.

Yes, I am well aware of that, I did say in my origianal post that I had not looked at the stamp. It's a shame about Thai visa, because you get some really helpful people, but for every sensible reply you get half a dozen smart alecs that have to have the last say and repeat the obvious.

And yes I will deal with it, what I was requesting was other peoples thoughts, sensible replies, I should have known better.

[steve187]

instead of getting a visa exempt entry go to laos and get a non imm 'O' visa and save the trip to bangkok.

You had to show the 800,000 baht as they only issue non imm 'O' visa inside Thailand, as part of a 2 step process, and they need to check you were able to do the retirement extension later. ie. not pulling a fast one for the visa.

[nzexpat]

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nzexpat

scanned and attached. Many thanks

A poor quality picture but it would seem the immigration officer made a mistake with the dates.

BTW

That is not a visa but it is a seemingly miss-stamped extension of stay.

[Jingthing]

Well, you needed then and you need now ... the "two step process" as you are entering Thailand without any O visa.

Step 1: Conversion of entry stamp or tourist visa to 90 day O visa

Step 2: Application for ANNUAL extension of stay based on retirement (usually applied for during the last 30 days of the 90 day stay).

Step 1 is granted based on showing eligibility for the later Step 2 which is a retirement EXTENSION, thus explaining the stamp saying RETIREMENT.

Actually, neither one of those two steps is technically a "retirement visa" but you don't need a retirement visa and a retirement visa is not even available in Thailand.

Sadly yet another case that shows that learning more about precisely what you need and the ability to determine YOURSELF that you actually got what you need prevents nightmares like this story.

Also, a number of local Thai immigration that USED to offer Step 1 (CONVERSION to 90 day O) now no longer offer that service which explains why it was offered before but not now. If your office doesn't offer it, you must do the conversion at Bangkok.

ANOTHER excellent alternative to doing the conversion at Bangkok is to go a Thai embassy/consulate in Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O visa there (my latest info on that says you must show proof of income qualification for that). If doing that, that's your Step 1 and you do the annual retirement extension back at your LOCAL immigration office.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[lioness]

Well, you needed then and you need now ... the "two step process" as you are entering Thailand without any O visa.

Step 1: Conversion of entry stamp or tourist visa to 90 day O visa

Step 2: Application for ANNUAL extension of stay based on retirement (usually applied for during the last 30 days of the 90 day stay).

Step 1 is granted based on showing eligibility for the later Step 2 which is a retirement EXTENSION, thus explaining the stamp saying RETIREMENT.

Actually, neither one of those two steps is technically a "retirement visa" but you don't need a retirement visa and a retirement visa is not even available in Thailand.

Sadly yet another case that shows that learning more about precisely what you need and the ability to determine YOURSELF that you actually got what you need prevents nightmares like this story.

Also, a number of local Thai immigration that USED to offer Step 1 (CONVERSION to 90 day O) now no longer offer that service which explains why it was offered before but not now. If your office doesn't offer it, you must do the conversion at Bangkok.

ANOTHER excellent alternative to doing the conversion at Bangkok is to go a Thai embassy/consulate in Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O visa there (my latest info on that says you must show proof of income qualification for that). If doing that, that's your Step 1 and you do the annual retirement extension back at your LOCAL immigration office.

Many thanks for this, and yes you are quite correct, I shuld have learned more about what I needed, That was the reason I went to the immigration office to find out. What they neglected to tell me was that it was a 2 step process. I will do the Myanmar run today as it's more convienient for me. Then go to Bangkok for the "conversion". Based on what you are saying it seems I ned to take financials with me they never mentioned this at immigration yesterday, but I shall be prepared anyhow, after reading this. Thats assuming they let me back in today... The other thing I don't understand is why was the last Non O visa stamped from the 14th May to 30th July, was this actually a mistake or not?

[ubonjoe]

I suggest you make a trip out of the country to get a single entry non-o visa instead of just doing a border crossing for a visa exempt entry which will only be for 15 days unless you are from a G7 country.

Bangkok is now your only choice if get a visa exempt entry to do a conversion to a non immigrant visa and it will require 2 trips to get it. If you only get a 15 day entry that will not be enough to the conversion in Bangkok unless you apply on the date you enter the country they require a minimum 15 days remaining on entry to do the conversion. You would have to apply for a 30 day extension of your 15 day entry first.

[ubonjoe]

Non O visa stamped from the 14th May to 30th July, was this actually a mistake or not?

Just looked at your entry stamp it is not the visa stamp. They dated the entry for the 2nd of May with a permit to stay date of July 30th which is 90 days. It seems they may of used the entry date you had already when you applied.

Read my previous post.

[beechguy]

Well, you needed then and you need now ... the "two step process" as you are entering Thailand without any O visa.

Step 1: Conversion of entry stamp or tourist visa to 90 day O visa

Step 2: Application for ANNUAL extension of stay based on retirement (usually applied for during the last 30 days of the 90 day stay).

Step 1 is granted based on showing eligibility for the later Step 2 which is a retirement EXTENSION, thus explaining the stamp saying RETIREMENT.

Actually, neither one of those two steps is technically a "retirement visa" but you don't need a retirement visa and a retirement visa is not even available in Thailand.

Sadly yet another case that shows that learning more about precisely what you need and the ability to determine YOURSELF that you actually got what you need prevents nightmares like this story.

Also, a number of local Thai immigration that USED to offer Step 1 (CONVERSION to 90 day O) now no longer offer that service which explains why it was offered before but not now. If your office doesn't offer it, you must do the conversion at Bangkok.

ANOTHER excellent alternative to doing the conversion at Bangkok is to go a Thai embassy/consulate in Laos or Malaysia and apply for a single entry O visa there (my latest info on that says you must show proof of income qualification for that). If doing that, that's your Step 1 and you do the annual retirement extension back at your LOCAL immigration office.

Many thanks for this, and yes you are quite correct, I shuld have learned more about what I needed, That was the reason I went to the immigration office to find out. What they neglected to tell me was that it was a 2 step process. I will do the Myanmar run today as it's more convienient for me. Then go to Bangkok for the "conversion". Based on what you are saying it seems I ned to take financials with me they never mentioned this at immigration yesterday, but I shall be prepared anyhow, after reading this. Thats assuming they let me back in today... The other thing I don't understand is why was the last Non O visa stamped from the 14th May to 30th July, was this actually a mistake or not?

The copy that you posted, indicates it was stamped May 2, 2014 thru July 30, 2014, that is a period of 90 days. That is correct for a single entry Non-Immigrant Visa.

Edited January 29, 2015 by beechguy

[Lite Beer]

As Joe said, You have to go to Bangkok to do the conversion and they will not do it with less that 15 days stay.

It would be much easier for you if you entered with a Non Imm O Visa.

You could then apply for the Retirement Extension at Kanchanaburi.

Don't forget the 20,000 Baht overstay fine.

[Stjohnm]

How many people get into trouble because they never check there passport after a stamp is put into it that turns out to be wrong.

How can people not check, I used to put the date in my calendar with a reminder alert before I left the immigration office when I used to live here, I still do when I come back on extended visits.

[Boycie]

Quote "All my friends on the same visa and reporting every 90 days, and I am worried, so come September I again attend the immigration, pass over the passport and ask them do I need to report, same reply, no, come back when your visa is up."

The immigration officer should have seen that you were on an overstay in September? Sorry that's no help, all in the past now.

Lioness are you married to a Thai national? Not sure exactly what benefits you have being a Lioness, but i believe that they are a lot more beneficial than foreign Males married to Thai ladies. Maybe the more knowledgable members can help out.

[KED]

Thank Buddha for ThaiVisa. I think the big problem is the Thai immigration does not have a clear website to explain their policies and procedures. Also, in smaller immigrations offices in the provinces, I think the officials poor English results in a miscommunication of the process. If it were not for the information given on ThaiVisa - there would be so many more problems for all.

[lioness]

Well it was too late to change my plans this morning, so I have completed the border run to Mynmar and am now back in Thailand on a 15 day tourist. Yes, I paid the 20,000 Baht overstay, I also had to sign a declaration that I was aware that should I overstay again then I would be banned from Thailand for 12 months.

When I first approached them at the border I was told that I couldn't pay the 20,000 Baht there but would have to go to Bangkok, I explained that I had been told by immigration in Kanchanaburi that I could do it there, after over half an hour of phone calls they did accept the overstay payment.

Now I ask myself do I go to Bangkok for the non-O 90 days which I now learn from a poster is 2 trips and a possible extention, or is the option still available for me to do it in Laos, and if I do it in Laos do I still need financials.

You see nothing is straightforward, it's all twists and turns, like yes, you can do this, but... No wonder people end up confused.

[stevenl]

Well it was too late to change my plans this morning, so I have completed the border run to Mynmar and am now back in Thailand on a 15 day tourist. Yes, I paid the 20,000 Baht overstay, I also had to sign a declaration that I was aware that should I overstay again then I would be banned from Thailand for 12 months.

When I first approached them at the border I was told that I couldn't pay the 20,000 Baht there but would have to go to Bangkok, I explained that I had been told by immigration in Kanchanaburi that I could do it there, after over half an hour of phone calls they did accept the overstay payment.

Now I ask myself do I go to Bangkok for the non-O 90 days which I now learn from a poster is 2 trips and a possible extention, or is the option still available for me to do it in Laos, and if I do it in Laos do I still need financials.

You see nothing is straightforward, it's all twists and turns, like yes, you can do this, but... No wonder people end up confused.

Go to Laos with your financials, really seems the easiest option.

[joeyg]

Can't scan it put my retirement TM7 got me these stamps in my passport yesterday with my extension set to expire on Feb 16 2015. the stamps look like this;

Non "O"

IMMIGRATION BUREAU

SUB DIV.1IMM.DIV.1

ADMITTED19 NOV 2014

UNTIL 16 FEB 2015

SIGNED SIGNATURE

SAMUT PRAKAN CHECK POINT

EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO 16 FEB 2016

HOLDER MUST LEAVE THE KINGDOM WITHIN THE

DATE SPECIFIED HEREIN OFFENDERS WILL BE

PROSECUTED

SIGNED SIGNATURE

IMMIGRATION OFFICER

DATE BLANK

RETIREMENT BLURRED 28 JAN 2015

TO KEEP YOUR STAY PERMIT RE-ENTRY PERMIT

MUST ME MADE BEFORE LEAVING THAILAND.

NOTIFICATION OF RESIDENCE MUST BE

MADE EVERY 90 DAYS

Stapled on the page next to these stamps on the small piece of white paper is the

NOTICE

TO NOTIFY IF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

To notify again on 27 APR 2015

I did have one question. The officer told me that there was a 7 day period. I couldn't get it clear because an argument was starting with an English guy that was getting pretty heated with one of the officers who was by the way very cool and polite.

The question is is there a 7 day grace period to come in after the 27 APR 2015 date stamped, or are you supposed to come in 7 days before the stamp expires. Thanks in advance.

[ubonjoe]

You can still go to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o. You will need to show financial proof. A bank book showing 800k baht or more or an income letter,

[steve187]

Glad your all legal again, which crossing did you use and whats the procedure as i am going on Monday.

[ubonjoe]

I did have one question. The officer told me that there was a 7 day period. I couldn't get it clear because an argument was starting with an English guy that was getting pretty heated with one of the officers who was by the way very cool and polite.

The question is is there a 7 day grace period to come in after the 27 APR 2015 date stamped, or are you supposed to come in 7 days before the stamp expires. Thanks in advance.

You can do a 90 day report 15 days before the report date or 7 day after including the report date in the count.

[joeyg]

I did have one question. The officer told me that there was a 7 day period. I couldn't get it clear because an argument was starting with an English guy that was getting pretty heated with one of the officers who was by the way very cool and polite.

The question is is there a 7 day grace period to come in after the 27 APR 2015 date stamped, or are you supposed to come in 7 days before the stamp expires. Thanks in advance.

You can do a 90 day report 15 days before the report date or 7 day after including the report date in the count.

555 Thanks again Joe you are "all over it" man!!!

[NoshowJones]

Thank Buddha for ThaiVisa. I think the big problem is the Thai immigration does not have a clear website to explain their policies and procedures. Also, in smaller immigrations offices in the provinces, I think the officials poor English results in a miscommunication of the process. If it were not for the information given on ThaiVisa - there would be so many more problems for all.

How right your last sentence is, and it is Thailands fault also, for allowing IOs to make up their own rules, some will allow this and some won't. So confusing for a lot of people.

[Jingthing]

Also the specific "rules" change too frequently. Moving target and all that. But the BASIC concept for retirement extensions has remained very stable. You need an O visa to start. Then the second step is the retirement extension(s). Some people choose the option of starting with O-A visas from their home countries and later enter the retirement extension system in Thailand.

[lioness]

Steve

I went to the Kanchanaburi/Myanmar border. once through departure, a car picks you up for the 5 minute drive to the other side, you don't even get out of the car, it took 2 minutes and then we drove back. The whole experience costs 910 Baht, that includes the Mynmar stamps and the car and driver. I had an elderly Canadian guy in the car with me, and when we got back, he just stood in the middle of the road and said "Is that it?" he couldn't work out how it could all be done so quickly.

I did notice an increase in Departures since I last went there so it might be better to get there early. I was there at 7am and apart from wasting about 35 minutes trying to pay the 20,000 overstay it all went quickly.