Patong is dead.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Could this possibly be where some of the doom and gloomers on this thread are finding their

grossly exaggerated figures from??? 

Exactly, 

The condo I own at the moment, I saw it 3 times through 3 different agents, at 3 different prices (probably listed 4-5 times). I bought it for 1.2m and one of the agents had it listed for 1.45.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Of course, if you had any real experience in Thailand you would now that just because a Government office is looking busy, does not mean that any work is getting done.  Efficiency is always displaced in favor creating conditions that help to elicit tea money.

 

Yes, it coudnt possibly be that lots of property is still changing hands. With a good agent you can be in and out in an hour.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

2 hours ago, steelepulse said:

I'll just interject here about the "thousands of listings on property websites".  Fact of the matter is most sites never update anything sold, rented or taken off the market.  

 

 

No that is not correct.  As I already posted earlier, I never review English language website for property because if any thing is already in the hands of a foreigner it is overpriced.

 

The Thai sites that I review are currently being flooded with new property listings.  And whether or not anything is never taken down is a spurious issue as I always sort listings by the Newest criteria.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I also see from the Thai websites that a lot of condo owners are already starting to reduce their prices in developments in Kathu and Phuket town.  A year or so ago they were aiming for >1.5m.  Now I see the same properties relisted for <1.25m.

[eisfeld]

While I agree that the property market in Phuket is a buyers market right now, I also have to agree that the websites of real estate agencies are a questionable indicator. Half of the properties that are listed for years are sold but never removed from the listing and the other half are rehashed properties that never sell but are removed and re-added all the time to make them look fresh. Add to that the total lack of public information about recent property sales, the mentality of refusing to reduce price or even increasing prices when something doesn't sell, the huge amount of new developments everywhere, the horrible build quality in many cases, the non-accountability of many builders, the ignoring of laws regarding zoning, the lack of public planing, ... I think it's enough but my point is that the real estate market in Phuket is thoroughly and properly messed up. FUBAR one might say.

 

But ok this is about Patong and Patong is a tourist attraction because it has the reputation of a party town. The problem here is the change in demographics. Less westeners, more chinese. Noone can dispute that change, even the Thai government can confirm that. Chinese though to a big degree travel in groups, they don't sit in bars and watch football. They don't go clubbing as much. And they tend to get fleeced as much as possible by some businessmen which keep the money out of the Phuket economy. Honestly who can say that it's now a much nicer place than it used to be a few years back? And if you can't say that, then think where it's headed. Everyone races to exploit the place till the last drop of blood is sqeezed from it.

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

No that is not correct.  As I already posted earlier, I never review English language website for property because if any thing is already in the hands of a foreigner it is overpriced.

 

The Thai sites that I review are currently being flooded with new property listings.  And whether or not anything is never taken down is a spurious issue as I always sort listings by the Newest criteria.

My wife sells real estate and puts listings on English sites and on Kaidee. When they expire on Kaidee she puts them on again. They are the same properties listed elsewhere and often relistings not a flood of new listings.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

My wife sells real estate and puts listings on English sites and on Kaidee. When they expire on Kaidee she puts them on again. They are the same properties listed elsewhere and often relistings not a flood of new listings.

No that is not correct.  I have been reviewing these sites for years.  I know if a property is a relist.

 

Fact is, it wasn't hard to keep track because there were so few properties.  That is not the case nowadays however.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bulldozer Dawn

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I should just make it clear that the flood I am talking about is small land parcels and Thai houses.  Not property targeted at foreigners.

[Peterw42]

Just now, Bulldozer Dawn said:

No that is not correct.  I have been reviewing these site for years.  I know if a property is a relist.

Many of the listings on Kaidee etc are Thai people listing agents properties, trying to get a commission for introducing the buyer to the agent. My wife has 3-4 friends that do it, it brings in some good leads. They get 1,000 baht for responding to the add on kaidee then passing the buyer over to the agent.

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic, troll posts, flame posts, and petty bickering posts have been removed from this thread.

[simon43]

There are lots of Chinese arriving, but how many of them are going to come back a second time?

 

I would suggest that most of them will not return.  But the reason is not because Phuket is/has 'gone to the dogs'.

 

Although I'm no longer in Phuket, I chatted with many of my Chinese hotel guests last year as to what places they were going to visit in Phuket.  The same checklist was quoted time and time again ==> Patong Beach, Bangla Road at night, a go-go bar, Simon caberet, take photos of the LBs at Soi Dragon, Chalong Temple, visit to Maya Beach etc etc etc.

 

These Chinese were not visiting Phuket because it was a wonderful and beautiful place to visit.  They were all doing a 'been there, photos taken, done that now' philosophy.  

 

And so onto the next tourist attraction.....

 

We've all heard of how groups of Chinese tourists descend en-mass at a tourist location, snap some photos of each other with the famous attraction in the background and then move on.  Well, it seems that's exactly what Chinese tourists like to do ==> collect photos of themselves at famous places, and (nowadays) post these on FB or whatever they use in China.

 

The interest in visiting Thailand was also brought about by a successful Chinese comedy film called 'Lost in Thailand', where several Chinese tourists have a checklist of famous places to visit in Thailand, and check each one off as they visit it.

 

So... IMHO, the Chinese will visit Phuket one time only.  The only good point (if you can call it that) for Phuket business owners is that there are an awful lot of Chinese in China.......

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Of course, if you had any real experience in Thailand you would now that just because a Government office is looking busy, does not mean that any work is getting done.  Efficiency is always displaced in favor creating conditions that help to elicit tea money.

 

Of course if you had any experience at all of the Phuket land office you would know better.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I would suggest that most of them will not return.  But the reason is not because Phuket is/has 'gone to the dogs'.

 

Although I'm no longer in Phuket, I chatted with many of my Chinese hotel guests last year as to what places they were going to visit in Phuket.  The same checklist was quoted time and time again ==> Patong Beach, Bangla Road at night, a go-go bar, Simon caberet, take photos of the LBs at Soi Dragon, Chalong Temple, visit to Maya Beach etc etc etc.

 

These Chinese were not visiting Phuket because it was a wonderful and beautiful place to visit.  They were all doing a 'been there, photos taken, done that now' philosophy.  

 

And so onto the next tourist attraction.....

 

We've all heard of how groups of Chinese tourists descend en-mass at a tourist location, snap some photos of each other with the famous attraction in the background and then move on.  Well, it seems that's exactly what Chinese tourists like to do ==> collect photos of themselves at famous places, and (nowadays) post these on FB or whatever they use in China.

 

The interest in visiting Thailand was also brought about by a successful Chinese comedy film called 'Lost in Thailand', where several Chinese tourists have a checklist of famous places to visit in Thailand, and check each one off as they visit it.

 

So... IMHO, the Chinese will visit Phuket one time only.  The only good point (if you can call it that) for Phuket business owners is that there are an awful lot of Chinese in China.......

They may only come one time but there are 1.3 billion of them. Many places in the world have a steady stream of visitors because its on the bucket list.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

Could this possibly be where some of the doom and gloomers on this thread are finding their

grossly exaggerated figures from??? 

I don't fit into that category as am I a realist and optimist......always have been AND for anyone to even think that an expat and very successful businessman who has lived here for more than 10 yrs and bought and sold property here would even consider basing anything on a real estate agents website, must need their marbles looking at.

 

 

 

[xylophone]

18 minutes ago, simon43 said:

So... IMHO, the Chinese will visit Phuket one time only.  The only good point (if you can call it that) for Phuket business owners is that there are an awful lot of Chinese in China.......

Agree with a lot of what you've said and please allow me to respectfully  amend a sentence............."the only good point (if you can call it that) for a few select/well connected business owners is that................".

 

Anyway I am finding it difficult to keep up as am having to type this from a hospital bed.......so I will stay out of the polarising viewpoints for now. But remind myself that a greater number of posters on this thread agree that Patong is struggling as are many small businesses......oh and some big businesses too (this I know as FACT).

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

It means he contributes to TripAdvisor.

I will never agree with you on most things, but this did make me laugh, very droll. thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

These Chinese were not visiting Phuket because it was a wonderful and beautiful place to visit.  They were all doing a 'been there, photos taken, done that now' philosophy.  

 

And so onto the next tourist attraction.....

 

We've all heard of how groups of Chinese tourists descend en-mass at a tourist location, snap some photos of each other with the famous attraction in the background and then move on.  Well, it seems that's exactly what Chinese tourists like to do ==> collect photos of themselves at famous places, and (nowadays) post these on FB or whatever they use in China.

 

I think this is an important point or rather an accurate summarization of the kind of tourist: the

 

Social Media Tourist

 

A tourist that visits a place once, does not spend a longer period or bigger money in the area and is not interested in the real cultural backgrounds or history. He's just checking off a box on the list to be able to show his "friends" on whatever social media platform they use.

 

This creates a very shallow and streamlined tourism ecosystem with a few big winners.

[Old Croc]

I had a couple of property transfers processed in one day at the Land office.

However, it was because my lawyer knew a guy, and palms were greased. I won't say how much extra it cost, but I considered it well worth it. My lawyer said it could have taken up to a year doing it the right way.

I mentioned this in another thread a while back and copped some flack from a few PC Brits who think I shouldn't be encouraging corruption.

I'm more of a realist regarding these matters here, and it did cost a lot less than stamp duty back in the old country. 

 

[Old Croc]

If tourism volume is the main criteria you really don't need to get any Chinese to come a second time.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

7 hours ago, simon43 said:

The interest in visiting Thailand was also brought about by a successful Chinese comedy film called 'Lost in Thailand', where several Chinese tourists have a checklist of famous places to visit in Thailand, and check each one off as they visit it.

Hmmm...a chinese version of "The Beach" then...

[chrisandsu]

The fear and paranoia is out ???

[xylophone]

7 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

The fear and paranoia is out ???

Nothing fearful or paranoid in knowing what is going on in the town in which one has lived in for over 10 yrs and stating it..........in fact it won't bother many of the expats who live here one iota, apart from having to put up with rude and ignorant Chinese.

 

I just feel sorry for many friends who have businesses here and who are now struggling to survive. 

[schlog]

22 hours ago, xylophone said:

Agree with a lot of what you've said and please allow me to respectfully  amend a sentence............."the only good point (if you can call it that) for a few select/well connected business owners is that................".

 

Anyway I am finding it difficult to keep up as am having to type this from a hospital bed.......so I will stay out of the polarising viewpoints for now. But remind myself that a greater number of posters on this thread agree that Patong is struggling as are many small businesses......oh and some big businesses too (this I know as FACT).

Get well soon.

 

I'm absolutly with you about your business estimation. Personally i know only 1 business in Patong which runs this year better then before.

[phuketjock]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Nothing fearful or paranoid in knowing what is going on in the town in which one has lived in for over 10 yrs and stating it..........in fact it won't bother many of the expats who live here one iota, apart from having to put up with rude and ignorant Chinese.

 

I just feel sorry for many friends who have businesses here and who are now struggling to survive. 

I am sorry xylo if you have so many friends that got it wrong and are struggling because of it.

There are many in Patong who did there homework and have got it right albiet they are not

making a fortune but they are far from struggling.

Things change and if you are not prepared to meet these changes then maybe they shouldn't

have gone into their venture so unprepared. Constantly bleating on about it is not going to make

it any better is it?

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by phuketjock
correction

[simon43]

Of course, Chinese and many other nations in Asia are hardly the sort to relax on a Phuket beach and sunbathe, (LoL, brown skin allergy etc).

 

So why would an Asian tourist want to return to Phuket for a second holiday?  What is there on offer that would tempt a second visit?

[phuketjock]

6 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Of course, Chinese and many other nations in Asia are hardly the sort to relax on a Phuket beach and sunbathe, (LoL, brown skin allergy etc).

 

So why would an Asian tourist want to return to Phuket for a second holiday?  What is there on offer that would tempt a second visit?

Many Malaysians and Singaporeans do Simon and Indians and Bangladeshis too, Asia is a big place.

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

So why would an Asian tourist want to return to Phuket for a second holiday?  What is there on offer that would tempt a second visit?

Cheap dried seaweed?

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, phuketjock said:

I am sorry xylo if you have so many friends that got it wrong and are struggling because of it.

There are many in Patong who did there homework and have got it right albiet they are not

making a fortune but they are far from struggling.

Things change and if you are not prepared to meet these changes then maybe they shouldn't

have gone into their venture so unprepared. Constantly bleating on about it is not going to make

it any better is it?

 

Well when the biggest supermarket and food and beverage chain here are feeling the pinch, then add in four restaurateurs I know (plus those that have closed) and guest houses/small hotels NOT to mention 10 bar owners, then the spectrum is pretty well covered.

 

Easy to smugly suggest that they didn't do their homework or they should be prepared to meet the changes, but that is not the case. Some changes just cannot be catered for easily and when you own a restaurant or a small hotel perhaps you would advise them how they can turn a profit by selling trinkets or the like?

 

Anyway you make too many assumptions in your post which renders it just about useless.

Edited May 26, 2017 by xylophone

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, schlog said:

Get well soon.

 

I'm absolutly with you about your business estimation. Personally i know only 1 business in Patong which runs this year better then before.

Thank you for your kind wishes schlog.

[simon43]

Phuketjock said:

 

Many Malaysians and Singaporeans do Simon and Indians and Bangladeshis too, Asia is a big place.

 

With respect, you didn't answer my questions:

 

"So why would an Asian tourist want to return to Phuket for a second holiday?  What is there on offer that would tempt a second visit?"