Patong is dead.

[DrDave]

13 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

That's going to be a hard sell in Bangkok, either now, under the Army control, or to any future Government.  We are talking about big amount of capital expenditure by Government to turn Phuket around, after years of neglect. 

 

As you said, "the majority of Thai's living in Phuket have no voice in Government" so why would Bangkok release billions of baht to upgrade Phuket's infrastructure?  It's not like they will lose many votes here if they didn't.  That's why Mr. T looked after Issan, for the cheap and easy votes. 

 

As for the private sector, how are they going to recoup their capital investment, if not for higher rents, which are passed on to the customers (tourists) which would then make Phuket even more uncompetitive than it already is in the South East Asia tourism market.   

 

Phuket is an economical "perfect storm."  This is why I predicted "The Phuket Financial Crisis."  Without positive change here, it's not a matter of if, just when. 

 

 

 

 

"Why would Bangkok release billions of baht to upgrade Phuket's infrastructure?"  Lobbying, influence peddling and backhanders, just like anywhere else in the world.

 

As for how the private sector would recoup their investment, there are two ways of looking at this. 

(1) Don't assume that after a major re-development the current businesses leasing buildings/land would be the same as those in place today. Different business landscape -> different revenue.

(2) Land owners will be faced with depreciating value and declining performance of their assets (land). Do they just let it depreciate down to nothing, or do they inject some capital to slow, halt or reverse the depreciation, and write it off as a cost of doing business. As a simple example, suppose you own an old taxi. Over the years, it's fallen out of repair both mechanically and aesthetically - so much that people find your taxi undesirable and fares have dropped dramatically. What do you do? Do you just continue to allow the taxi to deteriorate and then abandon it when it no longer generates fares, or do you invest some money to repair it and make it attractive so that it continues to generate fares?

[madmitch]

Why are posters stating that the Government is not releasing money to Phuket? They've funded four underpasses in the past few years and are probably funding R&D for the light rail project and possibly the studies into a Patong tunnel and the proposed new airport highway.

 

And this Government funding makes local politicians very happy to be in Phuket.

[simon43]

Quote

 

 Do you just continue to allow the taxi to deteriorate and then abandon it when it no longer generates fares, or do you invest some money to repair it and make it attractive so that it continues to generate fares?
 

 

 

Its a reasonable analogy, but ...

 

Although my guesthouse was not in Patong, the same environment existed.

 

I found myself re-investing my business profits to continually upgrade and improve my facilities, so that I could successfully compete with all the other new guesthouses in the area - we were all chasing a dwindling pool of more-demanding and cost-conscious guests.

 

I was re-investing all my profits and not any saving money in the bank.  Too many hotels chasing too few customers.  That equation is not sustainable.

 

Sometimes the best option is to ditch the taxi and seek new pastures - which is what I did.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by simon43

[NamKangMan]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

"Why would Bangkok release billions of baht to upgrade Phuket's infrastructure?"  Lobbying, influence peddling and backhanders, just like anywhere else in the world.

 

As for how the private sector would recoup their investment, there are two ways of looking at this. 

(1) Don't assume that after a major re-development the current businesses leasing buildings/land would be the same as those in place today. Different business landscape -> different revenue.

(2) Land owners will be faced with depreciating value and declining performance of their assets (land). Do they just let it depreciate down to nothing, or do they inject some capital to slow, halt or reverse the depreciation, and write it off as a cost of doing business. As a simple example, suppose you own an old taxi. Over the years, it's fallen out of repair both mechanically and aesthetically - so much that people find your taxi undesirable and fares have dropped dramatically. What do you do? Do you just continue to allow the taxi to deteriorate and then abandon it when it no longer generates fares, or do you invest some money to repair it and make it attractive so that it continues to generate fares?

 

 

 "Lobbying, influence peddling and backhanders, just like anywhere else in the world." - all of these take money away from what the money was supposed to be used for, infrastructure.

 

Isn't that why Phuket is in the trouble it's in now, skimming????  Aren't you just talking about more of the same for Phuket?

 

"Different business landscape -> different revenue." - name three "different businesses" that could compete, on a cost basis, with other parts of Thailand, and then South East Asia.

 

"do they inject some capital to slow, halt or reverse the depreciation, and write it off as a cost of doing business." - hardly Thai Business 101.  Have you ever heard of a Thai "writing off" ANY money????

 

"As a simple example, suppose you own an old taxi." - a very poor example for Phuket because land transport here, particularly taxis, is extremely lucrative, by Thai standards.  However, yes, of course, I agree with the idea you a trying to convey. 

 

That said, you are comparing a $25,000 vehicle versus a possible $2,500,000 redevelopment of land / a building.  As mentioned previously, using $2,500,000 as an example, that's is a lot for an owner to spend on redevelopment, whilst not one baht has been spend on infrastructure that surrounds his redevelopment.  This is Phuket's problem, the individual businesses are fine, it's all the BS surrounding them that has repelled the western tourist market.

 

In this case, the owner could have made a truly great building, with state of the art facilities, but why would tourists put up with all the crumbling infrastructure here, just to be able to get to his business?  

 

His redevelopment would be like an oasis among the sewer smell, tuk-tuks, filthy beach water, flooding, water cuts, power failures, rubbish and noise pollution, rising crime, unfriendly locals, scams, extortion etc etc.  

 

The public sector needs to get serious about turning Phuket around, so the tourists with money will return.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Why are posters stating that the Government is not releasing money to Phuket? They've funded four underpasses in the past few years and are probably funding R&D for the light rail project and possibly the studies into a Patong tunnel and the proposed new airport highway.

 

And this Government funding makes local politicians very happy to be in Phuket.

 

True, but isn't prevention better than the cure?

 

Phuket only has its terrible traffic problem because there is no public transport here. 

[NamKangMan]

15 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

Its a reasonable analogy, but ...

 

Although my guesthouse was not in Patong, the same environment existed.

 

I found myself re-investing my business profits to continually upgrade and improve my facilities, so that I could successfully compete with all the other new guesthouses in the area - we were all chasing a dwindling pool of more-demanding and cost-conscious guests.

 

I was re-investing all my profits and not any saving money in the bank.  Too many hotels chasing too few customers.  That equation is not sustainable.

 

Sometimes the best option is to ditch the taxi and seek new pastures - which is what I did.

 

 

 

 

I think you will find many hotels / establishments are now relying on past profits, to lower room prices, in order to attract ANY customer they can, just to keep the doors open, in the home things will change here in the future. 

 

This devalues the Phuket brand, and is hardly sustainable, as it creates a race to the bottom.  Hence, we are seeing many closures here now by those who have decided to walk away.

[xylophone]

42 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

Phuket only has its terrible traffic problem because there is no public transport here.

 

Plus the fact that the one-way system seems to be designed to line the pockets of the taxi and tuk tuk mafia.

[GiantFan]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

Not sure where you mean GF, but there are four bars near the stage which have been empty for a few months now.........a sign of the times as many have said here.

Bar at front right was packed.  These 2 bars with shutters down were just back from the front bar.  Front left bar had a few people watching the band, but didn't appear to be open.  Drinks provided by other bars.  

[DrDave]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

 "Lobbying, influence peddling and backhanders, just like anywhere else in the world." - all of these take money away from what the money was supposed to be used for, infrastructure.

 

Isn't that why Phuket is in the trouble it's in now, skimming????  Aren't you just talking about more of the same for Phuket?

 

"Different business landscape -> different revenue." - name three "different businesses" that could compete, on a cost basis, with other parts of Thailand, and then South East Asia.

 

"do they inject some capital to slow, halt or reverse the depreciation, and write it off as a cost of doing business." - hardly Thai Business 101.  Have you ever heard of a Thai "writing off" ANY money????

 

"As a simple example, suppose you own an old taxi." - a very poor example for Phuket because land transport here, particularly taxis, is extremely lucrative, by Thai standards.  However, yes, of course, I agree with the idea you a trying to convey. 

 

That said, you are comparing a $25,000 vehicle versus a possible $2,500,000 redevelopment of land / a building.  As mentioned previously, using $2,500,000 as an example, that's is a lot for an owner to spend on redevelopment, whilst not one baht has been spend on infrastructure that surrounds his redevelopment.  This is Phuket's problem, the individual businesses are fine, it's all the BS surrounding them that has repelled the western tourist market.

 

In this case, the owner could have made a truly great building, with state of the art facilities, but why would tourists put up with all the crumbling infrastructure here, just to be able to get to his business?  

 

His redevelopment would be like an oasis among the sewer smell, tuk-tuks, filthy beach water, flooding, water cuts, power failures, rubbish and noise pollution, rising crime, unfriendly locals, scams, extortion etc etc.  

 

The public sector needs to get serious about turning Phuket around, so the tourists with money will return.

 

No - the money doesn't necessarily have to be siphoned from Phuket infrastructure projects. It could be diverted from another province, and other projects elsewhere in Thailand. I don't think you understood my meaning of "lobbying, influence peddling, and backhanders". Basically, its greasing the palms of those who make capital appropriation decisions at the national level. It could be in the form of payoffs, promised future partnerships, profit sharing, or the like. It's illegal, but happens everywhere. 

 

I'm not talking about a measly 2.5 million baht re-development here. I'm talking about families who own hundreds of millions of baht worth of land, for which the ability to perform (generate revenue) is dwindling. When you have hundreds of millions in assets which will most likely become non-performing, it makes sense to line the pockets of the boys in Bangkok with a few million in order to protect your your assets.

 

These people are not stupid. If they see a serious threat to their family wealth, you can be sure that they'll address it. This includes the tuk tuk and taxi mafia, and infrastructure for ALL of Patong. We just haven't reached the point yet where these people feel they are seriously threatened. When the day comes that it's clear to them that the transport issues are costing them significant money, they'll see to it that transport in Patong is re-engineered. Same goes for sewer, garbage and other issues.  As I previously stated, don't underestimate the ability of these people to make things happen. 

 

You need to clean the slate in your mind of all of Patong's problems and think about the long-term opportunities for  a re-development of the whole town, starting from scratch. Of course it's not going to happen overnight, and it won't be initiated by the public sector (other than a few little projects here and there to make it appear that they're doing something).

[KarenBravo]

Ah yes, the powerful Phuket families.....

The same families that were given the mining rights to thousands of rai of Phuket land and when this expired, just kept the land for themselves.

The same families that have doled out Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi (plus others) dealerships amongst themselves, plus the distribution rights for well known consumer products.

 

Under-estimate their power? They were responsible for getting any officials transferred that didn't like the status quo (remember the governor that only lasted three months?).

I doubt very much whether these people will stop making money due to a collapse of the Patong tourist trade.

[madmitch]

The Anuphas family have at least improved Phuket's infrastructure by funding new roads. Of course the priority was to increase the rental value of their land, and with the Chinese orientated latex and gem stores they've certainly done that, but in doing so they have helped traffic, particularly during construction of the Central Underpass,, though I'd guess that this philanthropy was a mere by-product of their main goal.

[KarenBravo]

The super-rich in Asia don't see philanthropy as a Noblesse Oblige as it is seen in the West.

First and only duty is to Family and there continual enrichment.

[losername]

On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2015 at 5:34 PM, billythehat said:

Brits?...I’m not skint and neither are many of the quality Brit tourists I know that visit Lalaland. No Sir, I think there are many and varied reasons why folk are not going there

You make some obvious points.  There will always be someone who thrives in hard times, recessions, depressions, wars etc.  There will also be "varied reasons" why people decide not to visit a specific place.  All obvious.

 

But do you seriously suggest that a fall in the value of Sterling of 24% against the Baht between Mid 2015 and now has no impact on the average spending of the average British tourist or expatriate?  Such spending may, of course, include whether to come here or not and whether to go bowling or not.

Edited January 15, 2017 by losername
Missed word "British"

[billythehat]

5 hours ago, losername said:

You make some obvious points.  There will always be someone who thrives in hard times, recessions, depressions, wars etc.  There will also be "varied reasons" why people decide not to visit a specific place.  All obvious.

 

But do you seriously suggest that a fall in the value of Sterling of 24% against the Baht between Mid 2015 and now has no impact on the average spending of the average British tourist or expatriate?  Such spending may, of course, include whether to come here or not and whether to go bowling or not.

…yawn…nice try, Sir, although you do appear to be confused about the timeline of my posting.

 

The bit about going to Thailand for bowling was quite amusing.

 

I’m still not skint btw.

[London Lowf]

I’ve been lurking for a while, but I’ve now joined up to give a tourist’s perspective….

 

Patong will certainly be a little deader next year because I will not be returning!

 

I’ve spent the last three Xmas/New Year’s staying on Nanai and invariably ended up on Bangla every evening as I loved the buzz of that place. However, this year I noticed that it was very quiet (in terms of punters) compared to previously – in particular, the bars in Tiger #2 now only go back two rows deep! Last year I spent many hours enjoying the skills and athleticism of the “real” pole dancers, but this year I was only tempted in there once as I could see from walking past that they were rarely bothering to climb up and exert themselves.

 

I don’t know why, but the Tao music bar was always noticeably quiet. In fact, one evening (admittedly a generally quiet one) they had absolutely zero customers as I walked past at about 10:30. It’s not my kind of place, but it's in a prime position and the other ones (such as New York just a few yards along) seem to do much better.

 

My favourite hassle-free Aussie Bar (the right-hand half) was pretty much deserted most evenings and so I invariably got a good seat at the front for people-watching, but even there the girls expected me to always buy them (including the bar staff!) a round after I had one evening of unfettered generosity. In fairness, they did comp me a couple of beers in return, but a bar bills of over B1,000 for two Singhas is getting out of hand. It started out as the odd Fanta, but they got greedy and killed the golden goose because I subsequently stopped going there.

 

Every other bar on Bangla I expect to be hustled, particularly as a single guy, and they don’t disappoint! But it doesn’t stop there – you buy your server a drink and her (under-employed) work mates all come swarming around like bees around honey expecting the same. After a while it all becomes very tedious, and this year I often abandoned Bangla and went along Rat-U-Thit to the relative calm of Bar One, or back up to Nanai.

 

I felt that there was a definite air of desperation in Bangla, and the touting and scrabbling over the few “spending” tourists is doing the businesses there no favours at all. It has always been a minor ordeal walking down the side Sois, but this year the girls very forcefully grabbed me as I walked past and it was an effort to shake them off. If I was looking for company then I gave up on the bars without even stopping, and simply went searching for a street-walker down near beach road! Loads of them around this year and cheaper, and far less hassle.

 

I did notice that there are many more uninspiring new bars off Sansabai in the cut-through towards JungCeylon, but how they survive is mystery to me.

 

Things didn’t necessarily get much better in Nanai – I had my favourite bars (notably P.Bar and Mouse Hole) where I always bought the girls drinks at bar prices, but I made the mistake of doing the same in Baloo’s Bar whilst sheltering from a thunder storm – B200 ladydrinks on Nanai? Do me a favour!

 

During the day, every day, I am a beach bum on holiday but apart from my first two days of acclimatisation, I never once went to Patong beach during the day – even with the “clean-up” (it was very odd to walk down there one evening and see all the sand beds flattened) the noise and touts are a pain. On one occasion, I went over to the jet ski guys and told them to turn their f***ing music down – which they did, for about five minutes! Yes, I’m a brave (or foolish) soul!

 

Added to that, the water is clearly dirty, and crossing beach road is one the most dangerous aspects of a holiday in Patong. It’s been the same for at least three years and is a disgrace. What would it cost to sort that out?

 

Towards the end of my holiday I rode around the back streets of Kamala to get a feel for the place. I did the same in the evening, and went to three different bars for a drink – despite there being plenty of girls around, each one was absolutely hassle-free and so I have already started looking for accommodation for next time. In addition, it is twenty minutes closer to my favourite beaches at Nai Thon and Nai Yang.

 

I might venture back over the hill to Bangla once or twice if things are too quiet in Kamala (or if I need to see my lovely dentist again!), but basically, I’m finished with Patong.

 

PS: And what was with the weather? No-one to blame of course, but if this had been my first trip to Phuket then I certainly would not have returned!

Edited January 15, 2017 by London Lowf
To make it better!

[madmitch]

5 hours ago, London Lowf said:

I’ve been lurking for a while, but I’ve now joined up to give a tourist’s perspective….

 

Patong will certainly be a little deader next year because I will not be returning!

 

I’ve spent the last three Xmas/New Year’s staying on Nanai and invariably ended up on Bangla every evening as I loved the buzz of that place. However, this year I noticed that it was very quiet (in terms of punters) compared to previously – in particular, the bars in Tiger #2 now only go back two rows deep! Last year I spent many hours enjoying the skills and athleticism of the “real” pole dancers, but this year I was only tempted in there once as I could see from walking past that they were rarely bothering to climb up and exert themselves.

 

I don’t know why, but the Tao music bar was always noticeably quiet. In fact, one evening (admittedly a generally quiet one) they had absolutely zero customers as I walked past at about 10:30. It’s not my kind of place, but it's in a prime position and the other ones (such as New York just a few yards along) seem to do much better.

 

My favourite hassle-free Aussie Bar (the right-hand half) was pretty much deserted most evenings and so I invariably got a good seat at the front for people-watching, but even there the girls expected me to always buy them (including the bar staff!) a round after I had one evening of unfettered generosity. In fairness, they did comp me a couple of beers in return, but a bar bills of over B1,000 for two Singhas is getting out of hand. It started out as the odd Fanta, but they got greedy and killed the golden goose because I subsequently stopped going there.

 

Every other bar on Bangla I expect to be hustled, particularly as a single guy, and they don’t disappoint! But it doesn’t stop there – you buy your server a drink and her (under-employed) work mates all come swarming around like bees around honey expecting the same. After a while it all becomes very tedious, and this year I often abandoned Bangla and went along Rat-U-Thit to the relative calm of Bar One, or back up to Nanai.

 

I felt that there was a definite air of desperation in Bangla, and the touting and scrabbling over the few “spending” tourists is doing the businesses there no favours at all. It has always been a minor ordeal walking down the side Sois, but this year the girls very forcefully grabbed me as I walked past and it was an effort to shake them off. If I was looking for company then I gave up on the bars without even stopping, and simply went searching for a street-walker down near beach road! Loads of them around this year and cheaper, and far less hassle.

 

I did notice that there are many more uninspiring new bars off Sansabai in the cut-through towards JungCeylon, but how they survive is mystery to me.

 

Things didn’t necessarily get much better in Nanai – I had my favourite bars (notably P.Bar and Mouse Hole) where I always bought the girls drinks at bar prices, but I made the mistake of doing the same in Baloo’s Bar whilst sheltering from a thunder storm – B200 ladydrinks on Nanai? Do me a favour!

 

During the day, every day, I am a beach bum on holiday but apart from my first two days of acclimatisation, I never once went to Patong beach during the day – even with the “clean-up” (it was very odd to walk down there one evening and see all the sand beds flattened) the noise and touts are a pain. On one occasion, I went over to the jet ski guys and told them to turn their f***ing music down – which they did, for about five minutes! Yes, I’m a brave (or foolish) soul!

 

Added to that, the water is clearly dirty, and crossing beach road is one the most dangerous aspects of a holiday in Patong. It’s been the same for at least three years and is a disgrace. What would it cost to sort that out?

 

Towards the end of my holiday I rode around the back streets of Kamala to get a feel for the place. I did the same in the evening, and went to three different bars for a drink – despite there being plenty of girls around, each one was absolutely hassle-free and so I have already started looking for accommodation for next time. In addition, it is twenty minutes closer to my favourite beaches at Nai Thon and Nai Yang.

 

I might venture back over the hill to Bangla once or twice if things are too quiet in Kamala (or if I need to see my lovely dentist again!), but basically, I’m finished with Patong.

 

PS: And what was with the weather? No-one to blame of course, but if this had been my first trip to Phuket then I certainly would not have returned!

Thanks for posting the review. It's good to hear the tourist perspective as we expats often have a rather blinkered view, though in this case your views seem to fit perfectly in this thread.

[losername]

16 hours ago, billythehat said:

…yawn…nice try, Sir, although you do appear to be confused about the timeline of my posting.

 

The bit about going to Thailand for bowling was quite amusing.

 

I’m still not skint btw.

1  I am not confused but I do apologise for not looking at the date of your post.

2  Neither the OP nor I mentioned "going to Thailand for bowling".  Bowling was simply mentioned as an example of low numbers of customers.  Don't make things up.

3  You appear to be obsessed with your personal wealth.  Skint or not, it is not the subject of this thread.  Try to focus.

[billythehat]

6 hours ago, losername said:

1  I am not confused but I do apologise for not looking at the date of your post.

2  Neither the OP nor I mentioned "going to Thailand for bowling".  Bowling was simply mentioned as an example of low numbers of customers.  Don't make things up.

3  You appear to be obsessed with your personal wealth.  Skint or not, it is not the subject of this thread.  Try to focus.

[BernieOnTour]

On 1/14/2017 at 7:37 AM, DrDave said:

 

No - the money doesn't necessarily have to be siphoned from Phuket infrastructure projects. It could be diverted from another province, and other projects elsewhere in Thailand. I don't think you understood my meaning of "lobbying, influence peddling, and backhanders". Basically, its greasing the palms of those who make capital appropriation decisions at the national level. It could be in the form of payoffs, promised future partnerships, profit sharing, or the like. It's illegal, but happens everywhere. 

 

I'm not talking about a measly 2.5 million baht re-development here. I'm talking about families who own hundreds of millions of baht worth of land, for which the ability to perform (generate revenue) is dwindling. When you have hundreds of millions in assets which will most likely become non-performing, it makes sense to line the pockets of the boys in Bangkok with a few million in order to protect your your assets.

 

These people are not stupid. If they see a serious threat to their family wealth, you can be sure that they'll address it. This includes the tuk tuk and taxi mafia, and infrastructure for ALL of Patong. We just haven't reached the point yet where these people feel they are seriously threatened. When the day comes that it's clear to them that the transport issues are costing them significant money, they'll see to it that transport in Patong is re-engineered. Same goes for sewer, garbage and other issues.  As I previously stated, don't underestimate the ability of these people to make things happen. 

 

You need to clean the slate in your mind of all of Patong's problems and think about the long-term opportunities for  a re-development of the whole town, starting from scratch. Of course it's not going to happen overnight, and it won't be initiated by the public sector (other than a few little projects here and there to make it appear that they're doing something).

 

WHY should anyone feel obliged to fund with money "diverted from another province, and other projects elsewhere in Thailand" ????

 

Phuket had for years the highest per capital GDP in Thailand. -Nothing, absolutely nothing, flowing back in other coffers than those from the Phuket "Elite". They created that mess by themselves, so why should the infrastructure projects in other, formerly poorer, provinces suffer to support those on that selfish, muslim-infested Jung-Ceylon  (aka. Pirate Island) ?

 

eg. an example from quite another area than infrastructure:

Even the former BiB-boss, who managed to stay on his post 3-times longer than normally allowed, never had to share anything "institutionally", whereas the Pattaya one has to contribute his share to Banglamung and Krungthep.

 

The former army activities in Phuket (which didn't happen in the same style in Pattaya, Samui, Hua Hin) didn't come from nothing...

 

IMO serves them well, what's happening!

 

[KarenBravo]

All the influential families here are Thai-Chinese.

Muslims make up only 30% of the islands native population.

 

Government money is doled out to each province according to the population of that province.

Last time I heard, Phuket had a registered population of less than 400,000 people.

In actual fact, it is estimated that Phuket has a real population of around a million year round and double that during peak season.

This problem has been recognized and there was a short-lived drive to get Thais from other provinces who live, or work here to register so that Phuket could get a realistic budget for the amount of people actually on the island, but, people were not keen to change their registration from their home towns.

 

Phuket is a big money-spinner for the government and belatedly, this seems to have been recognized. Large infrastructure projects are now in the pipeline. From underpasses to ease traffic congestion to a mooted light railway system, and reservoirs to ease water shortages.

 

As far as I know, no money is diverted from other provinces to benefit Phuket. The system just doesn't work that way.

Edited January 17, 2017 by KarenBravo

[GiantFan]

As long as Phuket is a temporary assignment, hard to get people to change their registered address.  In the old days, it was vote buying and I'm sure it still takes place, albeit maybe on the local or provincial level.  School reg as well.  Grandma isn't going to fork over school fees.

[Old Croc]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:01 PM, GiantFan said:

As long as Phuket is a temporary assignment, hard to get people to change their registered address.  In the old days, it was vote buying and I'm sure it still takes place, albeit maybe on the local or provincial level.  School reg as well.  Grandma isn't going to fork over school fees.

I know of several Issan refugees who registered here to get the cheap rate at the Phuket public hospitals.

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I know of several Issan refugees who registered here to get the cheap rate at the Phuket public hospitals.

 

Yes, I know plenty who register when they don't qualify for the 30 baht scheme and want to enroll kids into Phuket public schools.

[CantSpell]

On 1/6/2017 at 2:14 PM, xylophone said:

 

I agree with your point about the start of the high season, because I've always thought that it really didn't get underway until mid December, however that's about all I can agree with and I base this on friends I have in the bar, nightclub, restaurant small hotel and massage parlour businesses, because they all say that spend is down, in some cases 40% down on last year, which in itself didn't seem to be a fantastic year anyway.

 

 

I have other data than CHFarang but they match what he said...

 

Now, must define what tourists mean for each... "my friends in bars, nightclubs and massage parlor"... Tourism expert for sure... (Sorry for the LOL).

 

The one that thinks tourists will come for 20 years and do the EXACT same thing for 20 years is totally delusional.

Tourists number are up, girls bars are dying..

That is all..

 

Different demography, different tourists, different behaviors.. 

 

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, CantSpell said:

 

I have other data than CHFarang but they match what he said...

 

Now, must define what tourists mean for each... "my friends in bars, nightclubs and massage parlor"... Tourism expert for sure... (Sorry for the LOL).

 

The one that thinks tourists will come for 20 years and do the EXACT same thing for 20 years is totally delusional.

Tourists number are up, girls bars are dying..

That is all..

 

Different demography, different tourists, different behaviors.. 

 

 

Again I can agree to a certain extent as I have posted on many occasions that the demographics have changed and that many of the bars and the like are bound to struggle now.

 

However when you get restaurants (over a dozen of them and perhaps many more), guest houses and hotels struggling to survive, then that paints a different picture and again, the biggest supermarket in Patong is millions of baht down on its takings compared to a year or even two years ago, so that also says something.

 

What is most important through all this is of course the spend and that is DOWN.

 

To anyone who has observed Patong on a daily basis, it would be pretty obvious, despite what other "stats" might have you believe, that tourist numbers are down and when you roll that together with the decrease in spend then irrespective of the different demographics, different tourists and different behaviours, then Patong is struggling.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Well I almost raised enough energy to write another lengthy post here.  But instead, I will just say this.

 

Patong is dead?

 

I don't give a flying ..ck.

 

I made a well planned move out of Phuket about two years ago.  Best thing I ever done.

 

Where I now live there is no traffic, no pollution, beautiful empty beaches, no chinese hordes, at night there is total quiet and darkness (save, on occassion, the soft moaning of my beautiful girl) and in the morning I am awaken by birds, not the sounds of cars.

 

It got to the point where I could no longer deal with the environmental rape and corruption that was playing out around in me in Phuket.

 

Is Patong dead, or not dead?  Does it have a future?  Will it morph into something else?

 

Who cares...not me...that's for sure.

[KarenBravo]

Are you in Chumpon?

Crap beaches and an altogether boring place.........but, if you like it.....

[elgordo38]

On 1/31/2015 at 6:15 PM, pagallim said:

Actual riding time there and back (201 km) was 6.5 hours, at an average of 30.4 km/hour.

Hang in there your doing fine. The 105 year old Frenchman did 14 miles in 1 hour. My hero. 

[madmax2]

As has been previously mentioned different tourists now-a- days, the majority come to see the sights not bars and bar girls, one walk along Bangla road is enough of that scene for most people

Unfortunately for a lot of businesses a lot more tourists are first time travellers and are buying pre paid package tours and there is a lack of independent tourists who select what they want to do and see when they get here i think mainly caused by the current currency exchange rates so restaurants, independent, accommodation suppliers etc are missing out badly if they have not adapted to service the current majority of tourists  

[CantSpell]

 

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

To anyone who has observed Patong on a daily basis, it would be pretty obvious, despite what other "stats" might have you believe, that tourist numbers are down and when you roll that together with the decrease in spend then irrespective of the different demographics, different tourists and different behaviours, then Patong is struggling.

 

21 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

As has been previously mentioned different tourists now-a- days, the majority come to see the sights not bars and bar girls, one walk along Bangla road is enough of that scene for most people

Unfortunately for a lot of businesses a lot more tourists are first time travellers and are buying pre paid package tours and there is a lack of independent tourists who select what they want to do and see when they get here i think mainly caused by the current currency exchange rates so restaurants, independent, accommodation suppliers etc are missing out badly if they have not adapted to service the current majority of tourists  

 

Tourists are not going to the places tourists used to go, we agree.

 

But tourist numbers ARE NOT down..

 

Most big hotels all over Phuket have higher occupancy this month than during same period last year.

 

I do not know what they do as apparently they are not going to Bangla but they sure are on the Island: someone check the beach!!