Patong is dead.

[DrDave]

Needing a room for a few days next week, I did a quick search on Latestays for cheap hotel rooms in Patong, and was shocked at what I saw. There are literally dozens of guesthouses on Rat-U-Thit, Sai Kor and Nanai Roads with rooms going for 300-400 baht/night. Add in VAT and service charges, and they're still well below 500 baht. These aren't old, run-down properties - most seem to be just a few years old, and have probably changed hands multiple times over that period as a result of being unable to turn a profit.

 

A flood of sub-500 baht rooms doesn't seem to be a good sign for the local economy.

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

 

Just thought I would pop back in to let you know that a couple of weeks ago I booked Vietjet flights for a holiday for me and my girl from Bangkok to Hanoi.  The ticket cost was 106 Baht.  No not a typo.... One hundred and Six Baht.  Local brewed beers in Hanoi are 20 baht a bottle.  Looking forward to the trip.

 

I didn't go much on Hanoi.  The south of Vietnam is very different to the north, in my opinion.  A lot like Thailand, I suppose.

 

Do yourself a favor and get to Ha Long Bay out of Hanoi.  You will not regret it.  It really is something.   

Edited April 26, 2017 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

46 minutes ago, DrDave said:

Needing a room for a few days next week, I did a quick search on Latestays for cheap hotel rooms in Patong, and was shocked at what I saw. There are literally dozens of guesthouses on Rat-U-Thit, Sai Kor and Nanai Roads with rooms going for 300-400 baht/night. Add in VAT and service charges, and they're still well below 500 baht. These aren't old, run-down properties - most seem to be just a few years old, and have probably changed hands multiple times over that period as a result of being unable to turn a profit.

 

A flood of sub-500 baht rooms doesn't seem to be a good sign for the local economy.

 

 

So how do you think the over 1000 to 1500 to 2000 baht hotels are going????

[xylophone]

Well we all know that Patong is not dead, but many are in agreement that it is dying or is certainly going down market quite markedly and something I saw today really cemented that view for me......

 

I was sitting in Starbucks talking to a friend and just opposite was a table with a couple of Chinese people sitting there and the guy had his shoes off and was clipping his toenails and picking his feet, ensuring that the clippings and dead skin etc were flying all over the place and they were literally all over the floor and even some on the table and I really couldn't believe it.

 

There in a coffeehouse/cafe was some lowlife Chinese man with no class whatsoever, or indeed any idea that he was doing something which just isn't done in public, let alone in a cafe. So I called the manager over and pointed this out to him and at the same time called him something like a dirty bastard and he looked up and saw me pointing and the manager with a disgusted look on his face and asked what was wrong!

 

Good for the Thai manager because he actually told him that this just was not done, whilst at the same time waving to an employee to come and sweep up the clippings. All of the Thais in that cafe were flabbergasted that this could actually happen.

 

A sure sign that Patong is attracting hi-so, big spending Chinese – – yeah right. Disgusting creatures and just two days ago I had to shout out at the top of my voice to a group of Chinese who thought the place was a screaming parlour because that's exactly how they sounded, that was until I told them to shut up and they actually did, and more importantly moved out of the place.

 

 

[SooKee]

I think the problem with that particular brand of Chinese that seem to flock to Patong is that in many cases they're rural low-rents with zero self awareness. Couple that with the overall national traits of not caring about anything (other materialism) outside of self and, maybe family, and it's a recipe for not particularly pleasant characters.


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[Flying Clog]

What xyplophone and SooKee said... spot on.

 

[chrisandsu]

Trash from every country ends up in Thailand . Patong and Pattaya is a Mecca for it .

[Bulldozer Dawn]

On 4/26/2017 at 10:57 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

I didn't go much on Hanoi.  The south of Vietnam is very different to the north, in my opinion.  A lot like Thailand, I suppose.

 

Do yourself a favor and get to Ha Long Bay out of Hanoi.  You will not regret it.  It really is something.   

Yep probably head out to Ha Long.  I note that it is similar to Phang Nga with it limestone islands....why do you think it is really something.  I also plan to get a soft sleeper train up to Sapa.  I read that May is a good month (nice weather) but not yet too crowded as it is on the front shoulder of high season.  I have had a good look around on agoda and booking.com and there are some very nice rooms available circa 500THB.  I plan on renting a bike in Hanoi, could well end up riding it all the way to the south.  We will see.  Did you rent a bike while you were there...and did you bother getting an international licence.   

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Had to visit specialist doctor at Phuket International last week.  After I was finished I caught up with an ex girlfriend who had a day off.  We were riding into town on separate bikes to have lunch and she pulled in to get some gas at a service station on Chaofa east.  I parked off to the side.  A group of 8 twenty something hiphopslims in muay thai gear (3 with no shirts on) rode in and started hassling her.  One of them grabbed her arm.  I rode up and told them to f88k off.  Had it not been for the Thai gas attendants (one of whom pointed out the CCTV to the lads) I would have no doubt received a kicking.

 

Yes the Chinese are loud, dirty and devoid of social etiquette.  But, as I have already posted previously on this thread, it is the growing presence of hiphopslims in Phuket that adumbrates the island's inevitable demise.

[NamKangMan]

On 06/05/2017 at 0:52 AM, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Yep probably head out to Ha Long.  I note that it is similar to Phang Nga with it limestone islands....why do you think it is really something.  I also plan to get a soft sleeper train up to Sapa.  I read that May is a good month (nice weather) but not yet too crowded as it is on the front shoulder of high season.  I have had a good look around on agoda and booking.com and there are some very nice rooms available circa 500THB.  I plan on renting a bike in Hanoi, could well end up riding it all the way to the south.  We will see.  Did you rent a bike while you were there...and did you bother getting an international licence.   

 

 

"why do you think it is really something" - it's a beautiful place.  It's not just my opinion, it's UNESCO as well.

The ride you are contemplating was made famous by Gear Top, and an industry has now been created around the concept. 

 

 

 

Vietnam doesn't recognize the International Driver's Permit.  They are not part of the treaty.  Take a look at the map in the link.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Driving_Permit

 

You may wish to join a tour group of people doing the same ride.  The bikes are supplied, and you have group leader for local knowledge and advice.  Also, you get to meet adventurous people from all around the world.   Here are a couple from the first page of Google.  There are many, and they offer different length rides starting / ending  from different cities.

 

https://vietnammotorbiketour.asia/

 

http://vietnammotorbiketours.com/

 

I was visa running to Vietnam when they were offering cheap 12 month multiple entry tourist visas.  They no longer offer 12 month tourist visas, but the more expensive 12 month business visas or temporary resident visas.  So, I mainly visa run to Cambodia now, as they have a 12 month multiple entry business visa for $290USD.  Over the time of my several visits to Vietnam, I met some expats, and I will call in to see them again when this current Cambodian visa expires. 

 

There was no need for me to rent a motorbike because there are very cheap metered taxis in all the main tourists areas, and for the quieter areas, most locals will become a motorbike taxi and get you back to a more populated area. 

 

There was no need to buy a motorbike because air routes, trains and buses connect all the main regional tourist cities.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

On 01/05/2017 at 7:53 PM, xylophone said:

Well we all know that Patong is not dead, but many are in agreement that it is dying or is certainly going down market quite markedly and something I saw today really cemented that view for me......

 

I was sitting in Starbucks talking to a friend and just opposite was a table with a couple of Chinese people sitting there and the guy had his shoes off and was clipping his toenails and picking his feet, ensuring that the clippings and dead skin etc were flying all over the place and they were literally all over the floor and even some on the table and I really couldn't believe it.

 

There in a coffeehouse/cafe was some lowlife Chinese man with no class whatsoever, or indeed any idea that he was doing something which just isn't done in public, let alone in a cafe. So I called the manager over and pointed this out to him and at the same time called him something like a dirty bastard and he looked up and saw me pointing and the manager with a disgusted look on his face and asked what was wrong!

 

Good for the Thai manager because he actually told him that this just was not done, whilst at the same time waving to an employee to come and sweep up the clippings. All of the Thais in that cafe were flabbergasted that this could actually happen.

 

A sure sign that Patong is attracting hi-so, big spending Chinese – – yeah right. Disgusting creatures and just two days ago I had to shout out at the top of my voice to a group of Chinese who thought the place was a screaming parlour because that's exactly how they sounded, that was until I told them to shut up and they actually did, and more importantly moved out of the place.

 

 

 

How long before the package holiday Chinese mass tourism starts to repel what is left of the western tourist market????

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

How long before the package holiday Chinese mass tourism starts to repel what is left of the western tourist market????

Well they are certainly conspicuous by their poor dress, bad manners and loudness and I'm sure this must be noticed by others and not just me and once it is recognised that this place has become a magnet for low class tourists along with lowlife and bogans from other countries, the writing is on the wall as they say.

 

It's more than likely that the latest stunt being pulled by the BIB (news of which will surely spread) will put a few people off.......... a young kid with a few very small plastic packets of marijuana (hidden on him) mingles amongst the crowds and surreptitiously slips one of them into the pocket of a tourist or foreigner, then points this person out to the BIB, who then arrest him and obviously find the small packet. This person then has the option of either paying quite a few thousand baht on the spot or risking the threat of being locked up and found guilty of possession which could result in a year in jail or thereabouts.

 

I find this absolutely appalling and although I have read about it/heard about it in other countries I never thought that this would be something that would happen here (this is from an "insider" so obviously I can say no more).

Edited May 7, 2017 by xylophone
speller

[LivinginKata]

42 minutes ago, xylophone said:

<snip>

I find this absolutely appalling and although I have read about it/heard about it in other countries I never thought that this would be something that would happen here (this is from an "insider" so obviously I can say no more).

 

A few years ago my wife warned about petrol attendents placing a small bag inside the petrol flap. Then there is the police stop just down the road. Same sort of idea, Well reported in Thai newspapers. 

[SooKee]

I was at Don Muang the other day for an international flight and the queue for immigration to exit Thailand was massive, easily a few hundred winding up and down the cordoned lanes. I'd guess there were not more than 10 westerners in the queue, not that many Thais either but maybe 90% + Chinese. You notice them easily walking round in Patong (nearly always stood in a group blocking the path or the exit to an escalator when they activate 'dumb' mode and pi55 about trying to decide where to go or stupidly wandering across a busy road pointing out 'the sights' to each other, seemingly expecting the traffic to stop or go round them) but the sight of the sheer numbers at DM was quite staggering!


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[Bulldozer Dawn]

Something perhaps worth mentioning, upon looking at agoda and other sites for potential hotels to stay in in Vietnam, I noticed that a good portion of the online reviews are left by Thai travelers.  It would seem that even the Thais are ditching Thailand as a travel destination.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

22 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

How long before the package holiday Chinese mass tourism starts to repel what is left of the western tourist market????

Chinese mass tourism is ugly, but it is not malevolent.

 

The rise in hiphopslims in Phuket will result in the collapse of the western tourist market.

[sebastion]

Chinese mass tourism is ugly, but it is not malevolent.
 
The rise in hiphopslims in Phuket will result in the collapse of the western tourist market.

I agree with you on the North African French. They are a disgusting bunch.
I had a guest complain about a road rage attempt by these shirtless goons on TMaxs followed the guest back to the hotel for a car park showdown. The guy was mid fifties and 4 mid twenties guys trying to sneak punch him from all sides. One even spat in his face.
They claimed the guy cut them off in the mountains while they were racing.

We got them on cctv and took it to Karon police station to report but they weren't interested in even following it up because of a few punches with no bruises.



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[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Chinese mass tourism is ugly, but it is not malevolent.

 

The rise in hiphopslims in Phuket will result in the collapse of the western tourist market.

 

I only notice these hiphopslims as you call them when I have to go through Patong or in the surrounding vicinity like Kamala. Fortunately the areas bit further away seem to have been mostly spared for now. These folks really annoy many Westeners and Thais. The chinese are annoying because they like to block other people or are too loud in a restaurant etc.

 

The chinese are only annoying in (bigger) groups - those package tourists when they block the way/road, are too loud or just overcroud a place. The french arab etc are already annoying when 2 or 3 are together but they don't come in bigger groups.

 

Two different beasts but they both surely don't add to the quality of tourism for Phuket and especially Patong. And once you reach a certain threshold, it's a downward spiral from there. Some would argue this is already happening.

[eisfeld]

8 minutes ago, sebastion said:

We got them on cctv and took it to Karon police station to report but they weren't interested in even following it up because of a few punches with no bruises.

 

And here we have the #1 core problem of Phuket. The unwillingness/inability to fix problems. Problems arise in any place, it's how you deal with them that makes the difference.

[KarenBravo]

Hiphopslims? Doesn't really work, does it?

Doesn't really roll off the tongue. I have far better derogatory names for them.

[sebastion]

 
And here we have the #1 core problem of Phuket. The unwillingness/inability to fix problems. Problems arise in any place, it's how you deal with them that makes the difference.

Farang v Farang they don't care whatsoever.
When it's Thai v Farang that's when they get involved by helping the Thai extract some sort of compensation out of the farang.
Karon beach strip I have seen many altercations with Thais and farang. The taxis in this area are probably the worst on the island. Outside the markets beside the hotel has a fight at least once a day. I'm not joking.
I warn guests to not go to those markets whatsoever and get a ride over the hill to Patong. It's a haven for rip offs and scumbags. Drug dealers not afraid to offer guests marijuana.

Some local mafia are running that strip. Be aware.

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[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/9/2017 at 11:45 AM, sebastion said:

Farang v Farang they don't care whatsoever.
When it's Thai v Farang that's when they get involved by helping the Thai extract some sort of compensation out of the farang.
Karon beach strip I have seen many altercations with Thais and farang. The taxis in this area are probably the worst on the island. Outside the markets beside the hotel has a fight at least once a day. I'm not joking.
I warn guests to not go to those markets whatsoever and get a ride over the hill to Patong. It's a haven for rip offs and scumbags. Drug dealers not afraid to offer guests marijuana.

Some local mafia are running that strip. Be aware.

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Absolutely nothing about this thread changes my mind about going to Phuket. Used to be great, now it sounds like it's the holiday destination from hell.

[madmax2]

All doom and gloom, Chinese are the main tourist group now and consist mainly of couples and groups of single women, the bars are missing out on trade but other businesses are thriving especially the ones that cater for sight seeing trips etc

Accommodation businesses are suffering because everywhere you drive new ones are opening all the time that cater to long term tourists and expats and normal tourists,everything from one to five stars the market is flooded with them, more tourists now but more people chasing their business, adapt or starve

Bangla Road has always been a must see attraction for most people as its well known from internet posts but is small compared to other similar places in Thailand and other surrounding countries and single male tourists have a much bigger choice of destinations 

I see no reason that Phuket will not keep being a popular tourist destination in the near or long term future   

[Flustered]

On 12/05/2017 at 0:55 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Absolutely nothing about this thread changes my mind about going to Phuket. Used to be great, now it sounds like it's the holiday destination from hell.

Totally agree. many years ago, we were going to build our retirement home on a beautiful, peaceful island. Not too much tourism and hardly any back packing sex and drug freaks.

 

Today, we only go to Phuket to visit our Thai "family" who are more and more depressed every day as Phuket sinks into the cesspit it has become.

 

For us. it's the far north and away from the ex pats and mafia Thais who have ruined a beautiful island.

[Old Croc]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

Totally agree. many years ago, we were going to build our retirement home on a beautiful, peaceful island. Not too much tourism and hardly any back packing sex and drug freaks.

 

Today, we only go to Phuket to visit our Thai "family" who are more and more depressed every day as Phuket sinks into the cesspit it has become.

 

For us. it's the far north and away from the ex pats and mafia Thais who have ruined a beautiful island.

Ah yes, Chiang Rai, the place where all the hard drugs smuggled into Phuket originate.

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=chiang+rai+drugs&ie=&oe=  

Edited May 13, 2017 by Old Croc

[Flustered]

15 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Ah yes, Chiang Rai, the place where all the hard drugs smuggled into Phuket originate.

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=chiang+rai+drugs&ie=&oe=  

Thankfully, Chiang Rai does not seem to appeal to the modern day tourist trash that washes up on Phukets beaches and hotels. You can walk the streets without being bothered by whores or lady boys. The walking street is a proper walking street, not an open air brothel and yes, if you want drugs they are available but not out in the open like Patong. People can live a quiet decent life in Chiang Rai.

 

Still, if you like your beaches used as cess pits for the hotels and shops and if you like the disease ridden "girls" that now roam the island looking for suckers to part with their money in exchange for a trip to the clinic, then that's your life style choice.

 

Just a shame this modern day tourist trash had to ruin one of natures most beautiful islands. Not everyone is  interested in diving and snorkeling in somewhere where thousands of others have been before.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, Flustered said:

Thankfully, Chiang Rai does not seem to appeal to the modern day tourist trash that washes up on Phukets beaches and hotels. You can walk the streets without being bothered by whores or lady boys. The walking street is a proper walking street, not an open air brothel and yes, if you want drugs they are available but not out in the open like Patong. People can live a quiet decent life in Chiang Rai.<snip>

Made it all about Phuket for you :)

 

You can walk the streets without being bothered by whores or lady boys. The walking street is a proper walking street, not an open air brothel and yes, if you want drugs they are available but even in Patong you have to look for that.. People can live a quiet decent life in Phuket.

Edited May 14, 2017 by stevenl

[Old Croc]

7 hours ago, Flustered said:

Thankfully, Chiang Rai does not seem to appeal to the modern day tourist trash that washes up on Phukets beaches and hotels. You can walk the streets without being bothered by whores or lady boys. The walking street is a proper walking street, not an open air brothel and yes, if you want drugs they are available but not out in the open like Patong. People can live a quiet decent life in Chiang Rai.

 

Still, if you like your beaches used as cess pits for the hotels and shops and if you like the disease ridden "girls" that now roam the island looking for suckers to part with their money in exchange for a trip to the clinic, then that's your life style choice.

 

Just a shame this modern day tourist trash had to ruin one of natures most beautiful islands. Not everyone is  interested in diving and snorkeling in somewhere where thousands of others have been before.

Ahh, Chiang Rai, like Yorkshire, a place where the beaches are free of pollution, sex doesn't exist and drugs are properly hidden.

[xylophone]

18 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I see no reason that Phuket will not keep being a popular tourist destination in the near or long term future   

Although it may seem counter to some of my posts, I believe you are right. However the quality of those tourists is another matter, because they are ensuring that it becomes a low-rent tourist destination, much like the Costa Brava years ago which attracted a whole host of unsavoury Brits opening all sorts of bars and cafes serving typical English food, in fact I remember walking down one street and I had to remind myself that I was in Spain because every cafe/restaurant was advertising fish and chips, steak and kidney pies, full English breakfasts and so on.

 

So popular it will be, but not with the type of tourist that many of us and perhaps TAT originally envisioned.

 

Bangla of course is a major attraction and will continue to be so because although it's seedy there are very few places like it and for all its faults, it does try to portray itself as "the life and soul of the place" and for some people it is. Not just the bar mongers, but for folks wanting to have an enjoyable night out listening to music and watching the world go by and perhaps even talking to a few of the bargirls, some of whom can hold a reasonable conversation. So all of this is new to many people and often times they come back for more – – and not just single men, older couples and families as well.

 

What many of us expats who live here perhaps fail to remember, me included, is that for these tourists the "underbelly" is exactly that and is never experienced by the majority of holidaymakers, but us residents know about such things and for me anyway it grieves me enormously so I have to try look past this and look to those things which make my life here worth living.

 

For the record, I also like Chiang Rai and I like it for its laid-back people and style and the surrounding countryside, whereas I like Patong/Phuket for its vibrancy, restaurants and the friends I have here, so I guess it's different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.

 

 

 

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

 

 

What many of us expats who live here perhaps fail to remember, me included, is that for these tourists the "underbelly" is exactly that and is never experienced by the majority of holidaymakers, but us residents know about such things and for me anyway it grieves me enormously so I have to try look past this and look to those things which make my life here worth living.

 

For the record, I also like Chiang Rai and I like it for its laid-back people and style and the surrounding countryside, whereas I like Patong/Phuket for its vibrancy, restaurants and the friends I have here, so I guess it's different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.

 

 

 

Just singling out a few lines which I think were very well written.

 

In the late 70s and early 80s, the only tourists that visited Phuket were the Americans on R&R and to be honest, they were much better behaved than todays trash. If you wanted sex with someone who had been with thousands of others before you, you went to the Pearl Hotel where it was all discretely handled and yes, this was the underbelly...I agree. Life went on and you could walk the streets of Patong without a whore in sight. There was a wonderful sign at the entrance to Karon "We hope you enjoyed Karon and have left her as beautiful as you found her". Some hope today, Karon is a bedraggled old lady instead of the beautiful woman she was.

 

Phuket had the opportunity of a lifetime after the sad event of the Tsunami. With the money pouring in it could have had a modern rail or tram transport system around the island and quality tourism but it attracted all the flotsam and jetsam of the world together with the Thai mafia turning it into what it is today. Very few who think Phuket is great ever knew the Phuket of old so cannot compare. 

 

I guess I am just a different generation who appreciated natural beauty and not whore houses and night clubs blazing away until dawn. I pray that Chiang Rai, Mae Chan and Mae Sai never become what Phuket is or at least for the remaining years I have left.