Patong is dead.

[Peterw42]

There is a big difference between an opinion and being proved correct.

 

People who dont have long term Visa's yet they are experts on Visa's, people dont own, buy or sell property yet they are experts on the property market, and unless you have personal access to the immigration data bases, a little hard to be an expert on expats leaving. Unless you are directly involved in a business, or own a bank, you probably have little idea of the current economy.

 

I haven't heard of the Chinese buying dried fruit as a reliable economic indicator. Maybe they will start using it in the financial news

 

Go to the land office on any given day, there are 1000s of people exchanging property and for every seller there is buyer. Go to immigration on any given day and there are 1000s of people reporting, and extending there stay, you dont go to immigration when you are leaving. These are things NKM has never seen as he does not have a long term Visa or own a property.

The day I go to the land office and its empty, I will believe the property market has collapsed, and the day I go to immigration and its empty, I will believe all the expats have all left.

 

Developers keep building properties because there is money in it. The airport has been expanded because more people are coming. Immigration offices are getting bigger not smaller.

 

 

[phuketjock]

26 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I was probably visiting Phuket for long periods before you even knew it existed. You do not have to be a resident to comment on the island.

 

How long have you been living in Phuket?

I first came to Thailand in 1980 and have been living permanently in Phuket for 10 years 

previous to which I was based in Phuket working on an on off rotation for several years,

and you? Oh sorry you are not actually living in Phuket are you?

Previous to that I worked in Malaysia and had a house in Hatyai/Songkhla for 10 years.

So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??

 

[Flustered]

45 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

I first came to Thailand in 1980 and have been living permanently in Phuket for 10 years 

previous to which I was based in Phuket working on an on off rotation for several years,

and you? Oh sorry you are not actually living in Phuket are you?

Previous to that I worked in Malaysia and had a house in Hatyai/Songkhla for 10 years.

So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??

 

A few years longer than you. First visit 1978. My first visit to Thailand to Bangkok was in 1976.

 

So you will remember Phuket Town as it was. the Thavon Hotel in Ratsada Road, the Siam tailors shop next to the On On Hotel, the Vijitt when it was a collection of small huts (stayed there for many a month), Nai Harn when there were no buildings at all, Surin beach - a pristine beach with absolutely no bars, cafes, hotels or anything and just one English/Thai lawyer on the whole island.

 

You do not have to be a permanent resident to know about Phuket. 

 

 

[KarenBravo]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

A few years longer than you. First visit 1978. My first visit to Thailand to Bangkok was in 1976.

 

So you will remember Phuket Town as it was. the Thavon Hotel in Ratsada Road, the Siam tailors shop next to the On On Hotel, the Vijitt when it was a collection of small huts (stayed there for many a month), Nai Harn when there were no buildings at all, Surin beach - a pristine beach with absolutely no bars, cafes, hotels or anything and just one English/Thai lawyer on the whole island.

 

You do not have to be a permanent resident to know about Phuket. 

 

 

Says the person that stated Soi Bangla was full of tea-shops and few naughty bars before the tsunami  

Edited May 23, 2017 by KarenBravo

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

There is a big difference between an opinion and being proved correct.

 

People who dont have long term Visa's yet they are experts on Visa's, people dont own, buy or sell property yet they are experts on the property market, and unless you have personal access to the immigration data bases, a little hard to be an expert on expats leaving. Unless you are directly involved in a business, or own a bank, you probably have little idea of the current economy.

 

I haven't heard of the Chinese buying dried fruit as a reliable economic indicator. Maybe they will start using it in the financial news

 

Go to the land office on any given day, there are 1000s of people exchanging property and for every seller there is buyer. Go to immigration on any given day and there are 1000s of people reporting, and extending there stay, you dont go to immigration when you are leaving. These are things NKM has never seen as he does not have a long term Visa or own a property.

The day I go to the land office and its empty, I will believe the property market has collapsed, and the day I go to immigration and its empty, I will believe all the expats have all left.

 

Developers keep building properties because there is money in it. The airport has been expanded because more people are coming. Immigration offices are getting bigger not smaller.

 

 

 

"These are things NKM has never seen as he does not have a long term Visa or own a property." - true and false. 

 

I am under 50 years of age so no long term visa for me, however, I go to Immigration for visa extensions four times a year.

 

I do not own a property here, but I own a few properties in different countries, actually, on different continents.  As a result, I show an interest in various property markets.  That said, I have never been into the Land Office here.

 

Yes, they have extended the airport.  There are more people coming, but I would suggest the people coming have a low daily spend, and as we all know, have been called "zero baht tourists." 

 

For TAT's idea to benefit the tourism industry here, you would need these tourists in even bigger numbers, just to get close to the revenue that used to flow in from the previous western market, and then Phuket's infrastructure couldn't such numbers. 

 

I have made predictions on this forum.  Not all of my predictions come true.  That is the nature of speculation and investment.  I am happy to debate my predictions and projections.  If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to post and tell me why you think I am wrong.

 

Simple market forces, supply and demand, dictates when there is plenty of supply, prices fall, and when there is plenty of demand, prices rise.

 

There are many properties for sale on Phuket that have been on the market for years, and I use the term "years" literally.  They are not selling.  I have posted a website and figures.  It is not my opinion, it is a fact.  That website had 1576 properties for sale. 

 

They keep building here, yet, there are thousands of properties currently on the market for sale.  What do you think this does to property prices? 

[phuketjock]

14 minutes ago, Flustered said:

A few years longer than you. First visit 1978. My first visit to Thailand to Bangkok was in 1976.

 

So you will remember Phuket Town as it was. the Thavon Hotel in Ratsada Road, the Siam tailors shop next to the On On Hotel, the Vijitt when it was a collection of small huts (stayed there for many a month), Nai Harn when there were no buildings at all, Surin beach - a pristine beach with absolutely no bars, cafes, hotels or anything and just one English/Thai lawyer on the whole island.

 

You do not have to be a permanent resident to know about Phuket. 

 

 

Sorry not really up for a stroll down memory lane .

I do feel you have to be living somewhere to be current and up to date with what's happening now,

which is what the thread is about.

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Sorry not really up for a stroll down memory lane .

I do feel you have to be living somewhere to be current and up to date with what's happening now,

which is what the thread is about.

Or unable to?

[CharlieH]

Bickering/bating posts removed.

 

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

I first came to Thailand in 1980 and have been living permanently in Phuket for 10 years 

previous to which I was based in Phuket working on an on off rotation for several years,

and you? Oh sorry you are not actually living in Phuket are you?

Previous to that I worked in Malaysia and had a house in Hatyai/Songkhla for 10 years.

So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??

 

 

"So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??" - and the award for the longest "boiling frog" on Phuket goes tooooooooo - phuketjock. 

 

[NamKangMan]

11 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Sorry not really up for a stroll down memory lane .

I do feel you have to be living somewhere to be current and up to date with what's happening now,

which is what the thread is about.

 

This issue has been raise in this thread.

 

If you have been living here for years, is it possible you don't see the changes to Phuket.  The "boiling frog" term has been used to describe this.  Another term is, "can't see  the wood from the trees." 

 

I know since I have been living here full time I find it more difficult to see Phuket through a first time tourist's eyes.

 

You have been here for decades, is it possible you don't see Phuket in the same way as someone who has been here only for a few years?  Serious question.

[NamKangMan]

3 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

There you go again.........equating Patong to the whole of Phuket.

 

You could substitute Singapore for all your points, should everyone leave?

 

Well, I live in Patong, do you????

 

By your argument, members not living in Patong should not post on this thread. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by NamKangMan

[phuketjock]

4 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

This issue has been raise in this thread.

 

If you have been living here for years, is it possible you don't see the changes to Phuket.  The "boiling frog" term has been used to describe this.  Another term is, "can't see  the wood from the trees." 

 

I know since I have been living here full time I find it more difficult to see Phuket through a first time tourist's eyes.

 

You have been here for decades, is it possible you don't see Phuket in the same way as someone who has been here only for a few years?  Serious question.

Do you actually read anything properly before you blunder in with your nonsense.

I have not been here for " decades " and I don't wear blinkers like you seem to.

[NamKangMan]

4 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Do you actually read anything properly before you blunder in with your nonsense.

I have not been here for " decades " and I don't wear blinkers like you seem to.

 

"So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??" - your words, not mine.  

 

So, how many years of the 37 in Thailand have you lived on Phuket?

 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by NamKangMan

[phuketjock]

17 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"So all in 37 years experience of Thailand and yourself??" - your words, not mine.  

 

So, how many years of the 37 in Thailand have you lived on Phuket?

 

 

Read the thread and you will find the answer to your question o great one.     

Or should I say grasshopper.            

Edited May 23, 2017 by phuketjock
addition

[SooKee]

Jeez, came to check the updates on 'Patong is dead' only to find 4 pages on fruit growing and farmers.  Talk about OT!

[madmitch]

Perhaps I'll try to get this thread back on topic.

 

I made a rare visit to Patong to celebrate a birthday last week and whilst not dead, it certainly was far from busy. Although Bangla seemed to have plenty of customers, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that 25% of the people on the street were touts or promotion people, mostly Thai but with a smattering of farangs, including for the Russian Gogo, which I don't think existed last time I was there.

 

The busiest bar seemed to be the New York Music Bar, though I'd guess most of the customers were Chinese so I don't know how much money was being spent. The bars in the various side sois were generally quiet, pretty desperate for business. Of course there were exceptions, where a group had taken refuge mainly, but so many had no custom whatsoever. 

 

The bars around Kangaroo were doing OK with, probably, a typical low season crowd, but people know you can get a beer for 80 baht in Kangaroo, rather than 120 baht in Tiger. I wish they'd change the sound system though, which has so much bass it's almost uncomfortable.

 

Being a birthday bash we frequented a couple of the gogo bars with Suzy Wong's the busiest by far but again with a mostly Asian clientele. We finished the evening in a packed Taipan, which, unlike the beer bars, was back to late night trading, though I've noticed a significant increase in their prices (beer 180 baht, spirit and mixer 220 baht), though it's at least 2 years since I was last in there. 

 

It's low season so difficult to judge from one visit but it wasn't as "dead" as some seem to think. 

 

And, just for Bulldozer Dawn, I noticed only one group of your favourite "hiphopslim" customers all evening, quietly having a beer in Kangaroo!

[sekmet]

Side sois: kepsub, sansabai, post office or elsewhere; does anyone venture down/up there? Are they dead?

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[NamKangMan]

17 hours ago, phuketjock said:

Read the thread and you will find the answer to your question o great one.     

Or should I say grasshopper.            

 

The thread is over 100 pages.  Simple question really. 

[NamKangMan]

12 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Ok.  I called Ian.  The fruit comes from outside Phuket.

 

Ian Jamieson????

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I don't disagree with you Peterw42, however, let's look at it.

 

A Thai truck driver transports the dried fruit from a factory that is off Phuket, say Bangkok.  He lives in Bangkok, and spends his salary in Bangkok.  No benefit to Phuket.  Right?

 

The rest of the staff you mention, either directly, or indirectly, benefit from high sales of the fruit, using the fruit as an example, however, as mentioned, they buy it from Big C by the trolley load, and that is no exaggeration.

 

The sales, admin staff, lunch maker etc already have a job.  In any case, they are 6000 - 9000 baht a month staff. Sure, they have to have a roof over their head and feed themselves, but I am suggesting they do not have any real impact on the Phuket economy.  Eg. house loans, buying a car, furniture, higher end electrical products etc.  They are more like 60 baht noodle soup eaters, renting a shared square box for 4000 baht a month..  Right? 

 

"there are supply chains, goods and services that hotels and restaurants use everyday" - I don't disagree, but how much of the money the supply chains make, stays inside the Phuket economy, past the low level salary, cheap labor Thai's? 

Maybe all the money, is made, and stays, in Bangkok. Maybe they have so much money in Bangkok that they regularly go on holidays to Phuket.

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Perhaps I'll try to get this thread back on topic.

 

I made a rare visit to Patong to celebrate a birthday last week and whilst not dead, it certainly was far from busy. Although Bangla seemed to have plenty of customers, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that 25% of the people on the street were touts or promotion people, mostly Thai but with a smattering of farangs, including for the Russian Gogo, which I don't think existed last time I was there.

 

The busiest bar seemed to be the New York Music Bar, though I'd guess most of the customers were Chinese so I don't know how much money was being spent. The bars in the various side sois were generally quiet, pretty desperate for business. Of course there were exceptions, where a group had taken refuge mainly, but so many had no custom whatsoever. 

 

The bars around Kangaroo were doing OK with, probably, a typical low season crowd, but people know you can get a beer for 80 baht in Kangaroo, rather than 120 baht in Tiger. I wish they'd change the sound system though, which has so much bass it's almost uncomfortable.

 

Being a birthday bash we frequented a couple of the gogo bars with Suzy Wong's the busiest by far but again with a mostly Asian clientele. We finished the evening in a packed Taipan, which, unlike the beer bars, was back to late night trading, though I've noticed a significant increase in their prices (beer 180 baht, spirit and mixer 220 baht), though it's at least 2 years since I was last in there. 

 

It's low season so difficult to judge from one visit but it wasn't as "dead" as some seem to think. 

 

And, just for Bulldozer Dawn, I noticed only one group of your favourite "hiphopslim" customers all evening, quietly having a beer in Kangaroo!

 

"I'd guess most of the customers were Chinese so I don't know how much money was being spent." - "with Suzy Wong's the busiest by far but again with a mostly Asian

clientele"

 

These quotes highlight the point I am making.

 

Yes, tourist arrival numbers are up.  I have never disagreed with this.  Just look at all the coach buses. 

 

Many members seem to think the current demographic of tourists, mainly Chinese, but also Indians and Russians, are "spenders" like the previous western market.  I suggest they are not, and even though they are here in big numbers, there would need to be a lot more to have the same cash injection into the Phuket economy as the western market used to. 

 

Basically, if TAT wants to use the less profit from each tourist, but a lot more tourists, they are going to need a lot more Chinese, then, you have to look at whether Phuket's infrastructure can handle that business model. 

 

"difficult to judge from one visit but it wasn't as "dead" as some seem to think" - you said it yourself, "I don't know how much money was being spent."  I would suggest, nowhere near the money in the past, and not enough money for the future. 

[NamKangMan]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe all the money, is made, and stays, in Bangkok. Maybe they have so much money in Bangkok that they regularly go on holidays to Phuket.

 

 

 

 

You make an interesting point. 

 

I did read domestic tourism to Phuket has increased, but you know what Thailand is like, the wealth is held by a small minority, earned off the backs of the lower class cheap labor Thai's, so, whilst profits may leave the island, it's not going to the masses, or the broader base of Thai's, it's going to the wealthy minority, so not a big target market to aim for.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by NamKangMan

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"I'd guess most of the customers were Chinese so I don't know how much money was being spent." - "with Suzy Wong's the busiest by far but again with a mostly Asian

clientele"

 

These quotes highlight the point I am making.

 

Yes, tourist arrival numbers are up.  I have never disagreed with this.  Just look at all the coach buses. 

 

Many members seem to think the current demographic of tourists, mainly Chinese, but also Indians and Russians, are "spenders" like the previous western market.  I suggest they are not, and even though they are here in big numbers, there would need to be a lot more to have the same cash injection into the Phuket economy as the western market used to. 

 

Basically, if TAT wants to use the less profit from each tourist, but a lot more tourists, they are going to need a lot more Chinese, then, you have to look at whether Phuket's infrastructure can handle that business model. 

 

"difficult to judge from one visit but it wasn't as "dead" as some seem to think" - you said it yourself, "I don't know how much money was being spent."  I would suggest, nowhere near the money in the past, and not enough money for the future. 

 

You dont seem to realize that the demographics have changed. Just because "you" dont see westerners spending in bars doesn't mean money is not being spent. Next time you go to Bangla Rd, walk around the corner towards paradise complex and have a look at restaurant No 6 , there will be a queue of Chinese stretching down the street.

Go over to Nakha night market and have a look at the 1,000s of Russian families buying stuff, so much stuff that they also buy suitcases to put the stuff in.

Go down to the Sea Gypsies Fish Market in Rawai , I dont think they even bother printing English menu's anymore, its all Chinese.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, Chinese, Russians etc spend money, they spend money at ground level, they eat in cheap Thai restaurants, They shop at Thai night markets, they use local transport and they go on tours.

 

Maybe you need to get out more.;

 

The economy of Phuket is no longer westerners propping up bar stools in Bangla Rd

 

My Condo block has 2 buses every morning taking Russian kids to school.

[madmax2]

Russians no matter what anyone claims on this forum are good for Phuket's economy

Lots of then have invested in property and businesses here, its the British people who have left due to poor exchange rates and lack of affordable business opportunities, a lot of the were speculating in real estate when the market was good for them, they got out while the going as good before the current oversupply of properties made them almost impossible to sell

Only recent property sales i know of the sellers are excepting 30 to 40% of their asking price

I fell sorry for the people who paid inflated prices here promoted by a lot estate agents who think they can get their money back or even make a profit on their property 

[madmax2]

47 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

You make an interesting point. 

 

I did read domestic tourism to Phuket has increased, but you know what Thailand is like, the wealth is held by a small minority, earned off the backs of the lower class cheap labor Thai's, so, whilst profits may leave the island, it's not going to the masses, or the broader base of Thai's, it's going to the wealthy minority, so not a big target market to aim for.

 

 

 

The cheap labor here are not Thai's they come from surrounding countries, Myanmar, Laos and cambodia mainly and always have, mainly Thai's working in Bangla road where they can make a lot better money of the tourists 

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Yes, tourist arrival numbers are up.  I have never disagreed with this.  Just look at all the coach buses

Getting away from fruit, farmers, who has been here the longest and who's got the longest dong........tourist arrivals seem up but there is very little money flowing into the local economy AND quite where these people are staying is a mystery??

 

I've always been one for testing stats by getting down to the ground level to check them out................two examples where this worked: Rank Xerox gave my team the highest sales targets in the uk based on 2200 older copiers in my region which were ripe for upgrading, but my guys weren't selling anything, No good for them and no good for paying the mortgage so went out with them and found there were only 800 copiers in existence so no chance of reaching targets.

 

So the head office data collection,  sales info, service records and monthly usage sheets were all wrong, terribly so.

 

When I started with Amex as Director of sales and establishment marketing in NZ the agency and the marketing team had all the stats showing that 24,000 establishments (businesses)  accepted the Amex card, but I was suspicious of the number so did some of my own groundwork, then set up a call centre to check the numbers. Sure enough the numbers were well over the top with actually 13,000  accepting it and live.

 

The point is that I don't believe the numbers put out by TAT or who ever, and getting out ön the ground supports my argument..............A Thai friend is the maintenance engineer on a resort just near beach road and it has 100 rooms of which ONE is currently occupied; a hotel owner by Thai chinese in new middle road were once very busy catering for the chinese market. Not now as business has dropped off sharply.

 

Rooms just off the main drag can be had for 8000 baht a month, shutters down on many shops in new middle road and Nanai, the Large Chang Residence Hotel and restaurant in Nanai hasn't served a meal there in almost 2 years and the hotel is almost empty. two Italian restaurants closed near me.............and the story is similar elsewhere.

 

As for property again the spruikers would have you believe all is fine and dandy. Not so...............Ace and Phanason Park have gone bust; seen no action on Dinso apts for nearly 2 years.the second phase of a development off Phra Baramee has come to a grinding halt; The Deck apts/condos are under 50% sold and I believe its the same story with The Charm.

 

Houses I know off have been for sale for 10 years now and not moved and in desperation a friend sold his 62sqm apt on a golf course for 1.55m baht.

 

None of the above are signs of a booming economy no matter what colour glasses you're wearing.

 

PS. please forgive any spellers etc as writing this from a hospital bed!!

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

The thread is over 100 pages.  Simple question really. 

Simple answer to a simple question really.

[Peterw42]

22 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Many members seem to think the current demographic of tourists, mainly Chinese, but also Indians and Russians, are "spenders" like the previous western market.  I suggest they are not, and even though they are here in big numbers, there would need to be a lot more to have the same cash injection into the Phuket economy as the western market used to. 

I have Australian friends who holiday in Phuket 3-4 times a year, they fly here on an Australian airline, they stay and eat at guesthouses and small hotels owned by Australian expats and their Thai wives, they spend most of there time in  bars owned by Australian Expats. Maybe you can explain how this is putting money into the Thai economy, and how is this any different to what Chinese and Russians do ?

 

 

[NamKangMan]

29 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

You dont seem to realize that the demographics have changed. Just because "you" dont see westerners spending in bars doesn't mean money is not being spent. Next time you go to Bangla Rd, walk around the corner towards paradise complex and have a look at restaurant No 6 , there will be a queue of Chinese stretching down the street.

Go over to Nakha night market and have a look at the 1,000s of Russian families buying stuff, so much stuff that they also buy suitcases to put the stuff in.

Go down to the Sea Gypsies Fish Market in Rawai , I dont think they even bother printing English menu's anymore, its all Chinese.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, Chinese, Russians etc spend money, they spend money at ground level, they eat in cheap Thai restaurants, They shop at Thai night markets, they use local transport and they go on tours.

 

Maybe you need to get out more.;

 

The economy of Phuket is no longer westerners propping up bar stools in Bangla Rd

 

My Condo block has 2 buses every morning taking Russian kids to school.

 

"You dont seem to realize that the demographics have changed." - you're joking, right???? 

 

I am clearly saying the tourist numbers are up, but the money from them is down, way down.  I really can't be any clearer than that.  I know the demographics have changed.

 

"Just because "you" dont see westerners spending in bars doesn't mean money is not being spent." - sure, but is more or less being spent by the new tourist demographic?  This is crucial to Patong's future, is it not?

 

"have a look at restaurant No 6 , there will be a queue of Chinese stretching down the street" - I live in Patong.  I see it whenever I am out.  Once again, and I can't be any clearer, does ten Chinese tourist at a cheap Thai restaurant spend the same as a western couple eating at a mid to high end restaurant having steak and having a bottle of wine?  I would suggest you would need a lot more Chinese tourists to replace the lost western couples for the same amount of money to be injected into the local Phuket economy.

 

"Chinese, Russians etc spend money, they spend money at ground level, they eat in cheap Thai restaurants, They shop at Thai night markets" - once again, I don't disagree, but compare them to western tourists and I suggest they do not spend as much, despite their higher numbers.

 

"Maybe you need to get out more" - no, I don't.  I see it on a daily basis.  Do the math, how many Chinese equals one westerner for daily spend?

 

"The economy of Phuket is no longer westerners propping up bar stools in Bangla Rd" - I agree, but they were more lucrative than the current demographic.  This thread is "Patong is dead" and Bangla Road  is the main tourist strip in Patong.  So, by your comment, are you agreeing that "Patong is dead?" 

 

"My Condo block has 2 buses every morning taking Russian kids to school." - you are now talking about expats.  This thread is discussing tourists and tourism.  This comment is better suited on another thread currently running.

 

Once again, I know what TAT's business model is for the new demographic.  Basically, for example, they have said we need ten Chinese to come to Phuket to replace the one western tourist Phuket has lost.  (less profits per tourist but more tourists to keep the same profits)  Due to the fact they eat and shop on the cheap, I would suggest they need even more numbers to cover the losses from the western market.

 

I'll say it clearly, and feel free to quote me on it.  The tourist numbers are up, but the money from them in Patong is down. 

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Getting away from fruit, farmers, who has been here the longest and who's got the longest dong........tourist arrivals seem up but there is very little money flowing into the local economy AND quite where these people are staying is a mystery??

 

I've always been one for testing stats by getting down to the ground level to check them out................two examples where this worked: Rank Xerox gave my team the highest sales targets in the uk based on 2200 older copiers in my region which were ripe for upgrading, but my guys weren't selling anything, No good for them and no good for paying the mortgage so went out with them and found there were only 800 copiers in existence so no chance of reaching targets.

 

So the head office data collection,  sales info, service records and monthly usage sheets were all wrong, terribly so.

 

When I started with Amex as Director of sales and establishment marketing in NZ the agency and the marketing team had all the stats showing that 24,000 establishments (businesses)  accepted the Amex card, but I was suspicious of the number so did some of my own groundwork, then set up a call centre to check the numbers. Sure enough the numbers were well over the top with actually 13,000  accepting it and live.

 

The point is that I don't believe the numbers put out by TAT or who ever, and getting out ön the ground supports my argument..............A Thai friend is the maintenance engineer on a resort just near beach road and it has 100 rooms of which ONE is currently occupied; a hotel owner by Thai chinese in new middle road were once very busy catering for the chinese market. Not now as business has dropped off sharply.

 

Rooms just off the main drag can be had for 8000 baht a month, shutters down on many shops in new middle road and Nanai, the Large Chang Residence Hotel and restaurant in Nanai hasn't served a meal there in almost 2 years and the hotel is almost empty. two Italian restaurants closed near me.............and the story is similar elsewhere.

 

As for property again the spruikers would have you believe all is fine and dandy. Not so...............Ace and Phanason Park have gone bust; seen no action on Dinso apts for nearly 2 years.the second phase of a development off Phra Baramee has come to a grinding halt; The Deck apts/condos are under 50% sold and I believe its the same story with The Charm.

 

Houses I know off have been for sale for 10 years now and not moved and in desperation a friend sold his 62sqm apt on a golf course for 1.55m baht.

 

None of the above are signs of a booming economy no matter what colour glasses you're wearing.

 

PS. please forgive any spellers etc as writing this from a hospital bed!!

Its the end of high season, isnt some empty hotels and shutters down, normal for this time of year ? I have some Thai friends who only open their shops for high season, and mothball a few rooms in the guest house until next year.

 

Interested to know where you get the sold figures for some condo blocks ? I have friends who are in the real estate business and they are the first to admit, that unless you are the developer or work at the land office, then actual sales figures are hard to come by