Gold Shop Harassment for "deposit" of 10k

[easybullet3]

i bought Gold quite a few times in Bangkok in "Hua Seng Heng" (which is one of the most famous and oldest gold sellers)... they had LOTS of 5 and 10 baht golds.. i couldnt see any reason to leave any deposit for something which is ready available .

Also: it seemed that EVERY shop I went into had 5 and 10 bahts of gold.

I'm sure by now you must have noticed that the OP is about 900km away from Bangkok, and that at his location NOT every shop has 5 and 10 bahts of gold in stock

this is not a special model of shoes that has a limited run and only a few pairs left in your size...

Well, 5 baht of gold also cost a bit more than a pair of shoes, don't you agree?

this is standard Gold,, (available throughout Thailand). it doesnt change,, there is no special design. its just a lump of Gold... (make sure you get them to WEIGH IT) and check it is absolutely correct.

i think you should NEVER leave any deposit for a Gold Bar... because its nothing special.. (can get it anywhere).

My experience is that if you order something they don't have usually stock of, be it gold or a pair of shoes or a birthday cake, you pay a deposit. This is so in Thailand and in most countries in the world I have been.

I know he is NOT in bkk.

and I know a bar of Gold is NOT the same as a pair of shoes!

i'm drawing comparisons.

Gold IS NOT LIMITED,,, whereas shoes or fashion items (or a specially crafted gold necklaces CAN be limited)

as far as I am aware, a bar of gold,, (no matter what size) will always be available to humans to buy (for the foreseeable future). Definitely not limited.

I am fully aware how a deposit works... (as we all are).

the point is that (no matter how few shops selling gold bars in his local area), his question was about the deposit... and my reply was to put things into perspective for him.

i cant imagine he needs to rush and get the gold bar instantly (this week)... (unless its a dowry or special gift for a special day).

if he has no deadline, then my comments are completely valid.

if he does have a deadline, then of course the PRESSURE to act and buy something quickly may necessitate a deposit to guarantee he doesnt 'miss-out' on the last few bars of gold in his local town.

.. of course,, within a week or two,,, all the bars of gold in his town that were sold will be replenished with new stock. (because that is what shops do... they replenish stock).

I have learned that there is NEVER a rush, unless something is LIMITED... (and i am sure that Gold is NOT limited)

i did read a few replies here that many people think his girlfriend might be 'in on it' and she gave the deposit on purpose as a means to force him to buy the gold. this also wouldn't surprise me. Lol

Edited February 14, 2015 by easybullet3

[scorecard]

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FYI - I would not assume that leaving a deposit locks in today's price. In fact, I would doubt that they could do that. If they price goes up in the next 24 hours (it just shot up about $8 but that means nothing) expect to pay more.

If the price goes down I would buy at the lower price or demand my deposit back and go buy it next door.

Thats clearly not what a deposit does.. A deposit indicates the firm agreement to buy, at a set price.. At teh time of the deal..

If the price rises, they have to honor it.. If the price falls you do.. Given the price was falling they were almost certainly concerned she would try to squirm out of the agreed price..

Any return of the deposit will I am sure come after a deduction in falling price levels, as is fair.. Of course in a rising market I bet they wouldnt hesitate to give the deposit back in full and no one would hesitate to buy the gold.

"Thats clearly not what a deposit does.. A deposit indicates the firm agreement to buy, at a set price.. At teh time of the deal.. "

So, to the OP, does the receipt for the 10,000 Baht deposit mention a set price?

Edited February 14, 2015 by scorecard

[scorecard]

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FYI - I would not assume that leaving a deposit locks in today's price. In fact, I would doubt that they could do that. If they price goes up in the next 24 hours (it just shot up about $8 but that means nothing) expect to pay more.

If the price goes down I would buy at the lower price or demand my deposit back and go buy it next door.

Thats clearly not what a deposit does.. A deposit indicates the firm agreement to buy, at a set price.. At teh time of the deal..

If the price rises, they have to honor it.. If the price falls you do.. Given the price was falling they were almost certainly concerned she would try to squirm out of the agreed price..

Any return of the deposit will I am sure come after a deduction in falling price levels, as is fair.. Of course in a rising market I bet they wouldnt hesitate to give the deposit back in full and no one would hesitate to buy the gold.

"Thats clearly not what a deposit does.. A deposit indicates the firm agreement to buy, at a set price.. At teh time of the deal.. "

So, to the OP, does the receipt for the 10,000 Baht deposit mention a set price?

A wider question for the folks in CM who are knowledgable about buying / holding gold.

Is there a specific gold shop you would buy from in CM?

Why? I know next to nothing about gold, buying / holding gold but one of my first thoughts is whether the gold bar I might buy is acceptable quality / fake, etc., especially in terms of resale.

Please share.

Edited February 14, 2015 by scorecard

[JulieM]

Scorecard, go to any of the bigger retail outlets at Worarot Market, or the shop on Nimmenhaemin near the Lotus Tesco. Zero chance of being cheated. Resale at the same shop where your bought it, if practical.

[amexpat]

when we returned the next day to buy the 5 baht bar, the one they had for us was scratched, so we asked for a different one and they brought several out of the back. It was obviously not a question of whether they had stock or not, they had larger bars as well. This was not a tiny shop, I think it might be the biggest one in Chiang Mai? At least in Wallarot

And then what happened? Let me guess:

You found that their gold was fake so you demanded they return your deposit, but they refused and threatened to have you beat to a pulp by their thugs.

You realized your girlfriend was in on the scam so you called the police who told you to go back where you came from while they openly pocketed a share of your deposit.

Right?

No worries, much more advice on what you should have done and cautions about the dangers is surely forthcoming.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

This is a lot of discussion on buying a bit of gold.

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but what is the point in holding a gold bar in your own possession? I can see having it as jewelery (like a chain or necklace, so you can wear it / show it off), but just as a little bar? Isn't that what banks are for?

As for deposits.. whatever: all those gold shops are the same. There's no real point in picking another one. The one mentioned in the OP is fine.

[Regyai]

They're not all the same a nondescript blob of gold (that some shops sell) will be way more problematic to redeem than will a bar (per my photo) from a country wide recognised source which are virtual cash in Thailand.

Ownership, there's many and varied personal reasons. But they are nothing like banks Gold - has total anonymity and un-traceability

.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Regyai

[stat088]

Only buy physical gold at a reputable gold shop who is a member of the Gold Traders Association - GTA [of Thailand] such as Hua Seng Heng located at Yaowarat and on Silom Rd. to ensure you get the real stuff. If you have Baht you will get gold your there and then, no questions asked, no 'deposit' shenanigans. Yesterday there was a big dip in the gold price and the shop I went to was crowded with eager buyers.

Note that in Thailand gold bullion bars (1, 2, 5,10 & 20 baht weight) are 95.6% pure (about 23 karot). Fine gold 99.99% is available but usually only in larger size bars and you may need to book ahead to obtain it.

96.5%

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They're not all the same a nondescript blob of gold (that some shops sell) will be way more problematic to redeem than will a bar (per my photo) from a country wide recognised source which are virtual cash in Thailand.

Ownership, there's many and varied personal reasons. But they are nothing like banks Gold - has total anonymity and un-traceability

Ah.. Ok. Yes, I agree that's a good reason.

[Cheesekraft]

This is a lot of discussion on buying a bit of gold.

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but what is the point in holding a gold bar in your own possession? I can see having it as jewelery (like a chain or necklace, so you can wear it / show it off), but just as a little bar? Isn't that what banks are for?

As for deposits.. whatever: all those gold shops are the same. There's no real point in picking another one. The one mentioned in the OP is fine.

if you want to hold gold, if its not physical it is not real. Much like bank money, there is much more being traded online than does actually physically exist. Gold is a nice hedge against inflation; if you have money in a bank it is slowly losing value (even with savings account interest, usually). Gold is a physical store of value that does not depreciate like money does, and it is an investment as such. It is also easily sold or transported if need be.

[Dante99]

"Gold is a physical store of value that does not depreciate like money does,"

The people that bought at $1,800 an ounce might disagree with you since they have lost about 35% since then.

[onthedarkside]

Last 5 Years Thai Gold Price Graph

[bangmai]

The most successful company in US History:

[JulieM]

Have a look at the chart for the last 15 years...

[bangmai]

Gold was at 415 usd in February 2000, you would have made 15 times more with Philip Morris (Marlboro).

[LivinLOS]

Gold was at 415 usd in February 2000, you would have made 15 times more with Philip Morris (Marlboro).

I put life savings into gold at 380 and silver at 6:80..

When silver was up near 50 I was lording it.

[Cheesekraft]

with most investments, there is some variance. With fiat currencies; there is more certainty; your value is depreciating over time. There is comfort in that certainty, but over time, it will lose to more solid investments. If you are planning on holding gold for only a couple of years, it is more of a gamble than an investment in that time frame. Of course, if you pick a perfect stock you will do better, no doubt.

when banks can simply print dollars, baht, etc, which they do, it makes the value of all other dollars and Thai baht drop in value because inflation (long term)

Edited February 17, 2015 by Cheesekraft

[maidee]

her money or your money ?

planning a trip to pattaya to go show everybody you walk around 100.000 baht around your neck ?

Edited February 17, 2015 by maidee

[WorkingTourist]

Of course, if you pick a perfect stock you will do better, no doubt.

Or you can invest in a market index, which is easier than picking the perfect stock:

Source: http://www.marottaonmoney.com/since-1979-the-sp-500-grew-13-5-times-greater-than-the-price-of-gold/

[onthedarkside]

Troll post removed.

[LivinLOS]

Of course, if you pick a perfect stock you will do better, no doubt.

Or you can invest in a market index, which is easier than picking the perfect stock:

Source: http://www.marottaonmoney.com/since-1979-the-sp-500-grew-13-5-times-greater-than-the-price-of-gold/

Although those charts never seem to remember that tracker funds have annual administration costs etc..

Of course you can attempt to replicate the index's but then that missed the stocks that go belly up and are 'moved out of the index'..

But yes over 30 plus year time horizons thats a very valid strategy.. Especially in countries where rule of law and business environment hold up over time..

[WorkingTourist]

Although those charts never seem to remember that tracker funds have annual administration costs etc..

That’s a good point.

For the records, Vanguard’s S&P 500 ETF has a 0.05% expense ratio: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0968&FundIntExt=INT

But yes over 30 plus year time horizons thats a very valid strategy.. Especially in countries where rule of law and business environment hold up over time..

Certainly you can invest in the general market with a horizon shorter than “30 plus year”, so far the markets have always recovered from a crisis, and in much shorter time than 30 years.

[LivinLOS]

1929 to Nov 1954.. 25 years underwater..

I gave 30 as I would include a return on it..

[Cheesekraft]

Of course, if you pick a perfect stock you will do better, no doubt.

Or you can invest in a market index, which is easier than picking the perfect stock:

Source: http://www.marottaonmoney.com/since-1979-the-sp-500-grew-13-5-times-greater-than-the-price-of-gold/

low fee index funds are also a great option, and ideally would make up a large chunk of any investment portfolio (as well as precious metals imo). Unfortunately, we don't have access to such funds here in Thailand.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Cheesekraft

[jerome2]

How to be sure its not tungsten with gold around when even

central banks have been robbed that way

[Dante99]

How to be sure its not tungsten with gold around when even

central banks have been robbed that way

just cut in half

[Anthony5]

How to be sure its not tungsten with gold around when even

central banks have been robbed that way

I have a testing device for that which works faultlessly.

Testing is free of charge and when the test device shows it is tungsten I even compensate you at the tungsten day rate, and will destroy the fake bullion.

Any takers PM me.

[puukao]

i am the sure the store owner doesn't care about making money.....so a deposit is fine, lock in the price of gold!!! he is saving it for you.

i gave a guy 100,000 deposit, and the next day his store was closed, but they said he went on vacation. he opened next door, but under a different name, and said he didn't remember me......so i gave him another 100,000 deposit.....no worries

i feel so much better when all my money is gone...

and then i went to a gold dealer and immediately it was valued 40% lower...

but this a long-term hold....so the owner said i should buy more.....

[connda]

FYI - I would not assume that leaving a deposit locks in today's price. In fact, I would doubt that they could do that. If they price goes up in the next 24 hours (it just shot up about $8 but that means nothing) expect to pay more.

If the price goes down I would buy at the lower price or demand my deposit back and go buy it next door.

Then there was no reason to leave a deposit if it wasn't a lock on the price. There is a sucker in every crowd.

Edited August 22, 2015 by connda

[No1]

Then there was no reason to leave a deposit if it wasn't a lock on the price. There is a sucker in every crowd.

Things in Thailand happen without what we would call "reason". Too hard to figure out what happens in a Thai lady's brain when she sees gold.