Long term relationship with broke Thai man

[Browncow3]

Hi girls,

I am in need of some constructive advice. The story is this:

I have fallen head over heels for a Thai man and marriage is on the cards. Now I've questioned myself as to whether I am being naive, and I don't think I am but here goes..

1. He is not lazy. If something needs doing around the house, motorbike fixed or any technical issue he takes care of it willingly and quickly.

2. He is truly the most generous man I have ever met - if not financially.

3. He does have a job but it is basic labor which pays peanuts and he is self-employed.

4. He has a COMPLETELY different understanding of finances than to me. He doesn't know how to plan, save or even manage money. He lives from hand to mouth. I know I do need to accept a cultural as well as class difference here. I don't mean class in a derogatory sense, but he is a lower-income bracket earner with a different background.

5. I want children with this man and this is mainly because he loves kids, takes time and care with them, actually has all the time in the world for them if not providing financial support.

6. The list goes on about him being fantastic in every other way.

The problem is he is broke all the time and I regularly give him money which I know won't, and do not expect to be paid back. I am also in a position where I have about 10 times earning power as he does being a farang.

But... I have become resentful. When I wake up at 6 every morning to go to work and he stays and snoozes till whatever time.... when I work nights or weekends to make some extra cash for holidays and things and he is not contributing...

There is another issue. Constantly asking me for money and needing help when his rent is late etc is emasculating for him. There is a huge amount of pressure building up that has the potential to ruin an otherwise wonderful and fulfilling relationship.

What can I do to solve this once and for all? I have thought about paying him an "allowance" every month so I don't keep giving in drips and drabs and discussing his becoming the equivalent of a 'kept' woman in western terms. Again emasculating, but how about cleaning the house and being the key care-giver of our kids? This will all come in the future though... what do I do right now?

I want this relationship to work and be mutually fair and beneficial...

Any tips, ideas, advice please.

Thanks

[jvs]

Sounds like the shoe is on the other foot,now you can imagine how many men feel who are in the same position but with a partner who is a female.

I think the answer is the same as in those cases,there are many threads you can look up on TV about this issue.

There is no clean cut answer as every case is different but you still have the chance to fix things before it is too late.

You need to have a good conversation with him and take it from there.

If you have a gut feeling about this ,and i think you do,you have to take action accordingly.

[KarenBravo]

Thai men will accept money from anyone and not feel "emasculated".

[daveAustin]

Not trolling here (I'm in 'Ladies' as the topic popped up on the frontpage) and you probably don't want to hear this, but probably best to knock it on the head now. Don't think either of you will ever be truly happy as you're too mismatched and that resentment that is building will only continue to do so, especially when there are commitments. That would include him as, being a Thai guy with the face and everything here, he'll likely end up feeling a bit worthless even though they're partial to reaping money from wherever. Also, being that far apart educationally is always going to be a sticking point. My advice, heed that intuition that is gnawing away at you right now! At least have a big break away if you can; at least three months.

[SpokaneAl]

The way it is now is the way it will for as long as you remain with this guy. You must decide if this is what you want in a relationship, and if it truly makes you happy.

[Costas2008]

Hmmmm......he's a nice man and you love him......at the moment the situation as I understand is acceptable.

What is going to happen when you have kids and you will not be able to work as hard as now?

Please think of it and make your decision.

I know it will be hard, but think of yourself, your future and the future of your kids.

Best of Luck to you.

[Browncow3]

Thank you to everybody for the thoughtful feedback. I appreciate not being attacked. Excuse the lists but it's easier for me to collect my thoughts - I would like to add:

1. We are intellectually matched - has nothing to do with education - different lifestyles yes. And honestly - I envy his life style and care-free - the universe will take care of me type of attitude. I even admire it.

2. After 35 years of relationships - I believe every man (person) has his faults and you have to decide which you are prepared to deal with. For example he is not a ladies man, fooling around, out drinking all night etc. which I would find intolerable. His 'fault' is one of financial naivety. Something I don't find offensive just challenging.

3. I don't subscribe to the traditional idea that a man should support a woman - sometimes the roles are swapped. I am prepared to support my children with or without a man - yes it will be difficult, maybe awfully difficult, but not impossible.

4. He definitely does feel emasculated. He wouldn't let me buy him a birthday present saying I spend too much money on him.

I feel that with an open conversation about my expectations he will absolutely come to the party. I just need to decide what to ask for.

I'm really looking for ideas on how he can pull his weight in ways that aren't financial.

Sorry if this is getting boring...

Anyone else got something to say? Male perspectives are welcome too.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Browncow3

[Berkshire]

Does he have any marketable skills? Perhaps you and him and go into business together. That may motivate him, especially if he takes out a loan and has to pay it back.

Curious, but if you two come from totally different social classes and backgrounds, how did you meet?

[inzman]

In a marriage small problems become big problems with time. I don't think it would ever work out. Why would you want to put yourself thru such torture and wast your precious time with someone, and know in the end it was a waste of time and effort.

[samsensam]

does he go out and do a full days work 6 days a week, which is quite common here?

if so then he is contributing as much as he can in terms of showing willing to work and contribute as much as he can

you could try giving him an incentive to work by agreeing to double his earnings. so the more he works and earns from work the more he'll get from you.

clearly something has to change as resentment in a relationship can be very damaging. it can be difficult to get over unless the other party recognizes their real or perceived short comings and is prepared to do something about it.

an american female friend of mine dated a very pleasant thai guy for a while but the class (he low, her middle) and cultural difference were too much. the fact he was basically a lazy person didnt help.

good luck though!

[scubascuba3]

Maybe you can give him a monthly allowance, thousands of farang men do it every month in Thailand. it would make me question whether its a genuine relationship or for money, same again farang men. You can probably assume the money situation won't change, he will always depend on you. If you don't mind that then again it's fine. Same situation back home men supporting women for generations.

[petermik]

If your asking these questions now-you know how it will be in a couple of years time- walk away now

[copa8]

Seems like mostly male TVF members advised you to walk away, while mostly female members gave constructive advice on how to make the relationship work. I wonder why? Anyway, based on personal (career not relationship, though) experience, I say follow your heart or else you might regret what might have been.

[rabid old goat]

pleased to hear you are at one with the universe.

[bina]

hi, i can tell u that after 7 years of marriage (im american/israel, married to korat village thai guy, with israeli citizenship finally), i am still the financial advisor in my family; husband doesnt ahve a credit card as he hasnt a clue how to manage money that he 'doesnt see'... i.e. money in the bank, long term payments, returning loans, etc are not his forte. in thailand the banks for villagers work a bit differently, and if ther eare financial problems they sell /loan out the land/house/car. well, here in israel if the bank doesnt get its money every month then u are facing many problems... therefore, i do the money managment, and he earns the money (i am a kibbutznik which drives him nuts as i dont earn money but do get an apartment, and many benefits... long story): he works in tel aviv 5\6 days a week, 12 hours a day in thai restaraunt, comes home on friday saturday, sleeps to catch up on lost hours, putters around the house and fixes stuff, and goes back to work on sunday. from his money he now takes out a certain amount to send home for house/parents/lotto whatever, and i dont ask him as the first five years his minimam wage went to paying rent to kibbutz and us and there wasnt enough for saving to build house etc.

thai village men for the most part very much want/need/must have house/land and money that they use for their own purposes, and also mostly feel they must support the family (wife/and or parents).

my husband has refused taking money from me (from my parents/kibbutz related).

my husband , although aware of the benefits of financial planning desnt seem to be able to implement it. we want to save for future (restaraunt/live off kibbutz whatever) but when i remind him that we cannot buy a car and save at same time, his answer is then fine, if we dont have money for xxx then we dont need to buy xxx. when we ahve money we can use it. if we dont then we will make do.

that is very different to how i was raised/taught. i have a sort of safety net in the kibbutz living situation howver if i were to have mutual children with him, i would find that attitude prolematic.

village thais will use an entire cash sum to buy something and then if there is an emergency there is no money saved up for backup. if family has emergency, money is lent or given .

thai viallge men with no skills will find it difficult to find worthwhile lucrative jobs unless they work overseas or sometmies far from home.

this is my second marriage, and i am willing to (at the moment) havew my husband live away from me to earn our keep, but like i sais, i have kids from previous marriage, am busy with my own work, hobbies et c on kibbutz, and he feels secure that i am 'taken care of' if there are problems.

it sounds like u have questions, and if u are thinking about kids, and are the type that gets nervous if ther eis no money for doctors/food/housing/whatever, u might want to rethink this.

when my husband was unemployed he stayed at home, fixed things, slept etc ; but his friends did make comments about him not 'taking care' of me etc. ; also, the longer he was unemployed the more lazed around and had less motivation to get up and out... but when he works, he is a very very hard worker and puts work and money making above 'being a couple and doing couple things' (here in israel our lifestyle draws a huge amount of criticism as here,being a couple is more important than makig money at all costs).

as for other things, i am educated , he isnt. i was previously married with 3, he has no kids and sometimes ahs problems with the fact that we never did together.

in general, thais equate money with love/support of family. contributing in other ways is not always considered. also, regardless, the thai men that ive met and know all seem to feel that women are in charge of households, inclding household finances, and men are out earning the bacon and thats about it. so although he may help around the house, u may be expected to do most of the house stuff even if he isnt working at the present moment. (my husband will do laundry or wash house/he does cook mostly but still considers housework to be a women thing. he also doesnt feel that i should consult him in household purchases, even large summed ones (like buy a dryer finally after 7 years of line drying clothes).

but this is my husband. other women here(thai husband/israeli wife) have other experiences. hoever, from the couples that are here in israel, that seems to be the norm , because most of our husbands come from small villages /agricultural way of living as we met them while they were here as migrant workers or restaraunt workers. most women here dont have husbands from the higehr socail classes, although that might change too.

a clasic if annoying example: my birthday, and no present. his answer: i give u all the salary, that means i care for you. ... i explain that its not money but thought, therefore i dont care if he gets my a 10 shekel bottle of pink nail polish, its the point. his answer is: in village, we dont give presnets. money=love and concern, so deal.

hahah, tomorrow, i have day off, as he does, and he got salary in hand so off to tel aviv to claim a small gift and have a day going to market and movie . again, i am not just the finaancial advisor but also the cultural advisor and meal planner.

[claffey]

He sounds quite lazy to me! Thailand has the lowest unemployment rate in the world so it should be pretty easy to find a job that pays at least 10 to 15 thousand a month. What's gonna happen if you have kids with this man? You will need time off to look after them. Or you let his family have your child to look after while you work??? Thai men are seen as a failure if they can't provide for their families. Sorry for being harsh but I have a family here and its not cheap...food, school fees..etc...

[uptheos]

No foreigner can give you a Thai male perspective.

Any advice that I would give here, would probably hurt your feelings.........

........but, I'd walk and wouldn't look back........sorry if it's blunt and good luck.

[Boo]

Depends what you want in the future. I was never looking for a walking wallet with a penis. My relationship is based on more than money. A lot of men & women seem to think that money makes a man but it doesn't. Not in proper, grown up relationships based on love & respect imo. What makes a man is conduct, values, actions & various other things personal to the person making the judgment. Money is nice if it comes as part of a more complete package but it shouldn't be the only thing they have going for them.

I married for love & what my husband represented, he isn't rich & probably never will be, his family are decent & kind, he is hard working & self sacrificing for our family. I make more than him but he isn't a kept man as we have a union & partnership of which money is not a factor. We need it to put a roof over our head & food in our bellies but we don't need it to be happy.

Mine works hard but less hours = less money but takes on most of the childcare & cooking saving us hundreds of pounds every month & our child benefitting from a strong relationship with his father., I work long hours, without complaint as I know my boys are together & our son safe & looked after, my job bumps up our lifestyle but we have lived on his earnings before & could again.

If he were lazy, cruel, stupid, disrespectful or selfish then I wouldn't be writing this as I wouldn't be married to him. He isn't & it is part of the reason we have been together 15 years. The number on his paycheck has never been an issue.

So decide what is important, try to look objectively, where you will be in 10-15 years, will this man be supporting your life or draining it? And I am talking about energy, emotional support, family support, everything that is important in life . Not money

[NickJ]

If your happy ..... but then I note that you mention a 35 year history of relationships with men. So doing the math and considering kids. Sounds like you could be in a hurry to have kids, not such a good thing considering the unknowns. Not to be mean.

[SpokaneAl]

Depends what you want in the future. I was never looking for a walking wallet with a penis. My relationship is based on more than money. A lot of men & women seem to think that money makes a man but it doesn't. Not in proper, grown up relationships based on love & respect imo. What makes a man is conduct, values, actions & various other things personal to the person making the judgment. Money is nice if it comes as part of a more complete package but it shouldn't be the only thing they have going for them.

I married for love & what my husband represented, he isn't rich & probably never will be, his family are decent & kind, he is hard working & self sacrificing for our family. I make more than him but he isn't a kept man as we have a union & partnership of which money is not a factor. We need it to put a roof over our head & food in our bellies but we don't need it to be happy.

Mine works hard but less hours = less money but takes on most of the childcare & cooking saving us hundreds of pounds every month & our child benefitting from a strong relationship with his father., I work long hours, without complaint as I know my boys are together & our son safe & looked after, my job bumps up our lifestyle but we have lived on his earnings before & could again.

If he were lazy, cruel, stupid, disrespectful or selfish then I wouldn't be writing this as I wouldn't be married to him. He isn't & it is part of the reason we have been together 15 years. The number on his paycheck has never been an issue.

So decide what is important, try to look objectively, where you will be in 10-15 years, will this man be supporting your life or draining it? And I am talking about energy, emotional support, family support, everything that is important in life . Not money

You provide a very nice perspective on things and I wish you and your family the very best life has to offer.

My only disagreement is your view on money. I believe it definitely does matter. And while it should not drive every decision we make, it is important. A comfortable home, helping the children go to college through consistent saving and investing, funding retirement so we have some choices and options in life - these are all important.

My wife and I are in our mid 60s, retired, and after decades of working and saving hard we are now retired. If not for careful saving, investing and planning our leisure time would involve eating cat food while we argue with the television about politics. Instead we have some choices.

And that is all we want for life - to enjoy each other and live the life that we have grown accustomed to and feel that we deserve. And that is not accomplished with out years of hard work and planning.

So please don't discount the value of money. It may not bring happiness, but it sure beats the alternative.

Edited February 13, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[uptheos]

Ask yourself how would you feel if you had to prove to the government that you have 400,000 baht in the bank every year as well?

[Boo]

SpokaneAl

I probably didn't make clear that from my point of view in life, I have the ability to earn more so don't "need" a husband who earns a lot to be happy. We do save, have pensions, land, houses etc but they aren't the burden of one person. We work together as a unit to achieve our goals & currently due to my age & earning capabilities I am the main breadwinner, he takes on more custodial functions in our family but when we were first married his income supported us both & when we retire it will be to his house, land & country we will go so he will take a more active role in our financial needs then.

My point to the op was more about what you need in a relationship. If she wants to be a stay at home mum & have 10 kids, she'll probably need someone who can financially support that choice but if like me she doesn't intend to stop work & likes working & can earn good money, then is a partner earning the same really that big a deal?

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[NeverSure]

I just read the OP again. Frankly the guy sounds lazy and irresponsible to a high degree. If he isn't helping much now, why would he take care of children?

There are a lot of Thai males that are like this and they are well known for it. Others expected him to lose face when you give him money but to the contrary he wants money.

I say run, don't walk away from this. The things that bother you now will get worse with time and especially with children.

[geriatrickid]

If you are asking questions on a forum, you obviously have some reservations.

You have observed that your man isn't good with money. Well, that's not unusual. Despite Thailand being a male dominated society, it is also a matriarchal society where the mother is the key person in the household. Most Thai people fall into the have not or modest income group, and women typically control the family budget. All of male friends, despite their educations are incapable of budgeting properly and are useless when it comes to saving. On the other hand, the girls I know have been the careful ones with money. I suppose that's the result of coming from an environment where the woman runs the home and has to make sure the kids are fed and clothed. My longwinded point is don't stress over your guy's ineptitude with money, as it is not unusual. He managed along before he met you, so he is quite capable of managing money, just not in the same way as we are used to.

In respect to Thai males and children, yes. Thais as a general rule are good with kids. Thais also like puppies and kittens. Unfortunately, when cute puppies and kittens reach a certain age, they are quickly abandoned. Many of my Thai male friends who have kids, love them, but they leave the burden of caring for the kids to others. I have one friend who won't change a diaper as he says that is the nanny's job, and another who handed over responsibility for the feeding and care to his mother in law. It reminds me of the Victorian era set up where the father was distant from the children. If you have kids, just remember that the burden of caring for them will most likely fall to you.

Are you happy now? If you are, then leave it alone and don't obsess over the issue. On the other hand, you indicate your frustration. That's an issue that will grow over time unless you reconcile yourself with his lifestyle. If you can't accept it, then the situation will only get worse. If I was in your position, I would feel the same way and honestly I can't deal with it. I have given my companion money over the years. I did it because I knew it would be spent for the benefit of the two of us and it allowed the other to maintain some semblance of balance. The other person had to give up some opportunities to accommodate me. Sometimes we do not easily see that the other person has made compromises in his/her life for our benefit.

The only suggestion I would make is to put the prospect of marriage to the side. Wait on it. This may be contrary to your personal views, but this is Thailand and marriage is not a necessity. Remember too that you as a foreigner (unless an American) have very restricted rights when it comes to owning property. The marriage laws can penalize the wealthier person when the marriage is dissolved. I suggest you maintain your independence and treat the relationship as a developing long term situation. Whether you are married now or in 3 years, won't change the fundamentals of your relationship. You will know in a year or two if this guy is for you. In the meantime, keep living your life such that your financial security and peace of mind is assured.

[doremifasol]

No one here can really tell you what to do.

Trust your instinct. Even if it might not sound convenient.

Wish you the best

Edited February 19, 2015 by doremifasol

[ttthailand]

If you marry in the future how will he pay the sinsod

He is a Thai man so he should pay. If you were a Thai lady making 10 times more money it would probably be very high amount or would not marry. Are you sure he is not with you for your money ?

Edited February 19, 2015 by ttthailand

[asdecas]

Oh boy, I'm gonna enjoy this one. Hang on while I get a beer from the fridge and adjust my headrest.

[SpokaneAl]

Oh boy, I'm gonna enjoy this one. Hang on while I get a beer from the fridge and adjust my headrest.

It seems that you may be a bit late to the party.

[maidee]

who will pay for the house, car, motosays, children's education, while you take care of your children/family as you will not be able to work when u are very pregnant / just delivered baby ?

or you want to pop out a child and go to work directly after ?