Thai hospitals a word of warning !

[tartempion]

I had a myocardial infarct May 2000.

I got first treatment at Pattaya Memorial, subsequently was transferred to bumrungrad (insurance company negotiation )

I got a detailed invoice of near 200k, all paid by the insurance company except a few phone calls and some coke....

Cardial catherisation (same procedure for stent implant) costed 22k, 11 days some in ICU, some in room at 4k/nigth, nurse fees 20k, 50k doctors fees for seeing me 5 minutes/day, but they needed to make a medical report isn't?

Insurance company flew a cardio over and brought me back to my university home hospital in Belgium.

There I got two stents implanted, one normal 50k baht equivalent on the invoice, one medicated for free, due to inclusion of a study (TAXOL), almost all paid by Belgian health care system.

No doubt OP got overcharged, Thai private hospitals are businesses,unlike Belgian hospitals which are non-profit.

Endless tests?

A stress test should suffice after angina suffering, I have a yearly stress test.

And several friends got PTCA after a stress test.

The OP should have received a detail invoice isn't?

Edited February 25, 2015 by tartempion

[lopburi3]

The price for complete procedure/medications/stay for PTCA median price listed at Bumrungrad Hospital is currently

THB 442,545

for single vessel: and does not say it includes any stent placement.

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/realcost-thailand-surgery/final-bill-estimate-surgery-cost-pricing?Pid=0&RealCostPid=446

[NanLaew]

... Difference for me though was I did NOT let my insurance lapse so I went back to the states to have it done....cost 70,000 dollars (2,800,000 baht at the time) which my insurance paid all.

And that is testament to why the US healthcare, medical and pharmaceutical industry is morally bankrupt.

Glad to hear you had a successful op though. Not your fault the whole system is corrupt and flawed.

[cumgranosalum]

Anyway no amount of insurance will guarantee you appropriate treatment in Thailand - the training is corrupt and the customer comeback and ethics are non-existent.

The medical services in Thailand are a complete lottery. - use them at your peril.

[cumgranosalum]

So here's my Thai Hospital/Insurer horror story: I had surgery that cost more than my first 3 years' total insurance premium (I was younger then). The in-network hospital obtained Authorization from the Insurer.

When I was about to check-out after 8 days as inpatient, the accounting office called and said that there was a problem with the insurer and the bill. I thought 'Oh sh&t; here it comes'. I went to the Accounting office and the problem was that the insurer refused to pay for 2 Coca Colas that I had drank from the hospital room minibar. Other than that, bill was paid 100%.

Even in the worst countries, insurance works most of the time - it is those cases where things go wrong that the country's true colours show through.

To imply that "because I had a ""successful"" experience, everybody else will{" is just plain daft.

Furthermore there is the "satisfied patient" syndrome. The patient goes in sick and comes out feeling the situation is resolved. This may be quite correct. What the patient hardly EVER knows is whether the treatment they received was in fact the most appropriate or best for their problem, but because they feel fine, they than conclude that the care they got was "of the highest standard" - this is of course a false conclusion, it is by a association and not true cause.

If you're having difficulty with this let me illustrate with a verbal caricature......

If a patient presents with a sore thumb nail and an infection is diagnosed - the thumb is amputated and the infection is stopped, the patient leaves "cured" - however a course of antibiotics would have done the job as well and the patient would have left the hospital cured....and for the sake of argument , none the wiser.

Edited February 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[JLCrab]

So here's my Thai Hospital/Insurer horror story: I had surgery that cost more than my first 3 years' total insurance premium (I was younger then). The in-network hospital obtained Authorization from the Insurer.

When I was about to check-out after 8 days as inpatient, the accounting office called and said that there was a problem with the insurer and the bill. I thought 'Oh sh&t; here it comes'. I went to the Accounting office and the problem was that the insurer refused to pay for 2 Coca Colas that I had drank from the hospital room minibar. Other than that, bill was paid 100%.

Even in the worst countries, insurance works most of the time - it is those cases where things go wrong that the country's true colours show through.

To imply that "because I had a ""successful"" experience, everybody else will{" is just plain daft.

Furthermore there is the "satisfied patient" syndrome. The patient goes in sick and comes out feeling the situation is resolved. This may be quite correct. What the patient hardly EVER knows is whether the treatment they received was in fact the most appropriate or best for their problem, but because they feel fine, they than conclude that the care they got was "of the highest standard" - this is of course a false conclusion, it is by a association and not true cause.

If you're having difficulty with this let me illustrate with a verbal caricature......

If a patient presents with a sore thumb nail and an infection is diagnosed - the thumb is amputated and the infection is stopped, the patient leaves "cured" - however a course of antibiotics would have done the job as well and the patient would have left the hospital cured....and for the sake of argument , none the wiser.

Thank you. After your illustration, I'm having even more difficulty.

[LuckyLew]

Happy birthday

Maybe the extra 130 000 was for the cake

Hope you are well on the road to recovery

[TheFishman1]

I like Ram Hospitol

[brling]

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You let your insurance lapse !!Then you complain about Thai hospital !!!

They helped you kept you alive to moan about it. Ungrateful thats what you are.

Hey look everyone - Great Granddad is awake!

Yes, he is wide awake and moaning

[harryfrompattaya]

The Cardiologist at RAM is Dr Patarapong and he's one of the best in Thailand so what ever you paid, you got high quality medical service.

But the typical charge at RAM for using a non-medicated cardiac stent is around THB 220k, using a drug eluting stent almost doubles the price, compare that against say Bumrungrad where the average cost would have been THB 186k https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/heart-treatment-surgery-thailand/coronary-angiogram-with-ptca-3-1 and I suspect that you had either a medicated stent implanted else your case was far from routine.

Says who?

His mother and wife

[whiteman]

I did not read all the replies but I am sure the op will So if it has not been mentioned you will now be very lucky if you can get medical cover for any thing related to your heart or blood pressure ect. Sorry to say but letting you cover lapse was not smart and I hope you will not be one of the so called gang that comes on here slanging heath insurance at a later date/. Seeing you can not get the cover you now wish to have

[cumgranosalum]

Not to trivialize the situation but this is a route en operation in the UK In and out in about 12 hours, they put the stint in through the veins in the leg they go up through the Thigh and place the stint, two stitches that's the scar

and it'll cost a lot more than 380k THB

- the UK it's free.

Ridiculous - I'm paying £ thousands every year, whether I use the NHS or not.

Its only free if you don't pay tax.

so why pay insurance on top?

[cumgranosalum]

I did not read all the replies but I am sure the op will So if it has not been mentioned you will now be very lucky if you can get medical cover for any thing related to your heart or blood pressure ect. Sorry to say but letting you cover lapse was not smart and I hope you will not be one of the so called gang that comes on here slanging heath insurance at a later date/. Seeing you can not get the cover you now wish to have

Can you imagine the NHS adopting that policy?

[konying]

So here's my Thai Hospital/Insurer horror story: I had surgery that cost more than my first 3 years' total insurance premium (I was younger then). The in-network hospital obtained Authorization from the Insurer.

When I was about to check-out after 8 days as inpatient, the accounting office called and said that there was a problem with the insurer and the bill. I thought 'Oh sh&t; here it comes'. I went to the Accounting office and the problem was that the insurer refused to pay for 2 Coca Colas that I had drank from the hospital room minibar. Other than that, bill was paid 100%.

Scamming insurance companies

[konying]

Anyway no amount of insurance will guarantee you appropriate treatment in Thailand - the training is corrupt and the customer comeback and ethics are non-existent.

The medical services in Thailand are a complete lottery. - use them at your peril.

I think the same applies worldwide.

Yes doctors are held more accountable in some other countries, but it does not stop doctors from making mistakes or not paying attention or providing wrong or incorrect treatment

In my opinion, its always best to question the doctors and do as much personal research as possible, including second opinions.

When doctor thinks you understand or have an idea, they treat more carefully and pay more attention, knowing you on top of things.

When you follow without questioning,they treat you like a fool in many cases.

At times, you questioning, may even give them or a clue or an idea, they did not even think of in the first place

[mogandave]

They probably saved your life.

Just be thankful you weren't in the USA.

It would have cost you much more.

Yes, but in the US you don't have to pay the bill.

[djayz]

They probably saved your life.

Just be thankful you weren't in the USA.

It would have cost you much more.

Yes, but in the US you don't have to pay the bill.

Who pays the bill if the patient DOESN'T have insurance?

[mogandave]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

[malt25]

going into hospital in Thailand = very foolhardy.

So, if in critical condition you just sit down on the road & die. That might be considered a little more foolhardy....... you think.

Just saying.

[TSF]

Seems when you ask many Thailand hospitals for a quote they give you a quote for the primary service but when they make the final bill there are add ons. I've found this a few times with different hospitals around the country. One time several years ago at the dental clinic of a SriRacha hospital I saw the dentist and she told me the work required and gave me a quote. It was higher than i expected but I went with it. When I went to pay the bill I found her quote was for her work only. They accounts department added on a fee for use of surgery, the dental assistant's fee, charges for the materials/drugs used. So the final bill nearly doubled.

Also recall getting a blood test at an Udon hospital and asking beforehand how much the blood test costs. And when I paid that bill there were add ons - lab fee, technician's fee and so on...

So when getting quotes we need to make sure the quote covers everything involved.

[NanLaew]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

...and they pass the savings on to you.... NOT!

The 'care provider' hikes your insurance premiums and the doctors and pharma company owners get the latest Benz or Beemer.

[DaddyWarbucks]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

...and they pass the savings on to you.... NOT!

The 'care provider' hikes your insurance premiums and the doctors and pharma company owners get the latest Benz or Beemer.

Agreed... it's an absolute racket.

If there is one healthcare system to use as an example for how not to do it, it is the American one.

[mogandave]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

...and they pass the savings on to you.... NOT!

The 'care provider' hikes your insurance premiums and the doctors and pharma company owners get the latest Benz or Beemer.

As I said, that is one reason the cost is so high, ultimately they get their money.

I could be wrong, but (except for HMOs) I think it is the insurance company that control premiums, so perhaps you should be ranting about how greedy they are?

What kind of car should a doctor or the owner of a pharmaceutical company drive?

The primary problem with the medical system in the US is the ever increasing involvement of government.

You guys crack me up.

[CharlieH]

Having had a good exposure and response in "General forum", now moving to the Health forum for future reference for members.

[cumgranosalum]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

...and they pass the savings on to you.... NOT!

The 'care provider' hikes your insurance premiums and the doctors and pharma company owners get the latest Benz or Beemer.

As I said, that is one reason the cost is so high, ultimately they get their money.

I could be wrong, but (except for HMOs) I think it is the insurance company that control premiums, so perhaps you should be ranting about how greedy they are?

What kind of car should a doctor or the owner of a pharmaceutical company drive?

The primary problem with the medical system in the US is the ever increasing involvement of government.

You guys crack me up.

to get a perspective on this check out the figures =for the percentages of GDP that is spent on healthcare on various nations ....

[cumgranosalum]

going into hospital in Thailand = very foolhardy.

So, if in critical condition you just sit down on the road & die. That might be considered a little more foolhardy....... you think.

Just saying.

A pretty facile remark? "Just saying"

[mogandave]

The care provider eats it. That is one reason the cost is so high.

...and they pass the savings on to you.... NOT!

The 'care provider' hikes your insurance premiums and the doctors and pharma company owners get the latest Benz or Beemer.

As I said, that is one reason the cost is so high, ultimately they get their money.

I could be wrong, but (except for HMOs) I think it is the insurance company that control premiums, so perhaps you should be ranting about how greedy they are?

What kind of car should a doctor or the owner of a pharmaceutical company drive?

The primary problem with the medical system in the US is the ever increasing involvement of government.

You guys crack me up.

to get a perspective on this check out the figures =for the percentages of GDP that is spent on healthcare on various nations ....

I have a perspective on it, but thanks.

[davidst01]

The big hosptials are a scam and its all money drven. Bumrungrad is the worst. A lot of dr's there are unethical when it comes to the charging.

[cumgranosalum]

As I said, that is one reason the cost is so high, ultimately they get their money.

I could be wrong, but (except for HMOs) I think it is the insurance company that control premiums, so perhaps you should be ranting about how greedy they are?

What kind of car should a doctor or the owner of a pharmaceutical company drive?

The primary problem with the medical system in the US is the ever increasing involvement of government.

You guys crack me up.

to get a perspective on this check out the figures =for the percentages of GDP that is spent on healthcare on various nations ....

I have a perspective on it, but thanks.

sorry, I meant to get a "more realistic perspective"

[paddyjenkins]

It was probably just indigestion