Riding Laws for Larger Cycles

[cromagnon]

Wouldn't it be nice (hearken Beach Boys) if Thailand road rules differentiated in their laws regarding big cycles vs smaller cycles the way it's done in the west? For example, it is actually the law that ALL motorcycles must ride on the left lane, or on the left side of the road, regardless of engine size. Also, large cycles are, for some ridiculous reason, restricted from riding on toll roads. Why? There is no good reason for this. Thais stupidly group all cycles into one category, probably because the vast majority of cycles on the road are under 150cc. This is backward thinking and it's time for change to this ridiculousness. After all, there are plenty of cycles on Thailand's roads with larger engines than some of the cars and much more fast and powerful.

I got pulled over once (talked my way out of paying a fine) up here in northern Thailand by a copper who told me, while riding my Honda 650cc cycle, that riding in the right lane is illegal for cycles. His explanation was that cars in the right lane regularly drive 150 kph and this puts me in danger. LOL, what a joke. In other words, the police inability to stop people from almost doubling the speed limit impinges on my riding rights?

Another significant factor in this is that it's SAFER to cruise the right lane on roads with multiple lanes because, as experience riders know, vehicles (especially mopeds) are predisposed to pulling out in front of you (from the left) without checking for oncoming traffic. This is a serious hazard, especially for the cyclist. Riding to the right alleviates this to a great degree. But it's illegal. This needs to be reversed. We have a situation where obeying the law actually puts the rider in greater danger.

The fact is that cycles 650cc and over are well able to keep up with autos. There should be no motorcycle restrictions on these cycles. They should not be grouped with smaller cycles. They should be given the same rights on the road as cars, same as it is in the west.

I would gladly take action, if I knew what to do, in order to bring this about.......but I would not know where to start.

[Crossy]

Let's move this to the Bikes forum since it's about motor cycles rather than the bicycles that live in the Cycling forum.

[papa al]

650cc.

Heck, my 150cc can clock 150 kph.

I that good or bad.?

Being a rebel rider & shit-disturber, I regularly exceed the posted limit, but I don't get cited for speeding @ radar traps, as cars do.

Is that good or bad?

Giving a hoot/whining about the laws... no point in it!

Just ride.

Edited March 2, 2015 by papa al

[NoshowJones]

Let's move this to the Bikes forum since it's about motor cycles rather than the bicycles that live in the Cycling forum.

Although I ride a PCX, I agree entirely with the OP. Technically, big bikes have to stay on the frontage road heading and coming from The Don Muang airport area before you hit the elevated tollway.

Even for bikes having to keep to the left, what if the rider wants to do a right hand or U turn further up the road? When is he/she allowed to move to the right? If he/she is on a busy road, they may not even get the chance to make that right hand or U turn. No other vehicles are going to let the bike out to the right hand lane.

This is just more of the low mentality that keeps Thailand a third world country.

[Marcel1]

I ride whereever I deem its the most safe to ride, except for bkk where police stops are at every corner sometimes. Outside of that a rarely see police even trying to stop me. The one time a year they do Im happy to pay 100baht for his lunch. Riding is cheap here so I dont worry abt the 100 once a year "road tax".

Still I agree they should change the law. But this topic is done to death already and gave up on hope they will change

[andrewrooney]

You're right, of course. It's an outdated law that assumes every bike on the road is a 50cc Super Cub.

Unfortunately there's not really anything we can do about it. My approach is to ignore the law, ride in whichever lane I think is best, and be happy that fines are so low. Three years of daily riding in Bangkok I've only had to pay for this right lane nonsense one time. 200 baht in three years is pretty good, so I'm not going to let it worry me.

[papa al]

Let's move this to the Bikes forum since it's about motor cycles rather than the bicycles that live in the Cycling forum.

Although I ride a PCX, I agree entirely with the OP. Technically, big bikes have to stay on the frontage road heading and coming from The Don Muang airport area before you hit the elevated tollway.

Even for bikes having to keep to the left, what if the rider wants to do a right hand or U turn further up the road? When is he/she allowed to move to the right? If he/she is on a busy road, they may not even get the chance to make that right hand or U turn. No other vehicles are going to let the bike out to the right hand lane.

This is just more of the low mentality that keeps Thailand a third world country.

What about the mentality of someone who posts nonsense, as high-lighted above?

Left hand, right hand... so difficult to remember which is which!

[Crowleys]

Ah, that's why i got fined few weeks ago. Didn't understand a word the copper said, he was just pointing the right lane. Didn't know that law.

[guzzi850m2]

Yes agree with OP

Also no bikes on toll ways, they should make it possible for over certain cc bikes to ride there.

[papa al]

Freedom!

[for 149.6 cc]

[JonnyF]

Obviously should change, it makes no sense for a 200 hp motorbike to have to use the left hand lane while a 30 year old rusty pickup that would probably fall apart if it exceeded 80kph can drive wherever it wants.

However, it's quite a nice little earner for the "police" in Bangkok so I'd imagine it will stay.

[Gonsalviz]

Ah, that's why i got fined few weeks ago. Didn't understand a word the copper said, he was just pointing the right lane. Didn't know that law.

I guess I go too fast for them to stop me. In Isan they never have. In Bkk I never see them.

[ianf]

I'm not quite sure why people (usually Americans) confuse motorbikes with cycling. This is a cycling sub-forum. Americans often call cyclists 'bikers'. Quite offensive in my view.

[seedy]

Blame Arlo -

[Dakling]

Could be a safety issue with wind gusts on elevated tollways I suppose, but I see the boys in brown up there with there cbr150's all the time. Certianly no reason why larger displacement bikes can't be on the non elevated tollways.

[AllanB]

I am with PapaAl on this, the laws here aren't unenforced so what does it matter. In the west where apparently we have all these sensible laws, you can't do Jack without receiving a letter in the post asking for £60 and 3 points on your licence, for exceeding the speed limit by 1kph on an empty road at midnight.

As far as the traffic laws are concerned give me Thailand every time, fines/bribes cost me around 200baht/year (£4) and paid without a lecture from some self righteous plod.

Keep bikes off the bloody tollways, is scares the crap out of my in my big truck the way the Thais drive when they are paying for the road.

Edited March 10, 2015 by AllanB

[Gweiloman]

Could be a safety issue with wind gusts on elevated tollways I suppose, but I see the boys in brown up there with there cbr150's all the time. Certianly no reason why larger displacement bikes can't be on the non elevated tollways.

Yes, could well be. Also, the barriers can be quite low so I can imagine how easy it would be for a biker to fall over onto the road below if hit by another vehicle.

There was an article about a security guard who fell over the DM tollway and I also saw a recent video of a young lad who fell from an elevated road and got hit by a car. Amazing, he apparently survived

[Gweiloman]

I am with PapaAl on this, the laws here aren't unenforced so what does it matter. In the west where apparently we have all these sensible laws, you can't do Jack without receiving a letter in the post asking for £60 and 3 points on your licence, for exceeding the speed limit by 1kph on an empty road at midnight.

As far as the traffic laws are concerned give me Thailand every time, fines/bribes cost me around 200baht/year (£4) and paid without a lecture from some self righteous plod.

Keep bikes off the bloody tollways, is scares the crap out of my in my big truck the way the Thais drive when they are paying for the road.

Strange that you, as a biker, does not feel that bikes should be on the tollways. In Malaysia, not only are bikes allowed, there's actually a special passage for them at the toll plazas as bikes don't have to pay toll charges.

I can understand that it would be dangerous for smaller displacement bikes due to insufficient top speed and power but really, anything from 250 cc and up (except maybe off roaders) can easily cruise at the speed limit and even exceed it if necessary.

[BSJ]

I had to look up "ridiculousness" to see if it was in the dictionary!

One part of me thinks big bikes should be allowed on the motorways but another part of me thinks it could have a serious down side and the rest of me thinks big bikes should be allowed to be in the lane most suitable on a mutli lane hwy.

[H1w4yR1da]

Obviously should change, it makes no sense for a 200 hp motorbike to have to use the left hand lane while a 30 year old rusty pickup that would probably fall apart if it exceeded 80kph can drive wherever it wants.

However, it's quite a nice little earner for the "police" in Bangkok so I'd imagine it will stay.

Does anyone on large cc-high hp bikes ever stop for the police?

[wantan]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

[garryjohns]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

Spot on re home countries (DELETED) here in aus you are monitored cctvs and every snoop device you can think of.

Apart from one 200k section of openspeed limit highway you are really screwed if a couple of k's over speed limits.

You've got it so easy in Thai lucky guys

Edited March 10, 2015 by seedy
language

[AllanB]

Talking about flyovers, I think the same applies to underpasses, certainly the one in the centre of Khon Kaen has a bike ban. One time I followed the rules and went up and over, it was not only hot waiting at the lights,but we got calved up by all the big trucks who are also banned. The choice now is a dangerous route or a safe one, I choose the underpass every time. stuff the law, a 200 baht fine is cheaper than dead. Never been stopped.

And that how Thailand works, do what you think is safe, no one will stop you.

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity. The Thais inexperience,nonchalance and unpredictability really counts at speed.

[manarak]

Let's move this to the Bikes forum since it's about motor cycles rather than the bicycles that live in the Cycling forum.

Although I ride a PCX, I agree entirely with the OP. Technically, big bikes have to stay on the frontage road heading and coming from The Don Muang airport area before you hit the elevated tollway.

Even for bikes having to keep to the left, what if the rider wants to do a right hand or U turn further up the road? When is he/she allowed to move to the right? If he/she is on a busy road, they may not even get the chance to make that right hand or U turn. No other vehicles are going to let the bike out to the right hand lane.

This is just more of the low mentality that keeps Thailand a third world country.

What about the mentality of someone who posts nonsense, as high-lighted above?

Left hand, right hand... so difficult to remember which is which!

Methinks you are the one who is confused.

[manarak]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

Acceleration and top speed, not cc, is what should count.

The 50cc moped has nothing to do on a highway, neither has the vintage 600 cc that can't get it up past 60 Kph anymore due to a damaged engine.

Indeed they should abolish the left lane nonsense for any motorcycles meeting the minimum acceleration and speed.

Reading this thread, I now understand why many Thais on bikes make strange U-turns.

Many wait for all lanes to be free to make their turn into the leftmost lane, crossing all oncoming traffic lanes, which always seemed strange to me in addition of causing long columns of vehicles waiting to do their U-turn.

[Gweiloman]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

Do you really believe what you are posting? Or are you just taking the (DELETED)?

Not sure where you ride but I doubt if you actually are riding in those parts of Thailand that actually has tollways - you know, like in and around Bangkok?

For a biker, there is very little (if any) difference between the road and traffic conditions on a tollway as opposed to a highway / expressway without tolls. The same vehicles (cars, pickups, SUV's, trucks, lorries) traverse these roads. A particular section may be designated a tollway - that only means that there is a toll charge. There is nothing different on these tollways compared to normal highways. Vehicles the same, drivers the same, road conditions the same.

I can understand why some elevated roads and bridges are closed to bikers. The consequence of an accident on such roads will be much higher. Fair enough. To disallow bikes from underpasses is totally ridiculous and symptomatic of Thainess.

Edited March 10, 2015 by seedy
language

[Gweiloman]

Talking about flyovers, I think the same applies to underpasses, certainly the one in the centre of Khon Kaen has a bike ban. One time I followed the rules and went up and over, it was not only hot waiting at the lights,but we got calved up by all the big trucks who are also banned. The choice now is a dangerous route or a safe one, I choose the underpass every time. stuff the law, a 200 baht fine is cheaper than dead. Never been stopped.

And that how Thailand works, do what you think is safe, no one will stop you.

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity. The Thais inexperience,nonchalance and unpredictability really counts at speed.

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity.

I'm curious as to what you consider safe and unsafe tollroads and how this differs from non tolled highways and expressways. After all, the vehicles and drivers are the same. Regardless of speed limits, the drivers are still driving the same speeds be it on a tollway or not. Or do you think that Thai drivers drive one way on a section of a highway that is tolled and drive differently on those sections (of the same highway) that are not tolled?

[Keesters]

Thailand can do what it likes as far as 650cc and over bikes are concerned. But if you get the same rights as cars on where you can drive them then you should also be no noisier than the average car.

[AllanB]

Talking about flyovers, I think the same applies to underpasses, certainly the one in the centre of Khon Kaen has a bike ban. One time I followed the rules and went up and over, it was not only hot waiting at the lights,but we got calved up by all the big trucks who are also banned. The choice now is a dangerous route or a safe one, I choose the underpass every time. stuff the law, a 200 baht fine is cheaper than dead. Never been stopped.

And that how Thailand works, do what you think is safe, no one will stop you.

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity. The Thais inexperience,nonchalance and unpredictability really counts at speed.

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity.

I'm curious as to what you consider safe and unsafe tollroads and how this differs from non tolled highways and expressways. After all, the vehicles and drivers are the same. Regardless of speed limits, the drivers are still driving the same speeds be it on a tollway or not. Or do you think that Thai drivers drive one way on a section of a highway that is tolled and drive differently on those sections (of the same highway) that are not tolled?

Well the last time I was on a toll road it was pitch dark and very busy, headlights all over the place, trucks chasing cars driving at 140-160kph, weaving all over the place, overtaking on both sides, tailgating big time, the lot. I was so glad I was in my big truck where at least these nutters gave me a passing glance, in case they scratched their own vehicles, but even that was a token gesture. Who was drunk, who was on yaba, god only knows, who could even drive?

Now some of you guys are probably pretty good riders, others just think they are, others are not competent at all and most (DELETED) don't even have a bloody license....and you want to put this lot on these roads? Perhaps you think Thai roads are not dangerous enough?

There are no motorway patrols to police any of this, they are all static busy collecting bribe money and will chase no one, as it is too much trouble.

This equality thing is a bit of idealism really, they are not the same, but they are already equal, with a bike you can already cut through traffic jams, so leave the tollroads to the big boys and enjoy the B roads.

Edited March 11, 2015 by seedy
neg. comment Thai people

[wantan]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

Do you really believe what you are posting? Or are you just taking the (DELETED)?

Not sure where you ride but I doubt if you actually are riding in those parts of Thailand that actually has tollways - you know, like in and around Bangkok?

For a biker, there is very little (if any) difference between the road and traffic conditions on a tollway as opposed to a highway / expressway without tolls. The same vehicles (cars, pickups, SUV's, trucks, lorries) traverse these roads. A particular section may be designated a tollway - that only means that there is a toll charge. There is nothing different on these tollways compared to normal highways. Vehicles the same, drivers the same, road conditions the same.

I can understand why some elevated roads and bridges are closed to bikers. The consequence of an accident on such roads will be much higher. Fair enough. To disallow bikes from underpasses is totally ridiculous and symptomatic of Thainess.

Gweilo, i remember there once was a time it was possible to do a discussion with you. It always was difficult but nowadays all you want to do is lecturing and spreading doubts about other posters integrity. And i can see absolutely no relation to the content of my post in your comment.

As i said we already have discussed this topic several times. And its clear that it is a "hot iron" for all "real bikers with big bikes". But things are as they are. If its important for you and you want to change something, than do something other than writing angry posts to people who think its less important. For example make a banner "Free tollways for free bikers", put it on your bike and ride it so people can see it. Or contact ll2, he wanted to contact all important people to make a change happen. Forum talk rarely changes the world.

Edited March 11, 2015 by wantan