Thai soldiers seize alleged redshirt weapon cache from NE temple

[whybother]

I was thinking all the time, where I have seen a similar scenario before.

Suthep- marching through Bangkok, on a route, unknown to anyone before and a "grenade" was thrown at him (well...kind of...more like 100 meters behind him) and ...voila...there is a red shirt- weapons depot, ID cards, red-shirts and all...

Why am I not convinced?

Because this never happened ".there is a red shirt- weapons depot, ID cards, red-shirts and all..." and the grenade was real.

Looks like you are purposefully trying to not be convinced.

Yep...it didn't happen!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/thai-anti-government-protesters-wounded-explosion-bangkok

One of the first articles that pop up, when you google "suthep bangkok march grenade", there is another by BP.

They all said, that there was a stockpile of weapons, linked to reds at first and later totally dis- proven.

The fact, that they backpaddled later, doesn't mean "it didn't happen"!

I can not be arsed to look for it, but I recall the red- shirt memorabilia and the ID card quiet well.

And I am not that old.

All articles relating to that stockpile of weapons only mentions a "red cap" (not a UDD cap, just red in colour). Nothing else "red" is mentioned.

You may not be old, but maybe it's an early onset thing.

[djjamie]

How very convenient that the "Redshirt memorabilia" was found with the weapon-cache!!

stupid red-shirts, they didn't have to do that as the abbot already stated red-shirt groups left the stuff.

And in Thailand the saffron brothers are known for their honesty and integrity!!

You really slot in well to the dangerous ethos of supporters of terrorism making up infinite excuses for the red shirts when they perpetrate violence or denying it was them thus absolving them of their crimes.

You state it was convenient that they left the memorabilia there. It was then highlighted to you as you were blinded by facts that go against your agenda that the monk stated red shirts had left it there.

The excuse evolved now to suit the red shirt lack of culpability. That being Monks are not truthful. I am surprised you didn't state he was a fake monk! I find that excuse quite humorous, but at least you're original. If I was to stand a monk and Jatuporn next to each other I think I would believe the monk first!

Next we might have an article with photos of the red shirts dropping weapons off. Photoshop I guess?

Video of Jatuporn with the weapons?

I can imagine the excuse then.

How very convenient that "Jatuporn" was found with the weapon-cache!!

Until people start to make terrorists accountable instead of making excuses for them the country will never move forward.

Thank you for inadvertently highlighting why reform is needed.

At least if the PTP ever reformed you could be the new "minister for denying" perviously held by Prompong Nopparit.

Edited March 18, 2015 by djjamie

[DM07]

I was thinking all the time, where I have seen a similar scenario before.

Suthep- marching through Bangkok, on a route, unknown to anyone before and a "grenade" was thrown at him (well...kind of...more like 100 meters behind him) and ...voila...there is a red shirt- weapons depot, ID cards, red-shirts and all...

Why am I not convinced?

Because this never happened ".there is a red shirt- weapons depot, ID cards, red-shirts and all..." and the grenade was real.

Looks like you are purposefully trying to not be convinced.

Yep...it didn't happen!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/thai-anti-government-protesters-wounded-explosion-bangkok

One of the first articles that pop up, when you google "suthep bangkok march grenade", there is another by BP.

They all said, that there was a stockpile of weapons, linked to reds at first and later totally dis- proven.

The fact, that they backpaddled later, doesn't mean "it didn't happen"!

I can not be arsed to look for it, but I recall the red- shirt memorabilia and the ID card quiet well.

And I am not that old.

All articles relating to that stockpile of weapons only mentions a "red cap" (not a UDD cap, just red in colour). Nothing else "red" is mentioned.

You may not be old, but maybe it's an early onset thing.

I am looking for articles, more specific...fortunately I have a job, so it may take some time.

But let me ask you: not "a cap", not a "baseball cap"...a "red cap" and that has no implication, whatsoever...right?!

[whybother]

I am looking for articles, more specific...fortunately I have a job, so it may take some time.

But let me ask you: not "a cap", not a "baseball cap"...a "red cap" and that has no implication, whatsoever...right?!

You specifically said "ID cards, red-shirts and all". There were no red shirts. No ID cards. No UDD or "red shirt" paraphernalia. Just a red coloured cap.

[JAG]

You've made some excellent posts over the years and some of the other extreme. But at least you look up facts. Then go and spoil it by claiming "Jatuporn to be a self made man and Nattawut to be representing the shopkeepers of Thailand".

They are groomed, appointed by and serve Thaksin. Remember how Jatuporn got his wealth and all those amulets and artifacts? And wasn't Natuwatt's transport company doing well during the rice pledging scam - moving loads of rice around to mysterious destinations at the dead of night. Who paid for all that?

Weng and Thida - communists. Trained by and still believe. Forget religion - many communists were orthodox or Catholics in countries were those superstitions were strong.

Now, in the UDD can you tell us how these leaders of this democratic umbrella organization were actually elected to their roles?

You enthusiastically support a military junta, which has taken power in an unconstitutional manner, and has appointed a legislative assembly to replace an elected parliament, and you criticise the internal electoral processes of the party which has convincingly won every general election this century. Extraordinary double standards!

And as for this nonsense about rhem being communists, we're getting close to destroying the village in order to save ir" territory

Which general election did the UDD win?

OK, then to avoid pedantry let's call them "Thaksins faction". It doesn't make any difference to the point I'm making. Edited March 18, 2015 by JAG

[whybother]

You've made some excellent posts over the years and some of the other extreme. But at least you look up facts. Then go and spoil it by claiming "Jatuporn to be a self made man and Nattawut to be representing the shopkeepers of Thailand".

They are groomed, appointed by and serve Thaksin. Remember how Jatuporn got his wealth and all those amulets and artifacts? And wasn't Natuwatt's transport company doing well during the rice pledging scam - moving loads of rice around to mysterious destinations at the dead of night. Who paid for all that?

Weng and Thida - communists. Trained by and still believe. Forget religion - many communists were orthodox or Catholics in countries were those superstitions were strong.

Now, in the UDD can you tell us how these leaders of this democratic umbrella organization were actually elected to their roles?

You enthusiastically support a military junta, which has taken power in an unconstitutional manner, and has appointed a legislative assembly to replace an elected parliament, and you criticise the internal electoral processes of the party which has convincingly won every general election this century. Extraordinary double standards!

And as for this nonsense about rhem being communists, we're getting close to destroying the village in order to save ir" territory

Which general election did the UDD win?

OK, then to avoid pedantry let's call them "Thaksins faction". It doesn't make any difference to the point I'm making.

Except that Baerboxer was specifically talking about the UDD, not PTP.

[Baerboxer]

The Red Shirts are not Communists, per se, but they have been brainwashed using Communist techniques and much of their leadership are 'former' Communists.

Brainwashed using communist techniques? Can you cite one reputable security agency that supports that idiotic claim? If you had one iota of understanding of the UDD you would know that it is an umbrella organization that includes many groups with divergent and opposing views. They range from nationalists on the right wing side of the spectrum who want a return to basic values, much like US Republican tea baggers, and the National Front movements in Europe, to progressives who have a social advancement agenda. None of these groups has undergone communist style brainwashing.

The leadership are not former communists. If you keep repeating lies, do you think they become the truth? There are five recognized leading voices in the UDD.

Veera Musikapong: Former spokesman of Prime Minister Pramoj Seni Pramoj, Deputy Minister of Agriculture, of Communications, and of Interior under General Prem, secretary general of the Democrat Party, executive member of the TRT and MP. Hardly the CV of a commie.

Jatuporn Prompan: Of humble origin, he is a self made man, having worked his way through vocational school and then university. He is the working man's MP. In the UK he would be considered Labour Party, in Canada New Democratic party, in the EU social democrat. Only in the screwed up world of loonie right-wingers would he be considered a commie.

Nattawut Saikua - former MP and cabinet member. He comes from a middle class family. He is Mr. Small business representing the shopkeepers class of thailand. He was ridiculed for his capitalist ways by the opposition when he was recording singing a jingle for a retail chain.

Weng Tojirakam: The only one who could be labeled a commie, even though he was not. He is a product of a poor family who sent him to the elitist Mahidol University and was the secretary-general of the Medical Students Centre of Thailand. He was part of the anti facist protests in the early 1970's including the resistance to the Thammasat University massacre. He was forced to flee for his life. Having nowhere from which to continue the fight for freedom, he joined the communists. He was hardly a communist as he is devout Buddhist and communism does not allow for religion. If anything he is a religious fundamentalist filled with the same fervour and zeal that drives evangelicals. He was no more a communist than the brave heroes that enlisted to fight Franco's right wing overthrow of the Spanish Republic in the 1930's.

So yes, please tell me again where the commies are.

You've made some excellent posts over the years and some of the other extreme. But at least you look up facts. Then go and spoil it by claiming "Jatuporn to be a self made man and Nattawut to be representing the shopkeepers of Thailand".

They are groomed, appointed by and serve Thaksin. Remember how Jatuporn got his wealth and all those amulets and artifacts? And wasn't Natuwatt's transport company doing well during the rice pledging scam - moving loads of rice around to mysterious destinations at the dead of night. Who paid for all that?

Weng and Thida - communists. Trained by and still believe. Forget religion - many communists were orthodox or Catholics in countries were those superstitions were strong.

Now, in the UDD can you tell us how these leaders of this democratic umbrella organization were actually elected to their roles?

You enthusiastically support a military junta, which has taken power in an unconstitutional manner, and has appointed a legislative assembly to replace an elected parliament, and you criticise the internal electoral processes of the party which has convincingly won every general election this century. Extraordinary double standards!

And as for this nonsense about rhem being communists, we're getting close to destroying the village in order to save ir" territory

I support real democracy, real law and order and real justice for all. None of which Thailand would ever have when under the control of a non elected criminal fugitive. Or do you really think his little sister and his appointed cabinet were running things democratically and legally? Breaking the law is not excused just because you were elected before you broke it.

The UDD has never won an election as it's not a political party but an umbrella organization. I don't support umbrella organizations with self appointed, or appointed by a criminal, leaders that uses violence and intimidation.

BTW these leaders were appointed by Thaksin, not via any form of democratic process. Thaksin decides UDD do.

Weng and Thida were communists and received training whilst in exile. Fact. Not your usual Shin propaganda nonsense.

[AleG]

Because this never happened ".there is a red shirt- weapons depot, ID cards, red-shirts and all..." and the grenade was real.

Looks like you are purposefully trying to not be convinced.

Yep...it didn't happen!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/thai-anti-government-protesters-wounded-explosion-bangkok

One of the first articles that pop up, when you google "suthep bangkok march grenade", there is another by BP.

They all said, that there was a stockpile of weapons, linked to reds at first and later totally dis- proven.

The fact, that they backpaddled later, doesn't mean "it didn't happen"!

I can not be arsed to look for it, but I recall the red- shirt memorabilia and the ID card quiet well.

And I am not that old.

The fact that it didn't happen means it didn't happen, you are tying yourself up in knots.

The "weapons" were parts for BB guns, the red-shirt memorabilia was nothing but a cap with a non Red-Shirt related red logo on it and there was no ID card related to the Red Shirts at all.

You were wrong, stop muddling the public record with things that never happened, maybe then you, and other people wouldn't find it so hard to make sense of the world.

[AleG]

17 year old drug dealers in phuket are caught everyday with bigger explosive caches than that. Its all about the propaganda just like I said in the beginning. Some of you guys will believe anything.

My, how things have changed since 2010.

Then it was Red Shirts "Peaceful protesters, not terrorists", now things have gone so far downhill that their own apologists say : Red Shirts, not worse than armed drug dealers.

[tbthailand]

What silliness.

The cache consisted of two shotguns, four BB guns, one handgun, one homemade "pen gun," one hand grenade, one rifle, and over a hundred bullets for the firearms, Sadly, there are many people in Thailand who have actual arsenals in their businesses and homes. This is hardly an arms cache. It makes for a nice headline, but if you stop some of the local business men in Phuket, you find significantly more lethal weapons.

​BTW no mention if the weaponry was functional or illegal.

it was the first thing I thought of when I read the list of weapons...

thanks for pointing out the obvious (it's evidently not obvious for some posters...)

[rametindallas]

The Red Shirts are not Communists, per se, but they have been brainwashed using Communist techniques and much of their leadership are 'former' Communists.

Brainwashed using communist techniques? Can you cite one reputable security agency that supports that idiotic claim? If you had one iota of understanding of the UDD you would know that it is an umbrella organization that includes many groups with divergent and opposing views. They range from nationalists on the right wing side of the spectrum who want a return to basic values, much like US Republican tea baggers, and the National Front movements in Europe, to progressives who have a social advancement agenda. None of these groups has undergone communist style brainwashing.

The leadership are not former communists. If you keep repeating lies, do you think they become the truth? There are five recognized leading voices in the UDD.

Veera Musikapong: Former spokesman of Prime Minister Pramoj Seni Pramoj, Deputy Minister of Agriculture, of Communications, and of Interior under General Prem, secretary general of the Democrat Party, executive member of the TRT and MP. Hardly the CV of a commie.

Jatuporn Prompan: Of humble origin, he is a self made man, having worked his way through vocational school and then university. He is the working man's MP. In the UK he would be considered Labour Party, in Canada New Democratic party, in the EU social democrat. Only in the screwed up world of loonie right-wingers would he be considered a commie.

Nattawut Saikua - former MP and cabinet member. He comes from a middle class family. He is Mr. Small business representing the shopkeepers class of thailand. He was ridiculed for his capitalist ways by the opposition when he was recording singing a jingle for a retail chain.

Weng Tojirakam: The only one who could be labeled a commie, even though he was not. He is a product of a poor family who sent him to the elitist Mahidol University and was the secretary-general of the Medical Students Centre of Thailand. He was part of the anti facist protests in the early 1970's including the resistance to the Thammasat University massacre. He was forced to flee for his life. Having nowhere from which to continue the fight for freedom, he joined the communists. He was hardly a communist as he is devout Buddhist and communism does not allow for religion. If anything he is a religious fundamentalist filled with the same fervour and zeal that drives evangelicals. He was no more a communist than the brave heroes that enlisted to fight Franco's right wing overthrow of the Spanish Republic in the 1930's.

So yes, please tell me again where the commies are.

At the root of this protest is fugitive ex-prime minister, Thaksin Shinwatra... During his premiership, he began to consolidate his power through the creation of a rurally based political machine... Behind the scenes, there was community “organizing” taking place to create what would later become the infamous “red shirts.”... classical Maoist techniques were used to program the “red shirt” army... “Many of them [red shirts] are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don’t need a program – they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional – as it was designed to be,”... After his ouster in 2006, he began employing his Moaist led, Marxist indoctrinated mob simply called the “red shirts.” Officially they are called the UDD or the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship... an insidious, engineered wave of violence meant to empty out Thailand’s upper and middle class, and roll the nation over into a fascist dictatorship “republic” under Thaksin Shinwatra and his globalist handlers...

http://www.infowars.com/thailands-thaksin-shinwatra-marxists-and-the-nwo/

Avowed Communists: Thida Thavornseth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thida_Thavornseth Weng Tojirakarn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weng_Tojirakarn

Red shirt intelligentsia Giles "Jai" Ungpakorn gives us further insight into the "alternative system" the red shirt movement under Thaksin plans to usher in. Ungpakorn is a self-confessed Marxist

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/04/warning-signs-over-old-siam.html

So yes, please tell me again where the commies are

They fill the ranks of the leadership of the UDD

Edited March 18, 2015 by rametindallas

[rametindallas]

No not this stupid communist thing again....why dont we just call the country of Thailand communist after all, it is suppose to be a sufficiency type country. Geese dude give this crap a break. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Don't be stupid. Thailand is not and never will be Communist. The Royal Thai Army will assure that fact and Thai people are free market freebooters. Thaksin employed Communists to organize/brainwash his UDD forces but he, also, is not Communist. The Communists have been used but will never be allowed power in Thailand. You are in such a fog as to the who the players are and what they are doing, that I suggest you educate yourself before making further posts.

[2fishin2]

No not this stupid communist thing again....why dont we just call the country of Thailand communist after all, it is suppose to be a sufficiency type country. Geese dude give this crap a break. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Don't be stupid. Thailand is not and never will be Communist. The Royal Thai Army will assure that fact and Thai people are free market freebooters. Thaksin employed Communists to organize/brainwash his UDD forces but he, also, is not Communist. The Communists have been used but will never be allowed power in Thailand. You are in such a fog as to the who the players are and what they are doing, that I suggest you educate yourself before making further posts.

The Thai Communist Party died with the cold war. There is no such thing anymore.

[rubl]

No not this stupid communist thing again....why dont we just call the country of Thailand communist after all, it is suppose to be a sufficiency type country. Geese dude give this crap a break. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Don't be stupid. Thailand is not and never will be Communist. The Royal Thai Army will assure that fact and Thai people are free market freebooters. Thaksin employed Communists to organize/brainwash his UDD forces but he, also, is not Communist. The Communists have been used but will never be allowed power in Thailand. You are in such a fog as to the who the players are and what they are doing, that I suggest you educate yourself before making further posts.

The Thai Communist Party died with the cold war. There is no such thing anymore.

The Cold War wasn't dead yet when the remaining TCP leadership was granted amnesty. A few of that leadership are now UDD co-leaders, Ms. Thida, Dr. weng being two of them. They studied in Vietnam, learned about how you need a political arm and a shady militant arm and how to keep them apart to have 'credible deniability'.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts, inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[Wombat6]

"The cache consisted of two shotguns, four BB guns, one handgun, one homemade "pen gun," one hand grenade, one rifle, and over a hundred bullets for the firearms, said Maj.Gen. Adisorn."

In my home country we have far more than this legally in private homes. It makes the govt. think twice before attempting a coup. In fact, we've never had one.

This was in my opinion a truly pathetic seizure.

And who would the Govt. possibly be thinking of having a coup against ?? Themselves ?? A truly pathetic post (in my opinion)

[phoenixdoglover]

A poster above actually used a link to the "infowars" web site.

I would like to point out to those perhaps not familiar - in its country of origin, the US, "infowars" is considered to be a hotbed of misinformation, hyperbole, and various paranoid conspiracy theories. Other than that, it is a wonderful source. Unless you want credibility.

[tbthailand]

communists...

former CPT members are to be found on both sides of the current political divide. It's a red herring.

[jdinasia]

communists...

former CPT members are to be found on both sides of the current political divide. It's a red herring.

There are former CPT in the army? Did they also travel to Vietnam for training on how to run an insurgency?

[phoenixdoglover]

This particular arms seizure is not very impressive. And once again the press is being spoon fed information by the military and police, so it's prudent to be skeptical.

However, everyone should remember one of the major justifications for the coup was the supposed threat of imminent armed conflict. To demonstrate this, the military went to great lengths to show how military grade weapons were being held by potential "terrorists" or red-shirt activists.

In the news from late June 2014:

"On Sunday, Thai authorities displayed rifles, grenades and bullet-proof vests collected in raids during a press conference at the army headquarters in Bangkok.

A total of 1,996 guns, 31,840 rounds of ammunition and 256 explosive devices were seized between 22 May and 25 June in operations which also led to the arrest of 38 people, said Thailand's Peace and Order Maintaining Task Force in a statement."

And a photo opportunity was provided, with many items like this displayed on tables. Military attaches from other countries were invited to the display.

So all very scary, right? The military guys were vindicated in their concerns....hurrah for the NCPO.

Except, when you find out how this collection of weapons was acquired by the military. Read on:

"The majority of the arms seized were handed in by people in the central and northeast provinces after a military call for illegal weapons, according to junta spokesman Werachon Sukondhapatipak."

Ahhhhhh. Evidence of a potential military insurrection is created by issuing a call for people to turn in illegal items, these items are turned in by untold numbers of people voluntarily (in a country with 67 million people), and then the items are all displayed together.

Because, as we all know, people planning armed insurrection are the same law-abiding types who will just turn in their weapons when the army asks them to. I understand drug dealers will also do that with their stocks of yaba, pills, and heroin.

The alternative possibility, that the people who had this stuff just wanted to get rid of it in a responsible fashion, and saw the military call as a way to do that?

No, that cant be.

[sarcasm off]

[NeverSure]

"The cache consisted of two shotguns, four BB guns, one handgun, one homemade "pen gun," one hand grenade, one rifle, and over a hundred bullets for the firearms, said Maj.Gen. Adisorn."

In my home country we have far more than this legally in private homes. It makes the govt. think twice before attempting a coup. In fact, we've never had one.

This was in my opinion a truly pathetic seizure.

Not true. Private citizens in the US cannot legally own live grenades.

No, just any number of four pound jugs of Unique Brand pistol powder and a pressure cooker. All legal.