Retirement Visa in Chiangmai. I'm trapped in vicious overstay cycle.

[Leonardo Madison]

I debated whether to admit my failure publicly; however, after paying immigration 40,000฿ + in overstay fees, it's time to decide whether retiring in Thailand is worth it.

In the past, I've used private Thai agencies to process my retirement visa. Reading all the documentation about applying for retirement visa. It should be simple, but there's unknown obstacles preventing me from moving forward. I've tried for 1 year to apply and receive the official visa. I've failed.

I've always reported to Chiangmai immigration. I always telling the clerks at stations 1 & 2, I need to apply for retirement visa. the clerks staple a note . . . this note does mean anything . . . but you been to report after 90 days. Eventually, the immigration clerk will say . . . . You must leave Thailand immediately because I have overstayed. It becomes an expensive cycle. 20,000฿ ++

The immigration office in Chiangmai once was a simple friendly place. Now the staff is overwhelmed with tourist. Perhaps, paying ThaiVisa to process my retirement visa application.

I'm university educated. This simple process like many processes here in Thailand eludes me. I say to myself . . . what happened?

I really love Chiangmai and enjoy living here. I'm not an alcoholic nor abuse drugs. It's my responsibility to follow the Thai immigration laws and procedures. Unfortunately, I'm still dumbfounded . . .

[Jingthing]

Sorry to hear about your issues.

Why not start from the beginning and perhaps with the help of the gurus here you can get this sorted.

It's not clear what your specific problem is from your OP.

So to start, are you financially qualified for retirement extensions in one of the three ways?

800K in a Thai bank (OR)

Monthly income of 65K baht (OR)

a combination of Thai bank funds and income totaling at least 800K ?

If so, which one, and then we can start to get into details.

If not, that's another story, and there probably isn't help for that here.

Also ... are you in Thailand now?

On what legal permission in your passport?

Knowing that, with info about your financials, and a plan can be set to get a new retirement extension.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[balo]

I think he said he used a visa agent , so he probably paid them for a retirement visa, that would cost around 20k +

But the rest of the story I'm not sure about....

[nzexpat]

Jinthing

You are correct to challenge the OP on the basics of qualifying for an extension of stay .

The OP also fails to disclose the basis on which he is currently staying in Thailand.

I suspect the admission of using "private Thai agencies " to obtain "visas" is telling as is the claim of failure to secure an "official visa"

[Leonardo Madison]

My single story is not about being qualified for retirement visa, I meet the requirements for retirement visa. It's more about getting to the appropriate immigration office to process the retirement visa.

[Jingthing]

My single story is not about being qualified for retirement visa, I meet the requirements for retirement visa. It's more about getting to the appropriate immigration office to process the retirement visa.

If you are financially qualified, then there is no reason this can't be done.

Please answer my questions if you are really seeking concrete help here.

Concrete help is available here, for free.

If you aren't willing to share your details or get help somewhere outside the forum for your now mysterious problems ... maybe your negative conclusions are correct, that this isn't going to work for you.

[Maestro]

There is no such thing as a retirement visa. Post a scanned copy of what you have in your passport and somebody can tell you what you have.

[Jessi]

What jingthing said.

Put all of the details on here then people MIGHT be able to help you.

[Jingthing]

He clearly is talking about annual retirement extensions done in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

Unless he has a non immigrant visa entry he cannot apply for an extension of stay based upon retirement,

If he has been asking CM immigration for a visa he certainly has been told they cannot do it,

He needs to either apply for a conversion in Bangkok (2 trips 15 days apart) or go out to Vientiane for a single entry non-o visa.

[moe666]

Is the op over 50 he hasn't said, Over 50 800,000baht in Thai bankor 65,000baht income, or combination of both now the really hard part fill out the proper paper work make copies of passport go to immigration office at 0600 hours and by the way have a non-o visa or already be on a extension of stay.

[glegolo]

My single story is not about being qualified for retirement visa, I meet the requirements for retirement visa. It's more about getting to the appropriate immigration office to process the retirement visa.

No you are wrong... it is more about for you to learn the process and not to be so damn lazy!! Everybody among us have to learn... It has nothing to do about being schooled in a university,, you need to step up instead of paying your way out of everything.

Take notice for once of what the guys are suggesting here and learn..

Glegolo

[StefanBBK]

I don't understand how 40 k overstay is possible. Wasn't the max fine 20 k ?

[StefanBBK]

What stamp do you have in your Passport?

[NanLaew]

I don't understand how 40 k overstay is possible. Wasn't the max fine 20 k ?

20k last year and 20k this year?

Is the OP paying these fines and NOT leaving the country?

Someone's gravy train?

I would hazard that there's probably a few thousand foreigners that happily file proper retirement extensions in Chiang Mai. No reason for the OP to be left out but as asked several times before, he does need to clarify exactly what stamp in his passport in enabling his current sojourn.

[NancyL]

Living in Chiang Mai, I think I can appreciate some of what the OP is up against. He's not going to find help at the CM Immigration office. None of the staff there is going to take the time to carefully explain what he has to do, in clear understandable terms and patiently guide him thru the process. It's a heaving mass of humanity from 5 am until 7 pm and the best they can do when people ask questions is to give someone about 30 seconds of attention.

If he truly meets the basic requirements in order to obtain a retirement visa -- ie. over age 50 and has a monthly income of more than 65,000 baht and/or a bank account in Thailand, solely in his name, of 800,000 baht (or a combination), then I suggest he secure the services of one of the two most reputable visa agents in town -- OS Thai Visa or Assist Thai Visa. They have staff who will patiently guide him thru the process, including conversion to an O-visa in Bangkok or Vientiane if needed. They won't take his case if he really isn't qualified. Once he has his visa and 12-month retirement extension, I suggest he continue to pay them their rather modest annual fee (about 6000 baht) for them to file his 90 day reports and to handle all the details for his annual 12-month extension. This way, he only has to go to the CM Immigration office once a year, and they'll tell him when and where to show up. They'll probably even give him a ride to the office. (Note: their initial fee will be higher than 6000 baht to straighten out the mess he's in)

OS Thai Visa is located on one of the sois off Nimmanheiman It's run by a Thai lady who lived in Australia for many years and her daughter. Very capable. http://osthaivisa.com/

Assist Thai Visa is located in Chiang Mai Land on the other side of town. It's run by a Welch lawyer and his Thai wife, a lawyer. http://www.assistthaivisa.com/

Edited March 29, 2015 by NancyL

[KittenKong]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

[NancyL]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

It's not quite that easy. He needs to get a 90-day O visa, not a tourist visa, not a visa-exempt entry stamp. And in order to apply for a retirement extension he need to have either bank account (and documentation) or income letter from an Embassy/Consulate. Plus he has to show up at 5 am at CM Immigration to get in line for a queue number.

I suspect he's coming into the office at their official opening time and expecting to get help in filling out the forms and having someone explain what other documents he needs to bring. The Immigration staff at CM doesn't do hand-holding.

Edited March 29, 2015 by NancyL

[ubonjoe]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

What is a short visa? I have never heard of one.

Unless that short visa is a non immigrant visa he will not be able to apply for an extension.

[KittenKong]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

What is a short visa? I have never heard of one.

Unless that short visa is a non immigrant visa he will not be able to apply for an extension.

Short as in "90 day". I thought those could be used for a retirement extension? I did mine based on that, but things could have changed.

In fact I thought there was some process in place for turning an even shorter tourist visa into a visa suitable for extension.

[KittenKong]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

It's not quite that easy. He needs to get a 90-day O visa, not a tourist visa, not a visa-exempt entry stamp. And in order to apply for a retirement extension he need to have either bank account (and documentation) or income letter from an Embassy/Consulate. Plus he has to show up at 5 am at CM Immigration to get in line for a queue number.

I suspect he's coming into the office at their official opening time and expecting to get help in filling out the forms and having someone explain what other documents he needs to bring. The Immigration staff at CM doesn't do hand-holding.

Clearly dealing with immigration is harder in Chiang Mai than it is in Jomtien. But there's not much to be done about that, unless he fancies moving.

Either way, short of getting some agent to pay immigration for "facilitation" it seems like he's going to have to bite the bullet and do the correct procedure.

He should not have too much trouble getting a 90-day visa suitable for extension, unless his long overstay is held against him.

[ubonjoe]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

What is a short visa? I have never heard of one.

Unless that short visa is a non immigrant visa he will not be able to apply for an extension.

Short as in "90 day". I thought those could be used for a retirement extension? I did mine based on that, but things could have changed.

In fact I thought there was some process in place for turning an even shorter tourist visa into a visa suitable for extension.

I wrote previously that he needed to go out for a single entry non-o visa.

I also wrote he would have to go to Bangkok to do a conversion to a non immigrant visa if he did not get the non-o visa.

[NancyL]

The two visa agents I recommended don't do any "facilitation" in the sense of paying bribes or doing anything illegal. All they're going to do is hand-holding, which may be all the OP needs to deal with the madhouse that is the CM Immigration office. And until he returns to this thread and answers a few questions, we're just spinning our wheels.

Edited March 29, 2015 by NancyL

[Liquorice]

I'm reading between the lines here, but it sounds like the OP has previously had two extensions of stay through an agent.

He is attempting to get another extension without using an agent, but he is asking CM Immigration for a 'Retirement Visa' instead of an extension based on retirement.

A little personal guidance from a helpful expat in CM may be all he needs.

Correct form, correct documents, etc.

Question is what Visa is he holding now?

[philw]

Living in Chiang Mai, I think I can appreciate some of what the OP is up against. He's not going to find help at the CM Immigration office. None of the staff there is going to take the time to carefully explain what he has to do, in clear understandable terms and patiently guide him thru the process. It's a heaving mass of humanity from 5 am until 7 pm and the best they can do when people ask questions is to give someone about 30 seconds of attention.

If he truly meets the basic requirements in order to obtain a retirement visa -- ie. over age 50 and has a monthly income of more than 65,000 baht and/or a bank account in Thailand, solely in his name, of 800,000 baht (or a combination), then I suggest he secure the services of one of the two most reputable visa agents in town -- OS Thai Visa or Assist Thai Visa. They have staff who will patiently guide him thru the process, including conversion to an O-visa in Bangkok or Vientiane if needed. They won't take his case if he really isn't qualified. Once he has his visa and 12-month retirement extension, I suggest he continue to pay them their rather modest annual fee (about 6000 baht) for them to file his 90 day reports and to handle all the details for his annual 12-month extension. This way, he only has to go to the CM Immigration office once a year, and they'll tell him when and where to show up. They'll probably even give him a ride to the office. (Note: their initial fee will be higher than 6000 baht to straighten out the mess he's in)

OS Thai Visa is located on one of the sois off Nimmanheiman It's run by a Thai lady who lived in Australia for many years and her daughter. Very capable. http://osthaivisa.com/

Assist Thai Visa is located in Chiang Mai Land on the other side of town. It's run by a Welch lawyer and his Thai wife, a lawyer. http://www.assistthaivisa.com/

Welsh

[moe666]

Pay the fine. Leave the country. Get a short visa. Come back to Thailand. Go to immigration. Apply for a retirement extension to your short visa.

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

It's not quite that easy. He needs to get a 90-day O visa, not a tourist visa, not a visa-exempt entry stamp. And in order to apply for a retirement extension he need to have either bank account (and documentation) or income letter from an Embassy/Consulate. Plus he has to show up at 5 am at CM Immigration to get in line for a queue number.

I suspect he's coming into the office at their official opening time and expecting to get help in filling out the forms and having someone explain what other documents he needs to bring. The Immigration staff at CM doesn't do hand-holding.

Clearly dealing with immigration is harder in Chiang Mai than it is in Jomtien. But there's not much to be done about that, unless he fancies moving.

Either way, short of getting some agent to pay immigration for "facilitation" it seems like he's going to have to bite the bullet and do the correct procedure.

He should not have too much trouble getting a 90-day visa suitable for extension, unless his long overstay is held against him.

It is no harder to deal with immigration inChiang Mai then any where else if you are prepared and have your act together. Yes it can appear to be a mad house but it still all boils down to being prepared. It will take longer because of the sheer number of peope but that doesn't mean it is harder just longer, yes I have gotten extension of stays at CM and know the process. Ipersonally think the OP is a troll.

[Paul888]

Great post from Nancy L. Not only gives the OP the exact info he needs and recommendations of people that can help him, but also supports that Chiang Mai Immigration is too busy to be helpful.

When you are used to dealing with very helpful, patient Immigration offices (like the new one in Chiang Rai for example), it puts things into perspective about how the process can seem daunting first time around.

[NancyL]

Great post from Nancy L. Not only gives the OP the exact info he needs and recommendations of people that can help him, but also supports that Chiang Mai Immigration is too busy to be helpful.

When you are used to dealing with very helpful, patient Immigration offices (like the new one in Chiang Rai for example), it puts things into perspective about how the process can seem daunting first time around.

Yes, I have seen elderly people go on overstay here in Chiang Mai simply because they are confused and think they are told something by an Immigration officer in a hurry.

For example, one elderly woman I know went to CM Immigration to do her 90 day report. However, a helpful Immigration officer noticed that her 12-month extension was soon to expire and, furthermore her passport had less than a year's validity. So the Immigration officer told her to go to her Consulate to get a new passport and then return to "renew her visa". This put the elderly lady in a panic because she thought all she had to do was 90 day reports -- ad infinitum. Somehow she'd forgotten about the process of annual extensions. So she went to her consulate, requesting a "new visa" You know what the result of that request was. And no one at the consulate noticed her passport was going to expire in 7 months -- they just told her to go to back to Immigration.

Long story short, she is now on overstay.

Yes, sometimes a fellow expat or forums like this can explain the process to people, especially newbies. But, there also comes a point in some people's lives when they just need professional help. Or some people just need professional help from the very beginning. It's very reasonably priced in Chiang Mai. Personally, I don't use visa agents, and many people can figure out what to do on their own. But if the OP has tried and failed twice to get a retirement visa, then maybe it's time to seek professional assistance.

Edited March 29, 2015 by NancyL

[Jingthing]

I think there are great resources to help this OP. Here or outside. But if he wants specific help here he does need to spill the beans on the exact nature of his specific situation. As he hasn't, we're all just guessing with very little to go on.

[paz]

Great post from Nancy L. Not only gives the OP the exact info he needs and recommendations of people that can help him, but also supports that Chiang Mai Immigration is too busy to be helpful.

NancyL is a great asset to the forum and even more to the community where she volunteers. I would be glad to help if residing there, or should do the same in other areas. But in the case of the OP I'm not sure on which side the difficulties are.