Most Thais back new charter: CDC chief

[jayboy]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

I beg to differ.

Yingluck's administration was voted for by the people of Thailand in the full knowledge that Thaksin would be very influential.Internationally accepted.

The Junta seized power in a criminal act( for which a pardon was subsequently arranged), was voted for by nobody and cannot be voted out.Only grudging international acceptance.

Not really much room for debate which represents the greater distortion of democracy.

Edited March 29, 2015 by jayboy

[jacky54]

nobody i know has even heard of it

[jamesjohnsonthird]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

[wandasloan]

If I had to choose between having a civil war (personal vendetta with paid stooges/mercenaries)in Bangkok and an unwritten charter with unknown content. I would take the charter any day.

Sure.

What if the choice is whether to have a mystery constitution AND having a civil war?

In what way would a mysterious constitution prevent a civil war. And why should Thailand be unique in not having a civil war or wars? It's rather amazing it has never had one, really. I can't immediately think of another country that hasn't.

[djjamie]

They backed the previous constitution too.

When looking at the results the majority voted for it. Not the majority in the north of course. Up to 80% in the North voted against that constitution.

Funny thing is if this constitution is passed with out anyone voting for it it will be dismissed as "Not the peoples constitution" If it is passed with people voting for it it will be dismissed as a "A forced vote"

The majority will again be disrespected by 7% of the population who instead of representing the majority speak on behalf of it.

No wonder reform is needed.

Edited March 29, 2015 by djjamie

[rubl]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

Actually Thaksin was out, in New York to be precise. He was allowed to return, but seeing providing lunch boxes didn't have the right effect choose to jump bail. Other cases await his return. The most blatant case regarding corruption seems the one of having 'his' government provide Myanmar with a nice 2 billion Baht loan to buy services from his private company.

No wonder democracy lovers here on TVF want him back. Less and less Thai though. It seems that more are starting to realise that MOST politicians have their own interest in mind rather than that of the nation or population.

Not sure what form the final draft charter will have, but if it manages to keep proxies and cheats out that's a big step already.

[djjamie]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

Actually Thaksin was out, in New York to be precise. He was allowed to return, but seeing providing lunch boxes didn't have the right effect choose to jump bail. Other cases await his return. The most blatant case regarding corruption seems the one of having 'his' government provide Myanmar with a nice 2 billion Baht loan to buy services from his private company.

No wonder democracy lovers here on TVF want him back. Less and less Thai though. It seems that more are starting to realise that MOST politicians have their own interest in mind rather than that of the nation or population.

Not sure what form the final draft charter will have, but if it manages to keep proxies and cheats out that's a big step already.

To clarify this, thaksin was in NY bypassing parliament and the senate to push a free trade agreement with America.

To reiterate, he was bypassing democracy to further his personal interests.

Democracy being the cornerstone of what the PTP do not stand for..

Yes, yes elections…..1 principle does not count when there are 14 other principles though.

Edited March 29, 2015 by djjamie

[rubl]

If I had to choose between having a civil war (personal vendetta with paid stooges/mercenaries)in Bangkok and an unwritten charter with unknown content. I would take the charter any day.

Sure.

What if the choice is whether to have a mystery constitution AND having a civil war?

In what way would a mysterious constitution prevent a civil war. And why should Thailand be unique in not having a civil war or wars? It's rather amazing it has never had one, really. I can't immediately think of another country that hasn't.

A bit off topic, but what would be your definition of civil war? Obviously all try to ignore the 'troubles' down South.

[jamesjohnsonthird]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

Actually Thaksin was out, in New York to be precise. He was allowed to return, but seeing providing lunch boxes didn't have the right effect choose to jump bail. Other cases await his return. The most blatant case regarding corruption seems the one of having 'his' government provide Myanmar with a nice 2 billion Baht loan to buy services from his private company.

No wonder democracy lovers here on TVF want him back. Less and less Thai though. It seems that more are starting to realise that MOST politicians have their own interest in mind rather than that of the nation or population.

Not sure what form the final draft charter will have, but if it manages to keep proxies and cheats out that's a big step already.

Right. A stacked court was used convict him and harass every election winner since 2000. Landslide after landslide the courts, yellow mobs or Army overturn.

Sore losers that can't face the reality.

[rubl]

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

Actually Thaksin was out, in New York to be precise. He was allowed to return, but seeing providing lunch boxes didn't have the right effect choose to jump bail. Other cases await his return. The most blatant case regarding corruption seems the one of having 'his' government provide Myanmar with a nice 2 billion Baht loan to buy services from his private company.

No wonder democracy lovers here on TVF want him back. Less and less Thai though. It seems that more are starting to realise that MOST politicians have their own interest in mind rather than that of the nation or population.

Not sure what form the final draft charter will have, but if it manages to keep proxies and cheats out that's a big step already.

Right. A stacked court was used convict him and harass every election winner since 2000. Landslide after landslide the courts, yellow mobs or Army overturn.

Sore losers that can't face the reality.

and history gets rewritten again. Democracy thought of as 'elections only', 'we respect your vote till it is counted' and so.

Anytime a court rules against a Shinawatra, relatives, Pheu Thai members or UDD guys it is obviously biased, stacked (no, not with pretties) and every time one of those gets a case 'for' won, or 'against' dropped it's justice, the courts had no choice, etc., etc.

Oh, talking about losers, those are the Thai population who start to get very sore and fed up with politicians squandering away money leaving common people in debt.

Edited March 29, 2015 by rubl

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

"......people will have the chance to vote and choose who they would like to have as the top candidates on the party list."

How and When? In Thailand, the party list has been the vehicle for abuse of the electoral system, to allow the rich and power hungry to attain high office, to install unelectable scum like Chalerm, and to reward criminals for their crimes and help them defer/evade the courts. The only modification needed is to scrap it.

BTW why aren't the criminal cases against former PTP MPs and the other low-life "red leaders" proceeding? Their immunity from prosecution expired some time ago.

You forgot to mention Yingluck - she was imposed upon the people (not elected notice) as PM despite having zero experience.

I wonder what role was mapped out for her when HE put her there?? No conflict of interest when he needed her to go all out for his amnesty, was there!!

Forget about the people of Thailand, you are working for me now. She did a sterling job in this respect.

No she was not imposed she was elected and maintained positive ratings to the end. I think you are confused the junta are imposed on the people as well as their new laws and constitution.

[rubl]

"......people will have the chance to vote and choose who they would like to have as the top candidates on the party list."

How and When? In Thailand, the party list has been the vehicle for abuse of the electoral system, to allow the rich and power hungry to attain high office, to install unelectable scum like Chalerm, and to reward criminals for their crimes and help them defer/evade the courts. The only modification needed is to scrap it.

BTW why aren't the criminal cases against former PTP MPs and the other low-life "red leaders" proceeding? Their immunity from prosecution expired some time ago.

You forgot to mention Yingluck - she was imposed upon the people (not elected notice) as PM despite having zero experience.

I wonder what role was mapped out for her when HE put her there?? No conflict of interest when he needed her to go all out for his amnesty, was there!!

Forget about the people of Thailand, you are working for me now. She did a sterling job in this respect.

No she was not imposed she was elected and maintained positive ratings to the end. I think you are confused the junta are imposed on the people as well as their new laws and constitution.

True, so true. Thaksin said so himself.

[greenchair]

Well, I must be talking to the uneducated 30% then. So far I have not spoken to one who is at all happy about all this.

Many of them pdrc supporters included.

The good parts are smoke and mirrors. The Thai know it.

[Tonawatchee]

Most Thais, in the CDC wonderland, back the charter.

[phoenixdoglover]

"He said more surveys would be conducted on issues the respondents did not agree with, but he did not elaborate on them."

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

[Emster23]

"urges people not to be paranoid about an unelected PM"

Paranoia: a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance

Doesn't fit: these aren't delusions... people are being persecuted for reading books, putting fingers together in Boy Scout salute...

"exaggerated self importance" may fit if Thai people think they somehow are taken into consideration regarding plans of the mutant elite

Jealousy is part of Thainess as far as I can see...

[Srikcir]

"... wherein people from each major profession decide who from their profession should represent them as senators."

Do the poor qualify as a profession?

Do nonBuddhist religious faiths qualify as a profession?
Do the uneducated qualify as a profession?

Do the stateless qualify as a profession?

Do human trafficked people qualify as a profession?

Do civilians qualify as a profession?

Do politicians qualify as a profession?

The questions are neverending on the stupidification of the draft charter.

[Neeranam]

Most Thais have been indoctrinated with obeisance when they were young. This brainwashing is will be hard to change in our lifetimes and probably our kids.

[elgordo38]

Preposterous survey claim. Out and out Thai deceit to have the nation believe the results of these artificial surveys that pander to the current unelected government.

What was that comment that H.C. Fields made about every day.? Svengali type of statement for sure.

[retsdon]

Most Thais have been indoctrinated with obeisance when they were young. This brainwashing is will be hard to change in our lifetimes and probably our kids.

It's hardwired into the national psyche. Look at the language. In Thai there is a whole plethora of personal pronouns, the purpose of which is to convey or recognize the relative social status and power of the interlocutors. In English we simply don't make those distinctions. Conversely, in English we utilize a whole range of sophisticated grammatical devices to express possibility, hypothesis, timescale, etc, and we do so unthinkingly all the time. In Thai, no such structures exist. What that tells us is that in Thai, it's most important to recognize who it is you're speaking to. In English or other European languages, the most important thing is to convey accurately the meaning of what it is you're saying.

[tbthailand]

A wonderful country this Thailand. No one has seen even a near complete draft of reliable status and already a poll shows Thai agree with it.

Of course it may also be a classical case of 'foot-in-mouth' decease

If I had to choose between having a civil war (personal vendetta with paid stooges/mercenaries)in Bangkok and an unwritten charter with unknown content. I would take the charter any day.

'course that was't the choice...

[heybruce]

They backed the previous constitution too.

When looking at the results the majority voted for it. Not the majority in the north of course. Up to 80% in the North voted against that constitution.

Funny thing is if this constitution is passed with out anyone voting for it it will be dismissed as "Not the peoples constitution" If it is passed with people voting for it it will be dismissed as a "A forced vote"

The majority will again be disrespected by 7% of the population who instead of representing the majority speak on behalf of it.

No wonder reform is needed.

The 2007 constitution was 'approved' in an "accept this or we'll impose whatever constitution we want on you" referendum. If there is a referendum on this constitution it will undoubtedly present the voters with a similar choice.

[heybruce]

A majority of Thais again and again vote for Thaksins party so the new charter will have to make sure their votes are meaningless.

Absolutely.

Having a junta is bad, but having a country run by proxy by a criminal fugitive is even more of a democracy distortion.

The Army in an illegal coup 2006, thru him out, gave themselves amnesty, appointed the Senate that stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

Now you know.

Actually Thaksin was out, in New York to be precise. He was allowed to return, but seeing providing lunch boxes didn't have the right effect choose to jump bail. Other cases await his return. The most blatant case regarding corruption seems the one of having 'his' government provide Myanmar with a nice 2 billion Baht loan to buy services from his private company.

No wonder democracy lovers here on TVF want him back. Less and less Thai though. It seems that more are starting to realise that MOST politicians have their own interest in mind rather than that of the nation or population.

Not sure what form the final draft charter will have, but if it manages to keep proxies and cheats out that's a big step already.

Democracy lovers on TVF want democracy back. Most don't give a damn about Thaksin, and I prefer that Thailand move past him. I just don't want the movement to be a march at gunpoint.

[jamesjohnsonthird]

They backed the previous constitution too.

When looking at the results the majority voted for it. Not the majority in the north of course. Up to 80% in the North voted against that constitution.

Funny thing is if this constitution is passed with out anyone voting for it it will be dismissed as "Not the peoples constitution" If it is passed with people voting for it it will be dismissed as a "A forced vote"

The majority will again be disrespected by 7% of the population who instead of representing the majority speak on behalf of it.

No wonder reform is needed.

The 2007 constitution was 'approved' in an "accept this or we'll impose whatever constitution we want on you" referendum. If there is a referendum on this constitution it will undoubtedly present the voters with a similar choice.

The SE Asian Military Junta re-wrote the constitution in 2007. The Senate was then stacked with friends of the Army and they in turn, stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

This court convicted Thaksin of crimes and proceeded to harass & throw out the next 3 consecutive Prime Ministers.

These judges were even caught on video colluding with Democrats.

You see the Elite class along with their millionaire General buddies will do ANYTHING to be in control of Thailand at this particular moment in time.

They need to be in charge on "D Day."

Edited March 30, 2015 by jamesjohnsonthird

[rubl]

They backed the previous constitution too.

When looking at the results the majority voted for it. Not the majority in the north of course. Up to 80% in the North voted against that constitution.

Funny thing is if this constitution is passed with out anyone voting for it it will be dismissed as "Not the peoples constitution" If it is passed with people voting for it it will be dismissed as a "A forced vote"

The majority will again be disrespected by 7% of the population who instead of representing the majority speak on behalf of it.

No wonder reform is needed.

The 2007 constitution was 'approved' in an "accept this or we'll impose whatever constitution we want on you" referendum. If there is a referendum on this constitution it will undoubtedly present the voters with a similar choice.

The SE Asian Military Junta re-wrote the constitution in 2007. The Senate was then stacked with friends of the Army and they in turn, stacked the court with Thaksins enemies.

This court convicted Thaksin of crimes and proceeded to harass & throw out the next 3 consecutive Prime Ministers.

These judges were even caught on video colluding with Democrats.

You see the Elite class along with their millionaire General buddies will do ANYTHING to be in control of Thailand at this particular moment in time.

They need to be in charge on "D Day."

Oh come on JJ3, your opinion is not the same as 'facts' or even 'truth'.

The 1997 constitution was not rewritten, 90% of the text in the 2007 version is the same and a lot of the rest tends to be clarifications, strengthening of independent watchdog organisations, like we have in Western Democracies. The amnesty from the coup leaders a bit of a black blob, although understandable.

The accusation of stacked court comes whenever a ruling is disagreeable to some. 'political motivated' is also a nice one. Ideal obfuscation to hide the truth, like a PM who is too rich to need to be corrupt and uses his high office to get even richer by promoting his own businesses. The 2 billion Baht loan his government gave to Myanmar so they could buy services from Shinawatra Holdings is a fine example.

As for next three consecutive PMs, now lets see. Coup, Surayut, Samak, Somchai, Abhisit, Yingluck, Coup, Prayut.

You see, some simply tend to forget things, even that our dear criminal fugitive is elite with his background, and Amply Rich through monopolies and corruption. Furthermore he was 'democratically' ruling the country through his clone proxy from afar. He even boosted about it, see the January 2013 article in the New York Times.

So, assuming PM Prayut doesn't get too distracted we'll have E-Day next year.

[jamesjohnsonthird]

I support the majority of Thai people.

I'm not gonna support some millionaire SEAsian generals.

[phoenixdoglover]

I'm on-topic and you seem to agree. Thai style democracy is what you look for and the CDC is working on that.

Personally I accept your explanation for what it's worth. May I remind you though, that justification is missing. A democratic system corrupted by a criminal fugitive who runs his country by proxy? You accept that? You want democracy? I think you don't know what democracy is.

It is a feature of most democracies that the people elect leaders, and the leaders get to pick and choose who they want as advisors.

When GW Bush was elected in the US the first time, I think people expected he would get all kinds of advice from his father (George HW Bush). In fact, it was the Vice President, Cheney, who seemed to be in the position of greatest influence, and some would claim he exerted way more influence than was warranted. Similarly, the role of Hillary Clinton during the tenure of Bill Clinto was frequently questioned, i.e., did she have too much influence as an unelected family member?

None of this was illegal, undemocratic, or unexpected. We don't often elect hermits. We elect men or women with considerable experience, and close friends or family, official advisors, unofficial advisors, financial backers, etc. We expect they will use their network of relationships to supplement their knowledge and experience, and sometimes to make quite different decisions from what they would have acting alone.

And, yes, I am making the comparison to Thaksin. In the final analysis, the Thai voters knew who they were voting for (in Yingluck), they knew she had a brother in exile, and they expected he would have plenty of influence. Nothing unusual there, and nothing intrinsically undemocratic.

[heybruce]

Democracy lovers on TVF want democracy back. Most don't give a damn about Thaksin, and I prefer that Thailand move past him. I just don't want the movement to be a march at gunpoint.

Real democracy lovers don't give a damn about Thaksin and his running the country through proxies and from afar. Real democracy lovers wonder how a country could be called democratic having a corrupt business person running the country through skype-in sessions.

Fake democracy lovers try to ignore all that it would seem.

As has been explained repeatedly, the Thai voters knew that Yingluck would be receiving advice from Thaksin, she campaigned on the issue. They elected her knowing this. You clearly don't like it, but that doesn't mean it's undemocratic.

Clearly you want to derail discussion about a questionable poll conducted by the CDC showing 70% support for their work. Try to stay on-topic.

I'm on-topic and you seem to agree. Thai style democracy is what you look for and the CDC is working on that.

Personally I accept your explanation for what it's worth. May I remind you though, that justification is missing. A democratic system corrupted by a criminal fugitive who runs his country by proxy? You accept that? You want democracy? I think you don't know what democracy is.

"Thai style democracy is what you look for and the CDC is working on that."

All indications are that the CDC is working on non-democratic rule hiding behind a thin veneer of democracy, and I don't support that.

Since you reject election results you disagree with, you are the one who is unclear on what democracy is.

Much could be posted about criminals running Thailand, but censorship prevents it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by heybruce

[baboon]

Oh come on JJ3, your opinion is not the same as 'facts' or even 'truth'.

The 1997 constitution was not rewritten, 90% of the text in the 2007 version is the same and a lot of the rest tends to be clarifications, strengthening of independent watchdog organisations, like we have in Western Democracies. The amnesty from the coup leaders a bit of a black blob, although understandable.

The accusation of stacked court comes whenever a ruling is disagreeable to some. 'political motivated' is also a nice one. Ideal obfuscation to hide the truth, like a PM who is too rich to need to be corrupt and uses his high office to get even richer by promoting his own businesses. The 2 billion Baht loan his government gave to Myanmar so they could buy services from Shinawatra Holdings is a fine example.

As for next three consecutive PMs, now lets see. Coup, Surayut, Samak, Somchai, Abhisit, Yingluck, Coup, Prayut.

You see, some simply tend to forget things, even that our dear criminal fugitive is elite with his background, and Amply Rich through monopolies and corruption. Furthermore he was 'democratically' ruling the country through his clone proxy from afar. He even boosted about it, see the January 2013 article in the New York Times.

So, assuming PM Prayut doesn't get too distracted we'll have E-Day next year.

No no. The Senate is appointed with cronies that stack the court. That's what they did. Didn't you see that secret video of the judges and Democrats.

What are they gonna do this time to try and stop the voters from choosing?

Call me crazy but I will always support a fair vote over a multi millionaire SEAsian Military Junta.

No, no, no. The Senate of 150 members was 76 elected, 74 appointed. Requirements for both the same. Election and Appointment process clearly described.

As for a secret video, of course I have seen no secret video. I have seen a clear attempt to a smear campaign with members of Democrat party having been invited by a fellow of a court to discuss things. The fellow asked various leading questions, taped all and gave the tape to the Pheu Thai party before going on a 'shopping trip' abroad. On return he was given a function on Pheu Thai party I think and later convicted of defamation.

Indeed what will Pheu Thai try this time. I guess we're waiting for Thaksin to answer the question for them. Maybe he'll tell them to smile next they see PM Prayut.

As for crazy, why would I call you crazy? You seem to be a man on a mission, that's OK. Just remember that it's a funny mission which needs lies, insinuations and 'interesting' suggestions.

Aye, you would know all about that- posters who use lies, insinuations and 'interesting' suggestions, true enough.

Why is it so many of your posts are removed?

[metisdead]

Nonsense baiting posts intent on derailing the topic have been removed as well as the replies.