too stupid to install the gears on ultegra

[h90]

I have a Shimano Ultegra 6800 back wheel.

I bought the Ultegra cassette for it.

It contains from biggest to lowest: a set of 3, another set of three and than single gears and some spacer.

Installed them.

When I run the wheel it wobbles. Take it off and and on again, between hub and gear is about 1 cm space, so when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn. Which doesn't look nice.

How do I fix that? How do I mount centered or is something out of tolerance? Wheels bought in Thailand and they look perfect. I doubt someone could copy these. Gear bought at wiggle so Original for sure.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Shimano have all their installation info on their website ready to download. Give that a google. When i have some new part or am doing some home repairs i look at a few youtube videos and get familar and up to speed with what i am about to do. Lots of good advice and skills being shared on youtube. Watch a few not just one. Anybody can upload a "how to" video, some are better than others. I doubt you have a fake from wiggle but Thailand is awash with fake bike components especially high end stuff. Fake Colnago frames , fake FSA carbon gear, fake Thompson stems, fake everything even Shimano chains.

[h90]

Shimano have all their installation info on their website ready to download. Give that a google. When i have some new part or am doing some home repairs i look at a few youtube videos and get familar and up to speed with what i am about to do. Lots of good advice and skills being shared on youtube. Watch a few not just one. Anybody can upload a "how to" video, some are better than others. I doubt you have a fake from wiggle but Thailand is awash with fake bike components especially high end stuff. Fake Colnago frames , fake FSA carbon gear, fake Thompson stems, fake everything even Shimano chains.

After reading a bit I found out that it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards. Many people report the same.

It is a bit irritating but isn't a problem.....

[rebo]

"... when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn."
"... it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards."

No way!!!

[impulse]

In the interest of offering what little help I can, try this website:

http://si.shimano.com/#categories/137

I don't follow Shimano bike parts, but their fishing reels change from year to year and a part from their 2010 Calcutta 251 may or may not match up with a 2014 Calcutta 251. That can cause wobbling as you describe...

Best of luck.

Edited April 5, 2015 by impulse

[h90]

"... when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn."

"... it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards."

No way!!!

You find several references to it on the internet. The hub OD is a bit smaller than the gears ID.

So there will be a small up down movement of the gears once installed.

I have a bontraeger and ultrega hub here and I have a shimano 105 and an ultegra cassette here and all the parts are exactly the same.

Unfortunately I broke the end screw so I have to wait till I can do the next test to see if the movement is visible when I screw it together again or if there was a other problem the first time.

[h90]

correcting myself.

When the wheel is spinning on the freerun, the gears not spinning it makes a small sideway movement. The up down as I wrote before it not visible.

So that must be in the freerun.....

[h90]

update: when I take out the cassette, and only rotate the wheel. that part of the hub that takes the cassette has a small left-right wobble. When installing the gears and looking at the biggest one it is of course amplified.....Don't know if there is a solution, most probably not.

[impulse]

Have you checked to make sure the bearings are tight enough on the axle?

[el jefe]

"... when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn."

"... it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards."

No way!!!

You find several references to it on the internet. The hub OD is a bit smaller than the gears ID.

So there will be a small up down movement of the gears once installed.

I have a bontraeger and ultrega hub here and I have a shimano 105 and an ultegra cassette here and all the parts are exactly the same.

Unfortunately I broke the end screw so I have to wait till I can do the next test to see if the movement is visible when I screw it together again or if there was a other problem the first time.

Rebo is right. Of course.

The cassette should not "wobble" on the hub. maybe a few microns. but certainly not anything visible, like a millimeter.

1. You have defective parts.

2. You did not install the lockring properly.

3. You have the wrong spacers between the hub and the cassette.

Any wobble will destroy your cassette, chain, and maybe the wheel too.

[h90]

"... when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn."

"... it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards."

No way!!!

You find several references to it on the internet. The hub OD is a bit smaller than the gears ID.

So there will be a small up down movement of the gears once installed.

I have a bontraeger and ultrega hub here and I have a shimano 105 and an ultegra cassette here and all the parts are exactly the same.

Unfortunately I broke the end screw so I have to wait till I can do the next test to see if the movement is visible when I screw it together again or if there was a other problem the first time.

Rebo is right. Of course.

The cassette should not "wobble" on the hub. maybe a few microns. but certainly not anything visible, like a millimeter.

1. You have defective parts.

2. You did not install the lockring properly.

3. You have the wrong spacers between the hub and the cassette.

Any wobble will destroy your cassette, chain, and maybe the wheel too.

It is the freehub which wobbles a bit. The end where you put the biggest gear is slightly wobbeling left/right. And so are than all the gears. Don't know if that freehub can be removed and if there is something inside that can be changed.

It is not my mounting of the cassette, as it wobbles without cassette as well. When you let the wheel rotate but let the freehub stop, than you can see the standing gears wobble, not much on top maybe 1-2 mm, can't really tell how much.

Shimano ultegra wheelset is brandnew, out of the box.

[el jefe]

"... when the gears aren't centered they lift up and down 1 mm per turn."

"... it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards."

No way!!!

You find several references to it on the internet. The hub OD is a bit smaller than the gears ID.

So there will be a small up down movement of the gears once installed.

I have a bontraeger and ultrega hub here and I have a shimano 105 and an ultegra cassette here and all the parts are exactly the same.

Unfortunately I broke the end screw so I have to wait till I can do the next test to see if the movement is visible when I screw it together again or if there was a other problem the first time.

Rebo is right. Of course.

The cassette should not "wobble" on the hub. maybe a few microns. but certainly not anything visible, like a millimeter.

1. You have defective parts.

2. You did not install the lockring properly.

3. You have the wrong spacers between the hub and the cassette.

Any wobble will destroy your cassette, chain, and maybe the wheel too.

It is the freehub which wobbles a bit. The end where you put the biggest gear is slightly wobbeling left/right. And so are than all the gears. Don't know if that freehub can be removed and if there is something inside that can be changed.

It is not my mounting of the cassette, as it wobbles without cassette as well. When you let the wheel rotate but let the freehub stop, than you can see the standing gears wobble, not much on top maybe 1-2 mm, can't really tell how much.

Shimano ultegra wheelset is brandnew, out of the box.

Return the wheel. The freehub body shouldn't wobble.

[h90]

You find several references to it on the internet. The hub OD is a bit smaller than the gears ID.

So there will be a small up down movement of the gears once installed.

I have a bontraeger and ultrega hub here and I have a shimano 105 and an ultegra cassette here and all the parts are exactly the same.

Unfortunately I broke the end screw so I have to wait till I can do the next test to see if the movement is visible when I screw it together again or if there was a other problem the first time.

Rebo is right. Of course.

The cassette should not "wobble" on the hub. maybe a few microns. but certainly not anything visible, like a millimeter.

1. You have defective parts.

2. You did not install the lockring properly.

3. You have the wrong spacers between the hub and the cassette.

Any wobble will destroy your cassette, chain, and maybe the wheel too.

It is the freehub which wobbles a bit. The end where you put the biggest gear is slightly wobbeling left/right. And so are than all the gears. Don't know if that freehub can be removed and if there is something inside that can be changed.

It is not my mounting of the cassette, as it wobbles without cassette as well. When you let the wheel rotate but let the freehub stop, than you can see the standing gears wobble, not much on top maybe 1-2 mm, can't really tell how much.

Shimano ultegra wheelset is brandnew, out of the box.

Return the wheel. The freehub body shouldn't wobble.

Went to the shop. They told me the wobble is normal. As I didn't look like I believe me, he put the next high end bike he had there for sale on the stand, turned the wheel and it wobbled as well, maybe half the amount of mine but still clearly visible.

He told all the shimano wobble a little bit, it comes from the bearing system. But he didn't found the right English word and I wouldn't have understood it in English as well.

He told me as long as it is just a little bit it is OK.

That the other one also wobbled (didn't look at the price, but carbon frame, looked like high end) convinced me....Maybe I am just looking to exactly and the normal biker wouldn't notice it? Or by being far away from my bike place I have too much time just looking at my bike....

[CNXBKKMAN]

I think a bit of wobble is normal but only after some wear and thousands of miles. I just gave some of my wheels a spin.

Specialized Tricross 6 years old, a lot of miles and plenty of off road miles. The hub is specialized own but only a Deore level at best. Easily visible wobble on the cassette as the wheel spins. Just been on a 3 hour ride with it this afternoon and it still rides well. Not bothered as its a well used old bike and not top end kit. Cost GBP600 in a sale.

Girlfriends 12500 baht Trek 3700 . Great bike for the money! Bike has done less than 1000 miles. Some kind of no name anodized red 8 speed cassette hub has wobble but not as bad as the Specialized, maybe a few mm , not much.

New Deore XT hub 9 speed , hand built with Kinlin 29er rims, cost 7500 baht for the pair. Done about 500 plus miles. No visible wobble at all.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Just gave my Surly Marge Light fat bike wheel a spin. Has a Shimano 10 speed, low end, made in Malaysia hub. Not Deore or SLX more basic but does the job. Visible wobble of a few mm on the big sprockets.

[h90]

Just gave my Surly Marge Light fat bike wheel a spin. Has a Shimano 10 speed, low end, made in Malaysia hub. Not Deore or SLX more basic but does the job. Visible wobble of a few mm on the big sprockets.

Thanks!! I see the wobble best if you spin the wheel than stop the chain. The chain is on small gear. Than you see the standing big gears wobble a little bit.

Very hard to tell how much, I would say between 1-2 mm. But such things can be seen easily so it could be less than 1 mm as well.

[rebo]

... maybe a few mm ..."

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

Edited April 7, 2015 by rebo

[h90]

... maybe a few mm ..."

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

Wobbling:

spin the wheel, chain on some low small gear.

Stop the chain, gears stop wheel spin. You look at the largest gear and you see it wobble left-right (not up down as I wrote before).

I was very surprised that it happens but showing me on a random high end bike + it is on my brand new Ultegra 6800 it seems to be normal.

If you rotate the hub without installed gears, you can't see it, I can see it, but it needs almost super human eyes. The cassette amplifies it. Because the angle is changing and that gets more distance as bigger the diameter (is that understandable? I have some doubts on my English....).

Strange enough my Bontraeger hub which is of poor quality doesn't show any visible wobbling...

[CNXBKKMAN]

I spun my wheels as they were with the chain on the 5th 6th 7th sprocket. I will do it again with chain on the smallest sprocket see if that increases the wobble?

Rebo it's definitely normal for the cassette cluster to show some wobble especially after a lot of miles. The wobble is

Coming from the part of hub the cassette slides onto and the freewheel mechanism within. Lift the back wheel up, give the bike a pedal, watch the wheel spin round, cassette cluster is stationary and the freewheel mechanism is doing its stuff within the hub whirring away, the cassette most probably will wobble a bit.

All my hubs are mass produced cheaper ones. My best hub the Shimano XT don't cost much nowadays and is mass produced. If someone has a Chris King, Hope..etc type of hub which cost many times more than my shimano it would be interesting to hear what kind off wobble they have.

[CNXBKKMAN]

... maybe a few mm ..."

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

If you were looking at a big sprocket, the easiest gear, like a 32t 34t, 36t , these are about 3 inches length from the hub that the cassette slides on to. A tiny bit of wobble down on the hub body gets magnified by the 3 inches up at the teeth of the sprocket which looks look like a few mm. I am just using my eyes and estimating no measurements have been taken.

[h90]

I spun my wheels as they were with the chain on the 5th 6th 7th sprocket. I will do it again with chain on the smallest sprocket see if that increases the wobble?

Rebo it's definitely normal for the cassette cluster to show some wobble especially after a lot of miles. The wobble is

Coming from the part of hub the cassette slides onto and the freewheel mechanism within. Lift the back wheel up, give the bike a pedal, watch the wheel spin round, cassette cluster is stationary and the freewheel mechanism is doing its stuff within the hub whirring away, the cassette most probably will wobble a bit.

All my hubs are mass produced cheaper ones. My best hub the Shimano XT don't cost much nowadays and is mass produced. If someone has a Chris King, Hope..etc type of hub which cost many times more than my shimano it would be interesting to hear what kind off wobble they have.

I have a trainer, so I moved away that breaking device and rotate it. Yes I think the wobble is in the freewheel mechanism.

[h90]

... maybe a few mm ..."

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

If you were looking at a big sprocket, the easiest gear, like a 32t 34t, 36t , these are about 3 inches length from the hub that the cassette slides on to. A tiny bit of wobble down on the hub body gets magnified by the 3 inches up at the teeth of the sprocket which looks look like a few mm. I am just using my eyes and estimating no measurements have been taken.

yes with the sprockets not installed it is basically impossible to see. But with the cassette on it, it looks big

[rebo]

... maybe a few mm ..."

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

If you were looking at a big sprocket, the easiest gear, like a 32t 34t, 36t , these are about 3 inches length from the hub that the cassette slides on to. A tiny bit of wobble down on the hub body gets magnified by the 3 inches up at the teeth of the sprocket which looks look like a few mm. I am just using my eyes and estimating no measurements have been taken.

yes with the sprockets not installed it is basically impossible to see. But with the cassette on it, it looks big

The cassette must not have any play on the freewheel after tightened.

The freewheel itself must have - naturally - marginal play to work properly. But - as I understood you now - a few millimeters axial play of the teeth of the largest sprocket is way too much for a quality wheel. I personally would even not accept 1 mm.

In your case I assume it may be a mixture of combining products of different manufacturers (Bontrager <> Shimano? Was not really clear for me.) as well as low-cost processing quality.

Even though Ultegra isnt Dura-Ace I would not expect these few millimeters from Shimano.

And are you really sure you got genuine parts? I know a large shop close to Chiang Mai where many fake products are offered as genuine parts, even on brand new hi-class bikes ...

[CNXBKKMAN]

Cassette wobble - Cube LTD CLS PRO:

Edited April 7, 2015 by CNXBKKMAN

[MaeJoMTB]

Shimano have all their installation info on their website ready to download. Give that a google. When i have some new part or am doing some home repairs i look at a few youtube videos and get familar and up to speed with what i am about to do. Lots of good advice and skills being shared on youtube. Watch a few not just one. Anybody can upload a "how to" video, some are better than others. I doubt you have a fake from wiggle but Thailand is awash with fake bike components especially high end stuff. Fake Colnago frames , fake FSA carbon gear, fake Thompson stems, fake everything even Shimano chains.

After reading a bit I found out that it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards. Many people report the same.

It is a bit irritating but isn't a problem.....

All the hubs and gears on my bikes fit perfectly (I currently own 3 bicycles).

Same for all the guys in the club I ride with. I checked.

NO WOBBLE!

I agree with rebo, you got sold fake parts.

@CNXBK

Your video, that cassette is completely worn out, the larger sprockets are all damaged.

h90 has a new bike, no wear at all on anything.

Edited April 7, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[CNXBKKMAN]

MaejoMTB I have a wheel that looks like that vid but it's about 6 years old and done a lot of hard miles. I wouldn't expect a new wheel to look like that especially not a hi-end one

Rebo can you message me with bike shops name. I have my suspicions already. I prefer the shops that sell fakes honestlyif that makes any sense. They tell you it's fake before you buy it, your choice, rather than trying to trick you.

[h90]

Shimano have all their installation info on their website ready to download. Give that a google. When i have some new part or am doing some home repairs i look at a few youtube videos and get familar and up to speed with what i am about to do. Lots of good advice and skills being shared on youtube. Watch a few not just one. Anybody can upload a "how to" video, some are better than others. I doubt you have a fake from wiggle but Thailand is awash with fake bike components especially high end stuff. Fake Colnago frames , fake FSA carbon gear, fake Thompson stems, fake everything even Shimano chains.

After reading a bit I found out that it is normal that the hub and the gears don't fit perfect and wobble afterwards. Many people report the same.

It is a bit irritating but isn't a problem.....

All the hubs and gears on my bikes fit perfectly (I currently own 3 bicycles).

Same for all the guys in the club I ride with. I checked.

NO WOBBLE!

I agree with rebo, you got sold fake parts.

@CNXBK

Your video, that cassette is completely worn out, the larger sprockets are all damaged.

h90 has a new bike, no wear at all on anything.

At fake parts: I can't complete exclude it but: I bought the Ultegra wheelset 6800 (12000 Baht). It included all the added things. The rims look perfect, you really can't see where they are welded. The spokes are not standard and the hubs of the wheelset are different than the usual sold Ultegra hubs. I really doubt that someone take the hassle and really copy this low quantity product. I couldn't see any visual low problem (surface or so).

rotate in the bearings feel perfect, a lot better than bontraeger.

I can't exclude fake product but I don't believe it.

At CNXBK video: it looks similar, it doesn't matter if the cassette is worn or new, the wobbeling comes from the freewheel mechanism I think.

[h90]

Since I worked half my life engineering in high-end two-wheeler development I have only one simple statement for this: Impossible!

Even less than 1 mm between cassette and hub is regarded as worn out or inacceptable poor quality.

Or maybe I misunderstand the wobbling you try to describe ...?

If you were looking at a big sprocket, the easiest gear, like a 32t 34t, 36t , these are about 3 inches length from the hub that the cassette slides on to. A tiny bit of wobble down on the hub body gets magnified by the 3 inches up at the teeth of the sprocket which looks look like a few mm. I am just using my eyes and estimating no measurements have been taken.

yes with the sprockets not installed it is basically impossible to see. But with the cassette on it, it looks big

The cassette must not have any play on the freewheel after tightened.

The freewheel itself must have - naturally - marginal play to work properly. But - as I understood you now - a few millimeters axial play of the teeth of the largest sprocket is way too much for a quality wheel. I personally would even not accept 1 mm.

In your case I assume it may be a mixture of combining products of different manufacturers (Bontrager <> Shimano? Was not really clear for me.) as well as low-cost processing quality.

Even though Ultegra isnt Dura-Ace I would not expect these few millimeters from Shimano.

And are you really sure you got genuine parts? I know a large shop close to Chiang Mai where many fake products are offered as genuine parts, even on brand new hi-class bikes ...

I guess a bit is lost in translation. I try to be clear....

"The cassette must not have any play on the freewheel after tightened."

There is no play in matter you press in some direction and can move it.

"The freewheel itself must have - naturally - marginal play to work properly. But - as I understood you now - a few millimeters axial play of the teeth of the largest sprocket is way too much for a quality wheel. I personally would even not accept 1 mm."

It is not a play. How to describe??? Lets forget the 11 gear cassette. Lets pretend it is just 1 gear. Lets pretend there is a washer before the gear. The washer should be 2 mm. But in fact on one side it is 2 mm on the other 1.8. You have no play, but the gear wobbles 0.2 mm on the ground and maybe 1mm on to of a large gear. But if you stop the chain there is no wobble. Here the wobble remains so the freerun is not straight on it.

Original the bike had Bontrager hub with Shimano 105 cassette, from Probike: no wobble...But the bearings feel like crap. So I tried to replace them.

I bought the Shimano Ultegra 6800 Wheelset (hubs, rims came in Shimano packing) in Bangkok (I private message where) and Shimano Utegra Cassette in UK and screwed it together myself.

[h90]

I just sent an email at Shimano on how to detect fake products.

I did the same at Kingston (spelling??) micro SD and SKF bearings in both cases after customer concerns and both companies answered very fast. I turned out to be not fakes. Lets see if Shimano is answering.

[el jefe]

I just watched the YouTube video linked above and then went to check some of my bikes.

I checked my wife's road bike and my MTB. Absolutely no wobble of the cassette on the freehub.

Then I tested my road bike. Holy sh!t. The cassette wobbled nearly as bad as in the video. My wheel, and the video, looks like less than 1 mm of wobble but even that much is unacceptable.

FYI, my wheel is a Ksyrium Elite with over 30,000 kms on it. I'm not a fan of Ksyriums but that's what came on the bike. It's time to change the freehub body.

Back to the OP's problem, there should never be a mm of play in a new wheel.