ignorance is still ignorance...

Indeed. A point you have illustrated quite adequately.

One of the most attractive aspects of Thai culture are its strong values of social inclusion, cohesion, and harmony. This is as opposed to the social exclusion, alienation and disharmony all too prevalent in the West. Thais are held in high esteem all over the world for their friendliness, approachability, warmth, welcomeness, playfulness, and easygoingness. Almost all visitors - from first time to long-term residents -- comment favorably on these qualities.

Those who take offense at a harmless descriptive word like 'farang,' and try and turn it into something ugly, exclusionary, xenophobic, or racist ignore this mountain of counter evidence that Thais value social inclusion and cohesion greatly. And those values don't just extend to other Thais either, as some would have you believe. I can't tell you how many times, for example, that Thais have said to me, "You're Thai already!" after they find out I've been here over 10 years and can speak the language.

Those who argue that we should be taking offense with the word 'farang', often seem to be the same ones arguing that returning a wai makes foreigners look stupid, or that efforts to understand and respect the culture are pointless. Anyone expressing appreciation or admiration for the culture is mocked as trying to be 'Thai-er than Thai' or a 'Thai apologist.' We've all heard it before. These arguments all share the same line of thinking: 'Thais need to change to accomodate me, not the other way around.' Put simply, embracing this type of thinking, which sadly is all too often encouraged on this forum, is a recipe for becoming a bitter and permanently maladjusted malcontent who ultimately misses out on much of what Thailand has to offer.

In my opinion, this is a completely contrived grievance which deserves absolutely no further consideration or discussion.

it's not harmless though is it . so you really think its ok to classify someone by the color of their skin?

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Mentioning someone's ethnicity is not racism. Treating them differently because of it is.

Mentioning someone's ethnicity is not racism. Treating them differently because of it is.

I agree with that.

But as I said before I do not self identify as flaung so won't describe myself that way to Orientals in Thailand, or out, or to others who the local Oriental racial classification system clumsily lumps as flaung.

You can 'self identify' all you like. You're still a farang.

You can 'self identify' all you like. You're still a farang.

To the local Orientals, yes, in their heads. I don't live in their heads. Thank you very much.

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

Is this a 5 minute argument or the full 30 minutes?

Is this a 5 minute argument or the full 30 minutes?

It's the full 55 minute hour.

That's about how much sense it makes.

Is this a 5 minute argument or the full 30 minutes?

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

yep it means person of a white race same as the word n--ger was used in the past to des ribe afro americans.

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I must have missed the period when Thai people kept white folks as slaves.

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

yep it means person of a white race same as the word n--ger was used in the past to des ribe afro americans.

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pretty much in the same way chi-nk--s was used to describe asians

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I must have missed the period when Thai people kept white folks as slaves.

Soibiker, you must have seen them, forced to trudge round Tesco Lotus by their masters, or should I say mistresses, compelled to open their wallets on reaching the cashier, and then herded back to their pick-ups, struggling under the weight of juicy supplies for their owners. Even the Grecian beige has been spotted toiling between the aisles of Lotus in Khon Kaen. He shouted out for help but was tragically ignored by another beige, farang, fat white bas....d, etc. He started a thread about it approx 6 months ago,

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

yep it means person of a white race same as the word n--ger was used in the past to des ribe afro americans.

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pretty much in the same way chi-nk--s was used to describe asians

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No, you are absolutely wrong, on both counts. If it was derogatory, there wouldn't be music shows called "Farang Jung" which highlights western music. Restaurant menus wouldn't say "farang food." Farangs wouldn't open restaurants and call it the "Farang Cafe." Etc., etc. Your ignorance of this subject is rather breathtaking.

Half a dozen misguided grumpy old fools on ThaiVisa getting their knickers in a twist isn't really sufficient evidence to define a perfectly harmless Thai word as racist.

and the irony is that they are all one (or perhaps more) of those specified here after (collected in Thaivisa)

farang

falang

farlang

farung

farong

faring

farnags

falung

ferong

ferang

ferung

flaung

furung

furlong

furlung

forong

folong

forlong

pharung

felang

franansgs

ferlang

forang

Folung

Frangs

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Mentioning someone's ethnicity is not racism. Treating them differently because of it is.

Ethnicity refers to shared cultural practices, perspectives, and distinctions that set apart one group of people from another. That is, ethnicity is a shared cultural heritage. The most common characteristics distinguishing various ethnic groups are ancestry, a sense of history, language, religion, and forms of dress. Ethnic differences are not inherited; they are learned.

Judging by the above sociology definition, Thais get it spot on when they call me FarangLaos! Then, i call them ThaiLaos and they quickly stop smiling, LOL.

I must have missed the period when Thai people kept white folks as slaves.

Soibiker, you must have seen them, forced to trudge round Tesco Lotus by their masters, or should I say mistresses, compelled to open their wallets on reaching the cashier, and then herded back to their pick-ups, struggling under the weight of juicy supplies for their owners. Even the Grecian beige has been spotted toiling between the aisles of Lotus in Khon Kaen. He shouted out for help but was tragically ignored by another beige, farang, fat white bas....d, etc. He started a thread about it approx 6 months ago,

Good one, bannork.

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

yep it means person of a white race same as the word n--ger was used in the past to des ribe afro americans.

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pretty much in the same way chi-nk--s was used to describe asians

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No, you are absolutely wrong, on both counts. If it was derogatory, there wouldn't be music shows called "Farang Jung" which highlights western music. Restaurant menus wouldn't say "farang food." Farangs wouldn't open restaurants and call it the "Farang Cafe." Etc., etc. Your ignorance of this subject is rather breathtaking.

Absolutely breathtaking comments.

Rijit, you are evaluating language in a vacuum outside of all cultural and historical context.

No person knowledgable about comparative culture, linguistics, or world history would ever agree with the statements you made.

To anyone who knows what the word means. You can argue 2+2 makes 5 all day, but it won't make it so.

yep it means person of a white race same as the word n--ger was used in the past to des ribe afro americans.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

pretty much in the same way chi-nk--s was used to describe asians

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, you are absolutely wrong, on both counts. If it was derogatory, there wouldn't be music shows called "Farang Jung" which highlights western music. Restaurant menus wouldn't say "farang food." Farangs wouldn't open restaurants and call it the "Farang Cafe." Etc., etc. Your ignorance of this subject is rather breathtaking.

Absolutely breathtaking comments.

Rijit, you are evaluating language in a vacuum outside of all cultural and historical context.

No person knowledgable about comparative culture, linguistics, or world history would ever agree with the statements you made.

what, that its definition is 'white people ' and its used enuf times in a derogotary way to belittle and offend

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Dont call me a farang, farang.

Dont call me a farang, farang.

That was like poetry, my man.

Farang Pub,

Is listed non alphabetically under Gay People in Thailand

Probably just coincidence

Anyway, if I had a half-Thai kid, I'd be asking my wife some pretty serious questions.

I have and I don't see what the big deal is. Sometimes parents are the ones to make something into a problem. My little girl is loved by many including family and neighbors. No problem.

Anyway, if I had a half-Thai kid, I'd be asking my wife some pretty serious questions.

I have and I don't see what the big deal is. Sometimes parents are the ones to make something into a problem. My little girl is loved by many including family and neighbors. No problem.

Think you grabbed the wrong end of the stick there.

The member appears to be inferring that both he and his wife are Thai, or neither is.

Look it could be worse they might call you Mah,or Gwialo[we used to get that in Hong kong],just shows does it not how unpleasant it is to be on the end of racist,terms,what i cannot understand is,how fixated they are ,about talking about us,many time's i go over to my wife's shop,and i listen in on thier conversations ,,and it's falang this ,falang that,usually,ban yai,or in my case ham yai,or mee satang yai,ect ,ect,&c&c.

Look it could be worse they might call you Mah,or Gwialo[we used to get that in Hong kong],just shows does it not how unpleasant it is to be on the end of racist,terms,what i cannot understand is,how fixated they are ,about talking about us,many time's i go over to my wife's shop,and i listen in on thier conversations ,,and it's falang this ,falang that,usually,ban yai,or in my case ham yai,or mee satang yai,ect ,ect,&c&c.

It sounds like they're planning to kill you, Marko.

Watch your back, my farang brother.

Unlikely as the would have no money,i follow the rule that you must be worth more alive than dead,a good one to follow in Thailand.

Have you considered that it might not be their attitude to farangs in general, but just how they feel about you?

There seems to be a reading comprehension situation gone awry here,

And who cares what some 75 year old has to say about it,

I wrote the OP after a 70 year old American friend from

New York used it to self describe, and he sounded retarded.

I too, asked my soapy princess if it was derogatory and she said no, unless the falang was acting a fool or was otherwise drawing attention to himself,

But it was the face she made when she said it to describe the fools

That was clearly derogatory.....

This question is only directed to the people who disagree or ambivalent about it,

"If you had a female child, of mixed Thai and w/e you are, and the kid had light skin blonde or reddish hair and blue eyes, would you want her teachers in school to single her out as the falang, so she felt like an outcast, and was abused forth with by her classmates, because the <deleted> of a teacher called her a falang, or would you want her called by her name, the one that you gave her?

And if she was so devalued by that name, making her different from all the rest, what further abuses might that possibly lead too?

I grew up with busing, in the new york 60's and I know that kids will not repeat their parents prejudice,

So why would you encourage it, because some old teacher gave you her definition, when we all know it is used as a form of separation and devaluation?

All you have done with this post is expose your own racial programming and bias derived thereof, to feel fear and guilt whenever someone uses a term which you have been programmed to interpret as racist... Just because you had a f##ked up upbringing in the US does not mean that every culture and every race on the planet is subjected to the same programming... You are not in US anymore...

Yet you continue to trot out your bias when the facts say otherwise... I give up, have a nice day...