Thai politics: Do private hospitals charge reasonable prices?

[stoffel45]

Recently I was admitted to a very large private hospital in Pattaya with acute tummy upset and high fever.

Great doctor, superb nursing staff. Was told the bill would be around 28,000 baht and I would be discharged in 2 or 3 days.

My Insurance company in Belgium informed the Accounts Dept that they would pay everything.

3 days later, the doctor told me that I would be discharged the next day. The Insurance company booked the new flight.

All was well.

The same afternoon, a lady doctor arrived at my bedside saying that she would just like to do some tests to rule out that I had not had a stroke.

A stroke? There were no - as in zero signs I'd had a stroke.

I phoned my wife who is a doctor and she phoned the Insurance Company and told them that this business/hospital was trying to load them with these tests.

The Insurer phoned back to say that their Thai representative doctor in Bangkok agreed that I should have the tests.

The next morning I received an MRI - Ka-Ching. Then another MRI but now of the whole cervical spine.

Hardly back to the ward I am wheeled down to ENT to receive a series of "Balance and vertigo" tests. The next morning hearing tests.

Flight missed now it is day 5.

I have a physiotherapist using ultra sound and massage for my perfectly sound left shoulder.

Then in comes a neuro-surgeon with the second set of MRI results.

"You must have urgent spinal surgery. We must operate today." he tells me.

Not on your life I say. There is no need for surgery other than dreamed up by your Accounts department. NO.

On to my wife - on to the Insurer.

The Insurer is now fully appraised that the Hospital is trying to cheat them and gouge out as much as possible - and risk my life at the same time - cervical spine surgery is dodgy.

Day 6.

The Insurer asks for the MRI results. The Hospital cannot send them because the 'files are too large' and their computer cannot cope. A lie of course.

Day 7.

I am sent to a ward better for observation. it has a sitting room and a dining room. I insist I am returned to the first room.

The nurse complies. A Chinese lady from Accounts (the real heart of the hospital) arrives furious and tells me that I cannot tell the doctors what to do and I must go to the bigger room.

No - but I am preparing a letter warning every Embassy in Thailand what is happening and hope they will warn their nationals and their insurers that this hospital is not dealing straight.

Day 8.

Insurer in Belgium request I be moved to a different hospital - in Bangkok.

The Pattaya Hospital say my condition is too critical and I cannot be moved.

At last the MRI files arrive with the Insurer who give a copy to my wife who sends them to the two top neuro-surgeons who say - no trauma, no risky pathology, absolutely no need for any surgery.

The Insurer says it MUST abide by the local Doctors' advice and by the concurrence of their BKK rep.

Impasse.

The Insurer asks for a neuro-surgeon in BKK to visit and examine me. The Pattaya hospital refuse giving no grounds.

Day 9

My wife has had an informal chat with the Insurer who say the only way to break the deadlock is to discharge myself - against the Hospital doctors' orders.

I ask the Insurer to book me the following night back to Belgium. Done.

I call Accounts and tell them that I am discharging myself and ask for the forms.

You cannot do that.

Yes I can.

Forms cannot be done until tomorrow and you have to agree with the Doctor.

Day 10

First stop Accounts.

The Doctor will see you this afternoon because he has to sign you out.

I tell Accounts that my first call will be to the Insurer, the second to the newspapers and the third to my embassy.

The Bill about 2 metres of it arrives and I sign it off.

Then a letter is produced saying I am very happy about my treatment in every way.

I refuse to sign it.

The bill was over 700,000 baht - for an upset tummy.

Caveat

[stoli]

I visited the (newer) Pattaya City Hospital this year. I think it is government, not private, but not sure. They arranged for me to see the doctor, took my height and weight, said the doctor had gone home, and charged me 500 baht. Came back in the morning to see the doctor, and the first thing they wanted to do was check my height & weight. I assured them it had not changed in 12 hours. Not sure why they need to check your vitals, and charge you, on a daily basis.

Edited April 28, 2015 by stoli

[Soutpeel]

Well here is the thing regarding private hospitals in Thailand and the all know farang's complaining about them....you don't have to use them you know

The thing is most who are whinging one suspects have come from nanny states which afforded them "free" access to medical treatment, moving to Thailand they believe the private hospitals should afford them the same service.

As someone who has been on private medical insurance the vast majority of my life, in quite a few locations in the world, including some so called enlightened/first world countries, Thailand private hospitals are not that expensive and the service/care is some of the best I have ever received anywhere,

[nickcar]

Recently I was admitted to a very large private hospital in Pattaya with acute tummy upset and high fever.

Great doctor, superb nursing staff. Was told the bill would be around 28,000 baht and I would be discharged in 2 or 3 days.

My Insurance company in Belgium informed the Accounts Dept that they would pay everything.

3 days later, the doctor told me that I would be discharged the next day. The Insurance company booked the new flight.

All was well.

The same afternoon, a lady doctor arrived at my bedside saying that she would just like to do some tests to rule out that I had not had a stroke.

A stroke? There were no - as in zero signs I'd had a stroke.

I phoned my wife who is a doctor and she phoned the Insurance Company and told them that this business/hospital was trying to load them with these tests.

The Insurer phoned back to say that their Thai representative doctor in Bangkok agreed that I should have the tests.

The next morning I received an MRI - Ka-Ching. Then another MRI but now of the whole cervical spine.

Hardly back to the ward I am wheeled down to ENT to receive a series of "Balance and vertigo" tests. The next morning hearing tests.

Flight missed now it is day 5.

I have a physiotherapist using ultra sound and massage for my perfectly sound left shoulder.

Then in comes a neuro-surgeon with the second set of MRI results.

"You must have urgent spinal surgery. We must operate today." he tells me.

Not on your life I say. There is no need for surgery other than dreamed up by your Accounts department. NO.

On to my wife - on to the Insurer.

The Insurer is now fully appraised that the Hospital is trying to cheat them and gouge out as much as possible - and risk my life at the same time - cervical spine surgery is dodgy.

Day 6.

The Insurer asks for the MRI results. The Hospital cannot send them because the 'files are too large' and their computer cannot cope. A lie of course.

Day 7.

I am sent to a ward better for observation. it has a sitting room and a dining room. I insist I am returned to the first room.

The nurse complies. A Chinese lady from Accounts (the real heart of the hospital) arrives furious and tells me that I cannot tell the doctors what to do and I must go to the bigger room.

No - but I am preparing a letter warning every Embassy in Thailand what is happening and hope they will warn their nationals and their insurers that this hospital is not dealing straight.

Day 8.

Insurer in Belgium request I be moved to a different hospital - in Bangkok.

The Pattaya Hospital say my condition is too critical and I cannot be moved.

At last the MRI files arrive with the Insurer who give a copy to my wife who sends them to the two top neuro-surgeons who say - no trauma, no risky pathology, absolutely no need for any surgery.

The Insurer says it MUST abide by the local Doctors' advice and by the concurrence of their BKK rep.

Impasse.

The Insurer asks for a neuro-surgeon in BKK to visit and examine me. The Pattaya hospital refuse giving no grounds.

Day 9

My wife has had an informal chat with the Insurer who say the only way to break the deadlock is to discharge myself - against the Hospital doctors' orders.

I ask the Insurer to book me the following night back to Belgium. Done.

I call Accounts and tell them that I am discharging myself and ask for the forms.

You cannot do that.

Yes I can.

Forms cannot be done until tomorrow and you have to agree with the Doctor.

Day 10

First stop Accounts.

The Doctor will see you this afternoon because he has to sign you out.

I tell Accounts that my first call will be to the Insurer, the second to the newspapers and the third to my embassy.

The Bill about 2 metres of it arrives and I sign it off.

Then a letter is produced saying I am very happy about my treatment in every way.

I refuse to sign it.

The bill was over 700,000 baht - for an upset tummy.

Caveat

This is extraordinary. I worked in what is said to be the most expensive hospital in BKK and i never heard of anything like that happening anywhere. To me it is a great shame that no action is taken to punish this hospital. Such as the insurence company refusing to pay the bill. And taking them to court.

400 to 500 baht i would consider on the low side for most of the best doctors in the hospital i worked in. Even though i am retired most everybody in the hospital remembers me and tend to charge less than normal, and i will rarely pay less than 1000 doctors fee.

Currently i believe that the hospital charges about 240 baht as a standard fee on top for OPD services. It is a given that every hospital should take your blood pressure for every visit, no exceptions.

This hospital spends a fortune on the latest medical equipment, probably the best in Asia. Things like computerised blood testing equipment including a chain that will pass the blood between machines and then store in fridge. The latest quality of CT scans which improve all the time.

Some hospital i know of have a charge rate specific for foreigners, Thais may only get charged 60% of the foreigner. I know of this because i speak thai very well and sometimes research prices for comparison to my regular hospital(which I know does not do this)

[Goldieinkathu]

Do private hospitals charge reasonable prices?

For who, Thai or foreigners.

When I called the Phuket International hospital a while ago to ask the price of hormone injections I was asked if it was for a Thai or a foreigner. I asked "why is there a difference" to which I was told yes. When I explained that I had a work permit etc I was told it didn't matter.She said there was a difference of 2.000B for that treatment. I wonder if it's the same for operations.

I was shocked, I hadn't realised that two tier pricing was going on in hospitals too.

[Prbkk]

Bumrungrad hospital out patient visits are as expensive as Australian GPS, so is medication

I totally disagree. For a normal visit to a GPS in Bumrungrad hospital you would pay a total of BHT400 to 600. You would pay at least double that in Australia. Wouldn't you?

...maybe in about 1975 but NOW you can't get out of that place under 1500 Baht. Yes, it's good but definitely western prices and add-ons for EVERYTHING. Plus, as others have said the mark up on the drugs is OTT.

[Soutpeel]

Bumrungrad hospital out patient visits are as expensive as Australian GPS, so is medication

I totally disagree. For a normal visit to a GPS in Bumrungrad hospital you would pay a total of BHT400 to 600. You would pay at least double that in Australia. Wouldn't you?

...maybe in about 1975 but NOW you can't get out of that place under 1500 Baht. Yes, it's good but definitely western prices and add-ons for EVERYTHING. Plus, as others have said the mark up on the drugs is OTT.

but here is the thing private hospital's the world over do this as regards mark up's on drugs etc, lest not forget they are operating a business, with share holders like every private company, they are not nanny state NHS or similar state sponsored medical programs and the sooner people accept this the better, and you do have a choice, you 1 don't have to buy the drugs at the hospital, you can get a script and buy elsewhere or 2. alternatively go to another hospital which is not private to get your treatment

[ginjag]

A friend of mine one and a half years ago, 2 days into his holiday got bad leg pain, and going into a three letter named Hospital in Udon, was waiting an age for a consultant to arrive, he had scans and X-rays, after this his foot started to turn bluish, they recommended K.Khen Uni hospital emergency. I asked if we went would they treat him immediately they said it would be up to them. Amputation was mentioned. I asked A## if they could prescribe blood thinners enough to get out back to UK. The story ended we changed flight for the next day, EVA air took every step to make sure he had priority on and off the aircraft and on arrival in London he was admitted, major surgery performed and saved his leg.

Had we gone to K Khen we both believe the leg would have been amputated.

London surgeon asked where the X-ray came from --A## hospital Udon he laughed and said---he hasn't seen such antiquated x-rays like this in years.

Big private hospitals who charge OTT amounts should have the latest equipment.... this was frightening to say the least.

[gamini]

They think they are not third world! So they charge first world prices. Nurses get a pittance. Doctors a fortune. And even some doctors do not have license. But use the hospitals license. Yes T.I.T.

what utter rubbish. But I guess you don't live in Thailand. Millions of people from all over the world come to Bangkok for medical treatment, not only because it is cheaper than thier own countries but because of the high quality of service and latest equipment.

[GinBoy2]

Does it matter what they charge? You have a choice, you can choose to go to a private hospital or choose to go to a government facility. Nobody twists your arm to go to a Brumrugrad type hospital.

I never quite understand why some folks get so worked up over health care. It's available, at various price levels, and you have a choice.

Maybe we should all get hyperventilated over why stores carrying the same product charge different prices, except in that case we all happily walk over the street and buy the cheaper option, congratulating ourselves on getting a bargain rather than lampooning the higher priced store

[xylophone]

Does it matter what they charge? You have a choice, you can choose to go to a private hospital or choose to go to a government facility. Nobody twists your arm to go to a Brumrugrad type hospital.

I never quite understand why some folks get so worked up over health care. It's available, at various price levels, and you have a choice.

Maybe we should all get hyperventilated over why stores carrying the same product charge different prices, except in that case we all happily walk over the street and buy the cheaper option, congratulating ourselves on getting a bargain rather than lampooning the higher priced store

"Does it matter what they charge?"

Yes it does, because if I go to a hospital of my choice, I wish to get fair value for any procedure which is going to be undertaken, however that does not happen here and I will give you a few personal examples: –

– My g/fs Brother had a growth in his neck which was getting larger (was about the size of a tennis ball in the end) and nothing the local hospitals could do, other than to give him iodine pills, seemed to help and his family was just about resigned to the fact that he was going to die. So we took him to Bangkok Phuket hospital, because I could not stand by and watch him die and we needed to get another opinion.

So my g/f accompanied him in to see the specialist, and to cut a long story short, after a couple visits and tests, he was found to have a benign tumour of the thyroid and an operation was suggested and the price given to her was around 80,000 baht.

When I accompanied them on the last visit and the nursing staff saw that a farang was going to foot the bill, it suddenly increased by almost double the amount and when I queried this, the nurse said that it was because the surgeon had forgot to put their fee on the original quote. However we had that and the surgeons fee was certainly on it. It was no more than a rip-off so I demanded the X-rays we had already paid for and went to another hospital and the whole procedure was done for just over 100,000 baht, this because there were unexpected complications.

That was about three years ago and he has been fine ever since.

At the opening of the Bangkok Phuket hospital colonoscopy unit, I enquired as to the cost of a colonoscopy and was told as an opening "offer" it could be done for 13,000 baht, this after I told them that I would foot the bill. When I turned up for the colonoscopy and the nurse asked if I had insurance, I said that I did and she said she would check to see if they would pay the bill, and this was confirmed. However a new bill was produced for me which exceeded 20,000 baht and after some embarrassing questions, I ascertained that it was loaded because the insurance company was paying.

I use the skin doctor at Phuket International hospital and find him to be very good, however upon checking the bill on one of my earlier visit, I noticed that I was paying about five hundred baht for an antibacterial cream, this only in an extremely small container about the size of a bottle top. On subsequent visits I told him not to prescribe it because I could buy a tube of it with 10 times the amount in it for 160 baht and he looked a little sheepish.

And finally the story of a friend of a friend, a old farang who had to spend a night (perhaps two) in a hospital here and when he was being discharged, the bill came to well over 200,000 baht And on receiving this his Thai wife went to the accounts department and raised hell, then saw the administrator and did the same thing arguing that he had been resident in Thailand for 20 years, was married to her and was supporting her family and that this was shameful.

After causing them much embarrassment, the bill came down to 48,000 baht, which she informed my friend was the price that a Thai would have to pay in this hospital.

I don't know how many more examples you want, but of course it matters what is being charged, because if for no other reason I just want to be treated fairly and not ripped off and surely that is everybody's right.

[GinBoy2]

Does it matter what they charge? You have a choice, you can choose to go to a private hospital or choose to go to a government facility. Nobody twists your arm to go to a Brumrugrad type hospital.

I never quite understand why some folks get so worked up over health care. It's available, at various price levels, and you have a choice.

Maybe we should all get hyperventilated over why stores carrying the same product charge different prices, except in that case we all happily walk over the street and buy the cheaper option, congratulating ourselves on getting a bargain rather than lampooning the higher priced store

"Does it matter what they charge?"

Yes it does, because if I go to a hospital of my choice, I wish to get fair value for any procedure which is going to be undertaken, however that does not happen here and I will give you a few personal examples: –

– My g/fs Brother had a growth in his neck which was getting larger (was about the size of a tennis ball in the end) and nothing the local hospitals could do, other than to give him iodine pills, seemed to help and his family was just about resigned to the fact that he was going to die. So we took him to Bangkok Phuket hospital, because I could not stand by and watch him die and we needed to get another opinion.

So my g/f accompanied him in to see the specialist, and to cut a long story short, after a couple visits and tests, he was found to have a benign tumour of the thyroid and an operation was suggested and the price given to her was around 80,000 baht.

When I accompanied them on the last visit and the nursing staff saw that a farang was going to foot the bill, it suddenly increased by almost double the amount and when I queried this, the nurse said that it was because the surgeon had forgot to put their fee on the original quote. However we had that and the surgeons fee was certainly on it. It was no more than a rip-off so I demanded the X-rays we had already paid for and went to another hospital and the whole procedure was done for just over 100,000 baht, this because there were unexpected complications.

That was about three years ago and he has been fine ever since.

At the opening of the Bangkok Phuket hospital colonoscopy unit, I enquired as to the cost of a colonoscopy and was told as an opening "offer" it could be done for 13,000 baht, this after I told them that I would foot the bill. When I turned up for the colonoscopy and the nurse asked if I had insurance, I said that I did and she said she would check to see if they would pay the bill, and this was confirmed. However a new bill was produced for me which exceeded 20,000 baht and after some embarrassing questions, I ascertained that it was loaded because the insurance company was paying.

I use the skin doctor at Phuket International hospital and find him to be very good, however upon checking the bill on one of my earlier visit, I noticed that I was paying about five hundred baht for an antibacterial cream, this only in an extremely small container about the size of a bottle top. On subsequent visits I told him not to prescribe it because I could buy a tube of it with 10 times the amount in it for 160 baht and he looked a little sheepish.

And finally the story of a friend of a friend, a old farang who had to spend a night (perhaps two) in a hospital here and when he was being discharged, the bill came to well over 200,000 baht And on receiving this his Thai wife went to the accounts department and raised hell, then saw the administrator and did the same thing arguing that he had been resident in Thailand for 20 years, was married to her and was supporting her family and that this was shameful.

After causing them much embarrassment, the bill came down to 48,000 baht, which she informed my friend was the price that a Thai would have to pay in this hospital.

I don't know how many more examples you want, but of course it matters what is being charged, because if for no other reason I just want to be treated fairly and not ripped off and surely that is everybody's right.

Again, so you got a choice. Don't got to a hospital you feel is ripping you off. Would you go to a car dealership that had a reputation for charging double? Assuming that we have have brains, everyone can decide whats a good value and what being fleeced. If you consider buying health care any different that buying any other commodity, well that is a problem

[Yunla]

Some of the best private hospitals in Bangkok not only bring in huge amounts of money from foreigners, those hospitals see people flying from across the world to have surgery in Bangkok. The nations people are flying from have decent private hospitals, but the truth is that Bangkok has some of the best specialist doctors in the world, and very high standards of hospital care.

I stayed in a private Bangkok hospital for three whole months about a decade ago, and on my ward I would spend my recovery time observing and chatting with the new arrivals when we met in the Hall. I met numerous Oil Sheiks, wearing gold neck emblems and impressive headgear, along with surgical gowns of course. I saw them arrive one after another for three months, along with their wives dressed in very beautiful expensive Arabic clothing of high status. They had travelled to Bangkok for surgery, mostly spinal or hips or other bone-related work. They came here because that particular hospital had several Thai doctors who are recognised as world experts on hip and spine surgery. Those Thai doctors often travel to USA/EU to give speeches at seminars attended by other specialists.

Obviously this thread title is somewhat vague, there are many different private hospitals, so it is hard to just give a blanket opinion on them all. I would say that Thailand has some of the best hospitals in the world, with some of the best specialist doctors in the world, and they provide a high quality service for patients who travel from all around the world just to have medical treatment in Thailand. Given the high level of care and quality of service, the prices are very fair in those hospitals. And they bring a lot of money into Thailand, at the same time as saving lives and giving people their mobility back. So I think Thailand should be very proud of its private medical services, which are in high demand by patients around the world.

[likewise]

small example, seroquel at Bangkok-Phuket 300 baht per pill, in pharmacy outside 75 baht per pil, same brand from Astrazena...... so 3 times more expensive.......legal theft !!!

[xylophone]

Does it matter what they charge? You have a choice, you can choose to go to a private hospital or choose to go to a government facility. Nobody twists your arm to go to a Brumrugrad type hospital.

I never quite understand why some folks get so worked up over health care. It's available, at various price levels, and you have a choice.

Maybe we should all get hyperventilated over why stores carrying the same product charge different prices, except in that case we all happily walk over the street and buy the cheaper option, congratulating ourselves on getting a bargain rather than lampooning the higher priced store

"Does it matter what they charge?"

Yes it does, because if I go to a hospital of my choice, I wish to get fair value for any procedure which is going to be undertaken, however that does not happen here and I will give you a few personal examples: –

– My g/fs Brother had a growth in his neck which was getting larger (was about the size of a tennis ball in the end) and nothing the local hospitals could do, other than to give him iodine pills, seemed to help and his family was just about resigned to the fact that he was going to die. So we took him to Bangkok Phuket hospital, because I could not stand by and watch him die and we needed to get another opinion.

So my g/f accompanied him in to see the specialist, and to cut a long story short, after a couple visits and tests, he was found to have a benign tumour of the thyroid and an operation was suggested and the price given to her was around 80,000 baht.

When I accompanied them on the last visit and the nursing staff saw that a farang was going to foot the bill, it suddenly increased by almost double the amount and when I queried this, the nurse said that it was because the surgeon had forgot to put their fee on the original quote. However we had that and the surgeons fee was certainly on it. It was no more than a rip-off so I demanded the X-rays we had already paid for and went to another hospital and the whole procedure was done for just over 100,000 baht, this because there were unexpected complications.

That was about three years ago and he has been fine ever since.

At the opening of the Bangkok Phuket hospital colonoscopy unit, I enquired as to the cost of a colonoscopy and was told as an opening "offer" it could be done for 13,000 baht, this after I told them that I would foot the bill. When I turned up for the colonoscopy and the nurse asked if I had insurance, I said that I did and she said she would check to see if they would pay the bill, and this was confirmed. However a new bill was produced for me which exceeded 20,000 baht and after some embarrassing questions, I ascertained that it was loaded because the insurance company was paying.

I use the skin doctor at Phuket International hospital and find him to be very good, however upon checking the bill on one of my earlier visit, I noticed that I was paying about five hundred baht for an antibacterial cream, this only in an extremely small container about the size of a bottle top. On subsequent visits I told him not to prescribe it because I could buy a tube of it with 10 times the amount in it for 160 baht and he looked a little sheepish.

And finally the story of a friend of a friend, a old farang who had to spend a night (perhaps two) in a hospital here and when he was being discharged, the bill came to well over 200,000 baht And on receiving this his Thai wife went to the accounts department and raised hell, then saw the administrator and did the same thing arguing that he had been resident in Thailand for 20 years, was married to her and was supporting her family and that this was shameful.

After causing them much embarrassment, the bill came down to 48,000 baht, which she informed my friend was the price that a Thai would have to pay in this hospital.

I don't know how many more examples you want, but of course it matters what is being charged, because if for no other reason I just want to be treated fairly and not ripped off and surely that is everybody's right.

Again, so you got a choice. Don't got to a hospital you feel is ripping you off. Would you go to a car dealership that had a reputation for charging double? Assuming that we have have brains, everyone can decide whats a good value and what being fleeced. If you consider buying health care any different that buying any other commodity, well that is a problem

I think you are missing the point............ if I wish to go to the two best hospitals on this island and do not want to be in bed in some of the other hospitals around, a couple of which I have visited and found to be (IMO) "unsatisfactory", then I should expect to get fair value for money or as someone put it "not be ripped off".

The whole thing is about ethics and there is absolutely nothing ethical about charging farangs four or five times more than for the same operation on a Thai person, nor for that matter bumping up the cost if insurance is going to pay for it. It is unethical, dishonest, and not in the best interests of the patient.

In fact just yesterday I read that the General has decided to look into the costs charged by private hospitals because of the feedback that they are just too expensive and are "rip-off merchants".

This is not about "having a choice to go somewhere else" this is about good business practices, ethics and honesty.

[LuckyLew]

It is a private hospital and there aim is to turn a profit

Seems they are doing a good job at it

If you cannot afford a private hospital than go to another one

I have been to good and bad ones in Thailand

Being private does not necessarily mean better care, usually just means pay more for the name

[GinBoy2]

Does it matter what they charge? You have a choice, you can choose to go to a private hospital or choose to go to a government facility. Nobody twists your arm to go to a Brumrugrad type hospital.

I never quite understand why some folks get so worked up over health care. It's available, at various price levels, and you have a choice.

Maybe we should all get hyperventilated over why stores carrying the same product charge different prices, except in that case we all happily walk over the street and buy the cheaper option, congratulating ourselves on getting a bargain rather than lampooning the higher priced store

"Does it matter what they charge?"

Yes it does, because if I go to a hospital of my choice, I wish to get fair value for any procedure which is going to be undertaken, however that does not happen here and I will give you a few personal examples: –

– My g/fs Brother had a growth in his neck which was getting larger (was about the size of a tennis ball in the end) and nothing the local hospitals could do, other than to give him iodine pills, seemed to help and his family was just about resigned to the fact that he was going to die. So we took him to Bangkok Phuket hospital, because I could not stand by and watch him die and we needed to get another opinion.

So my g/f accompanied him in to see the specialist, and to cut a long story short, after a couple visits and tests, he was found to have a benign tumour of the thyroid and an operation was suggested and the price given to her was around 80,000 baht.

When I accompanied them on the last visit and the nursing staff saw that a farang was going to foot the bill, it suddenly increased by almost double the amount and when I queried this, the nurse said that it was because the surgeon had forgot to put their fee on the original quote. However we had that and the surgeons fee was certainly on it. It was no more than a rip-off so I demanded the X-rays we had already paid for and went to another hospital and the whole procedure was done for just over 100,000 baht, this because there were unexpected complications.

That was about three years ago and he has been fine ever since.

At the opening of the Bangkok Phuket hospital colonoscopy unit, I enquired as to the cost of a colonoscopy and was told as an opening "offer" it could be done for 13,000 baht, this after I told them that I would foot the bill. When I turned up for the colonoscopy and the nurse asked if I had insurance, I said that I did and she said she would check to see if they would pay the bill, and this was confirmed. However a new bill was produced for me which exceeded 20,000 baht and after some embarrassing questions, I ascertained that it was loaded because the insurance company was paying.

I use the skin doctor at Phuket International hospital and find him to be very good, however upon checking the bill on one of my earlier visit, I noticed that I was paying about five hundred baht for an antibacterial cream, this only in an extremely small container about the size of a bottle top. On subsequent visits I told him not to prescribe it because I could buy a tube of it with 10 times the amount in it for 160 baht and he looked a little sheepish.

And finally the story of a friend of a friend, a old farang who had to spend a night (perhaps two) in a hospital here and when he was being discharged, the bill came to well over 200,000 baht And on receiving this his Thai wife went to the accounts department and raised hell, then saw the administrator and did the same thing arguing that he had been resident in Thailand for 20 years, was married to her and was supporting her family and that this was shameful.

After causing them much embarrassment, the bill came down to 48,000 baht, which she informed my friend was the price that a Thai would have to pay in this hospital.

I don't know how many more examples you want, but of course it matters what is being charged, because if for no other reason I just want to be treated fairly and not ripped off and surely that is everybody's right.

Again, so you got a choice. Don't got to a hospital you feel is ripping you off. Would you go to a car dealership that had a reputation for charging double? Assuming that we have have brains, everyone can decide whats a good value and what being fleeced. If you consider buying health care any different that buying any other commodity, well that is a problem

I think you are missing the point............ if I wish to go to the two best hospitals on this island and do not want to be in bed in some of the other hospitals around, a couple of which I have visited and found to be (IMO) "unsatisfactory", then I should expect to get fair value for money or as someone put it "not be ripped off".

The whole thing is about ethics and there is absolutely nothing ethical about charging farangs four or five times more than for the same operation on a Thai person, nor for that matter bumping up the cost if insurance is going to pay for it. It is unethical, dishonest, and not in the best interests of the patient.

In fact just yesterday I read that the General has decided to look into the costs charged by private hospitals because of the feedback that they are just too expensive and are "rip-off merchants".

This is not about "having a choice to go somewhere else" this is about good business practices, ethics and honesty.

Then if you worry about their business ethics, vote with your $.

These hospitals are profit driven, if you don't go there they won't make money, they change their way of doing business. The reason 'rip off' business' fold is that they eventually stop getting business.

So again I'm kinda bemused by why anyone would think a 'for profit' hospital won't charge whatever the market will bear. If you want a 'not for profit' hospital there are plenty out there to choose from

[nickcar]

Bumrungrad hospital ranked number 9 in the world

http://www.ontoplists.com/2015/04/top-10-hospitals-in-world.html

[baboon]

Well here is the thing regarding private hospitals in Thailand and the all know farang's complaining about them....you don't have to use them you know

The thing is most who are whinging one suspects have come from nanny states which afforded them "free" access to medical treatment, moving to Thailand they believe the private hospitals should afford them the same service.

As someone who has been on private medical insurance the vast majority of my life, in quite a few locations in the world, including some so called enlightened/first world countries, Thailand private hospitals are not that expensive and the service/care is some of the best I have ever received anywhere,

Mister, these are hospitals we are talking about, not bloody noodle stands. I hardly think terms like "whinging" and throwaway comments like "You don't have to use them" are at all in good taste considering there are lives that can be at stake.

[nickcar]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anaesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

[blueyeshk]

Even considering their sometimes better equipment and service I felt a big change in prices in recent years and feel now horrible overcharged got used to semi private once or other options without this money extraction factories u still can maintain good care

Edited April 30, 2015 by blueyeshk

[jamie2009]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anaesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

[abrahamzvi]

Bumrungrad hospital out patient visits are as expensive as Australian GPS, so is medication

I totally disagree. For a normal visit to a GPS in Bumrungrad hospital you would pay a total of BHT400 to 600. You would pay at least double that in Australia. Wouldn't you?

I have been to Bumrungrad 3 times for "normal visits". Just smaller problems. Every time I have paid more than 4-600 baht

It seems you compare apples to oranges. I am sure your visits to Bumrungrad entailed more than just seeing a GPS. Probably you had some tests (blood, urine, X-Rays etc) and had some medicines.

[abrahamzvi]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

Nickcar: Again I had a completely different experience in a private "expensive " hospital in Bangkok

referred to above a number of times. The physician really tried to convince me that a biopsy is not that painful that it required an anesthetic. He succeeded, but I wish he hadn't. It was rather painful - maybe I am too sensitive to pains....

[nickcar]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

Nickcar: Again I had a completely different experience in a private "expensive " hospital in Bangkok

referred to above a number of times. The physician really tried to convince me that a biopsy is not that painful that it required an anesthetic. He succeeded, but I wish he hadn't. It was rather painful - maybe I am too sensitive to pains....

I would love to know that dr name and the hospital. The last time i enquired a biopsy was around 40,000 baht including general anaesthetic should have been much less without the GA. I hope you guys all know that the PSA test has been pretty much discredited as anything but a mild indicator of possible cancer. A rectal exam is needed plus a rectal scan at least before a biopsy is required. In my experience my PSA went up and down like a yoyo which greatly puzzled the urologist. Until i read somewhere that one should not ejaculate for at least 3/4 days before a PSA test and since then my tests have been fairly normal.

I note that a bad biopsy can destroy your sex life, and certainly any treatment for diagnosed cancer will destroy your sex life. And that most cancers are so slow that you will usually die of something else.

[xylophone]

Quote GinBoy2: "Then if you worry about their business ethics, vote with your $" and "Assuming that we have have brains, everyone can decide whats a good value and what being fleeced"

I would be Interested to know how your suggestions would help the older gentleman in my first post who was taken into hospital under somewhat of an emergency, and was presented with a grossly inflated bill two days later when he was discharged?

Or a friend of mine, now sadly deceased, who had the same thing happen to him, only to find the bill was over 500,000 baht when he was discharged. Luckily his Thai wife challenged the bill and several items were "taken off", eventually saving him about 150,000 baht.

I have private insurance here and have had for much of my life so it really doesn't affect me directly, however indirectly it affects the premiums I pay, and indeed the premiums just about everybody else pays, and of course it affects the poor person who doesn't have medical insurance and who does end up getting ripped off.

And of course there is the "corruption" aspect which many of the TV members rail against, because one of the definitions of corruption is: – "Wrongdoing on the part of an authority or powerful party (and this can mean a business) through means that are illegitimate, immoral, or incompatible with ethical standards".

It is immoral and incompatible with ethical standards to fleece an individual who needs urgent medical care.

[jamie2009]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

Nickcar: Again I had a completely different experience in a private "expensive " hospital in Bangkok

referred to above a number of times. The physician really tried to convince me that a biopsy is not that painful that it required an anesthetic. He succeeded, but I wish he hadn't. It was rather painful - maybe I am too sensitive to pains....

I would love to know that dr name and the hospital. The last time i enquired a biopsy was around 40,000 baht including general anaesthetic should have been much less without the GA. I hope you guys all know that the PSA test has been pretty much discredited as anything but a mild indicator of possible cancer. A rectal exam is needed plus a rectal scan at least before a biopsy is required. In my experience my PSA went up and down like a yoyo which greatly puzzled the urologist. Until i read somewhere that one should not ejaculate for at least 3/4 days before a PSA test and since then my tests have been fairly normal.

I note that a bad biopsy can destroy your sex life, and certainly any treatment for diagnosed cancer will destroy your sex life. And that most cancers are so slow that you will usually die of something else.

The PSA is only an indictator, mine was 8, for my age should be no more than 4. DRE found nothing abnormal about my prostate, I had the choice of another blood test or a biopsy, I decided a biopsy the result was cancer, Gleeson Level 6, this was followed by a MRI scan which indicated the cancer was contained in my prostate with an overall involvement of 7%. The Uroligists recommendation was Active Surveillance, blood test and a DRE every three months but he also said I could have treatment at any time. I went along with his recommendation, my PSA has dropped to below 2 in the last year therefore if I had a blood test now my cancer would not have been detected. They will never screen men in the UK as the PSA test is so unreliable, currently it's the only method currently available and also testing can make men have unnecessary biopsies and surgery. Surgery is improving, there is now treatment called cyber knifing which detects the radiation directly on to the tumour resulting in less damage to the surrounding tissue. I have never heard of a biopsy affecting some ones sex life but the treatment can along with incontinence. Before a PSA, no sex or physical exercise for 48 hours before the test. Edited April 30, 2015 by jamie2009

[nickcar]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

Nickcar: Again I had a completely different experience in a private "expensive " hospital in Bangkok

referred to above a number of times. The physician really tried to convince me that a biopsy is not that painful that it required an anesthetic. He succeeded, but I wish he hadn't. It was rather painful - maybe I am too sensitive to pains....

I would love to know that dr name and the hospital. The last time i enquired a biopsy was around 40,000 baht including general anaesthetic should have been much less without the GA. I hope you guys all know that the PSA test has been pretty much discredited as anything but a mild indicator of possible cancer. A rectal exam is needed plus a rectal scan at least before a biopsy is required. In my experience my PSA went up and down like a yoyo which greatly puzzled the urologist. Until i read somewhere that one should not ejaculate for at least 3/4 days before a PSA test and since then my tests have been fairly normal.

I note that a bad biopsy can destroy your sex life, and certainly any treatment for diagnosed cancer will destroy your sex life. And that most cancers are so slow that you will usually die of something else.

The PSA is only an indictator, mine was 8, for my age should be no more than 4. DRE found nothing abnormal about my prostate, I had the choice of another blood test or a biopsy, I decided a biopsy the result was cancer, Gleeson Level 6, this was followed by a MRI scan which indicated the cancer was contained in my prostate with an overall involvement of 7%. The Uroligists recommendation was Active Surveillance, blood test and a DRE every three months but he also said I could have treatment at any time. I went along with his recommendation, my PSA has dropped to below 2 in the last year therefore if I had a blood test now my cancer would not have been detected. They will never screen men in the UK as the PSA test is so unreliable, currently it's the only method currently available and also testing can make men have unnecessary biopsies and surgery. Surgery is improving, there is now treatment called cyber knifing which detects the radiation directly on to the tumour resulting in less damage to the surrounding tissue. I have never heard of a biopsy affecting some ones sex life but the treatment can along with incontinence. Before a PSA, no sex or physical exercise for 48 hours before the test.

I assume this was the same dr in bkk who did a biopsy without General anaesthetic. I am most impressed, i have always been afraid doctors would recommend radical treatment when it isn't called for. Again i would love to know the dr and hospital. Can you message me if you don't want to publish?

[jamie2009]

I agree with most of the complaints about overcharging, but not all. If a hospital charges 3/4 times for medicine that can be found in most good chemists then i do not think that is a good reason to complain. After all we are all capable of finding a good chemist. However stories like the one about a Phuket hospital who's doctors were willing to carry out unnecessary procedures are abhorrent. How can we expect a good standard of care from doctors who behave like this?

There are some standard practices in Thai private hospitals that puzzle me. My particular example is a prostate biopsy. Thai private hospitals insist in a general anesthetic, if you want it done with just a local then use a government hospital. It is standard practice in NZ to do it with a local so it does seem like profiteering. A friend who had it done in NZ was asked by the doctor if he needed an injection when he went to the dentist. He was told if he didn't then he didn't need even a local for the biopsy.

Practices like charging a higher fee for foreigners than for Thais is also out of place in a hospital. This is medical treatment we are talking about. Of course it has to be profitable but it should not be greedy.

I had a biopsy in the UK, it was slightly uncomfarble but certainly not painful, didn't warrant a General Anasthetic, certainly had a lot more painful visits to the dentist. The downside was I picked a Water Infection up, 3% chance of, took me 4 weeks to get rid off. It was only after 3/4 lots of antibiotics that they decided to send a sample to the lab to analyse and match the infection to an antibiotic. The lesson I learned was always have the sample sent to the Lab. I was going to complain but the Docs'closed 'ranks'

Nickcar: Again I had a completely different experience in a private "expensive " hospital in Bangkok

referred to above a number of times. The physician really tried to convince me that a biopsy is not that painful that it required an anesthetic. He succeeded, but I wish he hadn't. It was rather painful - maybe I am too sensitive to pains....

I would love to know that dr name and the hospital. The last time i enquired a biopsy was around 40,000 baht including general anaesthetic should have been much less without the GA. I hope you guys all know that the PSA test has been pretty much discredited as anything but a mild indicator of possible cancer. A rectal exam is needed plus a rectal scan at least before a biopsy is required. In my experience my PSA went up and down like a yoyo which greatly puzzled the urologist. Until i read somewhere that one should not ejaculate for at least 3/4 days before a PSA test and since then my tests have been fairly normal.

I note that a bad biopsy can destroy your sex life, and certainly any treatment for diagnosed cancer will destroy your sex life. And that most cancers are so slow that you will usually die of something else.

The PSA is only an indictator, mine was 8, for my age should be no more than 4. DRE found nothing abnormal about my prostate, I had the choice of another blood test or a biopsy, I decided a biopsy the result was cancer, Gleeson Level 6, this was followed by a MRI scan which indicated the cancer was contained in my prostate with an overall involvement of 7%. The Uroligists recommendation was Active Surveillance, blood test and a DRE every three months but he also said I could have treatment at any time. I went along with his recommendation, my PSA has dropped to below 2 in the last year therefore if I had a blood test now my cancer would not have been detected. They will never screen men in the UK as the PSA test is so unreliable, currently it's the only method currently available and also testing can make men have unnecessary biopsies and surgery. Surgery is improving, there is now treatment called cyber knifing which detects the radiation directly on to the tumour resulting in less damage to the surrounding tissue. I have never heard of a biopsy affecting some ones sex life but the treatment can along with incontinence. Before a PSA, no sex or physical exercise for 48 hours before the test.

I assume this was the same dr in bkk who did a biopsy without General anaesthetic. I am most impressed, i have always been afraid doctors would recommend radical treatment when it isn't called for. Again i would love to know the dr and hospital. Can you message me if you don't want to publish?

It was done in the UK, I am from there.