3% Credit Card Charge

[Pib]

My Natwest Mastercard charges a 'Non Sterling Transaction Fee'. So there is no advantage in paying in the local currency (any more).

"Non Sterling Transaction Fee" is probably just another way of saying "Foreign Transaction Fee." For many cards even if you get hit-up for a DCC transaction which gives you a ballpark 3% lower exchange your card-issuing bank may still charge a Foreign Transaction Fee simply because the transaction was done outside of your home country and not simply because the transaction was in a foreign/local currency. The rules will vary from bank to bank as to if they apply the fee...I wouldn't want to say each bank does it the same way because I know they don't.

But let's say Natwest does "not" charge the "non sterling transaction fee" because a DCC transaction charged the account in sterling...in this case you avoid say the 3% non sterling transaction fee" but you still got hit with the approx 3% DCC lower exchange rate so like you said there is no advantage. But this example assumes Natwest would not apply the non-sterling fee for a DCC transaciton; however, if they still do since it was simply a foreign transaction then paying in the local currency is still to your advantage in order to avoid the lower DCC rate.

[NancyL]

Back when Hubby and I ran a greenhouse/nursery business we found that the customer who paid with credit cards spent the most money. We encouraged credit card sales!

I've pointed this out time and time again to David, the owner of Dukes and River Market Restaurant in Chiang Mai, about the only place I can think of that I regularly patronize that charges that ridiculous 3% service charge for credit card use. At least some of his restaurants are close to Bangkok Bank ATM machines, where I can get more cash, but River Market isn't.

I did a study on the spending habits of our greenhouse/nursery customers -- credit card vs. cash vs. check for the average size of a purchase -- for one retail season. I can't see where the decision to order another round of drinks or dessert isn't a whole lot different than the decision of throwing another rose bush on your nursery cart when you know you don't have to worry about how much cash is in your wallet. I wish I could get Dave to see the logic.

Edited May 1, 2015 by NancyL

[wooloomooloo]

Well, using a credit card in Thailand COULD cost you an extra 6% in fees. But it certainly doesn't have to -- if you're smart about it.

1. use a home country credit card that doesn't charge any foreign currency conversion fee for purchases abroad.

2. make sure the Thai merchants you buy from are ringing up the transaction in Thai baht, which will get the normal VISA or MC network exchange rates. And don't accept it if they try to ring it up in your home country's currency at a terrible exchange rate, which is known as DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion).

3. don't do business with Thai merchants who want to try to add-on their own extra surcharge for using a credit card vs cash, like the 3% amount the OP asked about.

Do those things, and you can responsibly use a foreign credit card here without getting gouged.

Excellent post, John.

I recently applied for the Halifax Clarity Card (UK) and gave it a run out to Europe for a long weekend and used it often [no transaction charges at all]. Used it in shops and at the ATMs and was extremely happy with my month-end statement. No charges at ATMs or the shops. Though, took care at ATMs as providers f/x rate defaults to their own unfavourable rate unless you hit 'no' which then provides you the MC f/x rate. Cheeky sods.

A small point is that I wouldn't use this card in a Thai ATM as I would be hit with 180 baht charge per transaction, regardless.

My wife and I take holiday to LOS this weekend and will go to local Bangkok Bank branch to draw money on my credit card when required to avoid ATM charge. I will continue to be careful of accepting some random f/x rate. Saying that, I would only draw funds in my wife's local BB branch as we are familiar with the staff due to my having an account at their branch for the last few years and I don't expect that they'd pull a fast one. It wouldn't be the done thing, but I remain diligent, nonetheless.

This is, without a doubt, the best credit card for foreign travel that I possess, as long as my eyes are open.

The MasterCard f/x rate is extremely competitive, as long as it is applied correctly. Just be careful and research.

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

Be sure to keep in mind that while the Clarity card apparently does not charge a foreign transaction or cash advance fee (like my Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards) interest does start accumulating from day one unlike for purchases. To avoid this interest charge you need to be able to pay off the cash advance immediately or maybe prepay/put a credit on your balance. I use my PenFed credit cards all the time to do counter cash advances at Thai banks because I can get more per day than with my no foreign transaction fee debit cards...I then logon to my PenFed account and immediately pay off the cash advance. Yeap, don't forget the interest will start accumulating from day one.

Thanks, though, as I stated, research is the key. I am aware that cash advances accrue immediate interest but it's negligible if you settle promptly.

I should also point out that you can't pre-load the card to avoid cash advance interest.

Simply sign in to online banking and credit your account to settle the balance as soon as possible. Personally, I'll settle month-end anyway as the interest is entirely reasonable and affordable.

[jdinasia]

Get an itemized receipt. Submit it to your credit card company.

[Pib]

Thanks, though, as I stated, research is the key. I am aware that cash advances accrue immediate interest but it's negligible if you settle promptly.

I should also point out that you can't pre-load the card to avoid cash advance interest.

Simply sign in to online banking and credit your account to settle the balance as soon as possible. Personally, I'll settle month-end anyway as the interest is entirely reasonable and affordable.

Now I can't speak to whether or not the Halifax credit card can be preloaded or not, but my PenFed credit card "can" be preloaded. But there is a little bit of trick to it. If say your balance today was $0 and your tried to preload/pay any amount "today" it would reject because it says the amount exceeds your current credit card balance. Same would happen say if my balance was say $100 and I tried to pay/load $101...it would reject because trying to pay/load any amount that "exceeds your current balance" is no longer allowed with the PenFed card (but it use to be up until Jan 15 and I did it numerous time)...if I wanted to pay the $100 today I had to pay $100 only. But they changed their system a little at the beginning of the year.

However, now the trick is to schedule the payment for anytime "after today," like tomorrow (i.e., a future payment of at least one day) and the preload/payment occurs no problem. So, I could schedule a payment (preload) for tomorrow..say $2,000...it will be accepted/process OK, and when I go do my counter withdrawal tomorrow using the credit card the withdrawal is already covered by the payment (preload). That is, a payment of $2,000 and a withdrawal of almost $2,000 worth of baht is hitting the PenFed system on the same day...an if by chance I don't go do the withdrawal tomorrow but instead a few days or even weeks later there is no problem because that future payment has already loaded. But I always go do it the next day because I don't want a big credit on my account for more than a few days. This is what I've been doing since January ...been doing it at a Bangkok Bank branch and a Krungsri Bank branch close to me.

.

And I'll have to admit, a few times I have just went did the withdrawal today, logged onto my PenFed account today, and made a future payment or tomorrow which ended up costing me one day interest which amounted to about 43 cents (approx Bt14). The withdrawal has not posted to my PenFed account yet, but I just schedule a payment for tomorrow, and when the dust settles the payment is one day after they withdrawal...one day of interest accured which has been around 43 centc/Bt14.....that sure beats two times Bt180 as I would have to do two ATM withdrawals to equal the higher amount I can withdraw with my credit card in one counter withdrawal.

Speaking of credit card cash amount, be sure to check what your daily cash advance amount is...do not assume it equals your "cash advance line of credit" as it probably don't. My PenFed cash advance line of credit is HIGH but the daily amount you can get is limited to $2,000 at a financial institution(counter withdrawal), $1,000 at an ATM, and/or $3,000 via ibanking for a total of $5,000 per day...but the only amount I care amount is the amount allowed at an financial institution (at the counter)...and I'm not going to use the card in a ATM because the Bt180 foreign card fee would not be reimbursed.

Have you tried making a "future dated" payment that exceeds your balance (even if the balance is 0)? Maybe the Halifax system works the same way as the PenFed system does. Cheers.

[Tomtomtom69]

I've lived in Thailand for many years at this point, and can't recall more than a handful of isolated cases where the local merchant wanted to charge me an extra fee for using my bank card.

Usually, they either don't take any credit cards, only take them above a certain bill amount, or do take them without any extra charge.

The bigger issue is people's home country banks often adding a 3% or more foreign currency/foreign transaction fee to everything you do outside your home country, ATM withdrawal or purchase.

My experiences are the same as yours, I use my credit card extensively in Thailand, in fact probably for about half of all purchases I make here. In my experience, only smaller stores are likely to add an extra percentage fee to accept a credit card anyway.

Hotels, supermarkets, petrol/gas stations, chain restaurants as well as many independent larger restaurants, stores in shopping malls, major tyre shops and many other types of merchants never add any surcharges.

[rak sa_ngop]

I should also point out that you can't pre-load the card to avoid cash advance interest.

I am surprised to hear this comment. I have a Natwest Mastercard (the old Access card) and I have been keeping it in credit for years. I have never had a payment disallowed.either at a bank, or by online payments.

The reason I kept the credit was that I was still using a UK address for the card so I would only get to see the bills every 3 or 4 months. This way I wouldn't fall into the red and pay the overdue penalties.

Mind you I never made a cash advance, but why would that incur charges if it was within my credit amount?

[Swiss1960]

I should also point out that you can't pre-load the card to avoid cash advance interest.

I am surprised to hear this comment. I have a Natwest Mastercard (the old Access card) and I have been keeping it in credit for years. I have never had a payment disallowed.either at a bank, or by online payments.

The reason I kept the credit was that I was still using a UK address for the card so I would only get to see the bills every 3 or 4 months. This way I wouldn't fall into the red and pay the overdue penalties.

Mind you I never made a cash advance, but why would that incur charges if it was within my credit amount?

Two things:

First: for your question "why would that incur a charge it it was within my credit amount", the answer is simple: Your Issuing bank (here Natwest) will be charged with a Interchange Cash Advance Fee by VISA / MasterCard when you use your credit card for cash advance and this fee will be given to the Acquiring Bank who owns the ATM where you used your card. This is independant from whether or not you have credit on your card or not. It is completely up to your bank whether they wave tha cash advance fee towards you or not.

Second: While I understand the reason why you have credit on your card, it of course obliterates the meaning of "credit" and your card is then no more than either a pre-paid credit card or even a debit card. Depending on how much your bank charges for the credit card (i.e. annual fees), it might be worth while for you to look into cheaper options like pre-paid cards or debit cards with Online purchase options.

[Pib]

Yeap, an interchange fee is paid to the local bank by the card-issuing bank on a debit or credit card for cash withdrawals and it's up to your card-issuing bank if they pass that fee to you...most card-issuers do; some don't--like my PenFed credit cards. Below image from Visa shows what that fee will be depending whether it comes from an ATM or a counter (manual) withdrawal...I expect Mastercard's interchange fee is very similar. And the interchange fee is separate from the local ATM fee like the Thai bank ATM fee of Bt180 for most foreign cards and the card network currency exchange fee of around 1%. How and if these fees are passed along to you is totally up to your card issuing. The goal is to find a card that does not pass along any fees and also reimburses local ATM fees.

And most credit cards seem to have an annual fee, but some don't....like my PenFed credit cards do not have an annual fee. In fact, every credit card I have (U.S. cards) does not charge an annual fee because a card with no annual fee is one of my prerequisites when getting a card. But I realize it varies from country to country in how easy or hard it is to get cards with no annual fee plus these other fees we have been talking about such as no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee.

While debit/credit cards with no foreign transaction fee are in the minority of cards, credit cards with no cash advance fee is in an even smaller minority....most charge around 3% and that 3% cash advance fee is not to be confused with a 3% foreign transaction fee commonly charged. Of all my U.S. credit cards from various banks/companies while all are no annual fee cards, most have no foreign transaction fee, the PenFed cards are the only ones with no cash advance fee. And I can get a higher daily amount than using my debit cards which is a real plus...fewer runs to the bank to get money.

It a person can get a credit card which has no foreign transaction fee, no cash advance fee, and you can preload/pay same day to avoid an interest charge at all, then a person has a valuable tool to avoid money getting/transfer fee and maybe a "principle of the thing" in not giving the Thai bank an additional fee of Bt180 whether you have to pay it or not in case you card reimburses that fee...just one less fee going into the banksters' pocket. Heck, you can even use it as a card just to purchase items on credit along with some cash back/reward points.

[Pib]

Mind you I never made a cash advance, but why would that incur charges if it was within my credit amount?

Most (not all) credit cards have a 3% cash advance fee. So if your credit card has a cash advance fee you would still pay that fee even if you had a credit balance that immediately paid off the advance off with no interest charge.

[meltingpot2015]

Well, using a credit card in Thailand COULD cost you an extra 6% in fees. But it certainly doesn't have to -- if you're smart about it.

1. use a home country credit card that doesn't charge any foreign currency conversion fee for purchases abroad.

2. make sure the Thai merchants you buy from are ringing up the transaction in Thai baht, which will get the normal VISA or MC network exchange rates. And don't accept it if they try to ring it up in your home country's currency at a terrible exchange rate, which is known as DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion).

3. don't do business with Thai merchants who want to try to add-on their own extra surcharge for using a credit card vs cash, like the 3% amount the OP asked about.

Do those things, and you can responsibly use a foreign credit card here without getting gouged.

Excellent post, John.

I recently applied for the Halifax Clarity Card (UK) and gave it a run out to Europe for a long weekend and used it often [no transaction charges at all]. Used it in shops and at the ATMs and was extremely happy with my month-end statement. No charges at ATMs or the shops. Though, took care at ATMs as providers f/x rate defaults to their own unfavourable rate unless you hit 'no' which then provides you the MC f/x rate. Cheeky sods.

A small point is that I wouldn't use this card in a Thai ATM as I would be hit with 180 baht charge per transaction, regardless.

My wife and I take holiday to LOS this weekend and will go to local Bangkok Bank branch to draw money on my credit card when required to avoid ATM charge. I will continue to be careful of accepting some random f/x rate. Saying that, I would only draw funds in my wife's local BB branch as we are familiar with the staff due to my having an account at their branch for the last few years and I don't expect that they'd pull a fast one. It wouldn't be the done thing, but I remain diligent, nonetheless.

This is, without a doubt, the best credit card for foreign travel that I possess, as long as my eyes are open.

The MasterCard f/x rate is extremely competitive, as long as it is applied correctly. Just be careful and research.

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

Has anyone used the Mastercard Currency Conversion Tool to get the exchange rate for a transaction done recently, say 30 April 2015. I can only select a date up to 20 March 2015.

[Pib]

Works fine for me.

[meltingpot2015]

Tried a different web browser and it works. Settlement date up to 07 May 2015. Hurray!,

[Chicog]

I know only about Visa, M/C and Amex. It's strictly in violation of the store's merchant agreement. Of course the credit card issuers don't want them doing that and discouraging use. They would lose their merchant status if caught

Since the merchant signing bank would lose the fees they charge the merchants, they tend to turn a blind eye to the practice if it is considered the norm (and in Thailand it is).

It is against the rules, but no-one says you have to pay it. If they insist on it, walk out.

In the West these fees are negotiable and tend to vary according to the type of store; in a supermarket it would be a fraction of a percent, whereas in a luxury goods shop it would be much higher.

My guess is that the Thai banks are the ones trying to squeeze as much as they can out of the system.

[meltingpot2015]

Works fine for me.

Capture.JPG

The settlement date on the M/C conversion tool is always Mon-Fri. Rates are not available for Sat and Sun. See below:

So in effect, if you have a Mastercard, you could not have a Sat-Sun settlement date on your bank (Credit Card) statement?. Is this correct?.

If you complete a transaction on Sat-Sun, the settlement date will be Mon, Tue or Wed?

Edited May 13, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

@Pib:

its just that I have one of the UK cards that offer no ATM fees on overseas withdrawals. its not the Clarity card, its the zero mastercard by Santander, which is no longer offered to new customers.

Did an ATM withdrawal on Sunday 10 May 2015, it has been posted on my account as 10 May 2015, the rate used is 51.32, but when I check the Mastercard currency converter tool for the rate on 11 May 2015 the rate is 51.88. However, the currency conversion tool rate for Friday 08 May 2015 is 51.32.

So the bank is using the rate at close of business on Friday, if the transaction was done on Sunday. Probably the same applies for a transaction done on Saturday too.

Edited May 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Pib]

Usually for Mastercard if they don't show a rate for Saturday and Sunday the Friday rate carries through for Saturday and Sunday until the Monday rate comes out.

And Visa use to be that way but it looks like now they list a rate for Saturday and Sunday which will usually be the same...and even carry through for Monday.

A debit card transaction will settle same day. But a credit card transaction will take a business day or two (or three) to settle (maybe even longer if the merchant is slow in finalizing their processing actions)...you get the card network rate for the settlement date.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Pib

[meltingpot2015]

Reading a post from before, I was of the opinion that the bank used the Mastercard Credit card network rate at the close of business on the date of transaction (i.e. you don't see the m/c rate in advance). Therefore, if the transaction was on a weekend, Monday's rate will be used.

Visa credit cards on the other hand using the rate from the day before (apart from Saturday and Sunday when Friday's rate will be used).

It would have made it simpler to figure out a rule-of-thumb that way..Visa Credit Card = exchange rate set the day before.

Mastercard Credit Card = Exchange rate set at close of business on the day.

There goes that rule of thumb.

Edited May 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

Usually for Mastercard if they don't show a rate for Saturday and Sunday the Friday rate carries through for Saturday and Sunday until the Monday rate comes out.

And Visa use to be that way but it looks like now they list a rate for Saturday and Sunday which will usually be the same...and even carry through for Monday.

A debit card transaction will settle same day. But a credit card transaction will take a business day or two (or three) to settle (maybe even longer if the merchant is slow in finalizing their processing actions)...you get the card network rate for the settlement date.

But a credit card transaction will take a business day or two (or three) to settle (maybe even longer if the merchant is slow in finalizing their processing actions)...you get the card network rate for the settlement date.

For a Merchant retailer possibly. I am talking about ATM pulls, where you could potentially end-up with a settlement date before the transaction date!.

If you think about it, literally, you have a transaction that was settled before it was even carried out.

Edited May 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Pib]

Yes for an ATM pull the transaction date/time of your card issuing bank could be on the other side of the Earth like the time difference between the US and Thailand. So, the person needs to consider the time zone used by his bank and/or the reference time the card networks switch to the next day rates.

[meltingpot2015]

Yes for an ATM pull the transaction date/time of your card issuing bank could be on the other side of the Earth like the time difference between the US and Thailand. So, the person needs to consider the time zone used by his bank and/or the reference time the card networks switch to the next day rates.

the person needs to consider the time zone used by his bank

This bit is easy. I made ATM withdrawal on 10 May 2015 at 17:22 in Bangkok, Thailand. Time in UK at the point of ATM withdrawal was 11:22. Just for clarity, the date is 10 May 2015 both in Bangkok, Thailand and UK. We are not speaking of an instance where the ATM withdrawal was done at 03:00 in Thailand, then of course it would 21:00 of the previous day in UK.

So, my ATM withdrawal on Sunday could not possibly be "settled" on Friday due to time zone used by issuing bank. Even if Santander does not use GMT, and use a time zone that is near +-24 hours difference in comparison to Thailand, it would (could) not mean that the transaction was done on Friday.

and/or the reference time the card networks switch to the next day rates

You cannot seriously suggest that we should "consider" this. How?. Please can you post a link to a Mastercard source (or any reliable source) where it says "We switch to the next day's rates at this time, and the time zone we use is...."

[Pib]

and/or the reference time the card networks switch to the next day rates

You cannot seriously suggest that we should "consider" this. How?. Please can you post a link to a Mastercard source (or any reliable source) where it says "We switch to the next day's rates at this time, and the time zone we use is...."

You must consider this. Now I predominately use my Visa card debit and credit cards...I only occasionally use one Mastercard credit card. Excluding Visa cards issued by European banks, the Visa exchange rates change at midnight U.S. Eastern Time which right now since the U.S. is on daylight savings time is 11am the next day Thailand. When the U.S. is not on daylight savings time it's a 12 hours difference...midnight U.S. Eastern Time is high noon Thailand. So, for U.S. folks due to the approx 12 or 11 hour time difference they need to take this into consideration when doing a withdrawal in Thailand if they are watching the Visa rates closely for whatever reason/trying to compare the exchange rate that hit their account compared to what is posted on the Visa exchange rate page. If I had made an ATM withdrawal say this morning/14 May at 10:59am Thailand time I would have got Visa's 13 May exchange rate as it's still 13 May in the U.S.....and if I made another one at 11:01am/14May Thailand time I would have got Visa's 14 May exchange rate since it's also now 14 May in the US. Will you see this reference exchange rate switching time posted anywhere on the Visa website...no. I've never seen it...I only know that's the time from use of my U.S. Visa debit cards and watching the Visa site closely as to when the next day rates appear.

I have two U.S. Visa debit cards from different banks...both no foreign transaction fee cards. I have used one card in the morning (around 10am) and got one rate and used the other card after lunch around 2pm and got another rate. When checking the Visa page the two rates I got matched exactly the rates for the two different dates in the U.S. since I did the withdrawal just before and right after Visa exchange rate switching time of midnight U.S. Eastern Time.

I have also used both cards within minutes of each other say in the morning (say around 9am for both withdrawals) or afternoon (say 2pm for both withdrawals) Thailand time and got exactly the same rate since both for both withdrawals it was the same date in the US.

I do not know the the time VisaEurope rate change...I never watched it closely since I don't have Visa cards issued by European banks....VisaEurope may be on GMT time or maybe they use the same time as Visa used for the rest of the world. I don't know. Plus the time difference is not as great between Europe and Thailand as compared to the US. to impact folks with European bank issued Visa cards....less chance of being caught between two different dates.

With my Mastercard "credit card" it always just used for purchases (no cash withdrawals) and a person always has a 1, 2, or 3 day settlement/posting date from date of actual use to the date the charge settles/posts for credit cards...you get the exchange rate for the settlement date; not the actual date of transaction. I really don't have much of any control over trying to get the best exchange rate based on possibly timing of my purchase during the day due to settlement delay. Plus, I'm not sure when Mastercard changes its exchange rate daily...their rate page is always approx one day behind unlike Visa's....don't know what Mastercard's magic hour exchange rate update/switch time is...what time zone it's referenced to...but they do indeed have such a time. Also, Mastercard occasionally updates their rates more than twice a day for some currencies...don't know what times they use for that.

I expect since we have approx 40 times zones around our world (some with only 30 minute differences which expands it from 24 hourly zones to around 40 total time zones), Visa and Mastercard don't want to post a specific reference time they switch rates...plus at least Mastercard updates rates for some currencies more than once a day apparently when there are significant forex market changes. Plus, I expect the great majority of folks do not track exchange rates at the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate pages; instead they just look at the rate that hit their bank/credit card account without regard time zones around our big world which can impact what exchange rate you got from Visa/Mastercard without taking in the other variables like foreign transactions fees which effects the rate hitting a person's account.

[samuijimmy]

Even the Government hospitals charge 3% when paying with credit card...

Stores like: Tesco, Big C, Tops, Powerbuy, Home Mart, do not add anything.... & some of the other higher volume stores (on Samui) don't add extra...

Except some of the national computer stores a seem to add various rates depending on type of overseas card (Regular or Gold or Platinum etc) .... that's a total ripe off from 3 to 6 %

[meltingpot2015]

I expect since we have approx 40 times zones around our world (some with only 30 minute differences which expands it from 24 hourly zones to around 40 total time zones), Visa and Mastercard don't want to post a specific reference time they switch rates...

They could just post a time pegged to EDT (New york), PDT (los Angeles), or GMT (london, UK).

plus at least Mastercard updates rates for some currencies more than once a day apparently when there are significant forex market changes.

This is how come I am asking, how on earth are we able to "consider" all these, when there is no clear indication when all these changes happen.

Plus, I expect the great majority of folks do not track exchange rates at the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate pages

Somewhat, speculative, wouldn't you say?. minority/majority, The tools are available online for us to keep track.

instead they just look at the rate that hit their bank/credit card account without regard time zones around our big world which can impact what exchange rate you got from Visa/Mastercard without taking in the other variables like foreign transactions fees which effects the rate hitting a person's account

But we were discussing how to keep track..now we are simply saying, there's just too many time zones, so we cannot possibly keep track. That's just "throwing the towel in". The other variables are the foreign transaction fees. The rate offered also affects foreign transaction fees of some cards. Yes. e.g. some UK cards charge a non-sterling transaction fee.

Also, isn't this whole time zone aspect with regards to updating currencies confusing the discussion. The rate updates happen according to currency, not time zone.

[Pib]

Yes, several variables to take into consideration when trying to figure out why the exchange rate that hits our bank/credit card account is different from the exchange rate on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page. Maybe a person is just using the wrong date....like.one day off.

A person just can't assume because say it's 10am/14May in whatever time zone you are currently located in that will mean you will get a 14 May Visa/Mastercard exchange rate even for a debt card transactions that settles immediately because whatever timezone the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is pegged to change each day at is probably going to be different. I have used my Visa debit card early in the morning in Thailand...say 9am and the transaction that logs to my U.S. bank account is the "day before" since it's still the day before in the US (around 9pm the day before) and I get that matching day Visa rate. Now, if, repeat if, Visa cards issued by European banks say are linked to GMT time then that 9pm time in Thailand would be 3am GMT same day due to only a 6 hour difference...much less likelihood of the actual transaction date differing from the Visa system date used for exchange rates.

There have been times where I wanted to use both my no foreign transaction fee debit cards to pull a total of $2,000 worth of baht and knowing the forex market changes would mostly likely cause the next day's Visa rate to go down, I've done the withdrawals early in the morning around 10am in Thailand but and got Visa previous day rate (referenced to US date/time)...and then taking a look at the Visa exchange rate page a few hours when it switched to the current date the rate had indeed went down...but like I said I did it early enough in the morning for my US Visa cards to get the previous day rate.

Like the Visa rate is midnight US Eastern Time based on my numerous uses of my card and watching the Visa exchange rate page change rates at approximate that magic time...sometimes they are a little tardy in updating the exchange rate page. I don't know what the VisaEurope's for European bank Visa cards magic time is since I don't track or have a Visa card issued by a European bank. Don't know what Mastercard's magic time is since I don't use one for debit card...only one for purchases which settles at least a day later due to how credit card transactions work.

But it's no biggie...if the exchange rate for your no foreign transaction fee don't exactly match to within a few decimal points the date you thought it occurred on in whatever location on Earth you did the transaction, then check the day before (or after) on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page and the rate should match exactly to within 2 or 3 decimal points...if it don't then your card is not a true no foreign transaction fee card.

[1BADDAT]

Many shops are charging an extra 3% if you want to pay with your credit card. If I am not mistaken, as in most other countries, this cost supposed to be absorbed by the seller, not the buyer. The few times I tried to explain this fact to the sales person in the shop, they simply reply that if you do not want to pay the extra 3% you just pay cash.

Any suggestions to persuade these shops to change there (illegal?) habit?

It's not illegal, they are just passing the cost to the consumer. Most businesses in the USA are smart enough to know the 3% they have to eat as a retailer (or less depending on the credit card) is just the cost of doing business.

I paid 165,000 baht for a cbr500 at Honda big wing (used) Their attitude is this is the policy and who cares. Not everyone gets paid or has access to THB. I could have went to the ATM and took out the money over a course of a week and got the money that way and end up paying more with bank fees.

Thailand has not yet adopted the global viewpoint on commerce and this helps them to lose sales daily. My advice is stand your ground, but unless you are negotiating with the owner, it generally falls on deaf and dumb ears from my experience.

[meltingpot2015]

Yes, several variables to take into consideration when trying to figure out why the exchange rate that hits our bank/credit card account is different from the exchange rate on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page. Maybe a person is just using the wrong date....like.one day off.

A person just can't assume because say it's 10am/14May in whatever time zone you are currently located in that will mean you will get a 14 May Visa/Mastercard exchange rate even for a debt card transactions that settles immediately because whatever timezone the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is pegged to change each day at is probably going to be different. I have used my Visa debit card early in the morning in Thailand...say 9am and the transaction that logs to my U.S. bank account is the "day before" since it's still the day before in the US (around 9pm the day before) and I get that matching day Visa rate. Now, if, repeat if, Visa cards issued by European banks say are linked to GMT time then that 9pm time in Thailand would be 3am GMT same day due to only a 6 hour difference...much less likelihood of the actual transaction date differing from the Visa system date used for exchange rates.

There have been times where I wanted to use both my no foreign transaction fee debit cards to pull a total of $2,000 worth of baht and knowing the forex market changes would mostly likely cause the next day's Visa rate to go down, I've done the withdrawals early in the morning around 10am in Thailand but and got Visa previous day rate (referenced to US date/time)...and then taking a look at the Visa exchange rate page a few hours when it switched to the current date the rate had indeed went down...but like I said I did it early enough in the morning for my US Visa cards to get the previous day rate.

Like the Visa rate is midnight US Eastern Time based on my numerous uses of my card and watching the Visa exchange rate page change rates at approximate that magic time...sometimes they are a little tardy in updating the exchange rate page. I don't know what the VisaEurope's for European bank Visa cards magic time is since I don't track or have a Visa card issued by a European bank. Don't know what Mastercard's magic time is since I don't use one for debit card...only one for purchases which settles at least a day later due to how credit card transactions work.

But it's no biggie...if the exchange rate for your no foreign transaction fee don't exactly match to within a few decimal points the date you thought it occurred on in whatever location on Earth you did the transaction, then check the day before (or after) on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page and the rate should match exactly to within 2 or 3 decimal points...if it don't then your card is not a true no foreign transaction fee card.

Remember I asked you on Sunday 10 May 2015, if the m/c conversion tool worked. And you send me a screen print to say that it did. See the link below:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/821132-3-credit-card-charge/page-2#entry9391309

The most recent date available then was 07 May 2015, right?

I used a different web browser and got the most recent date 07 May 2015. This is apparent in post #43 and #45

I checked the m/c tool on Monday 11 May 2015, rate for Monday and Friday was not available. Checked on Tuesday 12 May 2015. Rate for Friday Available, but not for Monday.

Check on Wednesday 13 May 2015 and then rates for both Friday and Monday were available.

To put it bluntly, I think we are being screwed by both Mastercard and the Banks (Banksters).

Mastercard decides on a rate based on "multiple market sources (such as Bloomberg, Reuters, Central Banks and others) to develop exchange rates", See below:

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

They post rates on the above site when they want. (Sometimes with a time lag of three days. as in the example above. e.g. Rates for 07 May available on 10 May). Also, with regards to updates, like you say in post #52:

Also, Mastercard occasionally updates their rates more than twice a day for some currencies...don't know what times they use for that.

We need to ask ourselves, how come?. Yes, they use various sources, but it does not stop them from posting rates at a certain time each day (based on a particular location, New york, London, Paris etc). If we don't see the Mastercard rate before the bank, the bank has the uncanny option of:

Using Friday's rate OR Mondays rate, basically pick whichever rate they like. If Monday's rate is 51.88. and Fridays'rate was 51.32, which one do you think the banksters would pick. Surely a no brainer. On days where the currency markets are volatile, like last weekend, it's a banksters dream come true.

A person just can't assume because say it's 10am/14May in whatever time zone you are currently located in that will mean you will get a 14 May Visa/Mastercard exchange rate even for a debt card transactions that settles immediately because whatever timezone the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is pegged to change each day at is probably going to be different.

Nice try!. But I have already covered this in post #51. See below:

This bit is easy. I made ATM withdrawal on 10 May 2015 at 17:22 in Bangkok, Thailand. Time in UK at the point of ATM withdrawal was 11:22. Just for clarity, the date is 10 May 2015 both in Bangkok, Thailand and UK. We are not speaking of an instance where the ATM withdrawal was done at 03:00 in Thailand, then of course it would 21:00 of the previous day in UK.

So, my ATM withdrawal on Sunday could not possibly be "settled" on Friday due to time zone used by issuing bank. Even if Santander does not use GMT, and use a time zone that is near +-24 hours difference in comparison to Thailand, it would (could) not mean that the transaction was done on Friday.

Would you care to have another go?

Edited May 15, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[1BADDAT]

Yes, several variables to take into consideration when trying to figure out why the exchange rate that hits our bank/credit card account is different from the exchange rate on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page. Maybe a person is just using the wrong date....like.one day off.

A person just can't assume because say it's 10am/14May in whatever time zone you are currently located in that will mean you will get a 14 May Visa/Mastercard exchange rate even for a debt card transactions that settles immediately because whatever timezone the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is pegged to change each day at is probably going to be different. I have used my Visa debit card early in the morning in Thailand...say 9am and the transaction that logs to my U.S. bank account is the "day before" since it's still the day before in the US (around 9pm the day before) and I get that matching day Visa rate. Now, if, repeat if, Visa cards issued by European banks say are linked to GMT time then that 9pm time in Thailand would be 3am GMT same day due to only a 6 hour difference...much less likelihood of the actual transaction date differing from the Visa system date used for exchange rates.

There have been times where I wanted to use both my no foreign transaction fee debit cards to pull a total of $2,000 worth of baht and knowing the forex market changes would mostly likely cause the next day's Visa rate to go down, I've done the withdrawals early in the morning around 10am in Thailand but and got Visa previous day rate (referenced to US date/time)...and then taking a look at the Visa exchange rate page a few hours when it switched to the current date the rate had indeed went down...but like I said I did it early enough in the morning for my US Visa cards to get the previous day rate.

Like the Visa rate is midnight US Eastern Time based on my numerous uses of my card and watching the Visa exchange rate page change rates at approximate that magic time...sometimes they are a little tardy in updating the exchange rate page. I don't know what the VisaEurope's for European bank Visa cards magic time is since I don't track or have a Visa card issued by a European bank. Don't know what Mastercard's magic time is since I don't use one for debit card...only one for purchases which settles at least a day later due to how credit card transactions work.

But it's no biggie...if the exchange rate for your no foreign transaction fee don't exactly match to within a few decimal points the date you thought it occurred on in whatever location on Earth you did the transaction, then check the day before (or after) on the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate page and the rate should match exactly to within 2 or 3 decimal points...if it don't then your card is not a true no foreign transaction fee card.

Remember I asked you on Sunday 10 May 2015, if the m/c conversion tool worked. And you send me a screen print to say that it did. See the link below:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/821132-3-credit-card-charge/page-2#entry9391309

The most recent date available then was 07 May 2015, right?

I used a different web browser and got the most recent date 07 May 2015. This is apparent in post #43 and #45

I checked the m/c tool on Monday 11 May 2015, rate for Monday and Friday was not available. Checked on Tuesday 12 May 2015. Rate for Friday Available, but not for Monday.

Check on Wednesday 13 May 2015 and then rates for both Friday and Monday were available.

To put it bluntly, I think we are being screwed by both Mastercard and the Banks (Banksters).

Mastercard decides on a rate based on "multiple market sources (such as Bloomberg, Reuters, Central Banks and others) to develop exchange rates", See below:

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

They post rates on the above site when they want. (Sometimes with a time lag of three days. as in the example above. e.g. Rates for 07 May available on 10 May). Also, with regards to updates, like you say in post #52:

Also, Mastercard occasionally updates their rates more than twice a day for some currencies...don't know what times they use for that.

We need to ask ourselves, how come?. Yes, they use various sources, but it does not stop them from posting rates at a certain time each day (based on a particular location, New york, London, Paris etc). If we don't see the Mastercard rate before the bank, the bank has the uncanny option of:

Using Friday's rate OR Mondays rate, basically pick whichever rate they like. If Monday's rate is 51.88. and Fridays'rate was 51.32, which one do you think the banksters would pick. Surely a no brainer. On days where the currency markets are volatile, like last weekend, it's a banksters dream come true.

A person just can't assume because say it's 10am/14May in whatever time zone you are currently located in that will mean you will get a 14 May Visa/Mastercard exchange rate even for a debt card transactions that settles immediately because whatever timezone the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate is pegged to change each day at is probably going to be different.

Nice try!. But I have already covered this in post #51. See below:

This bit is easy. I made ATM withdrawal on 10 May 2015 at 17:22 in Bangkok, Thailand. Time in UK at the point of ATM withdrawal was 11:22. Just for clarity, the date is 10 May 2015 both in Bangkok, Thailand and UK. We are not speaking of an instance where the ATM withdrawal was done at 03:00 in Thailand, then of course it would 21:00 of the previous day in UK.

So, my ATM withdrawal on Sunday could not possibly be "settled" on Friday due to time zone used by issuing bank. Even if Santander does not use GMT, and use a time zone that is near +-24 hours difference in comparison to Thailand, it would (could) not mean that the transaction was done on Friday.

Would you care to have another go?

How many baht are we talking about here? Can I give you 1000 baht to quit posting novels here? Or if you prefer I can pay in installments of Chang or Singha.

[Sandman77]

Visa in Europe told me , if a company no matter in the world show the visa fees seperatly , we will refound you the money 3 Procent

On some hotels I got fees seperatly listed in thailand after I ask then I got many back

Travel agency's not want do, in Samui one time stuff told if I listed the fees for customer seperatly , and you claim back in your homecountry I got problem with my bank!

In other asian country's was even more easy after I ask show fee seperatly then in thailand !

This is how the system works, you only must know how the rabbit runs then you not have any problems!

[meltingpot2015]

@1BADDAT:

How many baht are we talking about here? Can I give you 1000 baht to quit posting novels here? Or if you prefer I can pay in installments of Chang or Singha.

Ha ha. very funny. Gonna keep this brief otherwise it may get called a "novel".

1) Are you aware how many transactions go through Mastercard and the card issuing banks?

2) No need to pay me in installaments of chang or Singha. Start by buying Chang or Singha for all those affected. I imagine you would need to make a few visits to the 7-Eleven or own a brewery.

3) Who is watching Mastercard and the banksters about these foreign Exchange transactions. If they are watched too much, is it categorised as "red tape", which affects doing business?. If Mastercard and/or the banks publish the rates at certain times and keep their rate changes consistent, (e.g. banks say on their website, if a transaction is done after 00:00 EDT saturday, but before 00:00 EDT on Monday, we use Mastercards Friday close of business rate) there will be less need for keeping watch over them by the regulators.

4) HAve you seen those screens in a stock market update?. If these updates can be done, every X seconds/minutes, how is it that the the mastercard Website sometimes takes 3 days to update.

This one is not even a novella.

Edited May 17, 2015 by meltingpot2015