500,000 dilemna

[thesetat2013]

I guess one could say I got off cheap considering other foreigners who have lost so much to Thais here. Let me start at the beginning without drawing it out too long. I have a beautiful Thai wife and she is a good woman. Her family has wanted us to move in to what will be my wife's home when her parents pass away. A farmhouse poorly kept. 20 years of dust and cobwebs but well built with potential. We decided we would move in and fix the house up. Not a lot mind you. A few extra meters with additions to enlarge the bathroom and kitchen and our bedroom. Some running water and hot water for the bathroom and sink. Some tile and paint to cover the bad concrete walls that her family has lived in for so long.

Little to my surprise how this would turn about against me.

My wife has a sister living in the house while her husband builds their own house next door. They have known for a year we would be moving and fixing the parents home yet, they went behind our backs and used my wife's land to secure a loan with which they used (not to finish their house) to buy a brand new car.

Needless to say, the plans we had to fix the house left 36sq meters empty with which the sister and her family could stay.

Easy you think! Problem solved you say?

I certainly thought so. Unfortunately I am not Thai. By asking the sister to move upstairs while we make the house bigger and nicer I have by Thainess thrown the sister out.

Thainess. Hmmpp. This word should be forever forgotten.

Now I am being told I can modernize my bathroom and fix me a bedroom but can not touch the rest of the house or inconvenience the sister and her family. Basically! We can move into one room and forever be trapped there like a cage for foreigners.

Perhaps I left some important facts out of this. I am disabled and can not sit on concrete floors or even sit for long periods of time without severe pain. Multiple spinal surgeries and failed spinal surgeries have left me this way.

Back to my story. We had already hired and received plans from an architect and it wasn't until we began construction and remodeling that I have been told to stop. Stop my painting outside. So adamant the father was that he nailed the rooms windows shut so I could not paint there. Next was that because I could not make it look like I was throwing the sister out by asking her to move to the larger room upstairs it meant the father and mother would not move out of the living room into the room we were going to make big for them. Which in turn meant only 3 meters in the living room to put all of our furniture and household items.

Now I am foreseeing the caged in life I would live as they want us to do. In 18 SG meters (my bedroom). I am supposed to put my sofa and recliner and bed and dresser and closet and everything we have expensive. The house will continue to collect dust and cobwebs and this means I will be forced to keep my 2 kids in my room also with all of our stuff.

The house has 2 kids there already with breathing and allergy disorders which I attribute to their lack of cleaning. So I can not risk leaving my clean room or allowing my kids to do the same. (who are at a higher risk from the dust). No I am at a crossroad. Do I live my life in a single room with 2 kids and having the whole house talk bad about me for refusing my kids freedom to explore the house and be with the rest of the family? Or do I just leave and turn my back and let the family finish the house to what they see fit until the sister finishes her house. Either I will still be the bad guy the same I an seen as selfish and unthoughtful and unable to comprehend Thainess.

If I move away I will be bad for taking the daughter and grandkids away. If I stay I will be the bad man for keeping my kids away from harm in my only room.

Any advice would be welcome from anyone who understands Thainess and understand the logic behind treating me with such inconsideration or sympathy for my needs to keep my back from failing again.

My wife is now the bad girl too because she has been told she only backs me up and does what I say. She is the only one to speak Thai and English in the whole family. So she can only cry about it and they refuse to listen to her now as well.

[TP1]

OP, take your wife and kids and find a house to rent and live in, as far away as you can from this family.

What you are going through, I don't wish it to anybody.

Good Luck to you all.

[thesetat2013]

I have been thinking the same. Yet to do this my wife gets emotionally hurt. We have paid for the construction and all equipment and new tile and ceiling and water tanks and everything. We lose all.

[robblok]

One way or the other you are the bad guy. Just decide what will give you the most comfort in life. Personally I would move out and move out far. This of course depends on the wife how far she wants to go away.

Get your own house or rent one somewhere and make sure its up to your standards. I would go crazy if i lived with my own parents (who i love a lot) I cant imagine living with someone else his or her parents. Maybe I am crazy or too much of a loner but i really need privacy.

Just find a nice location somewhere YOU (and your wife and kids) enjoy and go live there

Your the bad man one way or the other, better to be the bad man and out of sight.

The only caveat is of course how your wife and the kids will feel about a move.

[arjunadawn]

Wow, what a complicated and convoluted story; sadly, this is how real life acts upon us. Rarely are there good options when competing interests and base desires are involved. In the end, putting aside all the small points of the story that seem vital and useful, we are left with a few hard facts, and self evident options.

You are in a bad situation. You dont seem to have the ability to make it better. There does not seem to be a mechanism to find consensus and compromise= therefore, this is no possibility of compromise. Therefore, you should bend over further or you should abandon any arrangement that has you complicit in your own injury! If you are being hurt; if the kids are or could be hurt, then you need to leave. If your wife is unable to separate you from family. Leave her too. If the kids are unable to leave with you, apply the same algorithm= how far are you willing to go to participate in your own humiliation and injury. You may not be able to stop others from injuring you but you certainly do9nt have to be complicit in aiding them. I sense your wife concurs with you but is equally trapped by a differing set of dilemmas this poses for her.

Its simple: What makes life worth living? When you look back on your life toward the last days do you want to be able to say you lived as a free man, with honor, and dignity, or that you compromised far beyond your genuine willingness to do, and you die bitter or injured? Up to you. I would pack a bag- in fact I did.

[NickJ]

Wow a disabled meal ticket....I gues your classified as an Atm.....not a full ATM.

Run my friend or push as fast as you can. Sorry to seem like the ass I am but.....It wont ever get better.

Know your options......arrange a budget and live within it. There are plenty of places around.

[thesetat2013]

Wow a disabled meal ticket....I gues your classified as an Atm.....not a full ATM.

Run my friend or push as fast as you can. Sorry to seem like the ass I am but.....It wont ever get better.

Know your options......arrange a budget and live within it. There are plenty of places around.

Maybe you misunderstand the context of my story. The family is not interested in my money. I know for certain my wife is not with me for cash. The 500 thousand is the loss I am going to take if I leave for everything I have bought and the starting for the construction to make some additions.

[gerry123]

!!!!!!The family is not interested in my money. I know for certain my wife is not with me for cash. ??????!!!!!

i was in two minds as to actually post my reply but honestly my T V friend just look again at the replies through out today they will pretty well follow the same format /advice also i reply because you sound genuine unlike many similar posts which are basically trolls

[thesetat2013]

!!!!!!The family is not interested in my money. I know for certain my wife is not with me for cash. ??????!!!!!

i was in two minds as to actually post my reply but honestly my T V friend just look again at the replies through out today they will pretty well follow the same format /advice also i reply because you sound genuine unlike many similar posts which are basically trolls

Well I am definitely not a troll and the story is happening to me at this time.

I am going to follow advice because I was originally thinking the same before I posted this. However I want to give wife a chance to talk one on one with her parents without me there before a final decision is made. So maybe she can explain my options if they refuse to let me make the house livable. I am looking into returning purchases we made that have yet to be delivered for refunds and to put a half to construction so my loss is not so severe even though the house is a mess with holes dug and bare new walls. Just walk away with no afterthought.

[jamesjohnsonthird]

Don't put one more baht into that place, sell off what you can, then tell that family to take a flying leap at the moooon.

[2fishin2]

Don't put one more baht into that place, sell off what you can, then tell that family to take a flying leap at the moooon.

I cant believe Im doing this but, I couldnt agree anymore than with this statement.

Grown men with families do not allow this kind of BS to effect their own immediate families. I wish you luck.

[northernjohn]

I have been thinking the same. Yet to do this my wife gets emotionally hurt. We have paid for the construction and all equipment and new tile and ceiling and water tanks and everything. We lose all.

If you don't move out it sounds to me like you have lost it all any way and am stuck with people who are just using you.

If your wife thinks in your condition you should have to put up with this you might want to consider a talk with her about where you fit in.

[IMA_FARANG]

Unfortunately, you sound like you are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Thai families have strong attachments between family members, and Thai daughters are taught to respect their parents and provide for them when they get older.

it's that parental support thing that is deep in the Thai culture.

Is there a grandmother in your Thai family?

From my experience Thai grandmothers have a lot of authority in extended Thai families.

The Grandfather may be seen to be the head of the family , but often Granny, his wife actually controls him.

I would advise to have your wife to have a long conversation if possible with her grandmother in Thai and explain to Granny exactly why she feels she is being slighted by her sister and her sister's husband.

I don't know if that will work or not but I know Granny often has a lot of weight in extended Thai families and it might work in your case.

In my girlfriends extended Thai family my girlfriend is now the eldest surviving child of the grandparents and that has given her a lot of authority with the rest of the extended family

If it doesn't work at least you tried.

But first be absolutely sure your wife agrees with this idea, otherwise it will come to nothing.

I suspect your wife has been indoctrinated since birth that it is her role as a good faithful daughter to support her aged parents and siblings as they get older.

That's normal in extended Thai families.

It is a old cultural tradition that not all Farangs see or can understand that goes deep in Thai culture.... my family first.

Rather like in Italy.... Mia familia.

Edited May 11, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[thesetat2013]

Unfortunately, you sound like you are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Thai families have strong attachments between family members, and Thai daughters are taught to respect their parents and provide for them when they get older.

it's that parental support thing that is deep in the Thai culture.

Is there a grandmother in your Thai family?

From my experience Thai grandmothers have a lot of authority in extended Thai families.

The Grandfather may be seen to be the head of the family , but often Granny, his wife actually controls him.

I would advise to have your wife to have a long conversation if possible with her grandmother in Thai and explain to Granny exactly why she feels she is being slighted by her sister and her sister's husband.

I don't know if that will work or not but I know Granny often has a lot of weight in extended Thai families and it might work in your case.

In my girlfriends extended Thai family my girlfriend is now the eldest surviving child of the grandparents and that has given her a lot of authority with the rest of the extended family

If it doesn't work at least you tried.

But first be absolutely sure your wife agrees with this idea, otherwise it will come to nothing.

I suspect your wife has been indoctrinated since birth that it is her role as a good faithful daughter to support her aged parents and siblings as they get older.

That's normal in extended Thai families.

It is a old cultural tradition that not all Farangs see or can understand that goes deep in Thai culture.... my family first.

Its unfortunate that the father is the oldest and his parents are dead. My wife is the youngest which is why we wanted to move into the house so she could do her duty in taking care of her parents. Good intentions have been twisted though using their Thainess into my being a bad person trying to do all I am trying to improve as stated in my story. My only goal was to modernize and clean the house up and make more comfortable for myself and her parents. If I were allowed to complete it the parents would have double the space in their room. A hot bath to ease their and my pains. A bigger living room enough to seat all his kids and grandkids. A bigger kitchen to have for such a large family,and clean air in the house which is in contrast to the many years of dust which may cause the parents medical problems as well as to my babies in the future.

[ukrules]

I think the best option all around is to move out and return / resume your project when they're dead and out of the way.

Let them live in squalor if that's what they want, I doubt it will get any worse.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ukrules

[NancyL]

It seems it was the OP's idea to "improve" his in-law's home and not theirs and they like it just fine, thank you. If his wife wants to be a dutiful daughter and take care of her parents, then the best way to do this as a compromise would be for the OP to secure a house near the in-laws that he can outfit as his own private castle for his family and wifey can be close enough to spend several hours a day with her parents. It's not like she needs to be with them 24/7 since a sister and other relatives are living in the house with them.

That's basically what Hubby and I did with my parents when they got older and I thought I needed to check up on them several times weekly. We moved them to a little house close to ours, but not in the same house. My marriage wouldn't have survived us being under the same roof.

Edited May 11, 2015 by NancyL

[thesetat2013]

It seems it was the OP's idea to "improve" his in-law's home and not theirs and they like it just fine, thank you. If his wife wants to be a dutiful daughter and take care of her parents, then the best way to do this as a compromise would be for the OP to secure a house near the in-laws that he can outfit as his own private castle for his family and wifey can be close enough to spend several hours a day with her parents. It's not like she needs to be with them 24/7 since a sister and other relatives are living in the house with them.

That's basically what Hubby and I did with my parents when they got older and I thought I needed to check up on them several times weekly. We moved them to a little house close to ours, but not in the same house. My marriage wouldn't have survived us being under the same roof.

The home is my wife's when her parents. Not the in-laws. The in-laws had begun building their home next door but then stopped work on their home and tricked the parents to give them a loan using our land so they could buy a new car.

Now the in-laws home is unfinished and they are living in my wife's home with the parents. I firmly believe they are the sole cause of the father stopping me from continuing to build as the inlaw sister opposes being moved to the upstairs room during construction

[lovelomsak]

I would simply cut my losses and leave with wife and kids and start new somewhere. You arenot even obligated to stay in the village. You only live once do you really have the time or energy to try and work this out living under those conditions?

[2fishin2]

This threat kinda gives the D in drama.

[NancyL]

It seems it was the OP's idea to "improve" his in-law's home and not theirs and they like it just fine, thank you. If his wife wants to be a dutiful daughter and take care of her parents, then the best way to do this as a compromise would be for the OP to secure a house near the in-laws that he can outfit as his own private castle for his family and wifey can be close enough to spend several hours a day with her parents. It's not like she needs to be with them 24/7 since a sister and other relatives are living in the house with them.

That's basically what Hubby and I did with my parents when they got older and I thought I needed to check up on them several times weekly. We moved them to a little house close to ours, but not in the same house. My marriage wouldn't have survived us being under the same roof.

The home is my wife's when her parents. Not the in-laws. The in-laws had begun building their home next door but then stopped work on their home and tricked the parents to give them a loan using our land so they could buy a new car.

Now the in-laws home is unfinished and they are living in my wife's home with the parents. I firmly believe they are the sole cause of the father stopping me from continuing to build as the inlaw sister opposes being moved to the upstairs room during construction

Not her in-laws, yours.

Frankly, all the family relationships are irrelevant. The point is -- get your own house for you and your immediate family (wife and kids) that is off-limits to the others. That is YOUR castle. Your wife can go visit her relatives whenever she wants, but you don't have to put up with them in your house because you'll be King of Your Castle.

[ukrules]

So your wifes sister got a loan secured on the land, you don't say otherwise so I'm going to presume that this land contains the house, is that correct ?

If this is correct I think this is the point where your wife lost her inheritance.

I heard of something very similar happening in the family of someone I know. The uncle got a secured loan by taking the old woman who controls the land to get a massive mortgage which the bank seemed to have no problem handing over even though she has severe dementia and zero income. She has no idea what she's done and the uncle has all the money. When she dies there will be nothing but debt left over.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ukrules

[smiles793]

Just to expand on the previous comment OP. The in-laws' car is secured against the land that was going to be passed to your wife? So, when your parents-in-law pass away, the loan is effectively transferred to your wife, and I guess that means to you. So you could find yourself in the unpleasant position of paying for your inlaws' car or losing your land and house. I wonder if the in-laws land next door is on the same chanote or not?

It's a horrible situation to be in. I would defiinitely just move out with your family; even if you do stay life will be unpleasant and the land will likely be taken by the bank eventually any way.

[LuckyLew]

AS already suggested you should just take the loss and leave

If possible cancel whatever contracts you have agreed to, even if it means taking a loss

This situation will not be improved

You have been accommodating and you are paying for it

Seems her family is not being very appreciative

This trend will continue if not it will get worse

[Thongkorn]

Your life live it , just move and do your thing, things will never change, you solve one problem i can garantee there will be another manufactured problem found

[northernjohn]

So your wifes sister got a loan secured on the land, you don't say otherwise so I'm going to presume that this land contains the house, is that correct ?

If this is correct I think this is the point where your wife lost her inheritance.

I heard of something very similar happening in the family of someone I know. The uncle got a secured loan by taking the old woman who controls the land to get a massive mortgage which the bank seemed to have no problem handing over even though she has severe dementia and zero income. She has no idea what she's done and the uncle has all the money. When she dies there will be nothing but debt left over.

That is a definite possibility. Having a Thai wife I understand the dilemma. It is not like back many western countries where you just stick the old people in an old home and live life the way you want to. Here if you have a Thai wife particularly not the young and upcoming westernized to the point where they are merchandize orientated you have to figure the wife's family in to the picture.

There is a certain amount of give you must make. How ever given the physical condition you are in your wants should be taken into consideration also. Perhaps some friends of your Mother and Father in Law could explain it to them. I don't know your finances but push come to pull maybe you could cut your losses and build close to them so your wife could visit every day or two. I know there is hardly a day that goes by that my wife does not spend a couple of hours with her mother. By the same token her grown up daughter and son in law try to help her as much as they can in regards to transportation.

[djayz]

I'm not taking sides here, but can you imagine how YOU would feel if a stranger, son/daughter-in-law, etc. moved into YOUR home and started changing it? Maybe the parents like their run-down, dusty house just the way it was...

I honestly believe you all need to sit down TOGETHER and talk this through. Explain to them that you're trying to malke their lives easier by fixing up/modernizing the hous.You asked the s-i-l to move upstairs so that you could continue working downstairs, etc. I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding.

I find it really easy to solve problems here by 1) keeping a cool, level head and 2) explaining my actions in detail.

Don't be hasty...

[fey]

Hi paps,

Usually this arrangement you build the elders a small cottage or in law house on your expansive property, close, but well removed from your mansion. This enables the wifey to care for them, but your not living WITH them.

They will appreciate the new stuff for the house. Re package it as a wedding gift for them. Salvage what you can and get your own home.

Living with in laws is just not natural. The man takes his mate and moves off to start a new family, thats just how nature works. Look at the animal kingdom. When they are old and frail debt come due and the wealthy new alpha male may permit them to reside rent free on his land. Leader of the pack so to speak. It also enables the "kids" to visit with grandma and grandpa so they dont get depressed and lonely. Hopefully your property has a fishing lake to keep gramps occupied during the day as well.

Can you raise a three headed monster with the parents in the next room?

That's going to be weird with them hanging around all day and night. Not interested in having a beer with pops when i come out of a session or passing mom after looking for ky jelly in the shared bathroom!

Edited May 11, 2015 by fey

[faraday]

How was it possible for the sister to get a Loan on the land owned by your wife?

Edited May 11, 2015 by faraday

[thesetat2013]

I'm not taking sides here, but can you imagine how YOU would feel if a stranger, son/daughter-in-law, etc. moved into YOUR home and started changing it? Maybe the parents like their run-down, dusty house just the way it was...

I honestly believe you all need to sit down TOGETHER and talk this through. Explain to them that you're trying to malke their lives easier by fixing up/modernizing the hous.You asked the s-i-l to move upstairs so that you could continue working downstairs, etc. I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding.

I find it really easy to solve problems here by 1) keeping a cool, level head and 2) explaining my actions in detail.

Don't be hasty...

The father cosigned for the money we needed to remodel the house and knew of the plans made by the architect.

This is all because the eldest sister who lives in the house house made constant complaints to the father about the work that was being done and her inconvenience that is being caused to her. The same sister who took a loan on our land without telling the father she was doing it and using the mother to cosign so she could use the money to buy a new car.

[thesetat2013]

How was it possible for the sister to get a Loan on the land owned by your wife?

My wife is the youngest daughter and she is entitled to inherit the piece of land with which the house sits on and the family house.