My daughter wants to be a Doctor

[Once Bitten]

My seventeen year old daughter has just started her final year ( Mattayom 6 ) at a local government school , over all her past exam grades are good along with her O-NET test scores .

She is now looking towards the future with regards to moving on to study at university , I have had long conversations with her ( her speaking / writing English skills are good ) about what subject she would like to peruse for a final career .

She seems to be interest in obtaining a MD degree ( doctor of medicine ) .


I'm not really sure what is involved and what my daughter needs , with regard to obtaining a university place, So I thought I would ask here to see if any forum users have a family member who has / is perusing a MD degree , and could offer advice , general comments or suggestions on the subject .

I am not sure if this question is put in the correct place , so moderators please move if necessary


Thanks

[zeichen]

My wife's cousin just got accepted last year. He had top marks in his class at a private school. Unless she is attending a top government school, it will be unlikely for her to get accepted without great grades. My Cousin's parents also paid for private tutors to aid him in the entrance exam. Which will be her toughest obstacle.

I also had a few very excellent students I taught in EP not get accepted into Med school here. Their English was excellent but since they studied EP from P1-M6 their academic Thai wasn't as good and since the Entrance exam is Thai, they didn't do as well as we had hoped.

[DavisH]

My wife's cousin just got accepted last year. He had top marks in his class at a private school. Unless she is attending a top government school, it will be unlikely for her to get accepted without great grades. My Cousin's parents also paid for private tutors to aid him in the entrance exam. Which will be her toughest obstacle.

I also had a few very excellent students I taught in EP not get accepted into Med school here. Their English was excellent but since they studied EP from P1-M6 their academic Thai wasn't as good and since the Entrance exam is Thai, they didn't do as well as we had hoped.

We had 4 students from one of our EP classes get accepted into medicine (some programs are harder to get into than others), but they all spent a lot of time studying maths/science outside with private teachers tutorial schools. We also had some students from that class leave in m3 and go to schools like Triam Udom Suksa. They also qualified for medicine. Not sure if they did extra classes though, as that kind of school spends 3 year studying only for entrance exams. It seems extra classes are a necessary evil for all students, regardless of whether they study in private or government schools. It seems school work alone is not enough. Anyone who has seen GAT (and especially PAT) exams, and how different it is from the school curriculum, will attest to this. One of my students failed PAT maths and still qualified for medicine as he was in the top 1 percent of students. That is how difficult it is and no amount of school work can prepare for that.

[dragonfly94]

Surprised how tough it is to get it considering some of the Thai Dr's I have come across

[NickJ]

And the extreme shortage of them....there are 22 medical schools here as well.

[zeichen]

"Surprised how tough it is to get it considering some of the Thai Dr's I have come across"

The problem is once you are in, you are a doctor. No matter how poor your grades are if you pass, you graduate and are a doctor.

In the US, you go to Undergrad and study pre-med + whatever else you want to study, then take the hardest test known to mankind MCAT, then if you get accepted to Med school it is still a steep chance that you will actually become a doctor.

Here 6 years after entering University even with lower grades and poor skills, you still become a doctor.

"We also had some students from that class leave in m3 and go to schools like Triam Udom Suksa. They also qualified for medicine."

You tracked what 3 students did 3 years after leaving your school? Either you are a stalker or just lying.

"We had 4 students from one of our EP classes get accepted into medicine"

Out of how many students in a class 30? That is very hard to believe. "our EP" Are you the director or principal of the school? Do you wear every of your student's accomplishments as a badge of honor?

Fact is that EP students don't do as well in Thai programs at University. Unless they attend International programs. They score seriously lower on their O-Net tests than students at the same school attending Thai classes.

[Rhys]

^{Quota placement is your best chance..don't even try for Mahidol....you might have a chance down south.. good luck..}

[smiles793]

What with ONET, ANET, GAT and PAT it can get very bewildering. Add to this scholarships and quotas and it gets even more confusing!

But the core thing is her ONET grades and her subjects. She would need to be doing very well at maths and science to get accepted for Medical School. And as others have said extra lessons are common for students at government schools that are planning to go to uni.

So to begin with I would….

1. Check her science / maths grades just to makes sure her aptitudes are in-line with her ambitions
2. Consider extra science/maths lessons
3. Check what universities in your area offer medical degrees, and check their quota opportunities for local students (this is a very common route), and the dates of their quota tests
4. Check the dates for scholarship entrance tests for any unis you are interested in as they will vary and may even conflict.

I would also check with her teachers for their advice on these points if you haven’t done so already.

A friend’s daughter was accepted into the Chiang Mai Uni Med School last year, among other places (I believe CMU has the largest Med School in the country, but I’m not certain about that). But she decided to take the offer from a military Med School in the Bangkok area as it pays her a handsome allowance while she’s a student, and she will finish her degree with no debt, money in the bank and a guaranteed well-paid professional position.

She comes from a farming family and attended government school. I know quite a few Thais of similar backgrounds who have entered the professions, and have risen up the ranks to senior positions in their careers. It’s harder of course but far from impossible, and the self-esteem which comes from doing it on your own terms is invaluable.

[steven100]

Well good for her ......

[Once Bitten]

What with ONET, ANET, GAT and PAT it can get very bewildering. Add to this scholarships and quotas and it gets even more confusing!

But the core thing is her ONET grades and her subjects. She would need to be doing very well at maths and science to get accepted for Medical School. And as others have said extra lessons are common for students at government schools that are planning to go to uni.

So to begin with I would….

1. Check her science / maths grades just to makes sure her aptitudes are in-line with her ambitions
2. Consider extra science/maths lessons
3. Check what universities in your area offer medical degrees, and check their quota opportunities for local students (this is a very common route), and the dates of their quota tests
4. Check the dates for scholarship entrance tests for any unis you are interested in as they will vary and may even conflict.

I would also check with her teachers for their advice on these points if you haven’t done so already.

A friend’s daughter was accepted into the Chiang Mai Uni Med School last year, among other places (I believe CMU has the largest Med School in the country, but I’m not certain about that). But she decided to take the offer from a military Med School in the Bangkok area as it pays her a handsome allowance while she’s a student, and she will finish her degree with no debt, money in the bank and a guaranteed well-paid professional position.

She comes from a farming family and attended government school. I know quite a few Thais of similar backgrounds who have entered the professions, and have risen up the ranks to senior positions in their careers. It’s harder of course but far from impossible, and the self-esteem which comes from doing it on your own terms is invaluable.

Thanks for your input

Her science and maths grades have over all been getting better , in the past and currently she has been taking extra science and maths lessons , some held at a large private learning establishment during school holidays , and some at week ends , held at a teachers house .

We live quite far away from any Universities , the nearest large city is about 80Km away .

Over all even at this stage of her government schooling , its difficult to predict what her final grades / scores will be , and if they will meet the requirements to enable her to think about a career in medicine . I am constantly talking to my daughter about her future and what will be needed to attend a university , and if she has the correct grades / scores to enable her to take an entrance exam .

I think she is still contemplating what career path she wants to go down , she seems keen and enthusiastic for some thing in the medical world , being a Doctor seems to be on the top of her list , but after our conversations together she is under no illusion that she may not have the required final grades to successfully enter a medical school . Having said that I am all ways open with her and try to keep her positive and motivated about all the the other options that are possibly still there for her , she seems to have a real interest in learning and enjoys attending school and trying her best .

Your comment about the military Med School , was interesting and one neither my daughter or my self have thought about , I'm trying to think of other possible '' medical career '' options that may be an option for her , if she does not get the required grades to enter a Med school, other professions that come to mind would be dentistry , veterinarian , pharmacy technician , ophthalmic optician etc .

As she has now moved to her final year ( M6 ) there is a teacher assigned to advise on career paths , but as yet that teacher has not been too enthusiastic .

I'm trying to some how show and encourage my daughter to try and aim for a university place in what ever subject she enjoys , and should she finally get there , she will be the first member ever of her rural family ever to attend a university .

My daughter has asked me about possible careers in the Army / Navy / Air Force , as one of her school friends , sisters is training to be an Army nurse , so thats a subject I need to find out more about .

[DavisH]

Surprised how tough it is to get it considering some of the Thai Dr's I have come across

I go straight to a specialist if I understand my problem - many have had training overseas and speak very good english. And this is in a government hospital. Some of the best doctors at Sirirat have a queue 6 moths to a year long. There's plenty of good doctors here you just need to find them.

[DavisH]

"Surprised how tough it is to get it considering some of the Thai Dr's I have come across"

The problem is once you are in, you are a doctor. No matter how poor your grades are if you pass, you graduate and are a doctor.

In the US, you go to Undergrad and study pre-med + whatever else you want to study, then take the hardest test known to mankind MCAT, then if you get accepted to Med school it is still a steep chance that you will actually become a doctor.

Here 6 years after entering University even with lower grades and poor skills, you still become a doctor.

"We also had some students from that class leave in m3 and go to schools like Triam Udom Suksa. They also qualified for medicine."

You tracked what 3 students did 3 years after leaving your school? Either you are a stalker or just lying.

"We had 4 students from one of our EP classes get accepted into medicine"

Out of how many students in a class 30? That is very hard to believe. "our EP" Are you the director or principal of the school? Do you wear every of your student's accomplishments as a badge of honor?

Fact is that EP students don't do as well in Thai programs at University. Unless they attend International programs. They score seriously lower on their O-Net tests than students at the same school attending Thai classes.

Seriously? Ofcourse I know the whereabouts of nearly all of my students. YES, 4 out of one class of less than thirty qualified for medicine. having said that, not many qualify for medicine. This was an outstanding year. This was the class that didn't give a crap what the foreign teacher taught them. It was all tutorial school for them. It's MY EP because I've been here 14 years and have seen 9 graduating classes. YES I'm very damn proud of my students.

Furhermore, I make no promises to my students about how they will fare on Thai exams. I don't prepare them for those exams and I'm very clear to them about that. I make it clear to M3 students they would be better off in a Thai program if they want to study in Thai in university. We prepare students for international programs, mainly in Thailand, but a few have gone overseas to study.

[zeichen]

"Seriously? Ofcourse I know the whereabouts of nearly all of my students."

What do you do install rfid chips in them. Seriously, I know you don't mean to but that just sounds extremely creepy.

[Robby nz]

What with ONET, ANET, GAT and PAT it can get very bewildering. Add to this scholarships and quotas and it gets even more confusing!

But the core thing is her ONET grades and her subjects. She would need to be doing very well at maths and science to get accepted for Medical School. And as others have said extra lessons are common for students at government schools that are planning to go to uni.

So to begin with I would….

1. Check her science / maths grades just to makes sure her aptitudes are in-line with her ambitions
2. Consider extra science/maths lessons
3. Check what universities in your area offer medical degrees, and check their quota opportunities for local students (this is a very common route), and the dates of their quota tests
4. Check the dates for scholarship entrance tests for any unis you are interested in as they will vary and may even conflict.

I would also check with her teachers for their advice on these points if you haven’t done so already.

A friend’s daughter was accepted into the Chiang Mai Uni Med School last year, among other places (I believe CMU has the largest Med School in the country, but I’m not certain about that). But she decided to take the offer from a military Med School in the Bangkok area as it pays her a handsome allowance while she’s a student, and she will finish her degree with no debt, money in the bank and a guaranteed well-paid professional position.

She comes from a farming family and attended government school. I know quite a few Thais of similar backgrounds who have entered the professions, and have risen up the ranks to senior positions in their careers. It’s harder of course but far from impossible, and the self-esteem which comes from doing it on your own terms is invaluable.

I was going to ask if anyone had considered the Army medical school at Pramonkutklau hospital in BKK when I read your post.

I have been a patient at that hospital and seen the number of student doctors and nurses that pass through those schools and seen how the student doctors go on to specialties with the military.

If as you state they are getting a military salary (doctors are officers) while training it has to be a good option for those from less well off backgrounds.

[Lukecan]

Is there any chance of paying your way in to a med school in Thailand?

[SlyAnimal]

If you just want to buy your way into med school, you can attend a private university. There still are entrance requirements which need to be met, but they're a little lower than at a government university.

[TerryLH]

"My daughter has asked me about possible careers in the Army / Navy / Air Force , as one of her school friends , sisters is training to be an Army nurse , so thats a subject I need to find out more about ."

Shouldn't she be the one finding out about that? It would probably be much easier, and would show if she really has an interest.

You said her grades have been improving. I think most of the applicants who get accepted have close to a 4.0 for the three years.

Make sure she t least thinks about a Plan B.

[chopin2]

Is there any chance of paying your way in to a med school in Thailand?

I thought that was the only way.....?

[Craig krup]

Is there any point in having a backup plan of biological and life sciences? In the UK that leaves open medical-related jobs, and there's a fast track medical degree (at Leeds, I think). BSc in anatomy, physiology or biochemistry might be plan B.

How important is the "proof of a vocation" requirement? Again, in the UK, what gets you in is having read to pensioners for a year, or something similar.

[SheungWan]

She might want to consider the career pathway of being an anaesthetist. Don't know how this works re choice of study in Thailand.

[Craig krup]

She might want to consider the career pathway of being an anaesthetist. Don't know how this works re choice of study in Thailand.

In most countries that'll be a specialism after a medical degree. Anaesthetics is serious ****. I had a tax ride from an old boy in Edinburgh who said that he just worked a few days a week to keep his mind off thinking about his grandson who had been killed at the dentists by a kid-on anaesthetist. I've got quite a retentive memory. I said, "It wasn't John Evans-Appiah, was it?" Sure enough, it was. An idiot licensed as part of a communist era scheme to curry favour in Africa.

Physiotherapist is a good option for the "want to help people in a medical setting without a degree in medicine".

http://www.pt.mahidol.ac.th/en/prospective_student/welcome.php

[Trembly]

If I was going to practice medicine in Thailand I don't think that I could really justify any course other than the Joint Medical Programme of Srinakharinwirot University and Nottingham University :

As part of this course, students take part in a 6 month preparatory course at Srinakharinwirot University before departing for preclinical studies at the University of Nottingham for 2.5 years. During their time in Nottingham, students study alongside their peers in the undergraduate medicine course and are expected to complete an honours year project in order to receive a Bachelor of Medical Science (hons) from the University of Nottingham.

Subsequently, students return to complete 3 years of clinical studies alongside their peers in the Thai Doctor of Medicine program and graduate with a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) degree from Srinakharinwirot University.

Two of my full-blooded Thai friends from my class at school went on to become doctors. One did a full medical degree at Imperial College and the other one did the joint degree programme as above.

The one who went to Imperial became a surgeon in the NHS. She briefly toyed with the idea of coming back to Thailand to practice, according to the wishes of her well-to-do family, but she quickly found out that her wholly British medical school training made her largely incompatible with the way hospitals work here. For one thing, because she went to university in London she just doesn't have the personal connections and peer-network that are so important in a country where the primary law is the law of relationships. Starting a private clinic was ruled out because to do that in Thailand you have to be all about the money, and if you're all about the money as a Thai surgeon you're basically stuck with cosmetic surgery as your bread and butter. The other thing is that according to the Thai Ministry of Public Health, her MBBS degree from Imperial College is apparently lacking a few modules in basic medical biology and something else that I can't remember.

You may laugh at how the Ministry of Public Health could deem a medical degree from Imperial College to be lacking, as it is undoubtedly a good course that is probably at least equal to any training offered in Thailand, but that's bureaucracy for you. The MPH want to see those basic modules present in the course in a format that they are accustomed to seeing and apparently they can't be bothered to come up with an equivalency framework.

This means that she doesn't qualify for an automatic license to practice in Thailand despite the fact that she is a practicing surgeon in the UK's National Health Service; to rectify this she would have to go to a Thai university to take the missing modules in the format that the MPH recognises. Ironically enough, there are no purpose-made conversion courses available from the Ministry or Thai universities where she can sit exams for only those modules because Thai higher education is not geared for modular delivery.

So she said " that" and shelved any plans to return to Thailand, much to the sighs of her family elders.

The one who went to SWU / Nottingham had also considered doing a full degree in the UK, having gone to a British international school. He wanted to broaden his horizons a bit and try out a foreign country for the next phase of his life, but he also knew that he definitely wanted to live and practice in Thailand.

Forearmed with some knowledge of the relevant regulations, he deliberately ruled out any degrees that would lead primarily to foreign licensing and went for a Thai degree with western university intercalation. This fitted his requirements perfectly because Thai medical licensing would come automatically after completing the medical school quotient in Thailand, so he wouldn't have to worry about that. He would also be trained to deal with the way medical things work here and have a Thai network of ajarns and peers to fall back on. Importantly for him, this decision still allowed him to spend a few years abroad with a stand alone BSc from Nottingham University to show for it in addition to the medical degree from SWU. Licensing conversions in most western countries also tend to be pretty straightforward.

That's just my 2 satang though. Good luck to your daughter whatever she chooses!

[Thorgal]

Some interesting info for your daughter concerning the MLET (Medical License Exam Thailand) tests :

https://www.facebook.com/National-Medical-License-Training-Club-Thailand-126515320773977/

Being a student from Thai government school with high grades are important advantages. Her motivation is the most important key for success.

[DavisH]

One of my ex-students is doing the course UK-Thai course Trembly mentioned. It's tough work. Lots of long essays and long nights studying. It's not east to get accepted as well, as there re limited places. I recall the cost being about 7M baht also. Not cheap but probably worth it in the long run.