Bandido chief stranded in Thailand after Australian govt refuses to renew visa

[Artisi]

I wish that Thai Visa would have a forum for idiots

Simply suggest it to Thaivisa and apply to be the leading idiot, fair chance you will be successful with your application

[Bluespunk]

So no evidence this guy has done something wrong other than be a member of an MC Club and using the excuse that refusal is based on his alleged charachter because he is in an MC club what an ignorant and bigoted approach

If he was committing crimes where there is proof OK no problem but when there is NO EVIDENCE of that then it is just a sad reflection on Australia and as for all you saddo's that are prepared to hang a guy because of the way he looks or your bigoted views on Bikers and Biker clubs well I wont say what I really want since i am coming off a months holiday already.

You dont even know the guy but are happy to have him removed from his family and kids on nothing more than made up crap.

If you & dumbspunk & others are sooooo concerned...... maybe you would like to adopt him. I'm sure your family & neighbors would be happy to have him in the community.

At last, Australia has a government with enough balls to start thinking of the overall good of the country / community in relation to unwanted & undesirables.

There are millions of Aussies that have tatts that aren't on the radar. There's thousands of Aussies that are members of "clubs", not "gangs", that aren't on the radar. Why do you think the likes of this critter, Sergent at Arms of a notorious outlaw bike gang is on the radar ???? Oh, for what it's worth, I have several tatts & ride a bike. Wonder why I'm not on the radar.

Yes, yes, I know... civil liberties & human rights... blah blah.

Yeah, I'm waiting for your response...... give it your best shot.

Civil liberties, human rights and I might add the rule of law are not blah, blah. They are fundamental aspects of a civilised democratic society.

The guy may well be scum, but it still has to be proven by the rule of law.

Sorry, doesn't need to be proven anywhere, the Aus. government, rightly so, decides who enters the country and the decision doesn't have to be based on any rule of law relating to crime.

Yeah, so it seems. I have a problem with waiting for someone with family there to leave before banning him.

He may be scum, but he shouldn't be treated this way.

[Artisi]

"The man is alleged to have had involvement in a range of criminal activities, including drug offences, through his alleged association with an outlaw motorcycle gang in Victoria," the spokesman said."

So nothing proven then?

Ah well, I'm sure his wife and 2 kids understand this move. Who needs their dad, eh?

Shame Abbott had an Australian mother or else we could have sent him back to England, though I might not want to inflict that on the English. As an Australian I find this all wrong. Roach has character issues clearly but the State and Federal Governments should put up or shut up and nick, convict and deport rather than subvert the Law in this fashion.

No subversion of the law - just applying the rules of residency.

[BSJ]

I wish that Thai Visa would have a forum for idiots

If you ask nicely I am sure they would be willing to accommodate you.

[billphillips]

I am from the UK and I like the Australian stance on immigration. It appears that if you seem or appear to be anything less than a nice, upstanding and financially secure person .... Then you can <deleted> off. No visa = no entry (boat people) I wish that the UK was and had been more like that.

Edited May 19, 2015 by metisdead

[DiamondKing]

I wish that Thai Visa would have a forum for idiots

Simply suggest it to Thaivisa and apply to be the leading idiot, fair chance you will be successful with your application

And you will be automatically added as a member

[Saan]

Bigoted view by someone that has no idea what they are talking about, you know nothing other than what you have read in the press.

So you are denying they are a criminal organisation? You really don't want me to list their track record do you? I guess it wouldn't matter, just because you had a beer with a couple makes them all great guys in your book.

TRY AND KEEP UP WITH MY POSTS its tough I know but you can do it

As I have said there is no doubt out of the over 3000 members of the Bandido's as well as other MC clubs there is a tiny % of members that may be involved in criminal activities but to label every single member as a criminal is tarring all with the same brush, its a bigoted approach just as if I called all Aussies Criminals because a small percentage of the population commits crimes.

Of course you are right. Most members of these clubs are altar boys. Same with the Mafia. Only a tiny percentage are involved in criminal activities. You tar yourself when you join a criminal organization.

Beside, Roach is not just a member. He is the sergeant of arms, the enforcer.

[BSJ]

If you & dumbspunk & others are sooooo concerned...... maybe you would like to adopt him. I'm sure your family & neighbors would be happy to have him in the community.

At last, Australia has a government with enough balls to start thinking of the overall good of the country / community in relation to unwanted & undesirables.

There are millions of Aussies that have tatts that aren't on the radar. There's thousands of Aussies that are members of "clubs", not "gangs", that aren't on the radar. Why do you think the likes of this critter, Sergent at Arms of a notorious outlaw bike gang is on the radar ???? Oh, for what it's worth, I have several tatts & ride a bike. Wonder why I'm not on the radar.

Yes, yes, I know... civil liberties & human rights... blah blah.

Yeah, I'm waiting for your response...... give it your best shot.

Civil liberties, human rights and I might add the rule of law are not blah, blah. They are fundamental aspects of a civilised democratic society.

The guy may well be scum, but it still has to be proven by the rule of law.

Sorry, doesn't need to be proven anywhere, the Aus. government, rightly so, decides who enters the country and the decision doesn't have to be based on any rule of law relating to crime.

Yeah, so it seems. I have a problem with waiting for someone with family there to leave before banning him.

He may be scum, but he shouldn't be treated this way.

Cum on, he isn't stuck on a leaky boat out in the Andaman Sea, he is enjoying the pleasures of Pattaya...and doing some Muay Thai training as well.

[geriatrickid]

Seems a rather cowardly move by the Aussies to wait until he went on holiday. Why didn't they confront him face to face and deport him back to the UK?

Allegedly went on holiday. The Bandidos are a criminal organization and have affiliated members in Thailand. Do you know for sure he was on holiday. or are you accepting his statement at face value? Your use of the term cowardly is uncalled for and indicates that you are unaware of Australia's long term visa provisions. Please note as follows; From 15 October 2007, all applicants aged 18 years and over are required to sign a values statement when applying for selected visas. The statement requires applicants to confirm that they will respect the Australian way of life and obey the laws of Australia before being granted a visa. The person in question was required to sign a document that stated "I undertake to respect these values of Australian society during my stay in Australia and to obey the laws of Australia." The charter and activities of the Bandidos MC does not support that values statement. The fact that the bandido was the thug in charge of gang discipline indicates that he wasn't just some innocent motorcycle enthusiast.

The government of Australia acting within its legal scope deemed the bandido non eligible for a visa. He was aware of the risks when he left Australia for his personal adventure in Thailand. The government of Australia was brilliant because it saved the taxpayers the expense of a lengthy removal process. I suggest that he was being watched by one of the many Australian security operatives in Thailand and that he was not just training in muay thai.

[billphillips]

Guilt by association, It's a fact of life. He should change his drinking partners.

[impulse]

Stupid question, perhaps, but does a UK citizen need a visa to enter Oz?

Or are they throwing out the term "visa" to mean "permission to enter"?

[ExPratt]

"The man is alleged to have had involvement in a range of criminal activities, including drug offences, through his alleged association with an outlaw motorcycle gang in Victoria," the spokesman said."

So nothing proven then?

Ah well, I'm sure his wife and 2 kids understand this move. Who needs their dad, eh?

One could argue that being part of a violent criminal organization doesn't make him a candidate for father of the year.

When it comes to granting a discretionary visa, there is no obligation upon a government to grant it. Character attributes are indeed allowed to be taken into consideration when reviewing a visa application.

BTW, the Bandidos were just involved in a massive gunfight in Waco Texas. 9 dead, and 170 now arrested. Lovely organization he is Sergeant of Arms for.

What about his Wife and family. Think their could be a human rights case looming. They need to allow him access to his family , not residency but access

What about his wife and family? Why do they need to allow him access? He is a UK national, not Australian. They are free to visit him in lovely England, provide the wife and kids are free of a criminal record and not involved in criminal activity. No one is denying him his civil rights, since he is not a citizen of Australia. He's a foreigner involved with a criminal organization.

They are called HUMAN RIGHTS , not Australian or UK rights.and he would have a case regardless of his history

[Old Croc]

For those who don't understand, this is the relevant section of the Migration Act of Australia relating to the character test: (6) b (I) and (ii) would apply if he doesn't qualify under (6)(a).

An Act of Parliament is law, and Federal Law would usually overrule State criminal law if there is a conflict.

It paints with a pretty broad brush, and a Minister's decision is non-appellable.

Character test

(6) For the purposes of this section, a person does not pass the character test if:

(a) the person has a substantial criminal record (as defined by subsection (7)); or

(aa) the person has been convicted of an offence that was committed:

(i) while the person was in immigration detention; or

(ii) during an escape by the person from immigration detention; or

(iii) after the person escaped from immigration detention but before the person was taken into immigration detention again; or

(ab) the person has been convicted of an offence against section 197A; or

b the Minister reasonably suspects:

(i) that the person has been or is a member of a group or organisation, or has had or has an association with a group, organisation or person; and

(ii) that the group, organisation or person has been or is involved in criminal conduct; or

(ba) the Minister reasonably suspects that the person has been or is involved in conduct constituting one or more of the following:

(i) an offence under one or more of sections 233A to 234A (people smuggling);

(ii) an offence of trafficking in persons;

(iii) the crime of genocide, a crime against humanity, a war crime, a crime involving torture or slavery or a crime that is otherwise of serious international concern;

whether or not the person, or another person, has been convicted of an offence constituted by the conduct; or

© having regard to either or both of the following:

(i) the person's past and present criminal conduct;

(ii) the person's past and present general conduct;

the person is not of good character; or

(d) in the event the person were allowed to enter or to remain in Australia, there is a risk that the person would:

(i) engage in criminal conduct in Australia; or

(ii) harass, molest, intimidate or stalk another person in Australia; or

(iii) vilify a segment of the Australian community; or

(iv) incite discord in the Australian community or in a segment of that community; or

(v) represent a danger to the Australian community or to a segment of that community, whether by way of being liable to become involved in activities that are disruptive to, or in violence threatening harm to, that community or segment, or in any other way; or

(e) a court in Australia or a foreign country has:

(i) convicted the person of one or more sexually based offences involving a child; or

(ii) found the person guilty of such an offence, or found a charge against the person proved for such an offence, even if the person was discharged without a conviction; or

(f) the person has, in Australia or a foreign country, been charged with or indicted for one or more of the following:

(i) the crime of genocide;

(ii) a crime against humanity;

(iii) a war crime;

(iv) a crime involving torture or slavery;

(v) a crime that is otherwise of serious international concern; or

(g) the person has been assessed by the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation to be directly or indirectly a risk to security (within the meaning of section 4 of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979 ); or

(h) an Interpol notice in relation to the person, from which it is reasonable to infer that the person would present a risk to the Australian community or a segment of that community, is in force.

Otherwise, the person passes the character test .

Edited May 19, 2015 by Old Croc

[F4UCorsair]

'To train with martial arts experts'........ what a joke. This flabby turd wouldn't have done anything harder than masturbste or threaten somebody decent in the last 20 years.

Now all we have to do is exercise that right anothe hundred thousand or so times to unload a lot of other undesirables.

[tolsti]

This is not an isolated case... http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/rebels-bikie-club-boss-alex-vella-says-his-visa-ban-is-an-assault-against-human-rights-and-he-wants-to-come-home-from-malta/story-fni0cx12-1227118447607

[Lee4Life]

"The man is alleged to have had involvement in a range of criminal activities, including drug offences, through his alleged association with an outlaw motorcycle gang in Victoria," the spokesman said."

So nothing proven then?

Ah well, I'm sure his wife and 2 kids understand this move. Who needs their dad, eh?

"Alleged" is used in almost every news article due to libel and defamation laws. It doesn't mean there are no known grounds for the charges, it just means they aren't going to open the door for a lawsuit. This is especially true in Thailand.

If you want to take this poor fellow in out of the goodness of your heart then more power to you!

[Artisi]

So no evidence this guy has done something wrong other than be a member of an MC Club and using the excuse that refusal is based on his alleged charachter because he is in an MC club what an ignorant and bigoted approach

If he was committing crimes where there is proof OK no problem but when there is NO EVIDENCE of that then it is just a sad reflection on Australia and as for all you saddo's that are prepared to hang a guy because of the way he looks or your bigoted views on Bikers and Biker clubs well I wont say what I really want since i am coming off a months holiday already.

You dont even know the guy but are happy to have him removed from his family and kids on nothing more than made up crap.

You cannot be that naive.

If this is a multiple choice question, don't make it too complicated - keep it simple as yes / no.

[giddyup]

Yeah, so it seems. I have a problem with waiting for someone with family there to leave before banning him.

He may be scum, but he shouldn't be treated this way.

Perhaps your sympathy might be better directed towards the victims of the Bandidos, all the drug addicts they've created, many who have died, all the people that have been bashed or had money extorted from etc.

[Artisi]

For those who don't understand, this is the relevant section of the Migration Act of Australia relating to the character test: (6) b (I) and (ii) would apply if he doesn't qualify under (6)(a).

An Act of Parliament is law, and would usually overrule State criminal law if there is a conflict.

It paints with a pretty broad brush, and a Minister's decision is non-appellable.

Character test

(6) For the purposes of this section, a person does not pass the character test if:

(a) the person has a substantial criminal record (as defined by subsection (7)); or

(aa) the person has been convicted of an offence that was committed:

(i) while the person was in immigration detention; or

(ii) during an escape by the person from immigration detention; or

(iii) after the person escaped from immigration detention but before the person was taken into immigration detention again; or

(ab) the person has been convicted of an offence against section 197A; or

b the Minister reasonably suspects:

(i) that the person has been or is a member of a group or organisation, or has had or has an association with a group, organisation or person; and

(ii) that the group, organisation or person has been or is involved in criminal conduct; or

(ba) the Minister reasonably suspects that the person has been or is involved in conduct constituting one or more of the following:

(i) an offence under one or more of sections 233A to 234A (people smuggling);

(ii) an offence of trafficking in persons;

(iii) the crime of genocide, a crime against humanity, a war crime, a crime involving torture or slavery or a crime that is otherwise of serious international concern;

whether or not the person, or another person, has been convicted of an offence constituted by the conduct; or

© having regard to either or both of the following:

(i) the person's past and present criminal conduct;

(ii) the person's past and present general conduct;

the person is not of good character; or

(d) in the event the person were allowed to enter or to remain in Australia, there is a risk that the person would:

(i) engage in criminal conduct in Australia; or

(ii) harass, molest, intimidate or stalk another person in Australia; or

(iii) vilify a segment of the Australian community; or

(iv) incite discord in the Australian community or in a segment of that community; or

(v) represent a danger to the Australian community or to a segment of that community, whether by way of being liable to become involved in activities that are disruptive to, or in violence threatening harm to, that community or segment, or in any other way; or

(e) a court in Australia or a foreign country has:

(i) convicted the person of one or more sexually based offences involving a child; or

(ii) found the person guilty of such an offence, or found a charge against the person proved for such an offence, even if the person was discharged without a conviction; or

(f) the person has, in Australia or a foreign country, been charged with or indicted for one or more of the following:

(i) the crime of genocide;

(ii) a crime against humanity;

(iii) a war crime;

(iv) a crime involving torture or slavery;

(v) a crime that is otherwise of serious international concern; or

(g) the person has been assessed by the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation to be directly or indirectly a risk to security (within the meaning of section 4 of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979 ); or

(h) an Interpol notice in relation to the person, from which it is reasonable to infer that the person would present a risk to the Australian community or a segment of that community, is in force.

Otherwise, the person passes the character test .

Probably far too complicated for some to understand - so expect more stupid posts as to why he should have his residency status granted.

[Jiggo]

Is that a chin or a small bottom on his face......

[Si Thea01]

What about his Wife and family. Think their could be a human rights case looming. They need to allow him access to his family , not residency but access

Is this guy his brother? They really look a lot alike.

So you post a picture of the current Agriculture Minister, Barnaby Joyce and a SA remark. Is this an effort to highlight your intelligence? Nor even funny. Sorry, but you failed.

[FiestyFarang]

This don't look good for OZ it is your problem and you dump it on Thailand could let him return to Oz then deported him back to the UK if that is where he is from.Funny a prison colony refusing a criminal, now that is classic

Are you so far behind with the times that you believe Australia in 2015 is a prison colony? PS I am not Australian but up with the times! Having lived in Australia I can tell you if it was a prison there would be a lot of crime all over the world to go to that prison.

[novo58]

How often do we read here in TVF about a falang who breaks the Thai laws and everyone rushes in to say........................" kick him out of thailand" or " Thailand is better of without this one " or " another quality tourist Thailand can do without" ................................Is this guy any different.

How often do we read here in TVF about someone denied entry to Thailand at a border crossing due to some "visa" or other issue...........................IF the Immigration officer has ANY doubts he can refuse you entry and there is nothing you can do about it .

In the case of this Bandido..............Australia is simply applying is laws on rights of entry to the country. He seems to have had plenty of opportunity to apply for citizenship which he obviously did not do. So he has been denied re-entry accordingly. He IS NOT an Australian citizen stranded as he can always return to his native UK or fulfill the requirements to stay in Thailand and bring his family to either the UK or Thailand.

Also , just for those who dont know ...............the Bandido's have been labelled as an OUTLAW MOTORCYCLE GANG ( with the emphasis on gang) by many Australian govt departments and therefore anyone connected with the group is " guilty by association". You might not like the concept of " guilt by association" but it exists.

[Artisi]

I wish that Thai Visa would have a forum for idiots

Simply suggest it to Thaivisa and apply to be the leading idiot, fair chance you will be successful with your application

And you will be automatically added as a member

That's ok, I will be able to bring a bit of decorum to the discussions and will be looking forward to your first post.

[Bluespunk]

"The man is alleged to have had involvement in a range of criminal activities, including drug offences, through his alleged association with an outlaw motorcycle gang in Victoria," the spokesman said."

So nothing proven then?

Ah well, I'm sure his wife and 2 kids understand this move. Who needs their dad, eh?

"Alleged" is used in almost every news article due to libel and defamation laws. It doesn't mean there are no known grounds for the charges, it just means they aren't going to open the door for a lawsuit. This is especially true in Thailand.

If you want to take this poor fellow in out of the goodness of your heart then more power to you!

Nope, just feel the rule of law should apply to all.

[Bluespunk]

Yeah, so it seems. I have a problem with waiting for someone with family there to leave before banning him.

He may be scum, but he shouldn't be treated this way.

Perhaps your sympathy might be better directed towards the victims of the Bandidos, all the drug addicts they've created, many who have died, all the people that have been bashed or had money extorted from etc.

Where have I expressed sympathy for him?

My concern is with governments over riding the rights of the individual.

The rule of law should apply to all.

[flyingdoc]

Actual facts, please !

[alex88]

Australia is in persecution mode now with new laws whereby you can be criminalised just for being in a 'motorbike gang' regardless of whether you actually did anything wrong. People are getting harassed by police just for having a motorbike. One guy recently went to put fuel in his Harley at a local petrol station and 21 police cars showed up to harrass him, he wasn't in a gang and didn't do anything. He said this happens almost daily now.

[Neurath]

Seems a rather cowardly move by the Aussies to wait until he went on holiday. Why didn't they confront him face to face and deport him back to the UK?

Allegedly went on holiday. The Bandidos are a criminal organization and have affiliated members in Thailand. Do you know for sure he was on holiday. or are you accepting his statement at face value? Your use of the term cowardly is uncalled for and indicates that you are unaware of Australia's long term visa provisions. Please note as follows; From 15 October 2007, all applicants aged 18 years and over are required to sign a values statement when applying for selected visas. The statement requires applicants to confirm that they will respect the Australian way of life and obey the laws of Australia before being granted a visa. The person in question was required to sign a document that stated "I undertake to respect these values of Australian society during my stay in Australia and to obey the laws of Australia." The charter and activities of the Bandidos MC does not support that values statement. The fact that the bandido was the thug in charge of gang discipline indicates that he wasn't just some innocent motorcycle enthusiast.

The government of Australia acting within its legal scope deemed the bandido non eligible for a visa. He was aware of the risks when he left Australia for his personal adventure in Thailand. The government of Australia was brilliant because it saved the taxpayers the expense of a lengthy removal process. I suggest that he was being watched by one of the many Australian security operatives in Thailand and that he was not just training in muay thai.

Probably was watched given recent events in Australia:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/03/06/17-charged-qld-bandidos-drug-sting

6 MAR 2015 - 7:34PM

“Seventeen people face more than 110 charges after police raided properties in southeast Queensland as part of a six-month drug sting.”

[simple1]

Stupid question, perhaps, but does a UK citizen need a visa to enter Oz?

Yes