Living it up on the Pension

[giddyup]

Replying to Tharae....

No, it is totally different (age and disability) and I am not rorting the system. You may not know the portability rules very well but I do after spending 9 months with my lawyer, 8 years ago setting up my application. I have been manifestly written off due to a rare form of schizophrenia. I have all the information to prove it (also 25 years of background medical records) and have not been under review now for 7 years. My JCA officer told me I would not be reviewed again. I am certainly not cocky as living with this particular disorder that I have is not easy.

I have been getting my payment here in Thailand for 7 years, every second week (put into my bank account in Australia) and withdrawn using Advance Cash Withdrawal (Citibank Card with no fees has saved me a fortune) while getting a very good Visa rate of exchange. I have other investments back in Australia. My life here in Thailand is unbelievably good.

Obviously the schizophrenia isn't preventing you from leading a normal life, ie managing investments, using internet banking etc.

I am (very) medicated now (have been for 9 years) and it works well. I lead a normal life but I suffer still daily from delusional thinking. I spent 25 years working for a mining company before I got sick to the point that I could not cope in the workforce. I was forced from my job as a Data Base Coder.

I am under a Trust in Australia, my investments are being looked after by a independent group (all helped by Centrelink). Only a certain amount of money gets put into my bank fortnightly, I am under the guise that I cannot spend anymore then that.

I am doing pretty well but my days are very, very regulated and my partner is very understanding. I have to generally do the same things at the same time most days. Very regimented. Like most with this illness, I am very intelligent but this often gets me into trouble as my belief set becomes delusional and I can make some pretty big mistakes (and believe me, I can).

Yes, I cope but it is a lot of work. When I do get sick, I have a good hospital that I can go to. My partner hires additional staff (nurses) on hand to keep me in tow. In reality, in Australia I cannot get as good a service.

You have to admit you come from a very lucky country, one that allows you to lead a normal life (your words) but pays you to retire to Thailand, albeit with a regimented lifestyle. You know most workers lead regimented lifestyles as well, get up at the same time and go to bed same time 5 days a week. Some of them may even have the odd delusional thought like blowing their boss or co-workers away, and a lot of them are stressed out but continue to work anyway.

[giddyup]

I have been a disability pensioner in Oz now since '86 .... have been many changes since then and at present I am only allowed out of the country 4 weeks in a 12 month period ...

I have been married to a Thai now for 8 years and I still have 2 years to wait to get my age pension so we can travel together and stay longer than a month to see family in Thailand ... Despicable!!

My philosophy in life now is to never lie, cheat, steal, deceive because I know the government HATES competition

How long do you think is a reasonable time to remain outside the country and still receive your pension, if you're not an expat and continue to reside in Oz? Unfortunately, the government has had to bring in restrictions owing to people on this type of pension rorting the system. Not saying you are and I don't know how disabled you are but for you to be in receipt of this pension since 1986, it must be serious. Now if this is the case, how are you able to travel more than the 4 weeks in a year that you are now allowed?

Rorting the system? What planet are you on? Every pensioner living overseas saves the Australian Government money. The supplement is cut, Centrelink does not have to pay rent assistance, Medicare rebates, PBS medication etc. And the state governments don't have to give discounts on travel, electricity, gas, car registration etc. etc. Perhaps you could make the effort to understand the system's basic economics before accusing people of rorting. Or perhaps you are one of those people who still regard Australia as a penal colony.

The difference is if living in Australia, the money is spent in Australia, which is cycled back into the economy, living here the money is spent here, zero benefit to Australia.

[bazza40]

I have been a disability pensioner in Oz now since '86 .... have been many changes since then and at present I am only allowed out of the country 4 weeks in a 12 month period ...

I have been married to a Thai now for 8 years and I still have 2 years to wait to get my age pension so we can travel together and stay longer than a month to see family in Thailand ... Despicable!!

My philosophy in life now is to never lie, cheat, steal, deceive because I know the government HATES competition

How long do you think is a reasonable time to remain outside the country and still receive your pension, if you're not an expat and continue to reside in Oz? Unfortunately, the government has had to bring in restrictions owing to people on this type of pension rorting the system. Not saying you are and I don't know how disabled you are but for you to be in receipt of this pension since 1986, it must be serious. Now if this is the case, how are you able to travel more than the 4 weeks in a year that you are now allowed?

Rorting the system? What planet are you on? Every pensioner living overseas saves the Australian Government money. The supplement is cut, Centrelink does not have to pay rent assistance, Medicare rebates, PBS medication etc. And the state governments don't have to give discounts on travel, electricity, gas, car registration etc. etc. Perhaps you could make the effort to understand the system's basic economics before accusing people of rorting. Or perhaps you are one of those people who still regard Australia as a penal colony.

The difference is if living in Australia, the money is spent in Australia, which is cycled back into the economy, living here the money is spent here, zero benefit to Australia.

So? Having paid hefty taxes all my working life, then having public servants and politicians screw up my retirement with their sheer incompetence before and during the GFC, I'm supposed to stay in Australia on a much lower standard living out of loyalty to the Australian economy? <deleted>.

Edited May 26, 2015 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed, keep it civil please.

[totally thaied up]

Replying to Tharae....

No, it is totally different (age and disability) and I am not rorting the system. You may not know the portability rules very well but I do after spending 9 months with my lawyer, 8 years ago setting up my application. I have been manifestly written off due to a rare form of schizophrenia. I have all the information to prove it (also 25 years of background medical records) and have not been under review now for 7 years. My JCA officer told me I would not be reviewed again. I am certainly not cocky as living with this particular disorder that I have is not easy.

I have been getting my payment here in Thailand for 7 years, every second week (put into my bank account in Australia) and withdrawn using Advance Cash Withdrawal (Citibank Card with no fees has saved me a fortune) while getting a very good Visa rate of exchange. I have other investments back in Australia. My life here in Thailand is unbelievably good.

Obviously the schizophrenia isn't preventing you from leading a normal life, ie managing investments, using internet banking etc.

I am (very) medicated now (have been for 9 years) and it works well. I lead a normal life but I suffer still daily from delusional thinking. I spent 25 years working for a mining company before I got sick to the point that I could not cope in the workforce. I was forced from my job as a Data Base Coder.

I am under a Trust in Australia, my investments are being looked after by a independent group (all helped by Centrelink). Only a certain amount of money gets put into my bank fortnightly, I am under the guise that I cannot spend anymore then that.

I am doing pretty well but my days are very, very regulated and my partner is very understanding. I have to generally do the same things at the same time most days. Very regimented. Like most with this illness, I am very intelligent but this often gets me into trouble as my belief set becomes delusional and I can make some pretty big mistakes (and believe me, I can).

Yes, I cope but it is a lot of work. When I do get sick, I have a good hospital that I can go to. My partner hires additional staff (nurses) on hand to keep me in tow. In reality, in Australia I cannot get as good a service.

You have to admit you come from a very lucky country, one that allows you to lead a normal life (your words) but pays you to retire to Thailand, albeit with a regimented lifestyle. You know most workers lead regimented lifestyles as well, get up at the same time and go to bed same time 5 days a week. Some of them may even have the odd delusional thought like blowing their boss or co-workers away, and a lot of them are stressed out but continue to work anyway.

Yes, I also understand stigmatization as well from others that have no clue about mental health.

[Si Thea01]

I have been a disability pensioner in Oz now since '86 .... have been many changes since then and at present I am only allowed out of the country 4 weeks in a 12 month period ...

I have been married to a Thai now for 8 years and I still have 2 years to wait to get my age pension so we can travel together and stay longer than a month to see family in Thailand ... Despicable!!

My philosophy in life now is to never lie, cheat, steal, deceive because I know the government HATES competition

How long do you think is a reasonable time to remain outside the country and still receive your pension, if you're not an expat and continue to reside in Oz? Unfortunately, the government has had to bring in restrictions owing to people on this type of pension rorting the system. Not saying you are and I don't know how disabled you are but for you to be in receipt of this pension since 1986, it must be serious. Now if this is the case, how are you able to travel more than the 4 weeks in a year that you are now allowed?

Rorting the system? What planet are you on? Every pensioner living overseas saves the Australian Government money. The supplement is cut, Centrelink does not have to pay rent assistance, Medicare rebates, PBS medication etc. And the state governments don't have to give discounts on travel, electricity, gas, car registration etc. etc. Perhaps you could make the effort to understand the system's basic economics before accusing people of rorting. Or perhaps you are one of those people who still regard Australia as a penal colony.

Not your planet that's for sure. No one said he was rorting the system but if you're clueless and do not know that many are, as per Centrelink's own statistics, then how can one debate a subject with you. Not every pensioner living overseas is legitimately receiving the DP, the same back in Australia, so what is with you wanting to go into combat over a factual statement. I suggest you read what I wrote, slowly, then, if you're capable, comprehend what was stated and maybe take a deep breath before you go ballistic.

Yes there are savings but those who are rorting the system are taking more out of the country than those who are receiving the DP legitimately whilst living abroad. And please wake up, I have not accused a single person of rorting but if you say it is not happening then you are a total goose. And what is this with the penal colony, I'd be really interested in how you rate the relevancy of this to the topic.

[Linzz]

These replies are only partially accurate. I'm going through the process at the moment. Here's how it really works. If you have an Australian Working Life Residency of 35 years or more (AWLR is calculated from the day you turn 16 to the day you reach pension age and you do not have to actually be working during this time), you only need to be resident in Australia when you apply for the pension and whilst it is being approved. Once you receive your written advice from Centrelink confirming approval and your first pension payment has been deposited into your Australian bank account, you are then free to move OS permanently. Because you have an AWLR of 35+ years you will receive the full BASE pension but only the BASE Age Supplement. (The current rate for the BASE Pension and Base Age Supplement is AUD $402.00 per week for a single person). On the other hand, if you have been living outside Australia more than you have in Australia over the years preceding your pension age being reached, then you will need to live in Australia for 2 years from your pension date before your pension becomes portable and then you can live wherever you want. I have a mate who has been living in Thailand 6 months a year and in Oz 6 months a year for the last 10 years. He reaches pension age in July. He has to live in Australia for 2 years before he can take his pension with him when he returns to Thailand permanently. In my case, I was in Thailand for 7 months from Oct 2014 - end of April 2015. The 2 year rule does not affect me. I am back in Thailand, but will be returning to Oz in mid-June ( I reach pension age in July). I will have to only be resident in Australia, once I return, until my pension is approved and the first payment is in my aussie bank account, then I free to leave permanently and receive the pension in Thailand, until the day I depart this world. The AWLR will still apply though. So if you have an AWLR of say 28 years, then you would divide the $402 by 35 and multiply by 28 to calculate your part pension. $402/35*28 = $321.60 per week. Pension rates are reviewed every March & September, but for those who are permanently overseas they are reviewed quarterly. Also the pension is only paid every 4 weeks if you are overseas and if you wish Centrelink will pay the pension directly into your OS bank account. They will remit in the currency of the country you are living in or USD. They use the Reserve Bank exchange rate on the day of remitting and no fees are charged by Centrelink. However, your OS bank will most likely deduct a small fee when the transfer is credited to your account. A small trap to be aware of that I have yet to confirm, is that in Thailand your bank may deduct income tax from the transfer amount as they consider regular payments of this nature to be income. This would then mean having to lodge a tax return in Thailand if this turns out to be correct.

Double taxation then

[Linzz]

I have been a disability pensioner in Oz now since '86 .... have been many changes since then and at present I am only allowed out of the country 4 weeks in a 12 month period ...

I have been married to a Thai now for 8 years and I still have 2 years to wait to get my age pension so we can travel together and stay longer than a month to see family in Thailand ... Despicable!!

My philosophy in life now is to never lie, cheat, steal, deceive because I know the government HATES competition

How long do you think is a reasonable time to remain outside the country and still receive your pension, if you're not an expat and continue to reside in Oz? Unfortunately, the government has had to bring in restrictions owing to people on this type of pension rorting the system. Not saying you are and I don't know how disabled you are but for you to be in receipt of this pension since 1986, it must be serious. Now if this is the case, how are you able to travel more than the 4 weeks in a year that you are now allowed?

Rorting the system? What planet are you on? Every pensioner living overseas saves the Australian Government money. The supplement is cut, Centrelink does not have to pay rent assistance, Medicare rebates, PBS medication etc. And the state governments don't have to give discounts on travel, electricity, gas, car registration etc. etc. Perhaps you could make the effort to understand the system's basic economics before accusing people of rorting. Or perhaps you are one of those people who still regard Australia as a penal colony.

The difference is if living in Australia, the money is spent in Australia, which is cycled back into the economy, living here the money is spent here, zero benefit to Australia.

That may be cancelled out by the cost of being a liability to the state as you get older

[bazza40]

I have been a disability pensioner in Oz now since '86 .... have been many changes since then and at present I am only allowed out of the country 4 weeks in a 12 month period ...

I have been married to a Thai now for 8 years and I still have 2 years to wait to get my age pension so we can travel together and stay longer than a month to see family in Thailand ... Despicable!!

My philosophy in life now is to never lie, cheat, steal, deceive because I know the government HATES competition

How long do you think is a reasonable time to remain outside the country and still receive your pension, if you're not an expat and continue to reside in Oz? Unfortunately, the government has had to bring in restrictions owing to people on this type of pension rorting the system. Not saying you are and I don't know how disabled you are but for you to be in receipt of this pension since 1986, it must be serious. Now if this is the case, how are you able to travel more than the 4 weeks in a year that you are now allowed?

Rorting the system? What planet are you on? Every pensioner living overseas saves the Australian Government money. The supplement is cut, Centrelink does not have to pay rent assistance, Medicare rebates, PBS medication etc. And the state governments don't have to give discounts on travel, electricity, gas, car registration etc. etc. Perhaps you could make the effort to understand the system's basic economics before accusing people of rorting. Or perhaps you are one of those people who still regard Australia as a penal colony.

Not your planet that's for sure. No one said he was rorting the system but if you're clueless and do not know that many are, as per Centrelink's own statistics, then how can one debate a subject with you. Not every pensioner living overseas is legitimately receiving the DP, the same back in Australia, so what is with you wanting to go into combat over a factual statement. I suggest you read what I wrote, slowly, then, if you're capable, comprehend what was stated and maybe take a deep breath before you go ballistic.

Yes there are savings but those who are rorting the system are taking more out of the country than those who are receiving the DP legitimately whilst living abroad. And please wake up, I have not accused a single person of rorting but if you say it is not happening then you are a total goose. And what is this with the penal colony, I'd be really interested in how you rate the relevancy of this to the topic.

Indeed. What's the difference in your mind between rorting the system overseas and rorting the system in Australia? The impression you convey is that pensioners overseas are more deserving of your opprobrium. On the basis they are not contributing to the Australian economy? Do you realise Australia is now rated the most expensive country in the world to live? That's why they are overseas. Duh.

Perhaps you are not aware of Centrelink's rule that if you are applying for an age pension, you need 35 years residency in Australia AND have to be resident in Australia at the time you apply for the age pension. If you have 35 years residency BUT are living overseas when you become qualified by reason of age, then you have to return to Australia for 2 years and wait that time before they will pay the pension - and it's not restrospective payment either. To me, that's the equivalent of a prison sentence - hence the reference to a penal colony. Have I explained it to you with sufficient clarity?

[norbra]

You will be grantef your pension on return to Australia if you satisfy Centrelink that your intention is to reside in Australia long term

[F4UCorsair]

I asked the question to a Centrelink officer, why should my aged pension be reduced because I worked all my life and paid into a super plan? I said someone who has drawn the dole all his life gets a full pension, yet I'm penalised because I had the forethought to buy a super plan. His response was, who would you rather be, the dole bludger just getting the pension, or yourself that has part pension and super as well?

Of course we both know who you would rather be giddyup, but I get NOTHING!!! Not a cent, no part pension, no other benefits.

I understand in the English system everybody receives an aged pension, not means tested, but I don't think a national superannuation system exists. I'm relying on an English friend for this information.

The aged pension in Australia was originally established as a safety net for people who had no assets, but has evolved into what people think is an entitlement, not surprising when socialist governments tell the leaners that the well off should be taxed more so that they can live off the spoils.

I even pay Medicare on money that I've already paid it on, e.g., out of my monthly draw, there is a component of my own contributions, and a component of earnings, but I pay the levy on ALL I draw, so am paying twice on part of my income.

The sooner an Australian government moves to 15% superannuation contributions, the better, and the aged pension will be phased out over 40 or so years, as it should be. There will still be the rorters, of course, who are able to conceal assets and be carried by the rest of us, unfortunately.

If that's not done, then tax should be increased by several percent, and everybody entitled to an aged pension. It seems simple enough to me, but that comes from a perspective of being sick to death of keeping people.

[norbra]

I asked the question to a Centrelink officer, why should my aged pension be reduced because I worked all my life and paid into a super plan? I said someone who has drawn the dole all his life gets a full pension, yet I'm penalised because I had the forethought to buy a super plan. His response was, who would you rather be, the dole bludger just getting the pension, or yourself that has part pension and super as well?

Of course we both know who you would rather be giddyup, but I get NOTHING!!! Not a cent, no part pension, no other benefits.

I understand in the English system everybody receives an aged pension, not means tested, but I don't think a national superannuation system exists. I'm relying on an English friend for this information.

The aged pension in Australia was originally established as a safety net for people who had no assets, but has evolved into what people think is an entitlement, not surprising when socialist governments tell the leaners that the well off should be taxed more so that they can live off the spoils.

I even pay Medicare on money that I've already paid it on, e.g., out of my monthly draw, there is a component of my own contributions, and a component of earnings, but I pay the levy on ALL I draw, so am paying twice on part of my income.

The sooner an Australian government moves to 15% superannuation contributions, the better, and the aged pension will be phased out over 40 or so years, as it should be. There will still be the rorters, of course, who are able to conceal assets and be carried by the rest of us, unfortunately.

If that's not done, then tax should be increased by several percent, and everybody entitled to an aged pension. It seems simple enough to me, but that comes from a perspective of being sick to death of keeping people.

You want to pay more tax so that you can get some of it back as a pension?

[bazza40]

I asked the question to a Centrelink officer, why should my aged pension be reduced because I worked all my life and paid into a super plan? I said someone who has drawn the dole all his life gets a full pension, yet I'm penalised because I had the forethought to buy a super plan. His response was, who would you rather be, the dole bludger just getting the pension, or yourself that has part pension and super as well?

Of course we both know who you would rather be giddyup, but I get NOTHING!!! Not a cent, no part pension, no other benefits.

I understand in the English system everybody receives an aged pension, not means tested, but I don't think a national superannuation system exists. I'm relying on an English friend for this information.

The aged pension in Australia was originally established as a safety net for people who had no assets, but has evolved into what people think is an entitlement, not surprising when socialist governments tell the leaners that the well off should be taxed more so that they can live off the spoils.

I even pay Medicare on money that I've already paid it on, e.g., out of my monthly draw, there is a component of my own contributions, and a component of earnings, but I pay the levy on ALL I draw, so am paying twice on part of my income.

The sooner an Australian government moves to 15% superannuation contributions, the better, and the aged pension will be phased out over 40 or so years, as it should be. There will still be the rorters, of course, who are able to conceal assets and be carried by the rest of us, unfortunately.

If that's not done, then tax should be increased by several percent, and everybody entitled to an aged pension. It seems simple enough to me, but that comes from a perspective of being sick to death of keeping people.

If you are long-term unemployed, disabled, or at basic wage level serving coffee in a McDonald's, a 15% super contribution is not going to help you much. So probably a tax increase is the way to go. However, tax increases are quite hard to sell to an electorate.

I disagree you get nothing. If you were contributing to an super fund and earning big bucks, you were taxed at 15% instead of the top rate. Same goes for salary sacrifice.

In pension phase, the earnings of your super fund are tax-free. The richer you are, the greater the benefit you get. If you own shares in the super fund paying a fully-franked dividend, you could be getting a fat cheque every year from the ATO. So I think you're coming the raw prawn.

I'm a part pensioner, and I think the current payment system in Australia is reasonable. What I think is unreasonable are all the rules and regulations surrounding whether you are overseas or not. While said rules probably provide employment for quite a few public servants, what do they actually produce? If you've been granted a pension, you should be able to take it anywhere you want - just as Britons, Americans and Canadians do.

[norbra]

Over night the US$ appreciated against most major currencies but the THB kept pace with it,this is why I am considering have my Oz pension paid directly into my Thai bank account in US$...any thoughts please

[Si Thea01]

Bazza40

Rorting is rorting no matter where it occurs, with the only difference, in my mind, is that those residing in Oz get more, via the supplements, than those residing overseas, which I note you were kind enough to highlight in a previous post. And yes I have a harsh criticism of those who rort the system whilst in receipt of the Disability Pension either overseas or back home. Never made mention of the Aged Pension, so please do not twist things. Yes I am quite aware of the cost of living and why people have moved overseas but this is not the case in all situations, so please stop generalising. You also use the exclamation "DUH." Please, look at yourself before proffering such an expression. Maybe if the cap fits, hey?

And I was saying that those who receive the DP, under false pretences, are taking more out of Australia then those who are legitimately receiving that particular pension whilst living abroad. Has nothing to do with their not contributing to the Australian economy. No where, and I say no where, did I make any mention of this, however, you have mentioned economics, once in each of your posts. So please if you refer to something, make sure you realise who made the point that you want to criticise. Getting confused in your hast to decry my opinion?

You appear to have trouble understanding that I'm an Aussie, and have a knowledge of how things work in my country, yet you display a temerity, through your writing style, to suggest I'm in need of an education. You know nothing about me, yet you have the gall to assume that I have no knowledge of the subject we are discussing. So please, get off the assumer's conga line and rather than adopting your current approach, just ask, don't attempt to educate someone unless you are certain that their knowledge is not as yours.

You appear to be an intelligent person, so why are you having trouble comprehending what has been written. As I said, which again you obviously did not read, Disability Pension, never mentioned the Aged Pension. I am au fait with the requirements for the aged pension and, as you state, they are the rules applied by Centrelink. Rules, do you understand what that means? So are you suggesting that none should apply and people should be entitled to the Aged Pension without proving their eligibility. Are you from the entitlement brigade? People have to understand that regulations are put in place for a reason, not to create, as you put it, a prison sentence, hence you question re Oz being a penal colony. If people have trouble accepting the rules in place, then tough, abide by them if they want that pension, if they're entitled to it. Despite the rules applied re obtaining the Aged Pension, it too is capable of being rorted.

Many wealthy people, not all, in one way or another, have concealed their assets in order to, at least, receive a part pension, the reason, to obtain a Seniors Health Card and the benefits attached to it? And this is a proven fact. Sure the topic is about living it up on the pension but when I initially responded, it was to an apparent unfortunate Aussie on the DP and I made sure that he was aware that I was not accusing him of rorting. I also included in my post that this occurs, not only in Australia but overseas. So if you are so knowledgeable of the social Service System in Australia, are you going to tell me that the rules are so archaic that they are penalising all in the system or just a few who have trouble in accepting any type of governance.

[F4UCorsair]

I asked the question to a Centrelink officer, why should my aged pension be reduced because I worked all my life and paid into a super plan? I said someone who has drawn the dole all his life gets a full pension, yet I'm penalised because I had the forethought to buy a super plan. His response was, who would you rather be, the dole bludger just getting the pension, or yourself that has part pension and super as well?

Of course we both know who you would rather be giddyup, but I get NOTHING!!! Not a cent, no part pension, no other benefits.

I understand in the English system everybody receives an aged pension, not means tested, but I don't think a national superannuation system exists. I'm relying on an English friend for this information.

The aged pension in Australia was originally established as a safety net for people who had no assets, but has evolved into what people think is an entitlement, not surprising when socialist governments tell the leaners that the well off should be taxed more so that they can live off the spoils.

I even pay Medicare on money that I've already paid it on, e.g., out of my monthly draw, there is a component of my own contributions, and a component of earnings, but I pay the levy on ALL I draw, so am paying twice on part of my income.

The sooner an Australian government moves to 15% superannuation contributions, the better, and the aged pension will be phased out over 40 or so years, as it should be. There will still be the rorters, of course, who are able to conceal assets and be carried by the rest of us, unfortunately.

If that's not done, then tax should be increased by several percent, and everybody entitled to an aged pension. It seems simple enough to me, but that comes from a perspective of being sick to death of keeping people.

You want to pay more tax so that you can get some of it back as a pension?

You don't understand, but I probably didn't express myself adequately either.

If the aged pension is to be sustained, and it's not sustainable currently, then we must pay more tax, and that's not something I would not look forward to doing. But.....if the aged pension is paid to one, it should be paid to all. I didn't make my position clear. There should be no tax free threshold, and those who either don't, won't, or can't contribute to a retirement fund, should be paying more tax to cover an aged pension. I find it offensive that I've paid massive tax for years and then receive nothing back, not a cent.

Look at it this way. Somebody who goes through life in an average job pays very little tax, and because of the inflationary effect, he will get back in an aged pension all the tax he paid in his working life in less than ten years. Then it has to be funded by future generations of taxpayers, and that is not sustainable.

Edited May 27, 2015 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

I asked the question to a Centrelink officer, why should my aged pension be reduced because I worked all my life and paid into a super plan? I said someone who has drawn the dole all his life gets a full pension, yet I'm penalised because I had the forethought to buy a super plan. His response was, who would you rather be, the dole bludger just getting the pension, or yourself that has part pension and super as well?

Of course we both know who you would rather be giddyup, but I get NOTHING!!! Not a cent, no part pension, no other benefits.

I understand in the English system everybody receives an aged pension, not means tested, but I don't think a national superannuation system exists. I'm relying on an English friend for this information.

The aged pension in Australia was originally established as a safety net for people who had no assets, but has evolved into what people think is an entitlement, not surprising when socialist governments tell the leaners that the well off should be taxed more so that they can live off the spoils.

I even pay Medicare on money that I've already paid it on, e.g., out of my monthly draw, there is a component of my own contributions, and a component of earnings, but I pay the levy on ALL I draw, so am paying twice on part of my income.

The sooner an Australian government moves to 15% superannuation contributions, the better, and the aged pension will be phased out over 40 or so years, as it should be. There will still be the rorters, of course, who are able to conceal assets and be carried by the rest of us, unfortunately.

If that's not done, then tax should be increased by several percent, and everybody entitled to an aged pension. It seems simple enough to me, but that comes from a perspective of being sick to death of keeping people.

If you are long-term unemployed, disabled, or at basic wage level serving coffee in a McDonald's, a 15% super contribution is not going to help you much. So probably a tax increase is the way to go. However, tax increases are quite hard to sell to an electorate.

I disagree you get nothing. If you were contributing to an super fund and earning big bucks, you were taxed at 15% instead of the top rate. Same goes for salary sacrifice.

In pension phase, the earnings of your super fund are tax-free. The richer you are, the greater the benefit you get. If you own shares in the super fund paying a fully-franked dividend, you could be getting a fat cheque every year from the ATO. So I think you're coming the raw prawn.

I'm a part pensioner, and I think the current payment system in Australia is reasonable. What I think is unreasonable are all the rules and regulations surrounding whether you are overseas or not. While said rules probably provide employment for quite a few public servants, what do they actually produce? If you've been granted a pension, you should be able to take it anywhere you want - just as Britons, Americans and Canadians do.

One problem with that bazza is that you spend your pension overseas, and the government is further denied the 10% GST. Maybe if the aged pension, with which I disagree entirely, incidentally, is reduced by 10%, it may be a little more likely the government would relax the rules??

I worked damned hard and long for what I have, and now spend a lot of money from a self funded retirement fund. I paid 15% tax on my superannuation contributions, and made huge injections from undeducted contributions, i.e, income on which I paid over 50% tax including medicare levy (and I never get anything from medicare because I have my own private health insurance!!), so a tax free income in retirement is not unreasonable. You pay no tax on your aged pension either.

Franking credits....well, tax has been paid on dividends, so what are you advocating....that the government keep MY franking credits?? What I find most nauseating about this whole issue is that those who contributed the least get the most, and they want more. They're the ones advocating for high income earners to be taxed even higher. High income earners are generally high spenders, they keep the cogs turning, spending, buying, eating out, often employing others, directly or indirectly. I just don't understand the greed from those who paid almost no tax, and feel that they should have a future funded by others.

[Tassie Norm]

Norbra in his post #42 asked what currency Centrelink will use to send money O/S.

My pension is thru Dept of Veterans Affairs however it is my understanding the same principles and procedure applies to Centrelink.

My pensions is paid 4 weekly. It is paid into my SCB bank account in Baht. I was NOT given a choice of currencies when I elected to have my pension paid O/S 18 months ago. Of interest is that it is not necessarily sent by the Reserve Bank - it can be their agent. True, they claim no charge sending overseas but........

I had reason at one time to query an amount deposited in my SCB account. In summary, at my local branch a helpful employee telephoned SCB Bangkok. I spoke with an employee who spoke fluent English. I asked him about local charges/fees. On arrival home I found I had been emailed three statements - past 3 months - relating to my account. The following fees, incidentally, do NOT show up on my on-line SCB account statement.

The docs revealed that the Reserve banks agent - Citibank - had charged me a "senders fee" of 150 Baht. Sly bastards could not legally charge the fee in Oz as it is supposed to be sent free. So Citibank charges at this end. Also SCB charged a flat 125B plus 0.001% of the received funds. Of course every month is different due to fluctuating exchange rates. For info folks.

Oh, another poster mentioned risk of Thai tax - to date, although my pension is not inconsiderable, nothing about tax on said pension has been raised.

[Si Thea01]

Norbra in his post #42 asked what currency Centrelink will use to send money O/S.

My pension is thru Dept of Veterans Affairs however it is my understanding the same principles and procedure applies to Centrelink.

My pensions is paid 4 weekly. It is paid into my SCB bank account in Baht. I was NOT given a choice of currencies when I elected to have my pension paid O/S 18 months ago. Of interest is that it is not necessarily sent by the Reserve Bank - it can be their agent. True, they claim no charge sending overseas but........

I had reason at one time to query an amount deposited in my SCB account. In summary, at my local branch a helpful employee telephoned SCB Bangkok. I spoke with an employee who spoke fluent English. I asked him about local charges/fees. On arrival home I found I had been emailed three statements - past 3 months - relating to my account. The following fees, incidentally, do NOT show up on my on-line SCB account statement.

The docs revealed that the Reserve banks agent - Citibank - had charged me a "senders fee" of 150 Baht. Sly bastards could not legally charge the fee in Oz as it is supposed to be sent free. So Citibank charges at this end. Also SCB charged a flat 125B plus 0.001% of the received funds. Of course every month is different due to fluctuating exchange rates. For info folks.

Oh, another poster mentioned risk of Thai tax - to date, although my pension is not inconsiderable, nothing about tax on said pension has been raised.

Unlike yourself, I am a self funded retiree and send money from Australia every month. I do no keep an excessive amount of funds in Thailand for obvious reasons but as I household bills to pay, I send funds after I have received bank interest. Helps cover the costs. However, a week ago I experienced a problem with Citibank when funds that I's sent, and were to arrive on the Friday, did not. I queried my bank, who in turn checked with Citibank, who advised them that the money had arrived but could not be forwarded as I had insufficient funds in my account. Never had an account with them. Lie No. 1

Put in a complaint to Westpac, who has an association and the response from Citibank on this occasion was, "They could not forward the funds between the 12th and 17th May 2015, as these days were national holidays in Thailand, therefore the funds would be paid into my account on the 18th May." Lie No.2. I made an additional complaint and am waiting on the response, will be interesting to see what it is, especially after I pointed out to Westpac that there were no National holidays during that period. So you're are right, sly and grubby B's.

[jeffreysearch]

Just a thought for people from Sydney /N.S.W.. i use a company called - XWING .. to send my money to Thailand .. you can find it on Facebook . they charge no fees to send and no fees at other end Bank in Thailand .. but the rate is lower .. but yesterday it was 25.90 bth / 1 AUD . They have offices in Sydney city centre. i find it is much better than using the Banks in Australia. Hope it helps some of you here . Im not sure if you can use it if you lived in other States or not ?

[Nignoy]

Any person receiving an Australian age pension living overseas , can expect to be pestered and threatened by centrelink with all types of weird requests, such as applying for age pension in the country you are residing in, we left queensland in march 2014 ,to be closer to elderly relatives in Austria ,Switzerland and spain, we have sofar had requests from centrelink to apply for age pensions in all 3 countries, failing to do this,would result in the cancellation of our age pension,we are now wondering what awaits us when we return to Australia in a couple of years time!!

[bazza40]

Bazza40

Rorting is rorting no matter where it occurs, with the only difference, in my mind, is that those residing in Oz get more, via the supplements, than those residing overseas, which I note you were kind enough to highlight in a previous post. And yes I have a harsh criticism of those who rort the system whilst in receipt of the Disability Pension either overseas or back home. Never made mention of the Aged Pension, so please do not twist things. Yes I am quite aware of the cost of living and why people have moved overseas but this is not the case in all situations, so please stop generalising. You also use the exclamation "DUH." Please, look at yourself before proffering such an expression. Maybe if the cap fits, hey?

And I was saying that those who receive the DP, under false pretences, are taking more out of Australia then those who are legitimately receiving that particular pension whilst living abroad. Has nothing to do with their not contributing to the Australian economy. No where, and I say no where, did I make any mention of this, however, you have mentioned economics, once in each of your posts. So please if you refer to something, make sure you realise who made the point that you want to criticise. Getting confused in your hast to decry my opinion?

You appear to have trouble understanding that I'm an Aussie, and have a knowledge of how things work in my country, yet you display a temerity, through your writing style, to suggest I'm in need of an education. You know nothing about me, yet you have the gall to assume that I have no knowledge of the subject we are discussing. So please, get off the assumer's conga line and rather than adopting your current approach, just ask, don't attempt to educate someone unless you are certain that their knowledge is not as yours.

You appear to be an intelligent person, so why are you having trouble comprehending what has been written. As I said, which again you obviously did not read, Disability Pension, never mentioned the Aged Pension. I am au fait with the requirements for the aged pension and, as you state, they are the rules applied by Centrelink. Rules, do you understand what that means? So are you suggesting that none should apply and people should be entitled to the Aged Pension without proving their eligibility. Are you from the entitlement brigade? People have to understand that regulations are put in place for a reason, not to create, as you put it, a prison sentence, hence you question re Oz being a penal colony. If people have trouble accepting the rules in place, then tough, abide by them if they want that pension, if they're entitled to it. Despite the rules applied re obtaining the Aged Pension, it too is capable of being rorted.

Many wealthy people, not all, in one way or another, have concealed their assets in order to, at least, receive a part pension, the reason, to obtain a Seniors Health Card and the benefits attached to it? And this is a proven fact. Sure the topic is about living it up on the pension but when I initially responded, it was to an apparent unfortunate Aussie on the DP and I made sure that he was aware that I was not accusing him of rorting. I also included in my post that this occurs, not only in Australia but overseas. So if you are so knowledgeable of the social Service System in Australia, are you going to tell me that the rules are so archaic that they are penalising all in the system or just a few who have trouble in accepting any type of governance.

Si Thea 01

It's possible to argue the age pension should be universally available irrespective of assets and income. It is in some other countries; however, it's not sustainable as the Greeks are busy proving.

Yes, you have a valid point re wealthy retirees. Someone living in a $5 million house and drawing a full or part pension is operating within the rules; however, that just shows how spineless the pollies are in removing such distortions.

I certainly don't regard myself as part of the entitlement brigade. I've worked hard all my life, paid huge amounts of tax. I would have been delighted to retire on my SMSF alone. As I've said in a previous post, that was thwarted by the incompetence of ASIC and other public servants who trashed the life savings of thousands of retirees before and during the GFC. Now the same public servants are saying pensions are unsustainable in the long term. They obviously don't have the word hypocrisy in their lexicon.

I don't have a problem with applying for a pension and following the rules for eligibility - in Australia. Yes, I think the rules are archaic as they apply to pensioners living overseas, and if you think otherwise, I'd like you to explain the usefulness of these rules apart from the doubtful benefit of supporting public service employment. Perhaps it goes to Emerson's assertion about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds.

Incidentally, you don't happen to be ex public service, do you?

[willyumiii]

I didnt think you could get the pension outside australia.

I nave friends from OZ receiving their pensions here in Thailand.

[willyumiii]

your $s are they USD?

[willyumiii]

Prices, I assume quoted in Aussie Dollars (25.52 Baht), seem very low indeed.

If so, then even a better deal if you have USD?

[willyumiii]

I do not want to hijack your thread, it is a good one.

As an American, I am interested in hearing from Americans with experience lining in VN.

My pension from the US is a good one ( I even get additional money for my dependent child and wife )

What is the attitude of the VN people toward Americans these days?

What is the exchange rate for currencies now?

Thailand is getting less attractive, but I love SE Asia.....is VN the best option for an American?

[8OA8]

Interesting subject, however I do wonder about the living in a 4 story house at the later years of life. I'm assuming this is a shophouse type of building, where your going to have to use the steep stairs for everyday living. I saw those in Malaysia but they had internal elevators

[Si Thea01]

Bazza40

Rorting is rorting no matter where it occurs, with the only difference, in my mind, is that those residing in Oz get more, via the supplements, than those residing overseas, which I note you were kind enough to highlight in a previous post. And yes I have a harsh criticism of those who rort the system whilst in receipt of the Disability Pension either overseas or back home. Never made mention of the Aged Pension, so please do not twist things. Yes I am quite aware of the cost of living and why people have moved overseas but this is not the case in all situations, so please stop generalising. You also use the exclamation "DUH." Please, look at yourself before proffering such an expression. Maybe if the cap fits, hey?

And I was saying that those who receive the DP, under false pretences, are taking more out of Australia then those who are legitimately receiving that particular pension whilst living abroad. Has nothing to do with their not contributing to the Australian economy. No where, and I say no where, did I make any mention of this, however, you have mentioned economics, once in each of your posts. So please if you refer to something, make sure you realise who made the point that you want to criticise. Getting confused in your hast to decry my opinion?

You appear to have trouble understanding that I'm an Aussie, and have a knowledge of how things work in my country, yet you display a temerity, through your writing style, to suggest I'm in need of an education. You know nothing about me, yet you have the gall to assume that I have no knowledge of the subject we are discussing. So please, get off the assumer's conga line and rather than adopting your current approach, just ask, don't attempt to educate someone unless you are certain that their knowledge is not as yours.

You appear to be an intelligent person, so why are you having trouble comprehending what has been written. As I said, which again you obviously did not read, Disability Pension, never mentioned the Aged Pension. I am au fait with the requirements for the aged pension and, as you state, they are the rules applied by Centrelink. Rules, do you understand what that means? So are you suggesting that none should apply and people should be entitled to the Aged Pension without proving their eligibility. Are you from the entitlement brigade? People have to understand that regulations are put in place for a reason, not to create, as you put it, a prison sentence, hence you question re Oz being a penal colony. If people have trouble accepting the rules in place, then tough, abide by them if they want that pension, if they're entitled to it. Despite the rules applied re obtaining the Aged Pension, it too is capable of being rorted.

Many wealthy people, not all, in one way or another, have concealed their assets in order to, at least, receive a part pension, the reason, to obtain a Seniors Health Card and the benefits attached to it? And this is a proven fact. Sure the topic is about living it up on the pension but when I initially responded, it was to an apparent unfortunate Aussie on the DP and I made sure that he was aware that I was not accusing him of rorting. I also included in my post that this occurs, not only in Australia but overseas. So if you are so knowledgeable of the social Service System in Australia, are you going to tell me that the rules are so archaic that they are penalising all in the system or just a few who have trouble in accepting any type of governance.

Si Thea 01

It's possible to argue the age pension should be universally available irrespective of assets and income. It is in some other countries; however, it's not sustainable as the Greeks are busy proving.

Yes, you have a valid point re wealthy retirees. Someone living in a $5 million house and drawing a full or part pension is operating within the rules; however, that just shows how spineless the pollies are in removing such distortions.

I certainly don't regard myself as part of the entitlement brigade. I've worked hard all my life, paid huge amounts of tax. I would have been delighted to retire on my SMSF alone. As I've said in a previous post, that was thwarted by the incompetence of ASIC and other public servants who trashed the life savings of thousands of retirees before and during the GFC. Now the same public servants are saying pensions are unsustainable in the long term. They obviously don't have the word hypocrisy in their lexicon.

I don't have a problem with applying for a pension and following the rules for eligibility - in Australia. Yes, I think the rules are archaic as they apply to pensioners living overseas, and if you think otherwise, I'd like you to explain the usefulness of these rules apart from the doubtful benefit of supporting public service employment. Perhaps it goes to Emerson's assertion about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds.

Incidentally, you don't happen to be ex public service, do you?

Bazza 40.

I agree with a lot that you say now but I don't think the laws for those living overseas are archaic. As you would know we are having problems sustaining all pensions owing to others wanting their entitlements, I won't elaborate as I think you would know, and I am not suggesting you. I have no problem with anyone obtaining a part pension, as long as it's legitimate.

But I get very dirty on some Aussies and certain nationalities, two or three, I won't mention them, who are the ones I am referring to coming to Oz, doing nothing all their bloody lives, then get a pension and go back home and live a very comfortable life, all take, take, take, and the only contribution being what they have to pay n GST. Even then, some devised a way to avoid that.. Then there are the others who over the years of being engaged in nefarious activities, sending huge amounts of money back, home, then get the pension on top. All concealed. These why I have no problems with the current rules and proposed changes.

I am an ex copper, so yes a public servant but over the years I had dealings with many of those types that I mentioned, in particular when fraud was detected. You would not believe the stories I could tell you about these cretins. Liars, cheats and thieves, and how they created a whole new business in Oz with their fraudulent activities.

[bazza40]

Si Thea 01

It's possible to argue the age pension should be universally available irrespective of assets and income. It is in some other countries; however, it's not sustainable as the Greeks are busy proving.

Yes, you have a valid point re wealthy retirees. Someone living in a $5 million house and drawing a full or part pension is operating within the rules; however, that just shows how spineless the pollies are in removing such distortions.

I certainly don't regard myself as part of the entitlement brigade. I've worked hard all my life, paid huge amounts of tax. I would have been delighted to retire on my SMSF alone. As I've said in a previous post, that was thwarted by the incompetence of ASIC and other public servants who trashed the life savings of thousands of retirees before and during the GFC. Now the same public servants are saying pensions are unsustainable in the long term. They obviously don't have the word hypocrisy in their lexicon.

I don't have a problem with applying for a pension and following the rules for eligibility - in Australia. Yes, I think the rules are archaic as they apply to pensioners living overseas, and if you think otherwise, I'd like you to explain the usefulness of these rules apart from the doubtful benefit of supporting public service employment. Perhaps it goes to Emerson's assertion about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds.

Incidentally, you don't happen to be ex public service, do you?

Bazza 40.

I agree with a lot that you say now but I don't think the laws for those living overseas are archaic. As you would know we are having problems sustaining all pensions owing to others wanting their entitlements, I won't elaborate as I think you would know, and I am not suggesting you. I have no problem with anyone obtaining a part pension, as long as it's legitimate.

But I get very dirty on some Aussies and certain nationalities, two or three, I won't mention them, who are the ones I am referring to coming to Oz, doing nothing all their bloody lives, then get a pension and go back home and live a very comfortable life, all take, take, take, and the only contribution being what they have to pay n GST. Even then, some devised a way to avoid that.. Then there are the others who over the years of being engaged in nefarious activities, sending huge amounts of money back, home, then get the pension on top. All concealed. These why I have no problems with the current rules and proposed changes.

I am an ex copper, so yes a public servant but over the years I had dealings with many of those types that I mentioned, in particular when fraud was detected. You would not believe the stories I could tell you about these cretins. Liars, cheats and thieves, and how they created a whole new business in Oz with their fraudulent activities.

OK, so we both understand where we are coming from. I agree there are certain nationalities up to their eyeballs in fraud, drugs and other crimes, but of course in this PC world we are not allowed to nominate them - that's racial discrimination.

As far as the public service aspect goes, I have nothing but admiration for police, paramedics, nurses etc. They have the toughest jobs in Australia. It's the policy-setting &lt;deleted&gt; in state and federal spheres I can't stand. Plus their well-honed strategies for avoiding scrutiny and shutting down public comment.

This joke was told to me by a very senior public servant:

Q. Why do public servants never look out the window in the morning?

A. Because then they'd have nothing to do in the afternoon.

[jeffreysearch]

Just curious about something i read here ... i was speaking to person at Centrelink about OA Pension in Australia.. and if you live O`seas.. she said to me .. you have to return and live in Australia for 5 yrs ??? before you can recieve it ( OAP),, leading up to retirement age .. etc. it seems some advice on here said it is only 2 yrs wait .. but she said it has changed now ?? so just to mention maybe people here still think of the old policy from previous years .... any thoughts here ....

[norbra]

In the 2nd half of 2013 I returned to Aus after being OS for 4 years,Centrelink put me in the catagory of "returning resident" after I provided details of family residing in Aus.

I was then granted OAP from day 1. I have since enquired about portability and was advised that I must remain in country for a period of 2 years to qualify but if I left for any reason the 2 year requirement would start again on my return.I also asked Centrelink to confirm my case in writing which they would not do so I wrote to my local federal member for assistance with this,no written confirmation would be provided but I was advised that my requests were now logged on my Centrelink file confirming that I had been verbally advised that portabilty of OAP would apply following completion of the 2 year requirement