Austere brand of Islam on rise in Europe, stirring concerns

[webfact]

Austere brand of Islam on rise in Europe, stirring concerns
By ELAINE GANLEY

PARIS (AP) — Its imams preach austere piety, its tenets demand strict separation of sexes — and some of its most radical adherents are heeding the call of jihad. Salafism, an Islamic movement based on a literal reading of the Quran, is on the rise in France, Germany and Britain, security officials say, with Salafis sharply increasing their influence in mosques and on the streets.

The trend worries European authorities, who see Salafism as one of the inspirational forces for young Europeans heading to Syria or Iraq to do battle for the Islamic State group. Experts, however, point out that the vast majority of Salafis are peace-loving.

In Germany, there are currently about 7,000 Salafis in the country — nearly double the 3,800 estimated four years ago, the Interior Ministry said last month. About 100 French mosques are now controlled by Salafis, a small number compared to the more than 2,000 Muslim houses of worship, but more than double the number four years ago, a senior security official told The Associated Press. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. France does not do head-counts by religious practices or origins.

In Britain the numbers are on the rise, too. Seven percent of Britain's 1,740 mosques are run by Salafis, according to Mehmood Naqshbandi, an expert on Britain's Muslims and counter-extremism adviser to the British government who keeps a database of the various currents of Islam in Britain. He says those numbers are steadily growing, especially among young people — and that a quarter to half of British Muslims under 30 "accept some parts or all of the Salafi theology."

Today, the Internet is largely seen as the main route for youth to quickly radicalize. But radicalization can be cultivated in places where Muslims socialize, like mosques. And there, said the French security official, it is Salafis who are considered the principle purveyors of radical ideology.

Experts say Salafis in France have been waging a campaign of stealth to take over mosques. First they develop a following, then begin criticizing the imam in order to win control over the faithful, security officials and moderate Muslims say. Youth and converts to Islam are considered the most vulnerable to such messages.

Experts of Islam divide Salafis into three groups: the traditional brand of "quietists" who eschew politics; those who become politicized; and the hardcore worshippers who follow the call of jihad.

Today, Salafism has become a buzzword for danger. In Germany, authorities consider all Salafis as extremists, and security officials in Europe believe there is a direct line from the peaceful version to the version that embraces jihad — and risks tempting the fragile into fanaticism.

"The bridge is short," said Alain Rodier, a former intelligence officer who is now a terrorism specialist.

Salafism, in principle, should not be a cause for concern, said Naqshbandi, the British expert. But, he said, the very simplicity of its message means anyone can warp it to his own ends.

"People who want to pursue militant political Islam have a set of tools available ... which they can twist to argue their case," Naqshbandi said. He called the Islamic State group, which champions Salafism, the prime example of how the theology can be abused.

Those who practice Salafism — which comes from the word "salafs," or ancestors — seek to emulate the Islam of the prophet Muhammad and his early followers, which they consider the purest form of the religion. Salafis, who are Sunni Muslims, are easily identifiable. Men wear beards and robes above the ankle and women often cover their faces.

A mosque outside Lyon won an unusual case last week against a Salafi worshipper taken to court after months of tension. Faouzi Saidi, 51, was convicted of troubling public order inside a house of worship and fined. He admitted to criticizing the imam for what he claimed were theological lapses, but claimed he only once held "parallel prayers" in a corner with a group of followers.

The case was thought to be the first in France by Muslims against a Muslim invoking a 1905 law to guarantee secularism — used by the government to pass bans on headscarves and face-covering veils.

France has worked to put a safety ring around Islam since deadly January terror attacks in Paris, seeking to stifle the spread of extremism in areas considered fertile terrain. Authorities have notably started taking down Internet sites that glorify terrorism and are pressing ahead with a training program to instill imams with French values.

Critics say police often infringe upon the freedom of worship in their mission to monitor Salafi extremists. "It would be naive to think there is never a risk," said Samir Amghar, a specialist on Salafism. But to consider that every sign of ultraconservative Islam presents a danger "risks stigmatizing a large majority of Muslims."

And some Salafis say that the common image of their lives as being one of rigid worship — with no enjoyment — is a myth.

Olivier Corel, a Salafi who reportedly figured in the religious life of Mohammed Merah — who killed three children, a rabbi and three paratroopers in 2012 — went skiing with his wife in the Pyrenees in January.

"We have fun. We have fun. We have fun," his wife told the AP by telephone, before hanging up.

Rachid Abou Houdeyfa, a Salafi imam in the western French city of Brest known for his You Tube sermons of do's and don'ts, created one video showing himself and a buddy in a pleasure boat and titled it "Can One Have Fun?"

"We're going swimming," he said before diving into the water.
___

David Rising in Berlin and Sylvia Hui in London contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-22

[ezzra]

When the heads of the European countries allowed Muslim people in to become full citizens,

they saw working hands, lots and lots of working hands who doesn't mined to work hard

like the Europeans are, little they knew that what they did, will turn around in 20-30 years

to bite them on the ass, big time,

Muslims, as a whole do not assimilate or integrates, they keep to themselves owing to

religious beliefs and largely as to not lose their Identities, a Muslim person can be your

best neighbor and friend, but one day he will turn on you if he was so told by his Mullah

Imam or preacher,,,,

Europe didn't want the Jews, and did everything in their power to persecute, imprison,

liquidate and exile them back in the 40' now the got the Muslim instead, and they're

there to stay... good luck to you Europe....

Edited June 22, 2015 by ezzra

[canuckamuck]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

[alant]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

Agreed, the groups that refuse to accept the dangers all around them may well find themselves the first to be slaughtered in the name of Allah.

[clockman]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

[NeverSure]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

It's too late. That horse is already out of the barn. The liberals in Europe with their PC notions and inclusiveness have already destroyed the area and it's just a matter of time now. Either the pro-inclusiveness people can't see it or they actually want it. It's rushing to the cliff and it will be interesting to see the answer.

[jpp2bkk]

If the governments do not change their stance toward islam in Europe, I do no give 10 years before seeing the first clashes.

[FangFerang]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

It's too late. That horse is already out of the barn. The liberals in Europe with their PC notions and inclusiveness have already destroyed the area and it's just a matter of time now. Either the pro-inclusiveness people can't see it or they actually want it. It's rushing to the cliff and it will be interesting to see the answer.

"The liberals in Europe with their PC notions" -- oh, just what we need. Another neo-conservative who thinks liberal is the same as stupid. Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, and even Hancock were liberals. Bush the lesser was a mass murderer, and Chaney was a thief. Who you gonna call, Ghostbusters?

[simple1]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

Pew Research, who many refer to on this forum, indicates total European Muslim population by 2050 will be around 10%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/15/europe-projected-to-retain-its-christian-majority-but-religious-minorities-will-grow/

[HatYai2]

Religion!

Edited June 22, 2015 by HatYai2

[Scott]

A post which contravenes the rules has been removed.

[bangon04]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

and when the Islamic fever has managed to return Europe to the middle ages , the vast majority of peaceful muslims will have to become economic migrants to some other part of the world where they can still maintain their lifestyles. In the meantime the turkeys will keep voting for thanksgiving..... Imagine the logic of women voting for strict Islamic / sharia law....

[NeverSure]

"The liberals in Europe with their PC notions" -- oh, just what we need. Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, and even Hancock were liberals.

You mean those same liberals who had negro slaves and brought us the Bill of Rights including the Second Amendment, free speech, limited government, kicked the King of England's ass as so on? Those PC liberals who came to America to escape Europe?

[razer]

Experts, however, point out that the vast majority of Salafis are peace-loving.

Experts, however, point out that the vast majority of Germans were peace-loving. (During the rise of Nazism)

Experts of Islam divide Salafis into three groups: the traditional brand of "quietists" who eschew politics; those who become politicized; and the hardcore worshippers who follow the call of jihad.

Experts of Nazism divide Nazis into three groups: the traditional brand of "quietists" who eschew politics; those who become politicized; and the hardcore Nazis who follow the call of the Nazi Party.

The take-away - Inform the public …. Teach history as something real, not some abstract from the past … Be proactive or suffer the consequences.

[Tarteso]

They forgot to include Spain, which is place of residence and training of Islamic extremists, where many people have died because of Islamic terrorism

[12DrinkMore]

If the governments do not change their stance toward islam in Europe, I do no give 10 years before seeing the first clashes.

You seem to have missed the news over the last ten years.

[micmichd]

It's a well-known phenomenon that people labelled as deviant tend to behave according to this label.

If Germany labels all Salafists as extremists, Germany may breed terrorism in a once quite peaceful community.

The OP demonstrates quite clearly how far this process has already gone: Now some Salafists feel like they have to defend themselves by showing fun in public.

Edited June 22, 2015 by micmichd

[simple1]

Muslims aim is total control. And they will do this merely by having more children! Europe beware.

Pew Research, who many refer to on this forum, indicates total European Muslim population by 2050 will be around 10%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/15/europe-projected-to-retain-its-christian-majority-but-religious-minorities-will-grow/

So what?

BTW you're using Indian and Arabic numbers and algebra for your statistics.

The URL provided addresses the false assertion of Muslim population growth in Europe, an argument often used by those on the far right.

[micmichd]

Experts, however, point out that the vast majority of Salafis are peace-loving.

Experts, however, point out that the vast majority of Germans were peace-loving. (During the rise of Nazism)

Experts of Islam divide Salafis into three groups: the traditional brand of "quietists" who eschew politics; those who become politicized; and the hardcore worshippers who follow the call of jihad.

Experts of Nazism divide Nazis into three groups: the traditional brand of "quietists" who eschew politics; those who become politicized; and the hardcore Nazis who follow the call of the Nazi Party.

The take-away - Inform the public . Teach history as something real, not some abstract from the past Be proactive or suffer the consequences.

Guess the vast majority of Germans in the 1930ies were paranoid about their economic situation at first. You can't eschew economy, and paranoia may be contagious.

[elgordo38]

When the heads of the European countries allowed Muslim people in to become full citizens,

they saw working hands, lots and lots of working hands who doesn't mined to work hard

like the Europeans are, little they knew that what they did, will turn around in 20-30 years

to bite them on the ass, big time,

Muslims, as a whole do not assimilate or integrates, they keep to themselves owing to

religious beliefs and largely as to not lose their Identities, a Muslim person can be your

best neighbor and friend, but one day he will turn on you if he was so told by his Mullah

Imam or preacher,,,,

Europe didn't want the Jews, and did everything in their power to persecute, imprison,

liquidate and exile them back in the 40' now the got the Muslim instead, and they're

there to stay... good luck to you Europe....

Governments are controlled by big business. These people were considered as a pool of people who would toil in the best interests of big business and undercut wages of existing workers much the same as the Mexican horde is now doing in the USA and the same applies to all the people coming by boat to the shores of Italy Greece Thailand. They are a mass of people looking to improve their lives at any cost. This dovetails with big business as they are out to hire labor at the cheapest price possible to make their cheap goods. Unfortunately for big business they must fill the gap with human bodies till the next generation of robots are developed(this could be sooner than we all think) who will work for nothing but an electrical fix from time to time. At this time humanity will be kicked to the curb of obsolescence. Maybe like the movie Soylent Green our end purpose is yet to be defined.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Its imams preach austere piety ...' So Cameron and Osborn are closet imams.

[wwest5829]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

Agreed, the groups that refuse to accept the dangers all around them may well find themselves the first to be slaughtered in the name of Allah.

And yet, do we follow the path of those denouncing, for example, the Jews as controlling international finance and bringing our nation to its knees, sans of the Nazis leading up to WW II? No, not ignoring but neither falling under those who would persecute groups.

[Steely Dan]

Radicalization is a process that is progressive. For every terrorist there are many who sympathize with their aims and actions. This comes from cultural absorption in non assimilating ghettos, from listening to radical speakers down the local mosque or from certain news and information outlets online.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-myth-of-muslim-radicalization.html

[micmichd]

Radicalization is usually going on on both sides in a conflict, Neonazis also get radicalized.

Sympathy with aims is not the same as sympathy with actions.

It is common strategy of those who fight "terrorism" to urge everyone to take a stand: for us or against us?

This leaves no room for people that might support some of the aims but not the actions. Those get easily counted (in fact, mistitled) as "terrorists" themselves, with all consequences.

This kind of generalization can easily end up in a Civil War.

[Robby nz]

It's a well-known phenomenon that people labelled as deviant tend to behave according to this label.

If Germany labels all Salafists as extremists, Germany may breed terrorism in a once quite peaceful community.

The OP demonstrates quite clearly how far this process has already gone: Now some Salafists feel like they have to defend themselves by showing fun in public.

Was wondering how the women would get on with 'having fun' dressed as they are required to ? Shouldn't think it would be that much fun trying to swim, but I suppose they would be easy to find in the snow. Fun of course may only be for men.

[konying]

Nothing to worry about. Its a religion of peace and harmony.

Good luck Europe, keep accepting more and more

PS, I do hope, they do not start demanding for EU to cut up some land for them, because they live there

Edited June 22, 2015 by konying

[micmichd]

Would it surprise you that some Western (Christian) women occasionally have fun in Moslem communities and don't mind chadors at all?

Edited June 22, 2015 by micmichd

[Naam]

Would it surprise you that some Western (Christian) women occasionally have fun in Moslem communities and don't mind schadors at all?

no it wouldn't. and whenever we visit Saudi Arabia my non-Muslim wife finds it quite normal to wear in public an abaya over her jeans and blouse. as far as her having occasional fun in Muslim communities i'm not sure. i will ask her and report back

for the record: chadors exist only in Iran.

[Naam]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

Agreed, the groups that refuse to accept the dangers all around them may well find themselves the first to be slaughtered in the name of Allah.

i have to admit that Thaivisa provides a wealth of information and prophecies as far as Islam is concerned. reading some (not all) comments the thought crosses my mind "the LORD works in miraculous ways! a few years ago some of the posters thought Islam is an oriental dish with the main ingredient mutton, lamb and millet. but today they can compete with learned Muslim scholars."

[Ghostnigel]

But the progressives (who would be the first to be crushed under Islamic rule) will defend the religion of peace to the very end. Blinded by their own idealism.

Agreed, the groups that refuse to accept the dangers all around them may well find themselves the first to be slaughtered in the name of Allah.

We (the plebs on the street) could see it coming, so why didn't the powers that brought them all here see it coming too. There will be a lot lot more to follow, most with hatred towards us before they even get to Europe...God help everyone left there, they're gonna need it.