Panic About Nothing?

[zeusbheld]

I will believe it when I see it (hear it here). We won't really know for sure until after Oct 1 and after people with 3 30 days after Oct 1 go to Penang and try to get a tourist visa. Then, we will see for sure. With the fickleness of this new change, how could anyone confidently plan their lives based on the comments of this one official?

this is thailand; i'm not sure i'll believe it even AFTER i see it.

regardless of what official says what, and regardless of whether they issue back to back visas in october, it's still a wait-and-see period.

do let's keep in mind that there's a tug-of-war going on in thai politics and this policy is just a minor sidebar, and thus very much subject to change at any given time.

[Thaiquila]

Yes, indeed. Exactly. To draw any final conclusions about the real life enforcement of any of this is premature. But for now, they sound quite serious.

[maxx]

doesn't matter what law they came out, doesn't matter if they try to get rid of 30day runner or not, i will obey their law, my only question is why not issue 3entry, why stop that, i mean if i can't 3 i'll settle for 1, i pitty for Penang consualted that loose out on these entry, surely if i cannot get 3 entry and only 1entry, why would i have to go to Penang, i can go to Singapore, KL, Laos or even combodia they all issue single, no question ask.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

doesn't matter what law they came out, doesn't matter if they try to get rid of 30day runner or not, i will obey their law, my only question is why not issue 3entry, why stop that, i mean if i can't 3 i'll settle for 1, i pitty for Penang consualted that loose out on these entry, surely if i cannot get 3 entry and only 1entry, why would i have to go to Penang, i can go to Singapore, KL, Laos or even combodia they all issue single, no question ask.

You will obey Thai law???? Did you know Prostitution is against the law in thailand? and lots of other things too.

Its more realistic to be in line with what they see fit to enforce.

[cclub75]

A message on the website of Stickman.

www.stickmanbangkok.com

UPDATE ON NEW VISA RULES - an email from a reader, 13 September.

I went to Department Of Immigration on Soi Suan Plu to ask some questions and this is what I got:

1.) There are some changes for perpetual tourist. This is the new routine:

a.) Maximum of three 30 day stamps in a period of 90 days. Then you have to wait another 90 days before you can get a new stamp. So you can make 3 visa runs in a row.

b.) After you've made 3 visa runs in a row, you need to travel to foreign country and apply at a Thai embassy for 60 day visa. The rule is 3 30 day stamps in 90 days. The new rules do not prevent you from re-entering with a 60 day visa which you can extend for 30 days at Immigration department in Soi Suan Plu.

c.) With the tourist visa you will clear 90 days, 60 day tourist visa and 30 day extension. You are free to go back to (a.) and repeat the process.

2.) What about my 5 years of consecutive visa stamps from Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia and Burma? They don't mean a thing. Don't worry about those. The new rules take effect Oct 1 2006 and they start counting stamps after Oct 1st 2006. All stamps and visas before Oct 1st 2006 are of no concern.

[chuckygobyebye]

The immigration rep (whose duties among other things include maintaining the "balcklist" of "undesirables") assured the small group of journos there that things aren't changing all that much. Basically, according to him and the interpol chap, the prime reason for the changes is because with the expemption stamp, immigration and other authorities are unable to do background checks easily against the blacklist (or further investigations with other countries), and thereby keep out known murderers, terrorists, fugitives, and what have you.

So once again, the purportedly omniscient immigrations computer isn't as all-knowing, all-seeing as we are often led to believe. Kinda makes one wonder why, if the powers-that-be can't perform something as simple as real-time checking of the names of entrants into Thailand against a blacklist, they bother with the stupid webcams to take every inbound/outbound traveler's mugshot.

From what I was given to understand, they want 24 hours to check you against the blacklist. Have a quick think about what you'd do if you were on the blacklist (change your name, passport, nationality) and you can see why this may take a while.

The blacklist is different from Persona Non Grata (there's actually a gray list as well) and the list apaprently isn't available electonically at border posts. However this is set to change.

To sum up from the meeting again:

You'll be able to do three visa runs after october 1st.

They count days, not entries.

What happens if you try to enter after your 90 days are up? The answer to that was, don't know but we'll think of something 90 days after 1 October.

The attitude of the official we met was that they don't want the visa runs to stop, but they do want to be able to screen people. He's the one who's actually implementing the changes so this is as "horse's mouth" as you're going to get.

While he reassured everyone that things will be very much 'business as usual' it does seem to rely on finding a consulate that will issue you a tourist visa -- I'd stay away from Vientiane and Phom Penh.

[maxx]

doesn't matter what law they came out, doesn't matter if they try to get rid of 30day runner or not, i will obey their law, my only question is why not issue 3entry, why stop that, i mean if i can't 3 i'll settle for 1, i pitty for Penang consualted that loose out on these entry, surely if i cannot get 3 entry and only 1entry, why would i have to go to Penang, i can go to Singapore, KL, Laos or even combodia they all issue single, no question ask.

You will obey Thai law???? Did you know Prostitution is against the law in thailand? and lots of other things too.

Its more realistic to be in line with what they see fit to enforce.

sure what part of my reply is against the law, i dont think i break any rule do you see any, when my tourist visa run out, i get out of the country and apply for another, doesn't matter if its a single or triple, i return to Thailand, what is so hard about that.

basicly they want to get rid of the 30days runner, if you can't afford to go to neighboor country and apply for a single tourist visa, why the heck you doing in Thailand to start out with, so what are you living on, it take only a few thousand baht to jump next door, apply and come back, if you can't even do that, you must be eating rice and fishsauce.

im not fond of the rule, but when it does come, just adapt to it, ride the wave.

[beammeup]

A message on the website of Stickman.

www.stickmanbangkok.com

UPDATE ON NEW VISA RULES - an email from a reader, 13 September.

I went to Department Of Immigration on Soi Suan Plu to ask some questions and this is what I got:

1.) There are some changes for perpetual tourist. This is the new routine:

a.) Maximum of three 30 day stamps in a period of 90 days. Then you have to wait another 90 days before you can get a new stamp. So you can make 3 visa runs in a row.

b.) After you've made 3 visa runs in a row, you need to travel to foreign country and apply at a Thai embassy for 60 day visa. The rule is 3 30 day stamps in 90 days. The new rules do not prevent you from re-entering with a 60 day visa which you can extend for 30 days at Immigration department in Soi Suan Plu.

c.) With the tourist visa you will clear 90 days, 60 day tourist visa and 30 day extension. You are free to go back to (a.) and repeat the process.

2.) What about my 5 years of consecutive visa stamps from Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia and Burma? They don't mean a thing. Don't worry about those. The new rules take effect Oct 1 2006 and they start counting stamps after Oct 1st 2006. All stamps and visas before Oct 1st 2006 are of no concern.

Thankyou cclub, this is exactly the answer I have been reading these posts for the last week for. Its what I suspected. I think most of us can live with these changes without too much hastle. I must admit that I am quite disapointed in the attitude of a lot of the posters here. A lot of generalizations, I'm OK so tough sh*t for everyone else etc... Very Uncool, I can see why The Thais are developing a dislike for the Falangs.

[britmaveric]

I think this was stated early on - this was a revenue issue only, use the freebie visa 3x and then grab a tourist visa, then repeat process.

[Nimzo]

Hi all,

abit confuse with all this thing..

i am Malaysian citizen and curently no need visa to enter Thailand.

I going to thailand every month and each trip last only 3-5 day.

does it affect me as the 3 entry?

thanks

[lopburi3]

The way it reads it would appear to effect you but I suspect changes will be made very quickly to exempt ASIAN member countries or some such provision made.

[Nimzo]

The way it reads it would appear to effect you but I suspect changes will be made very quickly to exempt ASIAN member countries or some such provision made.

as i not doing visa run,not stay 30/90 day thing...

i only enter thailand as tourist and at the most each trip only last 5 day..

somewhere i read,they going to restrict u to 3 entry in 90 day?or total stay should not exceed 90 day in 3 month time..

[ovenman]

The immigration rep (whose duties among other things include maintaining the "balcklist" of "undesirables") assured the small group of journos there that things aren't changing all that much. Basically, according to him and the interpol chap, the prime reason for the changes is because with the expemption stamp, immigration and other authorities are unable to do background checks easily against the blacklist (or further investigations with other countries), and thereby keep out known murderers, terrorists, fugitives, and what have you.

So once again, the purportedly omniscient immigrations computer isn't as all-knowing, all-seeing as we are often led to believe. Kinda makes one wonder why, if the powers-that-be can't perform something as simple as real-time checking of the names of entrants into Thailand against a blacklist, they bother with the stupid webcams to take every inbound/outbound traveler's mugshot.

From what I was given to understand, they want 24 hours to check you against the blacklist. Have a quick think about what you'd do if you were on the blacklist (change your name, passport, nationality) and you can see why this may take a while.

Sure, but if you took the course of action you suggest, I'm not sure how the authorities would find you on their blacklist, even if given a year to perform a search. I'm just surprised to learn that this information is not currently being used at all the border posts.

[FRK]

A strategy as simple as obtaining 1 (one) single entry 60 day tourist visa followed by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs, then repeat, was never out of the question.

Please explain your scheme for a 60-day visa following by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs. The new rule says 'no more than 90 days in Thailand every six months'. That sounds pretty clear to me.

[Thaiquila]

A strategy as simple as obtaining 1 (one) single entry 60 day tourist visa followed by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs, then repeat, was never out of the question.

Please explain your scheme for a 60-day visa following by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs. The new rule says 'no more than 90 days in Thailand every six months'. That sounds pretty clear to me.

The achilles heel of this plan is you don't know whether the consulates/embassies will issue you a tourist visa when you show up with a passport full of recent 30 day stamps. Maybe the first time, then how about the second and the third time? OK if you are travelling light and can easily leave when your time comes. Otherwise, obviously, try to get a proper visa if you can and sleep at least a little better ... for now anyway.

[FRK]

b.) After you've made 3 visa runs in a row, you need to travel to foreign country and apply at a Thai embassy for 60 day visa. The rule is 3 30 day stamps in 90 days. The new rules do not prevent you from re-entering with a 60 day visa which you can extend for 30 days at Immigration department in Soi Suan Plu.

c.) With the tourist visa you will clear 90 days, 60 day tourist visa and 30 day extension. You are free to go back to (a.) and repeat the process.

First of all, I think he means 2 visa runs in a row, not 3. The first visa plus 2 visa runs totals 90 days.

Second, the new rules refer to a maximum of 90 days in Thailand every six months. I don't see how it matters whether you start with a 30-day or 60-day visa. It's the total time that matters.

Ask a different clerk on Suan Plu and you'll probably get a different answer.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A strategy as simple as obtaining 1 (one) single entry 60 day tourist visa followed by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs, then repeat, was never out of the question.

Please explain your scheme for a 60-day visa following by an extension and 2 or 3 border runs. The new rule says 'no more than 90 days in Thailand every six months'. That sounds pretty clear to me.

No it would have to be the 2 or 3 waiver stamps followed by a 60 tourist with 30 day extension. This way when you repeat the cycle with more border run waiver stamps its now been 6 months and the first waiver stamp is now falling out of the 6 month window. Ideally I think it would look better to only have proper tourist visa's stamps with no waivers in your passport when it come to applying for more tourist visa's.

This is all predicated on consulates issuing tourist visa's to individuals who have been in the kingdom physically and appearing to be a serial tourist.

It has been noted the 90 days in 6 months applies to 90 days of waiver stamps. Not 90 days of physical presence. If you had a 2 or 3 entry tourist visa time then right away your are entiltled to 180 to 270 days in Thailand and the 90 days in 180 rule would be at odds.