mikiea Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Good post h90, I am not an expert in drugs, all I know is what I read about them, and it seems to me that from what the OP is saying, would not have happened if it was not for the dealers. All these young folk dying in clubs, at parties etc, this would not be happening in most cases if it was not for the dealers. I don't just mean in Thailand, in any country. IMO, get rid of the dealers and about 90% of the drug problem will cease to exist. your "IMO" suks rat butt . there will always be weak people . their choice of drug will vary ,,,,education , family , jobs , these three hold the key to the weak peeps drug problem . but even that is not enough at times . ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Good post h90, I am not an expert in drugs, all I know is what I read about them, and it seems to me that from what the OP is saying, would not have happened if it was not for the dealers. All these young folk dying in clubs, at parties etc, this would not be happening in most cases if it was not for the dealers. I don't just mean in Thailand, in any country. IMO, get rid of the dealers and about 90% of the drug problem will cease to exist. I see the only solution in taking the money out of it...catching all the deal and put them in jail just didn't work. But I think some drug problem will continue just a lower level of it. Of course education, honest education would be helpful. When I was in school they teach us that smoking, drinking, heroin, marihuana is all the same evil......You see your parents drinking and smoking but being healthy and successful so you don't believe the rest of the story. What they did well in a different school I went. They invited former addicts to speak (free and without the teacher in the classroom). They just told the true......Told about the parties, good feeling, fun, loosing the job, partner, teeth going into jail, having photos were they age in 5 years like it is 30 years, telling how hard it was to come away from it. They weren't much older than us, ....that really had an impression on me, how everything starts with some fun and without problems and how it ends.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Junkies and alcoholics need to 'Hit Bottom' before they start looking for help. Some never hit bottom, they simply end up in prison or and early death. If the kid doesn't want treatment, and he's convicted of a crime and jailed, that may end up being the catalyst for him to 'hit bottom'. Or not. No one can control another person's life, especially if that person is a meth addict. I've know a few 'tweekers' in my life. Meth addiction in totally FUBARed. But the only person who can take control of the addiction is the addict. What can parents and friends do? Withhold money. Don't become co-dependent. Tough-love. Truth. Learn the realities about Meth addiction (plenty of sources online) Learn about Narcotics Anonymous, find meetings, and recommend that their son attends once he hit's bottom. Formal treatment options are OK for taking care of withdrawal symptoms, but long term the kid will need a support group like NA.The kid will live his life. It may end in tragedy, or he may wake up one day being 'sick and tired of being sick and tired', admit he has a problem, and seek out a group like NA. But it ain't about you OP. It ain't about Mom and Dad. The kid is the only one who can turn his life around. You can only point the way. Edited July 7, 2015 by connda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rethaier Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Above all, they must not support him in anyway except possibly food and shelter. Absolutely give him no money. And if he continues, use tough love and kick him out of the dwelling. His continued use in and around the house could cause more grief than anyone needs. I have a neighbor who asked his uncle to take drive him to Mai Sai. The uncle agreed and took his daughter for the ride. They were stopped and a bag of Ya Ba was found in the trunk. The uncle and his daughter swear they did not know the nephew had put it there but all 3 are now languishing in Chiang Rai jail and have been for 9 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Good post h90, I am not an expert in drugs, all I know is what I read about them, and it seems to me that from what the OP is saying, would not have happened if it was not for the dealers. All these young folk dying in clubs, at parties etc, this would not be happening in most cases if it was not for the dealers. I don't just mean in Thailand, in any country. IMO, get rid of the dealers and about 90% of the drug problem will cease to exist. your "IMO" suks rat butt . there will always be weak people . their choice of drug will vary ,,,,education , family , jobs , these three hold the key to the weak peeps drug problem . but even that is not enough at times . ......... Can you put together your first five words properly so I can understand them. I thought this was an English speaking forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Good post h90, I am not an expert in drugs, all I know is what I read about them, and it seems to me that from what the OP is saying, would not have happened if it was not for the dealers. All these young folk dying in clubs, at parties etc, this would not be happening in most cases if it was not for the dealers. I don't just mean in Thailand, in any country. IMO, get rid of the dealers and about 90% of the drug problem will cease to exist. I see the only solution in taking the money out of it...catching all the deal and put them in jail just didn't work. But I think some drug problem will continue just a lower level of it. Of course education, honest education would be helpful. When I was in school they teach us that smoking, drinking, heroin, marihuana is all the same evil......You see your parents drinking and smoking but being healthy and successful so you don't believe the rest of the story. What they did well in a different school I went. They invited former addicts to speak (free and without the teacher in the classroom). They just told the true......Told about the parties, good feeling, fun, loosing the job, partner, teeth going into jail, having photos were they age in 5 years like it is 30 years, telling how hard it was to come away from it. They weren't much older than us, ....that really had an impression on me, how everything starts with some fun and without problems and how it ends.... Yes, you talk a lot of sense H90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 P.S. Be mindful of the fact that when you take matters into your own hands and maybe find a way through forceful detainment (as you spoke of earlier) you may be doing more harm than good. It may cause him to build up a big resentment against the people who contrived it and place him a position that he will no longer ever trust them....thus cutting off whatever chance you had of helping him in the future. That's one the dilemmas his family is facing: A. they don't want him going back to yabaa, which has already cost him his job... B. they don't want him to end up getting arrested by the police and going to jail with a criminal record. C. and they fear if they don't do something now, A or B are going to be the result. Right now, about two weeks after being off the drug, from what they tell me, he isn't admitting that he has a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks to all who have posted with comments above... I want to just say... for those talking about don't get involved or stay clear of this.... I'm not directly involved with this Thai young man... and it's not my place to be, and don't intend to be. But I know his family, and they're involved whether they like it or not... It's his parents and siblings, and they're wrestling with how best to deal with the situation. FWIW, this guy wasn't a bad kid... He'd lived with his Thai family for years, and never shown any problem until, in the last couple years, he ended up living alone because of a job change. He was working as a government school teacher, and had always been very responsible and professional -- until recent months. BTW, I have no indication he was dealing, just using, AFA the family can tell. The family isn't going to "walk away" from their son/sibling. But the question is, how do they best deal with him under the current circumstances. Edited July 7, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirtless Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yabba is not physically addictive like opiates , he is a weak person who will always have addiction he must want to give it up on his own there is no cold turkey , You cannot help him if he still wants it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nithisa78 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It is good to post have some of the comments on TV. However, this is a serious issue and it can't be resolved on TV. Its complicated and needs professionals, with experience. Some years ago I encountered a person with very self-distructive behavior. Our home is also in Fla. If it happened here, you could speak with the local authorities and have the person Baker acted. It isn't pretty doing that here either. Though if an interested party participates it can soften the blow. This isn't the appropriate place to give a psychology run down. Best of luck. God's speed, not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zackattack Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 From a professional ex user not of yabba but of every other kind of drug known to man, you will only stop when you want too stop or you pass away from the drug use that's a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I know a Thai girl who was hooked on yabaa. A similar situation, she did not want to stop. Her father took her to a Buddhist monastery in the North of Thailand. They kept her several months before she returned home. It has been two years now, she is going to college and doing well. Have her parents go to your local monastery and ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can a monastery "keep" someone??? Did the monks know/understand why the girl had been brought there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammygood Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 a stint of a few months in jail might sober him up, unless the dealers & the same as the prison guards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can a monastery "keep" someone??? Did the monks know/understand why the girl had been brought there? Apparently, this monastery is set up to deal with drug addiction--unfortunately, the Thai family has moved to Australia and I have lost contact with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadychris Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Any advice...welcome... I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it. I don't know about being hooked on yabba (Ketamine?) but it is an antisocial drug, unlike coke or other amphetamines, so the liklihood is the social group he is using it with and what they get up to when they dabble is part of the addiction. Removing that is hard as I mentioned earlier, change of scenery is the best way to remove that element. Then you have to deal with the physical addiction itself. Every hour you spend high on this stuff equals 3-4 hours of horrible hangover/ withdrawal, if he's using it every day then I have no idea....... If I was in your shoes and this person was a friend of mine (example - full disclaimer), I would get out of town immediately to some remote beach location away from it all. I would get him drunk and chasing tail by night and out getting daylight exercise by day while eating normally. Physical exertion and nutrition are fundamental to eliminating the residual chemicals however motivation is a real stumbling block and that is why you need a wingman/ friend. If the waking hours were too difficult there are medications that can help with cold turkey. You can start to understand why hospitals over prescribe pills alone because they have to manage a large group of cases in a confined space and they just don't have the wherewithal to attend personally. Your main objective is to get him hooked on something else that is acceptable and remove his desire to be part of whatever circle it is he is currently involved with. Do some research on the drug and talk to a doctor about withdrawal, that is if you really want to help. You can only do so much though, as eventually he has to go on his way. Oh yes - great advice, get him hooked on something else that is 'acceptable'..... Never mind that if he gets hooked on alchohol he is at just as much risk of damaging his health and psychological well being than he does if he continues to take yabaa! What is needed is to remove the persons belief that they need to take anything at all in order to have a good time or even simply deal with getting through life. It always amazes me that so many people think alcohol is such an 'acceptable' drug given the immense cost to our health services, the cost in human tragedy through alcohol related accidents as well as the break up of relationships - the list goes on... Good advice to get him out of the situation where he is associating with other drug users, but simply replacing one crutch with another does not work. Until this guy recognises he needs help himself and has dealt with his 'addictive personality' issues, showing him what a ' good time' he can have by getting him drunk will likely result in him being addicted to both yabaa and alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman01 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 One other option that has not been mentioned so far is one that had the desired effect at an upcountry school I was at a couple of years ago. A few of the M5 and M6 students (17-19 y.o) had been dabbling in yaba and teachers and others were wringing their hands wondering what to do about it. The District police chief, with whom I was very friendly and was willing to help and at my suggestion arranged for the affected students to get a maximum shock tour of a prison and prisoners in their cramped and filthy cells which instilled into the students a concentrated determination to give yaba up and, importantly, to have the mental strength to reject offers from their village friends. For these students this was a successful strategy but it may not work in every case, it depends on the situation. I only mention this story as a possible further option you may want to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Any advice...welcome... I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it. Oh yes - great advice, get him hooked on something else that is 'acceptable'..... Never mind that if he gets hooked on alchohol he is at just as much risk of damaging his health and psychological well being than he does if he continues to take yabaa! What is needed is to remove the persons belief that they need to take anything at all in order to have a good time or even simply deal with getting through life. It always amazes me that so many people think alcohol is such an 'acceptable' drug given the immense cost to our health services, the cost in human tragedy through alcohol related accidents as well as the break up of relationships - the list goes on... Good advice to get him out of the situation where he is associating with other drug users, but simply replacing one crutch with another does not work. Until this guy recognises he needs help himself and has dealt with his 'addictive personality' issues, showing him what a ' good time' he can have by getting him drunk will likely result in him being addicted to both yabaa and alcohol. ''Never mind that if he gets hooked on alchohol he is at just as much risk of damaging his health and psychological well being than he does if he continues to take yabaa!'' Are you trying to compare someone addicted to yabba daily to an alcoholic? The reality is those taking yabba are likely washing it down with whatever cheap moonshine they can get their hands on , so no I don't think having a few drinks is really a big deal. If it were me I would settle for being a hungover mess for a few days among 'good' friends, rather than being mashed out of my brain hearing voices and in the company of whores and other toothless addicts who hear voices of their own. I apologize that I recommended to get someone drunk as alcohol addiction is indeed a problem, full disclaimer was included and each to their own, but put a little context here. Alcohol is socially acceptable because you can have a drink with your family, your friends, your colleagues so you don't necessarily have to hide...........you are not limited to keeping in with the trash - drug dealers, prostitutes and loan sharks to name a few. They are certainly not your friends and even if you were sober and clean, just hanging out with the washed up crowd that abuse this stuff is dangerous to you life alone, let alone your health. ''...but simply replacing one crutch with another does not work. Until this guy recognises he needs help himself and has dealt with his 'addictive personality' issues, showing him what a ' good time' he can have by getting him drunk will likely result in him being addicted to both yabaa and alcohol.'' What you are saying about just replacing one crutch with another does work, most doctors prescribe NRT for smoking, methadone for heroin addicts and God knows how many other lethal 'prescribed' medications for any other illnesses. The idea that someone should confront their demons and go complete cold turkey requires a huge amount of determination, will power and mental strength, the failure rate is incredibly high and relapse is so common it is almost expected. I stand by my assertion that the void left by the drug cravings needs to be filled with something and if it is the lesser of two evils, so be it. Read Anthony Kiedis 'Scar Tissue' he found it with naturally occurring Adrenalin, on Koh Tao funny enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janner1 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Find a compassionate monastery make merit and take this person to it and let them do whatever they have to do to make this fool into a better and worthwhile person. If he runs away from there then accept you have done your very best for him and take peace of mind and solace from that, because you can do not more. I wish you good luck and every success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yabba is not physically addictive like opiates , he is a weak person who will always have addiction he must want to give it up on his own there is no cold turkey , You cannot help him if he still wants it I would agree, but given the quality of generic medications is so dire in LoS, I would be inclined to believe this crap is laced with an opiate to keep people using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can a monastery "keep" someone??? Did the monks know/understand why the girl had been brought there? Apparently, this monastery is set up to deal with drug addiction--unfortunately, the Thai family has moved to Australia and I have lost contact with them Do you recall what area/city that place was located in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can a monastery "keep" someone??? Did the monks know/understand why the girl had been brought there? Apparently, this monastery is set up to deal with drug addiction--unfortunately, the Thai family has moved to Australia and I have lost contact with them Do you recall what area/city that place was located in? No, I do not. Somewhere up North, Chiang Mai maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timendres Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Any advice...welcome... I'm certainly no expert on this subject... But I have the impression...that once people get hooked on yabaa.... they rarely WANT to help themselves off it. I think this depends a lot on the person, and how long they have been hooked. An ex once got going with Yaba and Ice. But after three weeks of falling down the rabbit hole, she finally took herself into a hospital and got off the drugs. And stayed off. Longer term abuse is going to be more difficult. And with no recognition that he has a problem, possibly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailand49 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Sorry for being negative... but it is going to get much worse.. like it was said... in drug rehab.. no matter where you are in the world. The person got to help himself first otherwise everything he or she is going through now is only temporary. What I suggest is some outside field trips to drug houses, take him to jail or prison and let him see his future.. because what it sounds like that is his future if he doesn't get help. Take him to a home for HIV victims etc... take the gloves off and let him see his future. All one can hope is something clicks before he hits rock bottom. Another the family might be the problem time to cut him off. All harder said than done.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterphil Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Get him in a headlock and take him to Thamkrabok Monastery in Saraburi. You will have to stay with him while goes through the detox cause the monks will only help those that want help. You need to force him to do it. Should take about 2 weeks and he'll be brand new afterwards. http://www.thamkrabok.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterphil Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can a monastery "keep" someone??? Did the monks know/understand why the girl had been brought there? Apparently, this monastery is set up to deal with drug addiction--unfortunately, the Thai family has moved to Australia and I have lost contact with them Do you recall what area/city that place was located in? No, I do not. Somewhere up North, Chiang Mai maybe. No its not. Its in Saraburi. Thamkrabok Monastery http://www.thamkrabok.net/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks for the mention and suggestion of Thamkrabok.... I'll look into it.... I did read on their website, part of the description of their detox process, as follows: TAKING THE MEDICINE AND VOMITING: Luangpor Yai, the holy woman who was the great teacher in Thamkrabok, has developed the rather disgusting, but very effective potion you will have to take at least 5 days early in the morning. There are more than 100 ingredients in it. Only two persons know the recipe: the abbot and the pharmacist. You will drink 2.5 – 3.5 cc and then half a bowl of water. Wait five minutes, then drink 3-4 bowls of water from the bucket. The water is mixed with herbal tea. Let it disperse inside your body for some time. Then put a finger into your throat and vomit. Take 3-4 'rounds', until the bucket is empty. The more water you drink the more easy you will vomit. Try to avoid irritations in your throat due to stressful vomiting. Vomit in the most relaxed way you can. If you have difficulties, just think of getting rid of all the mental and emotional 'junk' you might have stored inside yourself for such a long time… Dunno if that's a regimen that doctors would typically recommend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deserted Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks to all who have posted with comments above... I want to just say... for those talking about don't get involved or stay clear of this.... I'm not directly involved with this Thai young man... and it's not my place to be, and don't intend to be. But I know his family, and they're involved whether they like it or not... It's his parents and siblings, and they're wrestling with how best to deal with the situation. FWIW, this guy wasn't a bad kid... He'd lived with his Thai family for years, and never shown any problem until, in the last couple years, he ended up living alone because of a job change. He was working as a government school teacher, and had always been very responsible and professional -- until recent months. BTW, I have no indication he was dealing, just using, AFA the family can tell. The family isn't going to "walk away" from their son/sibling. But the question is, how do they best deal with him under the current circumstances. The only thing I don't understand is you said they spoke to the police and they weren't interested. Surely if they are informed he is using it they must do something like ask him where he's getting it from at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks to all who have posted with comments above... I want to just say... for those talking about don't get involved or stay clear of this.... I'm not directly involved with this Thai young man... and it's not my place to be, and don't intend to be. But I know his family, and they're involved whether they like it or not... It's his parents and siblings, and they're wrestling with how best to deal with the situation. FWIW, this guy wasn't a bad kid... He'd lived with his Thai family for years, and never shown any problem until, in the last couple years, he ended up living alone because of a job change. He was working as a government school teacher, and had always been very responsible and professional -- until recent months. BTW, I have no indication he was dealing, just using, AFA the family can tell. The family isn't going to "walk away" from their son/sibling. But the question is, how do they best deal with him under the current circumstances. The only thing I don't understand is you said they spoke to the police and they weren't interested. Surely if they are informed he is using it they must do something like ask him where he's getting it from at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozyjon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 '' Any advice or experience on this..'' I have a lot of experience on this subject, there's just no way to sugar coat this, you want to help,, start by helping yourself first, walk away, it's not your problem, it will end up a big mess / problem, i wonder if one day we see a photo of you with the cops pointing their fingers at you with the slogan ''HE DID IT'' Don't ruin your life over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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