Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[boomerangutang]

It's worth noting that the news from the previous hearings were largely dominated not by reports coming directly from the court, but the defense team own take on the proceedings. Unsurprisingly that led to a large degree of confusing and contradictory information and I fully expect the same thing to happen in the following days.

AleG; "a large degree of confusing and contradictory information"

boomer responds: ....like RTP saying they lost and used up DNA evidence? Then hours later, top cop Somyot announcing they didn't lose anything - conveniently not mentioning the missing hair and cig butt. So again, AleG, who is shoveling out 'confusing and contradictory info'?

AleG; " I fully expect the same thing to happen in the following days."

Boomer responds; Same here. We agree. Well, almost. I actually expect the RTP/prosecution's case to further dissolve - looking more like the Wicked Witch of the West's smoldering black tutu - before too long. Let the fireworks begin. You can't say they don't deserve it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by boomerangutang

[jimmybkk]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

I would suggest that this was the result of an extremely poor choice of getaway boat driver.

Beachfront Murders 101: When selecting a getaway boat driver it is wise to avoid the guy who brings his meth pipe to the interview and whose home address refers to a cave... e.g. "Cave No. 7, 23/14 Moo 5....." It is a well-known fact that tweakers spook easily and have a habit of forgetting things... like some rope... and a bunch of heavy cement blocks...

The guy probably took one look at the bloodbath of a crime scene and said the Thai equivalent of "What the <deleted>...! I never signed up for this sh*t... I'll take the skinny dude who's still alive but I ain't taking them other two. Why don't you try Uber..." and got the hell out of there, only to realize a short time later that he'd also forgotten to bring the map, and so had to ask for directions...

Now admittedly there is a labor shortage in Thailand at the moment, so maybe there weren't many options available to the perps, but I think it's safe to say they won't be making this mistake next time...

And maybe the skinny guy would have said: Look -- I've already killed two people and they can only hang you once so three is no problem. Put the bodies in the boat and let's head into the Gulf or else you will be the third.

That is a possibility Mr. Crabs.

Or... maybe the skinny guy noticed that the sun would be rising shortly and was not too keen on doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" tour of the bay whilst looking for a suitable place to dump the unweighted bodies. Maybe he was also reluctant to get the inside of the boat covered in the victims' blood and DNA. I could understand the logic behind such rationale, but in reality, who knows...?

I believe your original question was intended to support your view that the murders were not committed by a local, because surely a local would have done a better job of covering their tracks. In response, I would ask of you whether you truly believe that a tourist could have committed these murders, arranged a getaway from the crime scene and be capable of ensuring that the voices of anyone who happened to witness the events would not be made public?

If your answer is yes to the above question then sadly you have gone down in my estimation. If you were knowledgeable about the way things happen in this country you would know that if locals had witnessed (or had knowledge of) a foreigner's (or foreigners') involvement in these murders the locals would have been straight down to the local cop shop to claim their brownie points/share of the reward money.

There is no way on earth that no-one on that island knows anything about what really happened that night. So the question really should be who would have the power to enforce this deafening silence that has been emanating from the island since the murders occurred? Apparently your answer would be: "A tourist".

Uhmmm... OK...

Next please....

[Blackfox]

Have to agree with asking people to put there money where their mouth is. Seems most are unwilling to do this but have no issue with screaming these two are innocent and they spend hours upon hours working on theories for other social media detectives to compare.

As and FYI, Andy is not somebody's whose words I would trust regarding this case, I believe he has his own agenda and plays lose with the facts.

These are attorneys assigned by their embassy and receive funds from the embassy to cover costs as well as receive donations and assume receive a salary seeing how they are embassy attorneys. If I recall the embassy was also footing the bill for family and witness travel and stay.

http://www.mizzima.com/affairs-news-domestic/myanmar-team-calls-more-money-koh-tao-murder-suspects

The more confusion and speculation surrounding the case the more the defense team, MWRN and Andy Hall in particular benefit from the situation. I excluded the two men on trial because I expect the judges to rule based on actual facts, not speculation.

At least one person, speaking on behalf of Andy Hall and the MWRN, here in TV has unequivocally asked to continue the "hard speculation" when asking for donations, evidently the more sensationalism and outrage the better for them.

An article on the Samui Times, I believe, referred in part to this:

"It is also important that those involved in the case act responsibly, and are guarded in what they say to the press and refrain from sensationalism. Using the press as a way of garnering publicity for other cases or raising one’s own profile could be highly damaging to what is already a very sensitive case. It is vital that words are not put into the mouth of the accused not in a position to speak for themselves. Pointing fingers at other members of the community not standing trial is also deeply irresponsible."

It's worth noting that the news from the previous hearings were largely dominated not by reports coming directly from the court, but the defense team own take on the proceedings. Unsurprisingly that led to a large degree of confusing and contradictory information and I fully expect the same thing to happen in the following days.

I was particularly appaled by a tweet from Mr. Hall where he clearly tried to imply the father of David Miller cried when the retesting of some of the evidence was ruled out:

"BBC News - Thailand backpacker murders: Victim's father weeps at photos as forensics evidence re-test ruled out"

That was a very creative way of editing the actual article to give the impression that the father wept at the news of the retesting of some of the evidence being ruled out, not just at the moment the photos were shown. I don't think such editing is accidentally, it's a clear attempt at spinning things to elicit an emotional response and exactly the type of sensationalism the Samui Times article refers to.

I do not advocate sensationalism however, if one needs to voice an opinion without detriment to the case nor family, then he (they) have my full support.

Take note that the investigation and evidence gathering by the RTP is flawed.

This is irrefutable. There are too many anomalies in this case thus far.

I'm just hoping my contribution will go someway to assist bringing foreign heavyweight professionals to appear on behalf of the defence.

I honestly doubt true justice will be executed however if reasonable doubt affects a possible foregone conclusion with the help of the media then I'm all for it.

A fair and transparent trial is what EVERYONE is wishing for.

Yet honestly, I do have one motive, and that's to shame the RTP and judicial system if a miscarriage of justice occurs.

Foreign eyes are on this and the case continues tomorrow.

[Briggsy]

Boomerang

You asked why the police here generally don't employ sniffer dogs.

There was an article in the Bangkok Post on this issue several years ago. A Western nation financed a scheme for police sniffer dogs including provision of sniffer dogs and lengthy training for the police dog handlers.

When the scheme was set up, the Westerners left and the police dog handlers found it was easier to leave the dogs in the compound than take them out to do police work. Their gripe was that the travelling around with dogs was troublesome, the dogs needed taking care of after hours and got in the way. Within several months most of the dogs had died of neglect.

That is why you don't see police sniffer dogs here.

Keep on with the updates. Your contribution here is second to none.

[Lozza]

So you say the prosecution has about 62 witnesses to call. 62 witnesses ! Was there a grandstand set up next to the beach ? I actually do understand what you are trying to say, but please choose your words more carefully otherwise you'll lose the debate on just technicalities rather than facts.

I think people like police pathologists, crime scene experts etc might be included in the number could be wrong though

Yes, I am sure many are. So I have no idea what this guy is talking about a grandstand.

Last I saw reported by the Media was 65 Witnesses for the Prosecution and 20 for the Defense.

You would think if someone were to call you a liar that he would at least present something that says different. But this place has degraded so much with these guys that it doesn't matter what they think they know you get attacked for being different then them. They twist the truth and what has been said into the opposite. They attack the know evidence and you when it is presented but never present any evidence of there own.

They scream for free speech, but don't want anyone else to talk who does not agree with them. They scream for a fair trial and transparency but don't allow anyone else to present their case. They scream for justice but yet they are ready to Lynch several people who are not even on trial and drag there name into the dirt.

This has got to be the largest collection of Hypocrites I have ever had the displeasure of meeting here.

I hope they shut this site down until after the trial. At least then this site would be fair for all.

65 reluctant witnesses

[Lozza]

Today's coverage in the Norfolk local paper:

The trial of two men accused of killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge is this week expected to focus on the arrest and interrogation of the two Burmese suspects.

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Court timetable

July 22-24 – prosecution

August 18-21 – prosecution

August 27-28 – prosecution

September 1-2 – defence

September 22-24 – defence

September 25 – wrap-up statements.

October – verdict

Lawyers, and possibly the victims’ families, are expected to return to court in Koh Samui as the trial continues of the two suspects accused of killing Miss Witheridge, 23, of Hemsby, near Great Yarmouth, and fellow tourist David Miller, 24, of Jersey.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, also known as Win Zaw Htun, stand charged with murder and rape on the neighbouring Thai island of Koh Tao.

The Thai media is barely covering the case, apparently having been warned to stay away.

Miss Witheridge’s father and brother and Mr Miller’s family have sat through hours of painstaking and distressing testimony.

Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

More than 100 witnesses in total are expected to testify between now and the end of September.

For the defence team, who are all working for free, and include senior members of the Lawyers Council of Thailand, the priority has been to retest the DNA evidence taken from the scene. The defence believes the DNA evidence has been contaminated. However, it has only been partially successful in its demands.

Police Lieutenant-Colonel Somsak Nurod, the Chief of Police for Koh Tao and Koh Phangnan islands, caused consternation when he was quoted as saying crucial DNA evidence had been “lost”.

He later clarified that all DNA evidence gathered at the scene had been used up in testing. Later the defence team was told only single swabs had been taken from Miss Witheridge’s and Mr Miller’s bodies and they were no longer viable for testing.

However, permission was granted to test the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe. An employee at an adjacent resort claimed in court that he had found it, after discovering the bodies on the beach; washed it, and moved it to his vegetable patch.

He said police later gave him a rubber glove and told him to put it back where he had found it. The hoe was never properly forensically tested.

Other crucial evidence, revealed for the first time in court, included the police doctor’s finding that none of Miss Witheridge’s DNA was found on Mr Miller’s body, but a two-inch long blonde hair was found clutched in Miss Witheridge’s hand with the root still attached.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_thai_murder_trial_to_focus_on_migrants_arrest_1_4159352

I doubt very much the B2 knew there was a Hoe at the In-Touch resort. I'll bet they'd never been there so the chances of a Hoe being available in the dark points to inside involvement.

[JLCrab]

To answer the long-winded post above:

-- I still believe a tourist or tourists could have done it as long as the had the requisite DNA profile and left the island before the ferry exits were blocked.

-- I also believe that some from the other four 'Five Families' on Koh Tao could have done it and had no problem leaving the bodies on the door step of another Koh Tao family.

-- If you're sad, cheer up.

Edited July 21, 2015 by JLCrab

[Lozza]

I cannot completely eliminate the possibility that Sean was lying about staying in bed all night. However, he was known on the island. I find it quite unlikely that he could have wandered around, meeting David, and no one he knew saw him, and he avoided all the CCTV cameras.

The answer to your question as to why Sean ran from the island is pretty obvious. He had upset Mon, and fully believed that the Koh Tao mafia was capable of killing him. His claim that Mon wanted to frame him for the murders may also be genuine. This was well before the Burmese kids were chosen as scapegoats. Do you really think Sean's panicked phone calls and Facebook post from the 7-11 the night before he left was some kind of act? That is not to say he does not know who the real killers are. He quite likely does. I doubt he has evidence. Speculation: after escaping from Thailand, he may have been given money to keep quiet.

So why randomly pick Sean someone who knew David ? What are the Odds of picking a random westerner and that person being connected to the victim ?

In this article Mon explains why he went after sean

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

He had blood on his Guitar in the interview with the media (he could of put his own blood on it on purpose as a cover story its almost as if he is showing it off)

Firstly, I think we are in agreement that the choice of Sean was not random. Sean knew Mon quite well, and Mon was well aware that Sean was a "friend" of David's. One floated theory, when considering Sean as a scapegoat, was to present it as a crime of jealousy (i.e. a love triangle involving Sean, David and Hannah). This was laughable, considering Sean hardly knew Hannah, and wisely not pursued.

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

It was claimed A women who works in a spa helped him clean the blood not in spa. im not sure if this is the same women he claimed help get him of the island

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

Yes, red number 9 football shirt.

[thailandchilli]

[bunglebag]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

eh! where did I say the police can do what they like?

As for why he refused to hand it over and why the RTP didn't make him, well you'll have to ask Mon or the RTP about that

Edited July 21, 2015 by bunglebag

[JLCrab]

To answer the long-winded post above:

-- I still believe a tourist or tourists could have done it as long as the had the requisite DNA profile and left the island before the ferry exits were blocked.

-- I also believe that some from the other four 'Five Families' on Koh Tao could have done it and had no problem leaving the bodies on the door step of another Koh Tao family.

-- If you're sad, cheer up.

Are you now changing your tune........?

No. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804973-capital-punishment-concerns-raised-over-thai-backpackers-murder-case/page-27#entry9216377

[jimmybkk]

To answer the long-winded post above:

-- I still believe a tourist or tourists could have done it as long as the had the requisite DNA profile and left the island before the ferry exits were blocked.

-- I also believe that some from the other four 'Five Families' on Koh Tao could have done it and had no problem leaving the bodies on the door step of another Koh Tao family.

-- If you're sad, cheer up.

"as long as the had the requisite DNA profile..."

By that do you mean a vial containing the DNA of the 2 Burmese lads?

[Linky]

Wonder if it will be like the Phuketwan/Navy case. When prosecution has finished with its evidence just dont show up for the defence case.

[JLCrab]

To answer the long-winded post above:

-- I still believe a tourist or tourists could have done it as long as the had the requisite DNA profile and left the island before the ferry exits were blocked.

-- I also believe that some from the other four 'Five Families' on Koh Tao could have done it and had no problem leaving the bodies on the door step of another Koh Tao family.

-- If you're sad, cheer up.

"as long as the had the requisite DNA profile..."

By that do you mean a vial containing the DNA of the 2 Burmese lads?

No -- it means that they were Asian ethnicity.

[sambum]

As Thailandchilli indicated, the defence team including Andy Hall are working for free in this case (pro bono).

I've read near all posts in this thread and I haven't come across one that has made mention of a personal donation to help support this case.

I've just had communications with Andy Hall and made a donation.

As I understand he, as with the defence team, are engaging in this case with every effort and resource available.

The British FCO are wishing for a fair and transparent trial but are prevented from having direct input. Therefore, we have a chance to provide assistance.

Irrespective of your views in this case, it is possible to have a direct effect on fairness and transparency.

Impartiality is questionable as evidenced thus far. Financial support for the defence is required. Would it not be satisfying to know you may just help bring fairness to this case.

Give it some thought.

Have to agree with asking people to put there money where their mouth is. Seems most are unwilling to do this but have no issue with screaming these two are innocent and they spend hours upon hours working on theories for other social media detectives to compare.

As and FYI, Andy is not somebody's whose words I would trust regarding this case, I believe he has his own agenda and plays lose with the facts.

These are attorneys assigned by their embassy and receive funds from the embassy to cover costs as well as receive donations and assume receive a salary seeing how they are embassy attorneys. If I recall the embassy was also footing the bill for family and witness travel and stay.

http://www.mizzima.com/affairs-news-domestic/myanmar-team-calls-more-money-koh-tao-murder-suspects

As and FYI, Andy is not somebody's whose words I would trust regarding this case, I believe he has his own agenda and plays lose with the facts.

Unless you can say back up your statement, I would suggest that it's you that plays loose with the facts.

Maybe JTJ should donate some money to the RTP seeing as they lack the budget to bring a copy of the detailed crime scene photos with them to court.

Yes, the RTP do seem to be a bit stretched don't they? Right from the start,when they had to enlist local "volunteers" ( ) to help secure the crime scene, to not having the staff required to take enough DNA to test more than 1 sample ( ) to not having enough funds to keep detailed photos of the crime scene ( ) Actually, the whole "investigation" fiasco has been a farce from the very start, and how the likes of JTJ, JD, AleG et al can continue to defend the RTP and prosecution in this particular case especially is beyond me. To be honest, I am amazed that the judge(s) have not thrown the case out already - in most other countries it probably would have been, but hey, TIT, and the judge(s) are probably traditionally "taught" inclined to believe everything that the RTP and prosecution tell them.

Edited July 21, 2015 by sambum

[eliotness]

So you say the prosecution has about 62 witnesses to call. 62 witnesses ! Was there a grandstand set up next to the beach ? I actually do understand what you are trying to say, but please choose your words more carefully otherwise you'll lose the debate on just technicalities rather than facts.

I think people like police pathologists, crime scene experts etc might be included in the number could be wrong though

Yes, I am sure many are. So I have no idea what this guy is talking about a grandstand.

Last I saw reported by the Media was 65 Witnesses for the Prosecution and 20 for the Defense.

You would think if someone were to call you a liar that he would at least present something that says different. But this place has degraded so much with these guys that it doesn't matter what they think they know you get attacked for being different then them. They twist the truth and what has been said into the opposite. They attack the know evidence and you when it is presented but never present any evidence of there own.

They scream for free speech, but don't want anyone else to talk who does not agree with them. They scream for a fair trial and transparency but don't allow anyone else to present their case. They scream for justice but yet they are ready to Lynch several people who are not even on trial and drag there name into the dirt.

This has got to be the largest collection of Hypocrites I have ever had the displeasure of meeting here.

I hope they shut this site down until after the trial. At least then this site would be fair for all.

65 reluctant witnesses

MR GB what I meant was 65 "witnesses" seems a heck of a lot, especially as there were no actual witnesses to the crime. It would appear the prosecution is just filling up the courts time, smoke and mirrors !

[cdnvic]

It actually makes for interesting reading when people are not attacking each other. (Mostly )

Thanks for keeping it civil everyone.

[Rykbanlor]

65 Witnesses to what? Tish and pish. Lots of "expert" (endorsed) testimonies due up then.

[sambum]

" I know which way your bread is buttered. Hmm.. Sounds eerily similar to a quote another member loves to use... "Islandlife" has used that quote twice in response to people on these threads. Perhaps coincidence.

For the record, "knows which way his bread is buttered" must be some old English slang? Never herd that term in this tense before.

IIRC, Islandlife's English was of a (slightly) lower standard than our latest RTP defender so I don't think they are one and the same.

As to which way my bread is buttered, that's simple enough - the company that I work for pays me a monthly salary for the job that I do for them. What would be more interesting is whether Tony gets paid for / or has a vested interest in trying to deflect this thread.

Just for the record, may I suggest we don't use names like "latest RTP defenders". Because the opposite to that is the "Defenders of Rapists and Murders" and I don't think either is a civilized way to address each other. Do You?

The opposite of "RTP" defenders is "RTP attackers" and not the "Defenders of Rapists and Murders".

And I and others have mentioned to you that your excessive use of capitals is not accepted netiquette. (I notice you don't say "defenders of rapists and murders") Also, sorry to have to correct you again, but if you persist in not calling them "the accused" (as they have not been convicted of anything yet), the word is "murderers", not "murders" (or even "Murders")

[stephenterry]

Wonder if it will be like the Phuketwan/Navy case. When prosecution has finished with its evidence just dont show up for the defence case.

I hope it happens then all the world can see what a lot of pond life exists in this case.

[balo]

I've just come across nom sods Facebook fanclub page. Looks interesting but it's all in Thai. Is linking Facebook permited on T V? It would be good if someone could translate as I'm sure there is interesting info on it. It would seem that most of the comments are negative.

Why do you want to drag in more social media gossip ? It's already enough of it in this thread.

[JLCrab]

65 Witnesses to what? Tish and pish. Lots of "expert" (endorsed) testimonies due up then.

Or Pish-Tush from Gilbert & Sullivan's The Mikado (1884):

And I expect you'll all agree that he was right to so decree.

And I am right, and you are right, and all is right as right can be!

[Darkknight666]

I've just come across nom sods Facebook fanclub page. Looks interesting but it's all in Thai. Is linking Facebook permited on T V? It would be good if someone could translate as I'm sure there is interesting info on it. It would seem that most of the comments are negative.

Why do you want to drag in more social media gossip ? It's already enough of it in this thread.

I've been through both his and his brother pages and, not being a friend of theirs means I can only see what they make public. So not much, the other brother "Intouch" appears to have a much larger ego than "Nomsod", but that's my opinion.

But we want to get to the bottom of this case, whatever that takes. And it seems you, Balo, want this all to go away. What does looking into anyone who is a 'possible suspect' harm the person? Don't they want their name cleared?

[GOLDBUGGY]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

[Thesticle]

I've just come across nom sods Facebook fanclub page. Looks interesting but it's all in Thai. Is linking Facebook permited on T V? It would be good if someone could translate as I'm sure there is interesting info on it. It would seem that most of the comments are negative.

Why do you want to drag in more social media gossip ? It's already enough of it in this thread.

I was interested to see what they were saying and from what I can decipher its morphed into an anti NS fanclub page wich is quite interesting. I imagine it's a bit like here but from a Thai perspective . Also maybe there would be information gathered from the Thai press that we are not privy to. Maybe they're having a civilized debate?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Good Post John. As usual it make good logical sense, so probably why it will be attacked here.

I looked into the possibility of the conspiracy theory and having 2 scapegoats that many say took there place. But the one thing that stands out above the rest is "Why Bother?".

I mean that if there was even a shed of truth to this why bother to plant evidence, involving several people committing a criminal act to frame 2 poor migrant Workers? I mean a guy like Al Capone...maybe. But 2 Migrants Works who they could have accused the second day after the murders but it took 2 weeks to solve.

They could have swept this under the rug ages ago, if that is what they wanted. Say that they are sorry that they don't have a DNA Match so the culprits must have left the Island already. Case Closed! Just another Unsolved Murder Case which are many all over the world, and by now nobody would even be talking about it.

No! This does not make any logical sense to frame anyone here. It is far more Logical to bury this then frame 2 innocent men which many here have said they have done. Why I now will also get attacked to because it makes Good Logical Sense. ,

If you have a very valuable tourist industry to protect having rapists and muderers of tourists on the loose is not good for business.

Much better to blame non-thais.

Jesus-are we really back to week one?

So you think that the better and easier solution to frame 2 innocent migrant men, thus get several High Ranking Police Officials including all the Police on the scene, the Doctor who examined the accused, the entire Forensic Lab People who were running 30 DNA Tests at one time, the Special Investigative Team that came here from the UK, and close friends of the accused who made testimony for the Prosecution as witnesses, to all lie and perjury themselves facing mandatory jail sentences, then to simple make a false statement after 2 weeks after the murders? To simple say: "From the DNA collected we have found a DNA match of 3 migrant workers who have since fled the Island and Thailand" "We are trying to locate these culprits but it is believed they used false identification and there whereabouts is unknown"

Okay.

Jesus have the Thai police forensics now found a way to detect what work you do and your nationality through revolutionary new DNA testing??

Sorry your conclusion to the argument is seriously flawed

Yes I know it is flawed. Because I don't believe for a second that the Police would lie about this either, and thus why they haven't.

[bunglebag]

I've just come across nom sods Facebook fanclub page. Looks interesting but it's all in Thai. Is linking Facebook permited on T V? It would be good if someone could translate as I'm sure there is interesting info on it. It would seem that most of the comments are negative.

Why do you want to drag in more social media gossip ? It's already enough of it in this thread.

I've been through both his and his brother pages and, not being a friend of theirs means I can only see what they make public. So not much, the other brother "Intouch" appears to have a much larger ego than "Nomsod", but that's my opinion.

But we want to get to the bottom of this case, whatever that takes. And it seems you, Balo, want this all to go away. What does looking into anyone who is a 'possible suspect' harm the person? Don't they want their name cleared?

As far as I'm aware Intouch is his cousin (Mon's son) not his brother. Open to correction as usual though.

[GOLDBUGGY]

So you say the prosecution has about 62 witnesses to call. 62 witnesses ! Was there a grandstand set up next to the beach ? I actually do understand what you are trying to say, but please choose your words more carefully otherwise you'll lose the debate on just technicalities rather than facts.

I think people like police pathologists, crime scene experts etc might be included in the number could be wrong though

Yes, I am sure many are. So I have no idea what this guy is talking about a grandstand.

Last I saw reported by the Media was 65 Witnesses for the Prosecution and 20 for the Defense.

You would think if someone were to call you a liar that he would at least present something that says different. But this place has degraded so much with these guys that it doesn't matter what they think they know you get attacked for being different then them. They twist the truth and what has been said into the opposite. They attack the know evidence and you when it is presented but never present any evidence of there own.

They scream for free speech, but don't want anyone else to talk who does not agree with them. They scream for a fair trial and transparency but don't allow anyone else to present their case. They scream for justice but yet they are ready to Lynch several people who are not even on trial and drag there name into the dirt.

This has got to be the largest collection of Hypocrites I have ever had the displeasure of meeting here.

I hope they shut this site down until after the trial. At least then this site would be fair for all.

65 reluctant witnesses

MR GB what I meant was 65 "witnesses" seems a heck of a lot, especially as there were no actual witnesses to the crime. It would appear the prosecution is just filling up the courts time, smoke and mirrors !

I suppose I could say the same thing about the Defense having 20 Witnesses as well. Or as we have been told by the Media. If we all sat down together and tried to figure out who these 85 Witness are, we might get quite a few but I doubt we could name more than half If that many. We certainly don't know what they are going to say now either.

So all this tells me is that there is a lot of evidence and witnesses on both sides we do not know about yet as it hasn't been presented yet. So drawing a conclusion now seems a bit premature. So opinions are just opinions at this stage.

[StealthEnergiser]

[sambum]

bungelbag

"That would be the ac bar cctv footage that Mon refused to hand over to the police, saying it was 'private property' iirc? Convenient"

Oh really bungelbag. Do you mean like when he came in for questioning and had his DAN tested, or do you mean that in Thailand they don't have such things as search Warrants?

Oh! That is right! I just remembered! Aren't you the one that's says the Police here can do what they like? So what is stopping them?

You seem to be the most voluble poster in defence of the credibility of the police. I assume you have good reason to in your own mind.

I see you were asked whether you live here or have ever visited Thailand.

I think it would be wise to, and impolite not to answer the question(s), don't you?

Your answer(s) might add some credibility to your posts.

Yes! Sorry! You are right that it is impolite not to answer this question so here goes.

It is none of your damned business if I have been to Thailand or have lived here, as I am not on trail here.

There! Feel better now?

There's that "trail" word again! And how can you expect people to accept your position on your standing pro the police if you won't answer a simple question?