Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[IslandLover]

So you point is what?

Its funny how the original RTP fanatics have gone from having half decent arguments/cases, to spreading out right lies.

As said before repeat something often enough someone might believe it. When that someone is GB oh dear.

Why don't you go back and try to find these 2 Mobile Phones of David's that don't exist, or the evidence about this mobile phone thrown out of court, which never happened as it hasn't been presented yet. At least then you showed small signs of hope and some logic. .

Have to say I find it strange that the phone has not been presented as evidence already seeing as the investigating officer has already answered questions on it, maybe they forgot to put it in the trolley?

They better be quick though as the prosecution is now two thirds of the way through their presentation, they've only 3 more days left to reveal any further evidence and witnesses before the defense then gets to have its turn!

Given the general level of intelligence in the RTP, and their rush to get this embarrassment out of the way, I think they opted for the "10 items only" strategy with their supermarket trolley!

Did they have to pay 10 baht to take it away from Tesco's? Sainsbury's charges a quid.

[Harry H]

This has been discussed 100 times before but just for you again...........................

National NGO's are up in arms over this case, including reprieve and amnesty, why? They do not need to have evidence as they can see with their own eyes. They have called for independent investigations into various aspects of the case.

The UK police has already made a damning statement from the police that were here in Thailand, you can find that link in this thread.

The UK police IF they have given any info to Thai authorities then this would go against their normal procedures because of the possible death penalty. Hence the NGO's enquiring with them

Metropolitan police says there's confusion & inconsistencies in Koh Tao case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCMdSXPNCZA

Yeah! That is why they sent a Task Force here 10 months ago.

Task Force? How many were in this "Task Force"? what investigations did they conduct? What evidence did they gather for the prosecution?

I understand they were here as observers only, not to investigate or gather evidence for the prosecution, this has been well documented.

[smedly]

Thats right, its about 2 people who were brutally murdered , but on this forum it is also about to have a personal opinion about what happened that night , and attacking other posters personally just because they have a different view on this than you is not the correct way to do it .

So stay on topic even if you do not agree with "the other side" .

Most here believe Ko Tao headmans family to be involved...

You have a comment of that or just more deflection?

NS alibi has been shot to Shyyte more ways than one... What's you take in those lies?

"Other side" you mean, those who want justice no matter who is guilty? Yes, that's most people here. We don't feel safe with our kids on Ko Tao alone until the REAL monsters are caught. You keep deflecting... Guy.

This is not an Election where the most votes wins!

It is about evidence! If you and all your supporters do not have any evidence to link who you are constantly accusing, and his family, then you have nothing. Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!

and you do of course know why there is no viable verifiable evidence against those particular original suspects, because the police suddenly halted that line of enquiry and the man in charge was equally suddenly removed, if I was defence I'd be calling him as a witness

and remember there is still no verifiable evidence against either of the accused, in fact I have yet to see any evidence presented to court that remotely implicates them as suspects, playing a guitar on the beach which they often did doesn't cut it and police refusing to show cctv of them leaving on the motorbike and the time is in fact hiding critical evidence. Oh and the phone or phones, well all of that is rather vague and no fingerprints taken either it seems, not to mention the washed down hoe, the running man cctv which is 100% neither of the accused

you honestly wonder why everyone following this case (bar about 3 "humpy" people) thinks it's a fit up - for me (and I have experience of such matters) it is blindingly obvious and should also be to anyone with an intellect greater than a "camel"

and for those that have the pictures of the bouncer from AC bar, did he wear the shark tooth ring on his left or right hand, I seem to remember left

forgot to mention regarding the original suspects and investigation, once they became suspects and were arrested, their bodies should have been extensively examined by forensics experts especially under fingernails hands clothing and footwear along with their own dna taken - bagged and tagged, and since there was initial evidence pointing at AC bar and also being the last place the victims were seen - all employees including bar staff bouncers DJ's managers owners etc should all have been equally extensively examined bagged and tagged.

If that had taken place then I think we would now be seeing an entirely different scenario, B2 may still be in the dock (I wouldn't rule that out) but I think as many as 4 other people would also be facing the serious charges of multiple rape and double murder

[boomerangutang]

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

AleG, try as I might, I cannot trust what the RTP assert. Not by a long shot. Their credence level is through the floor. Many proven examples of them lying.

Your missive, above, is rife with double and triple negatives, so it's a bit hard to decipher. Keep trying to make a point, but I think you're banging your head against a wall.

GB states: "A wooden club was thought to be involved in this crime as well. I can understand why they my have thought this as to look at the head wounds on Hannah I originally thought it could have been a baseball bat. But if they can't tie evidence to the club then becomes speculation and it remains just a wooden club. The same with the hoe. If they did not find Hannah's Blood on it then it would just be a hoe and not a murder weapon."

Boomer responds: GB, please dont' waste our time with drivel (or is that your intention?). Most of us are trying to gauge what really happened that awful night. Going off on silly tangents (...about a wooden club that even the police aren't mentioning, or 'what if H's blood wasn't found on the hoe, etc etc etc ad nauseum' ) is wasting our time. I already skip most of your posts because they're off in la-la land - trying so hard to defend the indefensible RTP botched investigation. Should I skip them all entirely?

[Nigeone]

As long as the code of secrecy is in effect rendering witnesses too scared to come forward, Yes pretty much.

There are living humans today who know what happened... They just can't/won't talk. Which I find funny because what kind of threat would they be under from two Burmese lads?

Like, why is everyone so crap scared they can't speak? Burmese mafia on KT? Lmao.

We all know who runs the cops and crooks on KT.

Yes this fear is a key indicator that something is seriously wrong.

Yes I agree. Can the defenders of the RTP please answer this question if nothing else. Why would the whole Island be afraid to come forward to say who did it and why would the translators be leant on for two disposable Burmese. Also the Thai media be gagged and the reactment scene be met with silence from the crowds present !!. I have asked this question 3 times you guys and STILL you have not answered. I await and will not go away !

Well, the answer is quite simple. They don't know who did it anymore than you know for sure.

In fact they were all shocked when they first heard the news. Although the way some people talk, and I do not include you, one would think that on the night of the murders they set up bleachers and sold tickets.

It is an easy excuse to say they are all afraid to talk, but the reality of it all is they don't have anything meaningful to say that hasn't been said already. I would think they above anyone else want this case to be solved and go away and to get back all the tourist they may have lost and to a normal life.

A rational and sensible reply but which I'm going to challenge. Sky had a live interview with a Burmese worker in what looked like a market type set up and he freely on camera admitted everyone knew who did it and it was no secret but everybody was scared to talk about it. Of course then there was the disappearance of the Facebook entries from all around that date also tells a story. Also the second point is a fact too that translators shall I say were persuaded not to support the Media and thirdly if the locals were so bothered about tourism,and incidently I'm sure they are, based on the previous observations why wasn't a great deal of anger shown to the B2. We all know how excitable they can be and yet no animosity what's so ever towards them. Just silence. If ever a show of support to the scapegoats was so apparent this was this.

[saminoz]

Do you think any posters here are internet trolling for Koh Tao interests?

well we know one of them works for a dive shop with ties to the headman......

Who are you referring to?

Is it the one who Just wants Truth & Justice?

maybe one of the other sheep?

Edited August 3, 2015 by saminoz

[saminoz]

Moderators

Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:

Do you believe that

1. The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
2. The B2 were complicit but not alone?
3. The B2 are purely scapegoats?
4. The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)

It would be interesting to most of us to see exactly how polarised this group is.

I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.

The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.

regards

S

Edited August 3, 2015 by saminoz

[boomerangutang]

This is not an Election where the most votes wins!

It is about evidence! If you and all your supporters do not have any evidence to link who you are constantly accusing, and his family, then you have nothing. Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!

Evidence? ...like the hair which was lost, or the DNA which is 'all used up'? Or like NS's DNA which can't be found and was never compared to DNA found on Hannah? ...and even if RTP had NS's DNA typing, they certainly wouldn't share it with Brit forensics. That's what General 'The Liar' Somyot announced with a grin, right after NS's press event.

GB closes his eloquent statement with ".....then you have nothing. Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!"

Here's 'nothing, Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!':

Running Man videos. Not only the initial investigative team were certain it showed Nomsod, but also hundreds of thousands of keen observers believe the same. ...and there's going to be more proof of NS's involvement. Stay tuned.

[boomerangutang]

GOLDBUGGY asserts: "It is an easy excuse to say they are all afraid to talk, but the reality of it all is they don't have anything meaningful to say that hasn't been said already. I would think they above anyone else want this case to be solved and go away and to get back all the tourist they may have lost and to a normal life. "

Boomer responds: How can you say that local islanders '...don't have anything meaningful to say...'? That's denigrating to islanders. Also, at least some of them want to see justice done - at least as much as wanting to see life get back to normal (though, what's 'normal' on that island? a tourist death each month?). Don't belittle the islanders just because they're so afraid of the Headman and Mon, that they can't express their thoughts publicly - or offer any witness testimony.

[Harry H]

This is not an Election where the most votes wins!

It is about evidence! If you and all your supporters do not have any evidence to link who you are constantly accusing, and his family, then you have nothing. Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!

Evidence? ...like the hair which was lost, or the DNA which is 'all used up'? Or like NS's DNA which can't be found and was never compared to DNA found on Hannah? ...and even if RTP had NS's DNA typing, they certainly wouldn't share it with Brit forensics. That's what General 'The Liar' Somyot announced with a grin, right after NS's press event.

GB closes his eloquent statement with ".....then you have nothing. Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!"

Here's 'nothing, Zero! Dippity Do-da! Zilch! Nil! Zip! Nada! Nowt! Diddly Squat!':

Running Man videos. Not only the initial investigative team were certain it showed Nomsod, but also hundreds of thousands of keen observers believe the same. ...and there's going to be more proof of NS's involvement. Stay tuned.

Its going to be very interesting to see what the defence presents and how this is challenged by the prosecution, if they do challenge at all. I can't help but wonder what they have, and if it will just blow the whole trial apart, which would be interesting, more so to see the ramifications and how how high they will go.

[Nigeone]

Isn't it sad that this terrible crime has attracted nearly 6400 posts and the majority of posters are united in condemning the RTP's case. And the majority would still not discount that it is possible that the B2 could have been there but don't believe they were. This is a country that so wants to be up there with the big boys and be a credible and valid force in the area. The hub of ASEAN comes to mind. I'm sorry but although I love Thailand and in the main Thai people they as a country have zero chance of that admirable aim to ever reach fruition while there Police force and people in charge are driven by corruption and a real failure to address the issues. And incidentally, I don't give the rest of the organisations with power and authority any less responsibility for what we all have in the infrastructure and implementing of the laws. It really is so wrong that all these discussions are happening around the gruesome violent murders of two holiday makers and the RTP are so inept in dealing with it in a credible and honest way. The eyes of the world are on this case and I'm not sure if they realise the gravity of what's happening and I do believe from reading between the lines that it's going to get so much worse for them in days to come. Do they deserve it, yes 100% , Do Hannah and David's family deserve this charade of justice Thai style. No 100%.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Nigeone

[smedly]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

[Nigeone]

Moderators

Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:

Do you believe that

• The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
• The B2 were complicit but not alone?
• The B2 are purely scapegoats?
• The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)

It would be interesting to most of us to see exactly how polarised this group is.

I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.

The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.

regards

S

I would change number 2 . The B2 were possibly complicit but not alone.

And as for the results I think anyone involved in this thread could almost predict the results now so I'm not sure what good a survey would do but would be happy to give my answers

Edited August 3, 2015 by Nigeone

[GOLDBUGGY]

This has been discussed 100 times before but just for you again...........................

National NGO's are up in arms over this case, including reprieve and amnesty, why? They do not need to have evidence as they can see with their own eyes. They have called for independent investigations into various aspects of the case.

The UK police has already made a damning statement from the police that were here in Thailand, you can find that link in this thread.

The UK police IF they have given any info to Thai authorities then this would go against their normal procedures because of the possible death penalty. Hence the NGO's enquiring with them

Metropolitan police says there's confusion & inconsistencies in Koh Tao case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCMdSXPNCZA

Yeah! That is why they sent a Task Force here 10 months ago.

Task Force? How many were in this "Task Force"? what investigations did they conduct? What evidence did they gather for the prosecution?

You know as well as I do they were Observers. But all you are doing by asking these questions is skirting the issue.

You posted a Youtube link that was 10 months old! I responded they knew that and why they sent somebody from the UK to observe. The numbers, their weight, their skin colors, or experience, has nothing to do with what you posted.

A person can't always baffle his way out of Bull-shit, and though near everyone here tries to.

[smedly]

Do you think any posters here are internet trolling for Koh Tao interests?

well we know one of them works for a dive shop with ties to the headman......

Who are you referring to?

Is it the one who Just wants Truth & Justice?

maybe one of the other sheep?

might be a TVF member who has posted here on a certain forum before the murders

[GOLDBUGGY]

Moderators

Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:

Do you believe that

1. The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
2. The B2 were complicit but not alone?
3. The B2 are purely scapegoats?
4. The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)

It would be interesting to most of us to see exactly how polarised this group is.

I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.

The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.

regards

S

Moderator

Could you please ignore his request.

He should know by now he can conduct his own poll within the rues of TV by going to the appropriate spot on TV and starting his own Link.

If you do answer him, could you please also inform him that in a Court of Law it is not a Democracy. Whereas whoever gets the most votes dictates if they will be set free or not. I tried but........

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory, troll posts and replies removed.

[smedly]

Moderators

Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:

Do you believe that

• The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
• The B2 were complicit but not alone?
• The B2 are purely scapegoats?
• The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)

It would be interesting to most of us to see exactly how polarised this group is.

I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.

The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.

regards

S

I would change number 2 . The B2 were possibly complicit but not alone.

And as for the results I think anyone involved in this thread could almost predict the results now so I'm not sure what good a survey would do but would be happy to give my answers

combine 2 with 4

combine 3 with 4

and do away with 4

for me in that case I would be 50/50 2 and 3 as I am not willing to rule in/out B2 until I see confirmation of the evidence, simple as that but either way if involved at any level I don't believe they acted alone and/or were possibly only observers

another very good observation was made by someone on here about the pink flipflops discovered at the crime scene, Hannah was never seen wearing these in any cctv footage from earlier that night I believe, haven't looked myself

[thailandchilli]

Task Force? How many were in this "Task Force"? what investigations did they conduct? What evidence did they gather for the prosecution?

You know as well as I do they were Observers. But all you are doing by asking these questions is skirting the issue.

You posted a Youtube link that was 10 months old! I responded they knew that and why they sent somebody from the UK to observe. The numbers, their weight, their skin colors, or experience, has nothing to do with what you posted.

A person can't always baffle his way out of Bull-shit, and though near everyone here tries to.

Check the dates GB. The UK police all 3 of them who came to Thailand and did no investigations had an RTP translator and were shown only select peices of evidence arrived on the 25th Oct.

They returned to the UK on the 11th Nov

The families issued their first statements on the 6th Dec

UK police issued the statement below on the 26th Dec

[AleG]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

[StealthEnergiser]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

[Linky]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

Wrong again.

Police must also prove chain of custody. Sometimes defense will tell prosecution chain of custody is not an issue and such evidence shall be agreed to exist beforehand saving time and money.

But if defense has not agreed then prosecution must prove chain of custody. Without the chain of custody any witness giving evidence of the dna is worthless.

So yes the defendants can deny the results of the test as those results could have been dtermined on a completely erroneous set of facts.

[AleG]

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

Wrong again.

Police must also prove chain of custody. Sometimes defense will tell prosecution chain of custody is not an issue and such evidence shall be agreed to exist beforehand saving time and money.

But if defense has not agreed then prosecution must prove chain of custody. Without the chain of custody any witness giving evidence of the dna is worthless.

So yes the defendants can deny the results of the test as those results could have been dtermined on a completely erroneous set of facts.

Smedly said the prosecution did not present any evidence inculpating the men on trial, that is false. The evidence they presented may not be sufficient, it may be flawed, it may even be fake, but saying they haven't presented any is just not true.

[Nigeone]

While this statement from Smedly shouldn't need a explanation clearly it does. Smedly is quite correct in his observations from court. The prosecution made many claims and statements but that in itself doesn't amount in any shape or form to evidence. The same as our opinions on here don't either. Unless the claims by prosecution are backed up with proof and EVIDENCE !! To back these statements and claims up that's all there are. Without credibility or substance. I will repeat again what I have said several times. Up to today's date and time the RTP and prosecution have not provided any evidence to suggest the B2 were there at the scene that night never mind being involved. And as for the added comments about this so called evidence!! that they have presented that maybe be flawed fake etc sums up there case if even the likes of you are questioning its integrity and I would remind you that it's a crime to falsify information in a court environment. Notice I was careful not to say evidence and used the word information! and that's the relevant issue here.
And just in case you try to deflect my post the scene as mentioned is the crime scene. I accept the B2 were on the beach earlier that night.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Jai Dee
Quoted removed posts edited

[smedly]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

mine is an expert opinion unlike yours, you cannot simply provide a sheet of paper with writing on it, there is a lot more to it than that, something you don't seem to be able to grasp

[stephenterry]

IN RESPONSE TO AleG not linky.

While this statement from Smedly shouldn't need a explanation clearly it does. Smedly is quite correct in his observations from court. The prosecution made many claims and statements but that in itself doesn't amount in any shape or form to evidence. The same as our opinions on here don't either. Unless the claims by prosecution are backed up with proof and EVIDENCE !! To back these statements and claims up that's all there are. Without credibility or substance. I will repeat again what I have said several times. Up to today's date and time the RTP and prosecution have not provided any evidence to suggest the B2 were there at the scene that night never mind being involved. And as for the added comments about this so called evidence!! that they have presented that maybe be flawed fake etc sums up there case if even the likes of you are questioning its integrity and I would remind you that it's a crime to falsify information in a court environment. Notice I was careful not to say evidence and used the word information! and that's the relevant issue here.

And just in case you try to deflect my post the scene as mentioned is the crime scene. I accept the B2 were on the beach earlier that night.

The only issue is whether the judge admits this 'evidence' as fact. That is why the defence need to carry out independent DNA tests, and that is why (to date) the RTP have not handed these over, despite the court ruling.

It's a moot point whether so called DNA 'evidence' not backed up by the reports and a chain of custody that is robust would be accepted or rejected - that is unknown. Given previous practices in Thailand, what the RTP present to the court has favoured them, or else 'why bring the suspects to court?' mentality.

As with DNA, (without eye-witnesses or the like) any other 'evidence' presented is at best collateral - however a case could be made to justify that

the suspects were involved in the crimes. To date, though there has been little to support this. IMO, the prosecution are delaying their case to gain yet another lengthy postponement and rearrangement of the trial dates. This has happened before in such cases, with the trial dragging on for years.

To counter this, the defence need to 'breakthrough' earlier than later, albeit that is also a risk, if the prosecution request the court to permit more time to digest it. I fear it's not going to be a short 'open and shut' case.

Edited August 3, 2015 by stephenterry

[smedly]

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

Wrong again.

Police must also prove chain of custody. Sometimes defense will tell prosecution chain of custody is not an issue and such evidence shall be agreed to exist beforehand saving time and money.

But if defense has not agreed then prosecution must prove chain of custody. Without the chain of custody any witness giving evidence of the dna is worthless.

So yes the defendants can deny the results of the test as those results could have been dtermined on a completely erroneous set of facts.

Smedly said the prosecution did not present any evidence inculpating the men on trial, that is false. The evidence they presented may not be sufficient, it may be flawed, it may even be fake, but saying they haven't presented any is just not true.

read very carefully, that is not what I said, since those that tested the dna samples as you claim have actually no idea where or from who it came from, they cannot say it is a match for anyone, you may find this trivial but I can assure you it isn't, it might be a different matter if the person testing actually collected it, but we know that is not the case.

and not wanting to repeat myself again but any dna evidence submitted to trial for the prosecution must be independently verifiable by the defence and while we are at it, the largest sample of dna collected at this crime scene was likely from the victim so to claim it is/was exhausted is quite frankly ridiculous, the dna from the victim only needs to be tested once and recorded it is not like you can wear it out through multiple testing

now move along nothing more to discuss here

[Darkknight666]

The hair in Hannah's hand was said to be blonde... Being that they couldn't get any DNA from a clump of hair my guess is they knew it was planted evidence and didn't touch it for that reason. Now the hair is gone altogether. Very peculiar.

[balo]

Moderators

Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:

Do you believe that

• The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
• The B2 were complicit but not alone?
• The B2 are purely scapegoats?
• The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)

It would be interesting to most of us to see exactly how polarised this group is.

I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.

The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.

regards

S

My opinion

- B2 could be the murderers alone but most likely had complicits or witnesses who were with them and never did anything to prevent the killings.

- B2 could be complicit , but someone else did the murders

- B2 are purely scapegoats : No, I believe they were complicit or at least witnesses to the crime

- It could be other suspects are being protected , I would also like to add that Sean could be involved , in my opinion just as much as NS or anyone else who were on the island that night

I am open for all of these options , in a case like this you can never be 100% sure about anything. That's why I will never support one side alone without substantial evidence.

Again all of these theories has been discussed so many times on TV and we all know it will only end up as speculations until some real , solid facts are provided.

[fritzzz25]

First of all, I have not seen any testimony from any expert witness stating that there was a dna match between B2 and any of the victims, they did not collect the samples

Secondly, even if there was such a claim, how does this expert witness know where the dna samples came from, we have yet to see any documentation (chain of custody) for such evidence.

Thirdly, if there is such a claim - if the said samples are not available for verification by the defence then it is not admissible evidence unless the defence team were involved in the process and can verify it as above board properly recorded and authentic.

AleG, How many times do you have be to told this before it sinks in, the above has been repeated on this thread many times by myself and various other people qualified to know about such things, why do you keep ignoring something so obvious , do you honestly have some sort of mental condition were you just can't think things out for yourself in a rational manner and this is a genuine question not meant as an insult, if so then I understand where you are coming from and why you just don't get it

Having an expert witness testifying that their DNA matched the one found in the victim, for example, is not something that only points at them as persons of interests, that you don't see that is a matter of belief not of fact; you chose to belief than any evidence presented against them it's fake or irrelevant, you also chose to believe that others committed the crime and are still free in Koh Tao.

No, I don't have a mental condition? Any other inane question?

How do you think DNA evidence is presented in a court? They bring in a test tube labeled "DNA" and pass it around to be looked at? No, the people that have analyzed the DNA present the results of their analysis, you chose to not believe them; you can do that as much as you like, but you can't deny that the results of that analysis has been presented as evidence; you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

AleG, have you ever provided testimony in a criminal investigation? Have you ever investigated a criminal offence? If so, did it have DNA collection and analysis involved? Have you been to law school, and prosecuted criminal matters? These are serious and genuine questions - ones I would like an honest answer to. But of course, you will deflect in some way and throw out a "I know you are but what am I?" type answer.....